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Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




Tacoma, WA, USA

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
I don't play Eldar. I am most likely never gonna play Eldar. I am however working on a small scale IG army that's gonna be nearly entirely 3rd party. And my argument boils down to the good old "Piracy is a service problem"; if GW doesn't want people to buy 3rd party Eldar or Guard minis or print their own, they simply shouldn't literally offer one of the absolute shittiest ones in that category on the market.
"Piracy is a service problem"? Sounds like a nice jingle to justify "I don't want to pay that much, so I'll steal it".

As for GW encouraging alternative products because of the quality of their current offerings, that's the market at work. Those who product alternative products just need to be careful to not tread close enough to the Copyright line to get their offering taken down by Kickstarter. There are been many Kickstarter campaigns run for alternative products that could be used for GW games. They didn't look so much like the GW product that you would mistake them for GW.
   
Made in pl
Dakka Veteran




Germany

 alextroy wrote:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
I don't play Eldar. I am most likely never gonna play Eldar. I am however working on a small scale IG army that's gonna be nearly entirely 3rd party. And my argument boils down to the good old "Piracy is a service problem"; if GW doesn't want people to buy 3rd party Eldar or Guard minis or print their own, they simply shouldn't literally offer one of the absolute shittiest ones in that category on the market.
"Piracy is a service problem"? Sounds like a nice jingle to justify "I don't want to pay that much, so I'll steal it".

As for GW encouraging alternative products because of the quality of their current offerings, that's the market at work. Those who product alternative products just need to be careful to not tread close enough to the Copyright line to get their offering taken down by Kickstarter. There are been many Kickstarter campaigns run for alternative products that could be used for GW games. They didn't look so much like the GW product that you would mistake them for GW.


Except piracy isn't theft.
   
Made in us
Thinking of Joining a Davinite Loge





Philadelphia PA

Maybe the mods should lock the thread since it's no longer about the kickstarter and has become a schoolyard fight about whose opinion is right?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
No One Important wrote:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
No One Important wrote:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
No One Important wrote:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
If GW doesn't want people to rip-off their IP, they shouldn't give them such easy and blatant opportunities to do so by their own inaction.

And I guess people who get mugged are asking for it too by walking down the wrong street?

How is that remotely comparable? GW isn't even a person.

Because you're saying they're asking for it and this was the most tactful, if least impactful, comparison to be made to point out you're victim blaming.
Saying they were asking for it is not a valid defense anymore.


...because, a company that makes an extremely popular tabletop game, and then refuses to provide quality miniatures for said tabletop game, is obviously in no way encouraging third party companies to produce said miniatures to fill the glaring niche they left?

Why are you acting like a multi-million company is some poor, helpless victim of a heinous crime that needs our sympathies?

It's still an entity with legal rights. Why are you advocating violating those rights?


Because it's a multi-million company, that refuses to give quality product there's demand for to such an extent that there are several companies entirely dedicated to doing it for them. They couldn't be asking for it any harder without repeating the entire Chapterhouse situation.

Why are you defending a corporation that doesn't even register your existence, never will, and couldn't care less about your opinion?


There’s an entire range of Eldar miniatures available for purchase right now. Whether they are “quality product” or not is a subjective opinion, but IP law isn’t determined by your opinion of whether something is good or not. Your entire argument boils down to you thinking you should be able to have something because you want it.


I don't play Eldar. I am most likely never gonna play Eldar. I am however working on a small scale IG army that's gonna be nearly entirely 3rd party. And my argument boils down to the good old "Piracy is a service problem"; if GW doesn't want people to buy 3rd party Eldar or Guard minis or print their own, they simply shouldn't literally offer one of the absolute shittiest ones in that category on the market.


So the problem is that GW is not serving you properly for a range you dont have any interest in and are using competitors products at the same time? What reason would GW have to cater to customers like you? Why update Eldar when people are being encouraged to use competitors and pirates, while Space Marine kits are actually purchased? Piracy is not just a service problem, but an entitlement problem. "I want this product, but am not willing to offer market value for it, therefore whatever happens is fair if the result is that I get what I want."
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
 alextroy wrote:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
I don't play Eldar. I am most likely never gonna play Eldar. I am however working on a small scale IG army that's gonna be nearly entirely 3rd party. And my argument boils down to the good old "Piracy is a service problem"; if GW doesn't want people to buy 3rd party Eldar or Guard minis or print their own, they simply shouldn't literally offer one of the absolute shittiest ones in that category on the market.
"Piracy is a service problem"? Sounds like a nice jingle to justify "I don't want to pay that much, so I'll steal it".

As for GW encouraging alternative products because of the quality of their current offerings, that's the market at work. Those who product alternative products just need to be careful to not tread close enough to the Copyright line to get their offering taken down by Kickstarter. There are been many Kickstarter campaigns run for alternative products that could be used for GW games. They didn't look so much like the GW product that you would mistake them for GW.


Except piracy isn't theft.


Theft of Intellectual Property is the textbook definition of piracy as an alternate to the physical form involving the high seas.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/25 19:07:17


 
   
Made in us
Thinking of Joining a Davinite Loge





Philadelphia PA

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

So the problem is that GW is not serving you properly for a range you dont have any interest in and are using competitors products at the same time? What reason would GW have to cater to customers like you? Why update Eldar when people are being encouraged to use competitors and pirates, while Space Marine kits are actually purchased? Piracy is not just a service problem, but an entitlement problem. "I want this product, but am not willing to offer market value for it, therefore whatever happens is fair if the result is that I get what I want."


Ah yes the 'you should buy 25 year old garbage so that GW knows there's demand and they might make something you actually want' argument.

Saw it plenty during Blood of the Phoenix and still to this day consumers are not under any compulsion to buy products they don't want. If a line has low demand it's on GW to figure out why, not on the consumers.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/25 19:05:54


 
   
Made in gb
Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard







FBI seems to think it is

https://www.fbi.gov/investigate/white-collar-crime/piracy-ip-theft

In the uk, the CPS seems to define it as a criminal offence, and may consist of fraud, but I don’t see the word “theft” there explicitly.

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/intellectual-property-crime

Please excuse any spelling errors. I use a tablet frequently and software keyboards are a pain!

Terranwing - w3;d1;l1
51st Dunedinw2;d0;l0
Cadre Coronal Afterglow w1;d0;l0 
   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain





SoCal

Ketara, geometric shapes may be covered, what what about distinct clothing or costumes? Would it be legal to take Mandalorian armor, change a few small details but keep the cut of the armor pieces, then sell that design without the Mando helmet? It seems like you’re saying that would be legal...which sounds wrong to me, but I am not a legal scholar.

I see a distinction between “inspired by the same sources” designs, such as the Grognards, and “start with this IP and change just enough for legal” approach this KS appears to have taken.

   
Made in pl
Dakka Veteran




Germany

I find it funny how people are talking about how 3rd parties are terrible and evil and lazy thieves on the same forum with several threads dedicated to other companies doing 40k stand-ins, like Artel W or Wargames Atlantic.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/25 19:11:01


Games Workshop are not your friends. They are not a small dev trying their best. They are a multibillion dollar company making calculated decisions about how many costs they can cut, how lazy they can be about relases, and how much they can paywall. They will do it again. Stop giving them money for this. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






 ScarletRose wrote:
 MajorWesJanson wrote:

So the problem is that GW is not serving you properly for a range you dont have any interest in and are using competitors products at the same time? What reason would GW have to cater to customers like you? Why update Eldar when people are being encouraged to use competitors and pirates, while Space Marine kits are actually purchased? Piracy is not just a service problem, but an entitlement problem. "I want this product, but am not willing to offer market value for it, therefore whatever happens is fair if the result is that I get what I want."


Ah yes the 'you should buy 25 year old garbage so that GW knows there's demand and they might make something you actually want' argument.

Saw it plenty during Blood of the Phoenix and still to this day consumers are not under any compulsion to buy products they don't want. If a line has low demand it's on GW to figure out why, not on the consumers.


Im not trying to make that argument. Your second point is completely true, but the proper outcome is not "I dont like the official old models, so buy knockoffs instead and it's not fair that big bad GW doesn't want them to make knockoffs."
   
Made in us
Thinking of Joining a Davinite Loge





Philadelphia PA

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
 ScarletRose wrote:
 MajorWesJanson wrote:

So the problem is that GW is not serving you properly for a range you dont have any interest in and are using competitors products at the same time? What reason would GW have to cater to customers like you? Why update Eldar when people are being encouraged to use competitors and pirates, while Space Marine kits are actually purchased? Piracy is not just a service problem, but an entitlement problem. "I want this product, but am not willing to offer market value for it, therefore whatever happens is fair if the result is that I get what I want."


Ah yes the 'you should buy 25 year old garbage so that GW knows there's demand and they might make something you actually want' argument.

Saw it plenty during Blood of the Phoenix and still to this day consumers are not under any compulsion to buy products they don't want. If a line has low demand it's on GW to figure out why, not on the consumers.


Im not trying to make that argument. Your second point is completely true, but the proper outcome is not "I dont like the official old models, so buy knockoffs instead and it's not fair that big bad GW doesn't want them to make knockoffs."


If one entity in the market can't meet demand and another can it's only logical that consumers go to the one that can meet demand.

Duh.
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




It's really a stretch to consider it a theft, since nothing is actually missing. You're using an idea without someone's permission, but they still have that idea, it wasn't plucked out from their brains or hard drives.

Anyway, I'd argue that in most cases, piracy is a convenience issue, at least for digital goods. For a while digital distribution pretty much made it extinct, but as companies get greedy and fragment the games/streaming services into their own little proprietary shops, it's EASIER to pirate movies than it is to sign up to 5 different streaming services. In case of video games it can be even more absurd- a pirated game may very well run better than an official product which has always-online DRM included that can and has in the past tanked game performance. If you buy an original game, you are literally paying to have a worse experience than the pirate.

But for GW it's not convenience issue, it's a quality issue. People who go for 3rd party sculpts for their GW games don't do it to save money usually (the resin bits tend to cost as much as GW plastics if not more) but because they feel GW doesn't provide the quality to the price they demand. It's especially visible in Eldar, because their range is old enough that some items could have graduated college by now but GW raised their prices along with new products. I'm not arguing about legality of it (though in case of inspired-by products it's a lot more grey area than actual piracy) but the perception of the customers.
   
Made in pl
Dakka Veteran




Germany

Because i mean, logically speaking if this Kickstarter is lazy, and obviously just barely changing GW's IP to avoid Copyright and deserve to be destroyed, then Artel W, is equally as guilty, if not worse?
[Thumb - 2124377899.jpg]

[Thumb - 2022500430.jpg]

[Thumb - 1678208210.jpg]


Games Workshop are not your friends. They are not a small dev trying their best. They are a multibillion dollar company making calculated decisions about how many costs they can cut, how lazy they can be about relases, and how much they can paywall. They will do it again. Stop giving them money for this. 
   
Made in gb
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex







 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Ketara, geometric shapes may be covered, what what about distinct clothing or costumes? Would it be legal to take Mandalorian armor, change a few small details but keep the cut of the armor pieces, then sell that design without the Mando helmet? It seems like you’re saying that would be legal...which sounds wrong to me, but I am not a legal scholar.

I see a distinction between “inspired by the same sources” designs, such as the Grognards, and “start with this IP and change just enough for legal” approach this KS appears to have taken.


Is clothing distinct? To take your previous example, I'm not infringing Darth Vader by putting on a cape and breathing heavily, though it might make you think of him. Not even if I put a weird box on my chest and dress all in black. Darth Vader's copyright is created very specifically by the combination of all the different elements of the outfit which create a fixed expression of the idea behind him.

What this means is that the ground for dispute in court is over whether or not an artist has been sufficiently original to justify the creation of a new copyright. So to take your Mandalorian example, I can take Boba Fett's outfit and change the colour of his socks. But no court is going to take that as me expressing sufficient originality to create a fresh copyright. If, on the other hand, I completely change his helmet to one I designed, add two massive vents in his backpack, add some spurs to his boots, and another half a dozen obviously picked out changes like that? It's no longer Boba Fett and no longer infringes on the fixed expression of 'Boba Fett'. It's now my generic space warrior. Even if it still makes you think of Boba Fett due to cunning choices, I can point to sufficient design work of my own to justify a new copyright being created.

The goal of the afterparts market is to change just enough that it trips over that line into originality and warrants a fresh copyright; but to leave it familiar enough to be usable in 40K. Sometimes they don't quite make it, and frankly deserve the GW boot. Looking at the Aeterni specifically however, I'd say that they achieved that standard by a considerable degree. The fact that they changed as much as they did and still left you thinking of 'Eldar' is actually something of a testament to the skill of the designer. They've managed to combine public elements in such a fashion that they've successfully duplicated the aesthetic without really infringing on anything.

'Course, none of that means anything if you're not willing to take it to court.


 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Because i mean, logically speaking if this Kickstarter is lazy, and obviously just barely changing GW's IP to avoid Copyright and deserve to be destroyed, then Artel W, is equally as guilty, if not worse?


The first two are really blatant imo. The last, nope.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Because i mean, logically speaking if this Kickstarter is lazy, and obviously just barely changing GW's IP to avoid Copyright and deserve to be destroyed, then Artel W, is equally as guilty, if not worse?


Artel W did get hit by GW legal and came to terms a while back. Whether this kickstarter "deserves" to be taken down is an emotional judgment, separate from actual legalities. The fact that it was is unsurprising.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
If GW doesn't want people to rip-off their IP, they shouldn't give them such easy and blatant opportunities to do so by their own inaction.


Not a legal argument.
   
Made in pl
Dakka Veteran




Germany

Umbros wrote:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Because i mean, logically speaking if this Kickstarter is lazy, and obviously just barely changing GW's IP to avoid Copyright and deserve to be destroyed, then Artel W, is equally as guilty, if not worse?


The first two are really blatant imo. The last, nope.


I feel like you haven't seen the official one in a while
[Thumb - 99800112009_GrotesqueNEW_01.png]

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/25 19:35:35


Games Workshop are not your friends. They are not a small dev trying their best. They are a multibillion dollar company making calculated decisions about how many costs they can cut, how lazy they can be about relases, and how much they can paywall. They will do it again. Stop giving them money for this. 
   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain





SoCal

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
I find it funny how people are talking about how 3rd parties are terrible and evil and lazy thieves on the same forum with several threads dedicated to other companies doing 40k stand-ins, like Artel W or Wargames Atlantic.


Are you addressing me?

I’m not against third market minis made in a similar style to GW. I wanted to buy these. I’m just trying to figure out how to get my sweet, sweet not-Eldar without GW legal stomping in just as we’re on the verge of funding, preventing us from ever achieving pledge satisfaction.

And I also get a bit frustrated when companies come off as too arrogant and fired up to take legal protection seriously.

   
Made in us
Been Around the Block





I'm not a contemporary GW corp fan by any stretch, haven't bought anything since the end of 5th, I wish they'd update their aliens more often. I also frequently design models for counts-as or fan-interp of obscure lore that have neither models nor rules, or can be used for conversion fodder, but can be used in a separate games. I've worked with clients in the past who had passion towards other gaming universes, so they could ship products that capture the spirit of but don't directly copy the trademarked iconography, to avoid exactly this kind of situation.
It helps when there's real world precedent to draw direct inspiration from that the design teams also likely used. It's a matter of taking visual cues and double-checking against existing stuff; and these were so close to crossing that not-copying threshold.

That being said, at a glance I can make something matching the legs/body of these with the original guardian models and some greenstuff. Albeit smaller. You shave off the guardian leg wing-things, fill in the calf muscle armor so it wraps around the front and drop in a gemstone. Take a round file to concave the inner-thigh plate above the knee.
You lengthen and fill in and build up the abs with two plates...which can be obstructed by how they hold the guns, making the chest near-identical.
Belt and loincloth? greenstuff
The rifles have a different trigger and forward grip, but the barrels are basically thinner shuriken catapult meshes flipped upside down and ironsight reattached. Take a quick glance at the sprue where some arranged upside down, like even the muzzle shape.
Over the shoulder vent thingies...I know GW doesn't own the concept but why even have them in that exact spot if they're going for
original sculpts? Backs are different. Arms and shoulders are admitted better sculpts and proportioned than the guardians, there's visual similarities but that's about it, they're clear there.
Again If someone with greenstuff can convert most of these from existing models with minimal effort...they're probably too close to the existing IP. I don't like that GW hasn't updated eldar is so long, and I undersatnd people's frustration to that effect, but they have legit grievance here.

I like the shape of the gun platform, and how the hover bikes and them use the same technology chassis, that's visually unifying and practical resource management. I'm using a similar giraffe-crest for a wiseman fantasy model so I like that little detail on the leader.

I honestly wish the sculptors had applied the same effort they put into the more original bits to the rest of the bodies. Take them that extra degree GW can't go because you're using 3d printing and not beholden to injection-molded limitations. I hope they can salvage something, these are cool but they can be so much more.
   
Made in pl
Dakka Veteran




Germany

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
I find it funny how people are talking about how 3rd parties are terrible and evil and lazy thieves on the same forum with several threads dedicated to other companies doing 40k stand-ins, like Artel W or Wargames Atlantic.


Are you addressing me?

I’m not against third market minis made in a similar style to GW. I wanted to buy these. I’m just trying to figure out how to get my sweet, sweet not-Eldar without GW legal stomping in just as we’re on the verge of funding, preventing us from ever achieving pledge satisfaction.

And I also get a bit frustrated when companies come off as too arrogant and fired up to take legal protection seriously.


No, others. To quote.

Sunny Side Up wrote:
With sculptors as talented as these guys, why not create something unique themselves with a bit of background and perhaps a game to go with it?

Copyright law or not, living such a pathetic parasite life leeching of other companies shouldn't be an option for any creative in the industry with even the tiniest bit of self-respect, IMO.

Games Workshop are not your friends. They are not a small dev trying their best. They are a multibillion dollar company making calculated decisions about how many costs they can cut, how lazy they can be about relases, and how much they can paywall. They will do it again. Stop giving them money for this. 
   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain





SoCal

Ketara, I guess our difference of opinion is that I see these models as very similar to Eldar in exactly the ways that negate arguments of similar inspiration. Big details like the heads and back pack fins/vents are changed, but they feel like distinct bits on otherwise nearly-identical Eldar armor. The Artel Eldar pictured above don’t have the same cut to their armor, yet remain close enough to look like Eldar without feeling like someone scanned an Eldar model and glued some bits on it.

The look of the weapons, for example, remind me of minis sculpted onto an existing mini. I can’t remember the name, but there was a company that used (parts of) GW minis as the frame and sculpted some details over strategic places to try to hide that fact, and these weapons remind me of that.

   
Made in mx
Tunneling Trygon




Mexico

The models are close enough that IMHO the GW would be justified in taking them to court. Maybe they wouldn't win it, I'm not a lawyer, but it is definitely something that should be up to a court to decide.
   
Made in gb
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex







 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Ketara, I guess our difference of opinion is that I see these models as very similar to Eldar in exactly the ways that negate arguments of similar inspiration. Big details like the heads and back pack fins/vents are changed, but they feel like distinct bits on otherwise nearly-identical Eldar armor.


And there lies the beauty of it. If it went to court, the GW lawyer would have to stand up and say , 'M'Lud, it's a copy of our fixed expression of the idea behind an Eldar Warrior. Except for the helmet. And the vents. And the ab detailing. And the gun. And the shoulder pad shape.....yeah, no ignore all that. Is any of those details on our model? Well, no, but it still makes you think of our model. I mean, look at the gems. Oh hang on, geometric shapes don't....I'll see myself out'.

For every extra thing bolted on where you have to say 'except for that bit', the claim to originality grows stronger and the claim of infringement weaker. If the defence can then produce design sketches, drawings of different helmets considered, etc, it would be damn clear that sufficient thought and originality had gone into it to generate a new copyright. Remember that the bar is actually really quite low here.

The strongest defence of IP law in favour of big companies isn't that they have a particularly good claim in law. It's the deep pockets and legions of lawyers they have in-house. I might well be able to sell my Ketara-Vader outfit in a legal sense, but it won't stop the Mouse House dropping enough actions on my head to stun a giraffe. Let alone all the other less legal tricks big corporations play (private investigators, threats, etc). Artists typically aren't wealthy people and it's much easier to tweak a design then deal with a lawsuit. At the end of the day, when it comes to commercial IP realities, the law is less about who is in the right and more about who has the most cash in the bank.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/25 20:37:18



 
   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut





Oh, I see it's still going after 6 pages.

Just a couple of things to be aware of :

- Ketara is the one bringing that project on this forum. He knew what is was at the very beginning and is clearly not ashamed of it. Anything he tries to say are just mere justifications for him advocating anyone stealing someone else's IP is actually right to do so, because of his very liberal point of view of how the free market should work.

It's obvious he won't change his mind if you try to argue with him on that matter. He already decided he was the one who's right here. Even if the law says something else.


- Wha-Mu-077 is just hating completely GW's work. It's clear his point of view is "GW is utterly evil, so anything is good as long as it bothers/harms GW". Stealing is fine, piracy is fine, I wonder if beating people working for GW is also fine to him - if not worse.

Anything you try to say even it's logical or explainable won't work. Because that guy doesn't work on logic, it's pure emotions here. He's a true believer GW deserves all the bad in the world. And nothing you'll say will change his mind too.


It's better to stop wasting your time debating against the wind.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/04/25 20:58:27


 
   
Made in gb
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex







Sarouan wrote:

-It's obvious he won't change his mind if you try to argue with him on that matter. He already decided he was the one right here. Even if the law says something else here.

I take an interest in this branch of law for several reasons, so I'm really quite interested in your correction as a complete aside from anything to do with this.

Please let me know what legal intricacy/qualification I've passed over in my analysis?

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/04/25 21:00:50


 
   
Made in pl
Dakka Veteran




Germany

Stealing, aka physically breaking into a GW shop and physically taking their boxes of plastic and beating up their employees while pointing a gun on them is NOT fine.

Downloading PDFs of their stuff, making obvious 3rd party stand-ins, is completely fair game in my personal opinion however, because it's not an actual physical thing, just a copy.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/25 20:58:25


Games Workshop are not your friends. They are not a small dev trying their best. They are a multibillion dollar company making calculated decisions about how many costs they can cut, how lazy they can be about relases, and how much they can paywall. They will do it again. Stop giving them money for this. 
   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Ketara wrote:
Sarouan wrote:

-It's obvious he won't change his mind if you try to argue with him on that matter. He already decided he was the one right here. Even if the law says something else here.

I take an interest in this branch of law for several reasons, so I'm really quite interested in your correction as a complete aside from anything to do with this. Please let me know what legal intricacy/qualification I've passed over in my analysis?


You already decided your point of view is the right one, which is why you put this project on this forum first. And you still defend your position now that GW has gone to defend their own rights.

You're not a lawyer here. You're just trying to prove you were in the right to show support of this project.
   
Made in gb
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex







Sarouan wrote:
 Ketara wrote:
Sarouan wrote:

-It's obvious he won't change his mind if you try to argue with him on that matter. He already decided he was the one right here. Even if the law says something else here.

I take an interest in this branch of law for several reasons, so I'm really quite interested in your correction as a complete aside from anything to do with this. Please let me know what legal intricacy/qualification I've passed over in my analysis?


You already decided your point of view is the right one, which is why you put this project on this forum first. And you still defend your position now that GW has gone to defend their own rights.

You're not a lawyer here. You're just trying to prove you were in the right to show support of this project.


Completely ignoring your vaguely tiresome/boring ad hominems, you asserted that 'the law says something else'. So...what is it? Do you actually have something of legal interest to point out, or are you just blowing smoke?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/25 21:02:26


 
   
Made in be
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Ketara wrote:


Completely ignoring your vaguely tiresome/boring ad hominems, you asserted that 'the law says something else'. So...what is it? Do you actually have something of legal interest to point out, or are you just blowing smoke?


Like I said, it's totally pointless trying to debate anything with you. You're not a lawyer, what you say are just what you wish to see in the law based on how you see the world from a political perspective.

Even if you were showed true proof, you'll still move the goalpost or use a smokescreen to make it look like it doesn't matter and you're still the one who's right.

You're the one blowing smoke from the very beginning, starting to advertise this project. You knew what is was and you're not ashamed of it. That's all there is to need to know.
   
Made in gb
[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex







Sarouan wrote:

Even if you were showed true proof, you'll still move the goalpost or use a smokescreen to make it look like it doesn't matter and you're still the one who's right.

Mate, this is getting boring. For what it's worth, this is one Kickstarter of about six I've backed in the last two months and I couldn't give a toss if it never comes to market. I don't even play Eldar, I was just going to shove it all in my huge .stl library (99% of which will never see light of day ).

Now, please stump up this legal 'true proof' you're referring to. That's of infinite more interest to me on every level than anything else in this entire thread.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/04/25 21:10:57


 
   
Made in pl
Dakka Veteran




Germany

Sarouan wrote:
 Ketara wrote:


Completely ignoring your vaguely tiresome/boring ad hominems, you asserted that 'the law says something else'. So...what is it? Do you actually have something of legal interest to point out, or are you just blowing smoke?


Like I said, it's totally pointless trying to debate anything with you. You're not a lawyer, what you say are just what you wish to see in the law based on how you see the world from a political perspective.

Even if you were showed true proof, you'll still move the goalpost or use a smokescreen to make it look like it doesn't matter and you're still the one who's right.

You're the one blowing smoke from the very beginning, starting to advertise this project. You knew what is was and you're not ashamed of it. That's all there is to need to know.


At this point I'm starting to suspect you were the one to report this Kickstarter to GW
   
 
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