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Would you play with a known scalper?
Yes, I'd play games with them. Behavior outside the gaming room doesn't factor into it.
No, I would refuse. Scalpers should not feel welcome in the gaming community.
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Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

Don't forget putting a mini for sale on ebay as being comparable to a "semi-theft".

What a thread.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





Jacksmiles wrote:


"Maybe you'll have me go into more details about the Very Nasty Things I apparently wish to happen to people?" This type of question is always dumb. Imagine accusing someone of putting words in your mouth by putting words in their mouth. You say I put words in your mouth but ignore that I was very obviously referring in this part to another poster's comments about cats gaking in shoes or some such thing. My statement was "It's very clear some people in here believe it to be the deepest depth of immorality, explicitly stated in some cases you deserve daily Very Nasty Things to happen to you for daring to do such a thing." We want to get pedantic? I never said you were the one that said that.

Well, sorry for thinking your non-sequitur had anything to do with the conversation at hand. I asked why you felt I was "really stretching to make someone doing this once or once in a while into a Very Bad Person", and you replied with that. If you're talking exclusively about other people, and not me, and not answering the question, I'm not sure where it comes into the conversation at all. It was not obvious to me, and I hadn't seen the poster's comments about cats or whatever. Apologies for misinterpreting it.

"Perhaps I should just refer to the "abusee" as a victim?" Perhaps you shouldn't see these people as victims when they are not being coerced or forced into anything. Or even actually abused.

I don't know what else to see them as. You're right, they could just not buy the models. But... if they want the models... they're forced to buy from scalpers... so...
   
Made in us
Automated Rubric Marine of Tzeentch




Rihgu wrote:
Jacksmiles wrote:


"Maybe you'll have me go into more details about the Very Nasty Things I apparently wish to happen to people?" This type of question is always dumb. Imagine accusing someone of putting words in your mouth by putting words in their mouth. You say I put words in your mouth but ignore that I was very obviously referring in this part to another poster's comments about cats gaking in shoes or some such thing. My statement was "It's very clear some people in here believe it to be the deepest depth of immorality, explicitly stated in some cases you deserve daily Very Nasty Things to happen to you for daring to do such a thing." We want to get pedantic? I never said you were the one that said that.

Well, sorry for thinking your non-sequitur had anything to do with the conversation at hand. I asked why you felt I was "really stretching to make someone doing this once or once in a while into a Very Bad Person", and you replied with that. If you're talking exclusively about other people, and not me, and not answering the question, I'm not sure where it comes into the conversation at all. It was not obvious to me, and I hadn't seen the poster's comments about cats or whatever. Apologies for misinterpreting it.


Apology accepted, that was coming off my "reading the thread makes it clear" comment. Apologies for not being more clear that it was calling it abuse that makes me believe you specifically are stretching real hard. However, I did kind of use it also as the royal "you" for people arguing similarly to your side, because I believe them to be stretching as well. It was kind of an overall answer so it wasn't exclusively about others. My bad for being unclear. Hopefully now you understand how it comes into the conversation, because the whole thread is the conversation, not just our replies to each other.

"Perhaps I should just refer to the "abusee" as a victim?" Perhaps you shouldn't see these people as victims when they are not being coerced or forced into anything. Or even actually abused.

I don't know what else to see them as. You're right, they could just not buy the models. But... if they want the models... they're forced to buy from scalpers... so...


So..it's abuse? I will respectfully just disagree on this point again. If they want the models, they're making a choice. Just because you can word it as "they're forced to buy from scalpers" doesn't actually mean they're actually being forced into anything.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/24 16:20:09


 
   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain





SoCal

If you don’t have a problem with scalpers, how about recasters and their customers?

I tend to view GW as the primary culprit here, so I tend to sympathize more with people who buy recasts. I’d be more likely to befriend a gamer openly using recasts than a gamer openly scalping*. I find the recasting market to be a more …healthy? reaction to GW pricing and forced scarcity than preying on fellow gamers—the financial damage is more directly on GW rather than their customers.



*And I mean the type of scalper who buys multiple copies to create additional scarcity and control the second hand market prices, not necessarily someone who flips one or two items because of a rare opportunity.

On a sort-of related note, Locally, there are often Bring ‘n’ Buy trades, and the attendees tend to split into two groups: people who are trying to move old stuff out and people trying to make a lot of money. As someone who was willing to sell at lower prices to send unwanted minis to a good home, I tended to gravitate towards likeminded gamers. The people who wanted to sell the same items for high prices tended not to appreciate that, and were generally not as easy to get along with. Without even getting into scalping, there was already enough difference in mindset to create uncomfortable tension. That mild discomfort alone would make me not want to talk with someone or spend time with them.


 Ouze wrote:
I don't need a defense because I didn't do anything wrong.

I wish I lived where you guys did, where apparently there are so many people lined up to play games with you, that you need to invent increasingly arbitrary and nebulous reasons to winnow that crowd down.


It is pretty sweet.

   
Made in us
Calm Celestian




Windsor Ontario Canada

Let's talk about the negative impact Scalpers have on Games Workshop and other businesses.

Why don't we start and look at a very extreme example, the Play Station 5 and how it affects, say, Sony and developers. At first, you may think that it doesn't have any negative impact on Sony. Sony makes a Play Station 5, and scalpers buy it. End of story, right? Wrong. Let's take a look at a person who might buy a PS5 off a scalper. We will call this person Bobby. Bobby buys a PS5 off a scalper but has paid so much money that he is unwilling to spend too much more due to him having a budget. As a result, he might not buy that 2nd controller or that expensive headset. Now not everyone is going to be like Bobby. Some will still shell out the extra money, but there will be many people like Bobby, which means lost sales for Sony.

In addition, let's take a look at developers who released their games on, say, Day 1. Do you think these scalpers who bought 1000 PS5 will buy games released on day 1? Of course not. Here is where I want to bring in someone else. Let’s call him Jimmy. Jimmy is the type of person who says, "F U scalpers, I am going to wait." Jimmy waits for several months (or even a year) before he finally gets his PS5. Games released on Day 1 don't interest him, as newer games are now out. This means the developers have now lost money due to the actions of scalpers.

Now some of you might be going at this point, "Well, that is Sony/Playstation, that is different from Games Workshop and doesn't apply here!" I would say it kind of depends. I mean, let's retake a look at Bobby. Let’s say he wants to buy a model that he needs for his army. He now spends, says, an extra 40 dollars on it. That is another 40 dollars he could have spent on other GW products. If Bobby had that extra 40 dollars, he might have spent, say, an additional 20 on other GW products. That means the scalpers cost GW 20 dollars. Let's now go back to Jimmy, who is waiting. Jimmy gets distracted and finds another hobby, be it another tabletop game, a card game, a video game, or another hobby. Well, now, GW has just lost a customer.

Scalpers are a poison. They are bad for the Customer (making them pay more money), they are bad for Games Workshop (cutting into GW profits), and they are bad for the community (reducing the number of people in the community). Let's compare a Scalper to a 3rd party retailer or someone who 3d prints a model and sells it. Well, yes, they are cutting into GW profit, so bad for GW. But they are probably selling it for cheaper, so that is good for the customer. They can also make models unique or even provide an alternative for people to join in the hobby, so good for the community. There are pros and cons with 3rd printers and 3rd party sellers, but with scalpers, only cons.

If you wish to play with a known Scalper, go right ahead, that is your choice. The best solution to Scalpers, though, is simply not to buy from them. But do understand where I come from when I don't want to play versus them, due to the fact that I and others have left some games/hobbies because of them and I see how bad they are for these games.
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

 Necrosis wrote:
Now some of you might be going at this point, "Well, that is Sony/Playstation, that is different from Games Workshop and doesn't apply here!" I would say it kind of depends. I mean, let's retake a look at Bobby. Let’s say he wants to buy a model that he needs for his army. He now spends, says, an extra 40 dollars on it. That is another 40 dollars he could have spent on other GW products. If Bobby had that extra 40 dollars, he might have spent, say, an additional 20 on other GW products. That means the scalpers cost GW 20 dollars. Let's now go back to Jimmy, who is waiting. Jimmy gets distracted and finds another hobby, be it another tabletop game, a card game, a video game, or another hobby. Well, now, GW has just lost a customer.


Waving aside the idea anyone needs a plastic army doll - why did Games Workshop make so few of the thing that Jimmy "needed"?

In the example of the PS5, there is a chip shortage, so it's actual scarcity. Sony would very, very much like for everyone who wanted a PS5 to be able to buy one off the shelf at a walmart for MSRP.

In Games Workshops case with the limited edition stuff, it's wholly artificial scarcity. It's apples and oranges.

Totally unclear why Games Workshop is wholly absolved of the "injury" (they inflicted on themselves): they have the molds, they did the R&D, they know they could sell thousands of a nice mini, it would be profitable for them to do so since it only costs them a few cents per shot once said R&D and moldmaking is done, and yet they chose to create artificial scarcity instead. Totally blameless, for some reason.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/24 19:00:50


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in us
Calm Celestian




Windsor Ontario Canada

 Ouze wrote:
Waving aside the idea anyone needs a plastic army doll - why did Games Workshop make so few of the thing that Jimmy "needed"?

In the example of the PS5, there is a chip shortage, so it's actual scarcity. Sony would very, very much like for everyone who wanted a PS5 to be able to buy one off the shelf at a walmart for MSRP.

In Games Workshops case with the limited edition stuff, it's wholly artificial scarcity. It's apples and oranges.

Totally unclear why Games Workshop is wholly absolved of the "injury" (they inflicted on themselves): they have the molds, they did the R&D, they know they could sell thousands of a nice mini, it would be profitable for them to do so since it only costs them a few cents per shot once said R&D and moldmaking is done, and yet they chose to create artificial scarcity instead. Totally blameless, for some reason.


Why did they make so little you ask, well why are they behind schedule, why are they suddenly cancelling products because they are having their own shortage. Running a miniature company requires a lot of things to work right, you need to have your factories and you need to have their supplies to make not only the miniatures but everything that comes with them, including packaging, plastic, cardboard and etc. You also need to deal with logistics, sending your product overseas. If one thing goes wrong, if one thing is in short supplies, guess what, you now have a shortage. I work in the car manufacturing industry, laid off because we can't get a certain type of chip. GW is probably having a similar issue.

Your argument is basically because GW punched themselves (which they may have not), its now okay for scalpers to punch both GW and Bobby. If someone injured themselves, it's okay for other people to now to start to injury them as well.

I don't know about you, but I want to see this hobby grow even more and have more people join in. As I pointed out in my previous post, Scalpers are a gatekeeper, they may not be the only gatekeeper but they are one.
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

 Necrosis wrote:
If one thing goes wrong, if one thing is in short supplies, guess what, you now have a shortage. I work in the car manufacturing industry, laid off because we can't get a certain type of chip. GW is probably having a similar issue.


You think Games Workshop ran short of plastic maybe?

You are going through all these weird arguments when Games Workshop announced these would be a limited edition item, a FOMO sale (they got dragged at the time, if I recall). This was their stated plan - to only make a few of them - and advertised it by saying you are gonna miss out if you don't order one fast! And now that there are too few, look at the unspeakable mental contortions you are pulling to try to make sure the sole party responsible for the product shortage isn't held responsible for the (planned, by them) scarcity.

Why are you doing that? What do you get out of it?


Remember, it doesn't have to be this way. When Indominatus sold out and people were upset, they changed course and... decided to make more. That was always an option!

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/06/24 20:51:36


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in gb
Twisted Trueborn with Blaster




"Crime" is a little excessive here.

It isn't a crime to only make a run of 1,000, or 10,000, or whatever.

It isn't a crime to buy up whatever new stock you can, and sell it on at a profit.

It isn't a crime to pay over the odds for something in short supply.

It may be daft, or greedy, or selfish....
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

I remain impossibly amused and bemused that this thread has made it to 6 pages. /

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in jp
Perfect Shot Black Templar Predator Pilot





Ishikawa Prefecture, Japan

Rihgu wrote:
Perhaps I should just refer to the "abusee" as a victim?


Dude, what the actual feth are you talking about ahahahaha, the logical backflips you're pulling off to try and paint scalpers as the absolute worst is NUTTY.

No-one here likes how prevalent scalping has become, and the markups they're able to pull on what really works out as an inconvenience. But the buyers are 100% not even close to victims. Buyers are the ones facilitating these crazy prices, buyers are encouraging scalpers to swipe up as much stock as possible, buyers are the ones making scalping so lucrative in this one specific fandom. GW certainly don't help anyone with their latest FOMO nonsense, but trying to paint people who actively go out, buy limited run luxury goods for marked up prices are not victims, they aren't abused, they're whales who really want a little plastic space man with a certain head, or plasma pistol, and they're too lazy, or completionist, or deep into the "GW is the best" cool-aid to try and make their own.

Scalpers aren't cool, but like, they aren't horrible boogiemen, they're just people looking to make money off of the self-imposed limits GW have in terms of production runs. It's annoying, as a hobbyist, certainly, but calling them abusers??? Holy fething gak. Getting past scalpers is easy dude, just don't buy what they're selling. Miss out on something you wanted? Man, it sucks, but whoop-de-doo, life goes on, get over it, keep your eyes peeled, maybe 5 years down the line you'll get a chance to pick it up for an okay price.

Say it with me everyone - "scalpers are only allowed to exist because the community facilitates their continued existence."

Ongoing P&M shennanigans!
Warband of the Pilgrim Saint - Marines and SoB, My first ever project! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/664123.page
Assorted Inquisition stuff! I get wierd with conversions sometimes! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/743187.page
The Carpathian Tin Ghosts - Skitarii Rangers who don't want redemption - only to kill xenos. https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/748211.page
Vaguely Coleridgian Eldar Friends https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/749595.page#9830499
Care for a snifter of mine-tonic, comrade? Genestealers await the coming of the Black Emperor https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/757105.page
The Moorendar 3rd and the Proselytes of the Drain Fly - Nurgle 40k https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/770536.page
Haven't bought from GW since December 2019 - resist price hikes and unfair pricing outside of the UK  
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





Dude, what the actual feth are you talking about ahahahaha, the logical backflips you're pulling off to try and paint scalpers as the absolute worst is NUTTY.

That's not something I'm doing, actually.

I like how I say "abuser" and everybody instantly jumps to like, black eyed wives or something, when I even use verbal abuse as my example anyways.
Yelling at somebody is abuse. Swearing at somebody is abuse. There are tiers of abuse.
People who perform abuse are not "the absolute worst".
   
Made in jp
Perfect Shot Black Templar Predator Pilot





Ishikawa Prefecture, Japan

Abuse means abuse. Someone flipping a luxury item that is no longer readily available for more than it's worth is not abuse. Choosing to buy something is not being abused.

I absolutely agree, verbal abuse is abuse, but that is going out of your way and inflicting something on someone who is innocent. Being on ebay, and bidding on a limited edition cadian makes you an active participant in the process, whether you are being scalped or not. They are not victims, and the only thing the scalpers are doing is being good at sounding out just what whales will pay for silly little plastic space men.

BTW, shoutout to the way you dodged engaging meaningfully like, my entire post? to project about me accusing you of talking about violent abuse when all I said was that you likening being scalped to abuse is ridiculous (because it is. Maybe reflect on why so many users have called this out?) real peak "I can't be wrong on the internet" behavior there, champ. Great job!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/25 01:51:20


Ongoing P&M shennanigans!
Warband of the Pilgrim Saint - Marines and SoB, My first ever project! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/664123.page
Assorted Inquisition stuff! I get wierd with conversions sometimes! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/743187.page
The Carpathian Tin Ghosts - Skitarii Rangers who don't want redemption - only to kill xenos. https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/748211.page
Vaguely Coleridgian Eldar Friends https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/749595.page#9830499
Care for a snifter of mine-tonic, comrade? Genestealers await the coming of the Black Emperor https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/757105.page
The Moorendar 3rd and the Proselytes of the Drain Fly - Nurgle 40k https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/770536.page
Haven't bought from GW since December 2019 - resist price hikes and unfair pricing outside of the UK  
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





BTW, shoutout to the way you dodged engaging meaningfully like, my entire post? to project about me accusing you of talking about violent abuse when all I said was that you likening being scalped to abuse is ridiculous (because it is. Maybe reflect on why so many users have called this out?) real peak "I can't be wrong on the internet" behavior there, champ. Great job!


I engaged with the part that I felt was worth engaging with. I've made my opinions on the matter fairly clear in the thread, you seem set in your opinion. How many pages do you want to go back and forth meaninglessly, I guess?

For the most part, I actually agree with your post. Like, the meaningful content in it. I disagree with some details, re: abuse and what counts or doesn't count as it. But yea, to quote you
Scalpers aren't cool, but like, they aren't horrible boogiemen, they're just people looking to make money off of the self-imposed limits GW have in terms of production runs. It's annoying, as a hobbyist, certainly


There, have I engaged meaningfully yet? Are you satisfied?
   
Made in jp
Perfect Shot Black Templar Predator Pilot





Ishikawa Prefecture, Japan

How are scalpers abusing you? Like, it's not an opinion, you're just misusing the word. My post is significantly about, yes, getting priced out of something because you weren't fast enough to get it at retail feelsbadman.jpg, but "people who buy from scalpers are victims" is just nonsense.

Ongoing P&M shennanigans!
Warband of the Pilgrim Saint - Marines and SoB, My first ever project! http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/664123.page
Assorted Inquisition stuff! I get wierd with conversions sometimes! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/743187.page
The Carpathian Tin Ghosts - Skitarii Rangers who don't want redemption - only to kill xenos. https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/748211.page
Vaguely Coleridgian Eldar Friends https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/749595.page#9830499
Care for a snifter of mine-tonic, comrade? Genestealers await the coming of the Black Emperor https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/757105.page
The Moorendar 3rd and the Proselytes of the Drain Fly - Nurgle 40k https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/770536.page
Haven't bought from GW since December 2019 - resist price hikes and unfair pricing outside of the UK  
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer





Bristol (UK)

If scalpers aren't abusing their buyers (I would agree with the sentiment that you could better describe said buyers as whales), are they perhaps abusing me?
There are kits and releases I would very much like to have, but cannot, because they sold out too damn quick and are going on eBay for too damn much.

You can argue that a few extra kits going to scalpers is not significant, but the fact is for every box a scalper bought; somewhere, someone, missed out on buying it RRP.

This is why I hate scalpers. This discussion has gone to 6 pages because the issue is close to our hearts, and we're all bored and stubborn.
I don't think scalpers are anywhere near the most morally objectionable people, and pertinent to the thread title I'd still be willing to play you (unless they were proud and bragging about it), then I'd play my arranged game and never engage again.

Nor do I think scalpers are the only link in the chain enabling their behaviour. By they are a link, and a rotten link I'd rather didn't exist.
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

 kirotheavenger wrote:
You can argue that a few extra kits going to scalpers is not significant, but the fact is for every box a scalper bought; somewhere, someone, missed out on buying it RRP.


But is it a fact? It is not. For the FOMO things, the window is a week or even two weeks. It's not like video cards, where they sell out in seconds. People had kind of a minute to get these kits and didn't (I know it happens both ways, though).

Again, not sure why people are willing to go through these mental contortions to avoid admitting Games Workshop is the sole party responsible for the artificial scarcity, they plan, announce, and implement these conditions, they could end these situations at any time if they wanted to, and have at least once done just that due to customer pressure. Why aren't you guys harassing GWS about this? They are the ones creating the conditions in which scalpers and recasters thrive.

Also, I know it sounds like I am pro-scalper, but I'm not really. I'm just willing to draw a distinction between someone who flips a few kits once in a while, and the person who buys every single model on the shelf from every local gaming store and throws them on ebay for 200% markup.



This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/25 14:15:54


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in us
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader





Again, not sure why people are willing to go through these mental contortions to avoid admitting Games Workshop is the sole party responsible for the artificial scarcity, they plan, announce, and implement these conditions, they could end these situations at any time if they wanted to, and have at least once done just that due to customer pressure.


Is anybody doing that? Most of the conversation is around the people taking advantage of the artificial scarcity - the scalpers. I don't think anybody is trying to say the scalpers are responsible for that.

Also, I know it sounds like I am pro-scalper, but I'm not really. I'm just willing to draw a distinction between someone who flips a few kits once in a while, and the person who buys every single model on the shelf from every local gaming store and throws them on ebay for 200% markup.

I'd also dare say most participants in this thread, even on the anti-scalper side, are willing to draw that distinction.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/25 14:19:07


 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Halifax

It's not artificial scarcity. Between predicting exactly how much product will be needed, and rounding up or down, one is impossible, and one leaves you with unsold product it cost to make. The only sensible solution is to round down on your production estimate so you're not left with an expensive warehouse of unsold product. GW learned its lesson from over-estimating demand.

Stonemaier Games also got these accusations when demand for their products outstripped their production estimates: https://stonemaiergames.com/the-truth-about-stonemaier-games/

   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

 Nurglitch wrote:
It's not artificial scarcity. Between predicting exactly how much product will be needed, and rounding up or down, one is impossible, and one leaves you with unsold product it cost to make. The only sensible solution is to round down on your production estimate so you're not left with an expensive warehouse of unsold product.


They literally market them as FOMO sales. They hope to drive sales by injecting needless scarcity. We don't need to invent reasons why this happens out of thin air when they literally tell us in plain language why these products are hard to find - they intend for that to be the case.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer





Bristol (UK)

 Ouze wrote:
 kirotheavenger wrote:
You can argue that a few extra kits going to scalpers is not significant, but the fact is for every box a scalper bought; somewhere, someone, missed out on buying it RRP.


But is it a fact? It is not. For the FOMO things, the window is a week or even two weeks. It's not like video cards, where they sell out in seconds. People had kind of a minute to get these kits and didn't (I know it happens both ways, though).

Are these things limited by time or quantity?
Did GW decide to sell the product for a week, and chucked remaining stock in the bin after that time? Or is it that all copies sold out in a week?
They're limited by quantity, that means every copy that went to a scalper didn't go to someone else. Sure, it wouldn't have gone to the whale that buys it off eBay two months down the line, it would have gone to the average Joe that walked into the shop on the 8th day (assuming it sold out in 7).

Not that I even agree with your claim of a week, often this stuff sells out in mere hours, some of the Necromunda stuff has sold out in minutes before and that stuff's not even advertised as limited edition.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/25 15:02:14


 
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

I actually found the sale and linked it above. It was a 2 week window.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Ouze wrote:
 kirotheavenger wrote:
You can argue that a few extra kits going to scalpers is not significant, but the fact is for every box a scalper bought; somewhere, someone, missed out on buying it RRP.
But is it a fact? It is not. For the FOMO things, the window is a week or even two weeks. It's not like video cards, where they sell out in seconds. People had kind of a minute to get these kits and didn't (I know it happens both ways, though).
It is accurate for anything with limited supply - either limited total supply or limited supply for a period of time, for the latter the pandemic toilet paper scapters would be an example.

People who buy something with effectively unlimited availability and sell it on later are not scalpers, just resellers.
   
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

A.T. wrote:
for the latter the pandemic toilet paper scapters would be an example.


I would argue the toilet paper scalpers during the pandemic were actually price gougers, not scalpers. The reason I draw this distinction is because price gouging during an emergency is generally an actual crime - toilet paper, PPE, etc are a necessity as opposed to a plastic toy or concert tickets.

I mean, I know we're kind of arguing about the peas and not the steak, now.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/25 15:07:33


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Ouze wrote:
I would argue the toilet paper scalpers during the pandemic were actually price gougers, not scalpers. The reason I draw this distinction is because price gouging during an emergency is generally an actual crime - toilet paper, PPE, etc are a necessity as opposed to a plastic toy or concert tickets.
It's actually a crime to scalp football tickets here.

Potato/po-tato though, definitions vary. I would personally consider price gouging in of itself to refer to the initial seller and 'scalping' to refer to price gouging by a reseller (to some degree tied in with the creation/promotion of scarcity by the resellers).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/25 15:37:34


 
   
Made in us
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Halifax

 Ouze wrote:
 Nurglitch wrote:
It's not artificial scarcity. Between predicting exactly how much product will be needed, and rounding up or down, one is impossible, and one leaves you with unsold product it cost to make. The only sensible solution is to round down on your production estimate so you're not left with an expensive warehouse of unsold product.


They literally market them as FOMO sales. They hope to drive sales by injecting needless scarcity. We don't need to invent reasons why this happens out of thin air when they literally tell us in plain language why these products are hard to find - they intend for that to be the case.

You and I are reading that ad very differently. I suspect it's not "plain language."

   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

 Nurglitch wrote:
You and I are reading that ad very differently. I suspect it's not "plain language."


That's a pretty vague way of disagreeing. What is your interpretation of why these things don't mean GWS is intentionally only manufacturing a few?

Take this exclusive Sister of Battle and Terminator Librarian, for example! You have two weeks to secure these stalwart defenders of Humanity, starting RIGHT NOW, before they’re gone forever!

Just like Primaris Lieutenant Amulius, both of these models are available exclusively during a two-week Made to Order window, but they won’t ship until around the fourth quarter of 2020. Something to look forward to! Don’t let that prevent you from ordering them now, while you can – when we say they’re gone, we mean they’ll be gone for good.

I have a totally open mind as to why these statements mean something other than "GWS only made a few, and could make more, but chose not to, and hence own the scarcity of those models". I am genuinely trying to understand.





This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/25 16:03:57


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Halifax

My interpretation is that GW nearly died because of over-production (non-English Specialist games if I recall the lore correctly), and Jamey Stegmaier's very good point that the option to leave money on the table can be better than over-producing and having to do something with all the unsold product, among all the other difficulties involved in production and distribution. Risk-management-wise it's sometimes better to optimize your profits rather than attempt to maximize.

Which sucks for people that wanted to buy something and can't, but it's an imperfect world. But I think GW is manufacturing less than the demand because it's all that they can do in this current supply-chain/Pandemic snafu, at least they're delivering something. Maybe they can't deliver more.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/25 16:21:01


   
Made in us
Widowmaker





 Nurglitch wrote:
My interpretation is that GW nearly died because of over-production (non-English Specialist games if I recall the lore correctly), and Jamey Stegmaier's very good point that the option to leave money on the table can be better than over-producing and having to do something with all the unsold product, among all the other difficulties involved in production and distribution. Risk-management-wise it's sometimes better to optimize your profits rather than attempt to maximize.

Which sucks for people that wanted to buy something and can't, but it's an imperfect world. But I think GW is manufacturing less than the demand because it's all that they can do in this current supply-chain/Pandemic snafu, at least they're delivering something. Maybe they can't deliver more.


That is true. Was starting a bit before pandemic, but something is going on in the background of the industry where distribution and underproducing is not just a GW thing.

 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




marxlives wrote:

This is a perspective shift I have noticed on a generational level. Gen X "Corporations can't be people", millenials "Corporations are the best people, especially if they are from Silicon Valley", Zoomers "Corporations are my mommy and daddy!"

Lol. I mean, that's an amazing projection, but I literally don't know a single zoomer who doesn't think Bezos should hang.
   
 
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