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Made in es
Regular Dakkanaut




 Gert wrote:
Vatsetis wrote:
Thats a very complex way to say that SM dont use refractor fields because of reasons.

Literally every answer ever given can be boiled down to that. You're not being smart just smarmy.

Its also imply that all SM formations act under a perfect utilitarian military rationality, which is not the case.

No it doesn't.

Also if MkX armour is fully modular and costumizable then the inclusion of a refractor field option would be obvious.

Mk.X is modular in that it can be swapped between Tacticus, Phobos and Gravis fairly easily.

In the old days the explanation might just be that refractor fields are not an easily reproduce technology for the IOM... (and that guards officers only afford them rarely through personal contacts)... Now that the IOM has gone through the Cawl industrial revolution its makes little sense.

I'm not sure you understand what an industrial revolution is. An industrial revolution would be a massive change from largely agricultural and small scale manufacturing (such as blacksmiths or cobblers) into huge scale industrial manufacturing.
If anything the Imperium has had a period of scientific enlightenment but even then I'd argue that finding old tech in STC's and using that doesn't count since the knowledge was already discovered, the Imperium just didn't have the blueprints. This scientific "advancement" only applies to SM as well, the Guard, Mechanicus, Knights and SoB didn't benefit from Cawl's works nor did any civilian sector.


Gert, I perfectly understand the meaning of an industrial revolution and was ussing it in an ironic manner.

Framing other posters word in such a manner as you do (IE butchering the words so they lost sense) just because you want a dialectic fight is sort of rude. If you find my POV annoying you are free to ignore my posts.

Since the thread continues, somebody described marines as man sized tanks that can support bigger tanks... This would be accurate but unfortunatly the ground pressure of a Marine is similar to street bike (IE much higher than a proper tank) , which means it is very limited as to which terrain it can traverse safely at speed.

GW made the aesthetic option of turning SM into giants to make them more anatomically proportioned, unfortunatly that makes them impractically oversized in universe.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/04 14:53:53


 
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





Vatsetis wrote:Since the thread continues, somebody described marines as man sized tanks that can support bigger tanks... This would be accurate but unfortunatly the ground pressure of a Marine is similar to street bike (IE much higher than a proper tank) , which means it is very limited as to which terrain it can traverse safely at speed.

GW made the aesthetic option of turning SM into giants to make them more anatomically proportioned, unfortunatly that makes them impractically oversized in universe.
The same applies to literally every large creature in 40k, any sort of walker, and honestly, just most things in the setting.

If everything is "impractically oversized", perhaps the mechanics of that universe don't regard it as impractical in the first place, and rule of cool is more important than "but it wouldn't work in our world"?


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Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero






Vatsetis wrote:
Gert, I perfectly understand the meaning of an industrial revolution and was ussing it in an ironic manner.

You understand text alone has no tone right? I'm basing my replies entirely on previous experience in discussion with you which has been combative and misrepresentative consistently.

Framing other posters word in such a manner as you do (IE butchering the words so they lost sense) just because you want a dialectic fight is sort of rude. If you find my POV annoying you are free to ignore my posts.

If you feel like I am breaking Rule 1 then report it to the mods. I'm not having a "dialect fight" because I have no idea what tone you are using and as I said above, am basing my replies on previous experience.

GW made the aesthetic option of turning SM into giants to make them more anatomically proportioned, unfortunatly that makes them impractically oversized in universe.

Only if everything else in said universe was explicitly proportioned to a baseline human perfectly, which it isn't especially within the Imperium due to its design aesthetics.
   
Made in es
Regular Dakkanaut




Not every thing in the setting is oversized like the marines... Regular size humans are 99% of the IOM population, Taus or Eldars have mostly reasonably sized designs.

SM have a comedic size and weight not only for the real world but also in universe... Please just compare them with the SOB design.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/04 15:25:15


 
   
Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero






And this impacts on the Imperium having huge fancy buildings with huge fancy doors how exactly? An Astartes isn't going to sit around in a Militarum billet so a barracks having baseline human-scaled doors isn't an issue and even if the Astartes did need to go into those barracks, they can just go through the door with difficulty.
But again this is going to be so rare that it's not an issue.
On top of that, how do we know what T'au or Aeldari building scales are? They aren't mentioned in detail in any novel/Codex I've read. Surely the T'au would take steps to ensure their buildings are suitable for the many other Xenos races that have joined the Empire so the doors wouldn't necessarily be scaled to a Fire Warrior. What about Battlesuits? Don't they need to be present at briefings or to protect high-ranking officials?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/04 15:37:04


 
   
Made in es
Regular Dakkanaut




I have no idea what you are talking about.
   
Made in gb
Lit By the Flames of Prospero






Vatsetis wrote:
I have no idea what you are talking about.

You complained that SM are too big and wouldn't be able to fit in most buildings. Here's you saying it:
But I can also appreciate the absurdity of a setting where Space Marines are so big and heavy that they wouldnt be able to use a regular size human stairway or a lift and therefore would need to blow away half of the building just to arrive to the upper levels... Which makes them tactically dumb in many situations despite being the poster boy super soldiers.

I'm arguing against your point and providing evidence to support mine.
If you're talking about size and weight in regards to movement through certain types of terrain then that's different and then we're discussing very specific instances of terrain that a SM would perform badly in which is a waste of time.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/04 15:43:46


 
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





Vatsetis wrote:Not every thing in the setting is oversized like the marines... Regular size humans are 99% of the IOM population, Taus or Eldars have mostly reasonably sized designs.
The Imperium? Reasonable designs?

Weren't you just saying in another thread how the Imperium is supposed to be all big and exaggerated, as some kind of "satire"?

Also, Eldar - taller than humans, nearly Space Marine in height, with all their Wraith constructs, and known for their grandiose architecture to show their superiority and magnificence compared to the "inferior" races of the galaxy? I don't believe that Space Marines would have any issue moving through there (and in the cases we *do* see of Space Marines and other factions boarding Craftworlds, they are never shown as having difficulties traversing).

Tau - the faction known for having auxiliary forces like Kroot who come near Astartes height, and Battlesuits which well dwarf them? Any major Tau military structure would likely have access for Battlesuits. Unless you're talking about Tau civilian structures, which will hardly be built for combat, and so a Space Marine can likely make their own doorways inside.

SM have a comedic size and weight not only for the real world but also in universe...
Sorry, but you can't claim that it's "comedic in-universe" when we never see Astartes weight or size being a problem.

If you're going to make an appeal to how something doesn't make sense with internal logic, it would help to know the setting you're talking about.
Please just compare them with the SOB design.
You mean the way-too-thin armour designs, that only stand up to scrutiny because Rule of Cool?


There is not a single flawless or logically designed 40k faction, because 40k is not a logical setting at it's core. Making this big fuss about how Space Marines are, by their nature, illogical is missing the forest for the trees, and is even more egregious when you claim how Space Marines are incapable of things that we literally see them do.

What next, "psychic powers are just propaganda because that's unrealistic"?


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Made in es
Regular Dakkanaut




Men really, stop it.

Try to understand what your fellow posters are trying to state before answering in such a polemistic manner.

You cannot argue against the fact that SM are oversized in regards to regular humans becouse that is how they are depicted. The art also tend to show open spaces and architecture because is epic looking and if SM were portrayed interacting with human size buildings they would look comedic.

But if you think about it there is no reason why most of the galaxy human settlement need to be adapted to Astartes oversized and overweight, after all they are but a drop of water in a galaxy of trillions upun trillions of humans. Thats why in practical terms SM design is quite moroonic.

Physic powers are somwthing explain in lore. But the 40k galaxy is ment to follow real life natural laws (unless otherwise stated).

I understand that fanboys react violently to anyone pointing out the contradictions of rheir beloved myths... You can simply argue that you "believe because it absurd" or otherwise ignore my remarks, but dont try to enter into pseudological arguments that only reibforce the simple fact that under 1G abd nearby gravity conditions the oversize and overweight of SM design would be a liability in many instances.
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





Vatsetis wrote:Men really, stop it.
That's not necessary, is it?

Try to understand what your fellow posters are trying to state before answering in such a polemistic manner.
I know what you're saying. The thing is, what you're saying simply is either redundant (yes, we all know that Space Marines are ridiculous from a real life perspective, as is everything else in 40k), or simply wrong (that Space Marines are ineffective within 40k).

Am I mistaken?

You cannot argue against the fact that SM are oversized in regards to regular humans becouse that is how they are depicted. The art also tend to show open spaces and architecture because is epic looking and if SM were portrayed interacting with human size buildings they would look comedic.
But what "human" sized buildings? We aren't shown any, because the setting makes it pretty clear that the Imperium doesn't exactly *do* "human" sized like we do. Sure, civilian quarters might be small, but we've never seen Space Marines struggle with that.

They might be large compared to humans, but Imperial architecture is large and oversized compared to humans too. You can't cite lore in one place and ignore it in another.

But if you think about it there is no reason why most of the galaxy human settlement need to be adapted to Astartes oversized and overweight, after all they are but a drop of water in a galaxy of trillions upun trillions of humans. Thats why in practical terms SM design is quite moroonic.
As you said yourself the Imperium isn't rational, it isn't logical, and it's entirely absurd. In real life terms, SM design is moronic - but practically, within the 40k universe, it isn't.

So, I ask again - are you claiming that Space Marines are stupid IRL (which we all know), or are they stupid in 40k's own internal logic?

Physic powers are somwthing explain in lore. But the 40k galaxy is ment to follow real life natural laws (unless otherwise stated).
Space Marines being superb combatants and not getting stuck in doorways is explained in lore. You just like ignoring that.

You can claim all you like that Space Marines would get stuck in doors, but that simply doesn't happen in the setting.

I understand that fanboys react violently to anyone pointing out the contradictions of rheir beloved myths...
As, the good old "I'm not wrong, you're just a fanboy" argument. It's never been a good one, you know.
You can simply argue that you "believe because it absurd" or otherwise ignore my remarks, but dont try to enter into pseudological arguments that only reibforce the simple fact that under 1G abd nearby gravity conditions the oversize and overweight of SM design would be a liability in many instances.
All I can tell you is that none of the issues you describe occur in 40k. How would you go about explaining that?

And as you so kindly mentioned gravity, need I remind you that nearly any walker in 40k would struggle with their own centres of gravity being so high, that most tanks in 40k would have pathetic ground clearance and traversal abilities, and generally, most things in 40k would be a liability or outright non-functional in most real life instances.
But here's a little secret I'll clue you in on - 40k isn't real life.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/04 18:01:45



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Squishy Squig





Andre the Giant was around 224 cm tall and weighed about 236kg.

He lived and worked, largely in discomfort in 1960s - 1990s France and US.

The average height of a French male is 177cm - 180cm. as of 2019 which would probably be a little taller than 1960 but not sure.

Space Marines can fit through doors and walk up stairs in the 41st millennium.
And probably should have Refractor Fields

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/04 18:08:57


 
   
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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






On Imperial Architecture.

It’s….grandiose, to sum it up in a word. Like Gothic Churches, their sheer scale and extravagance is a statement. A way to easily cow the masses and show the power of the institution that built them.

And it always has been. None of it is designed for average human height. It’s architectural bombast.

Tau and Eldar etc? Yeah, you kinda need to design any building in 40K with defence in mind. That means Battlesuits and Wraith Constructs - not to mention any civilian vehicles.

End result? No problems for Astartes in terms of head height.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
Made in es
Regular Dakkanaut




The Galaxy and the Empire are diverse there are many savage, dead, feudal worlds... Many human worlds outside the Empire... Many places were oversized and overweight marines will be hampered.

The lore is marine centric it obviously isnt going to portray the poster boys unable tobdo their superhuman feats because of naive things such as a narrow stairway or some heavy rain turning soft ground into mud.

If you dont take bolter porn at face value and take a small step sideways you can see things under a different light.

Andrew the Giant didnt work as a SWAT and wasnt fix into a broad and solud 140cm armor.

   
Made in us
Squishy Squig





Its weird that this keeps coming back to SWAT since that's not really what space marines are closest too, but if the statement is SMs are not the ideal military infantry to send into every single conceivable scenario then I agree,

Militaries have always employed specialized troop or equipment. Doesn't make them totally unreasonable as a concept.
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





Vatsetis wrote:The Galaxy and the Empire are diverse there are many savage, dead, feudal worlds... Many human worlds outside the Empire... Many places were oversized and overweight marines will be hampered.
Tell me, why are Space Marines being deployed to savage and feudal worlds? Suppressing insurrections? Guardsmen can handle those sorts of low-tech environments. And, if it *was* necessary to deploy Astartes, I'd pretty sure that the housing of savage and feudal worlders would be no match for an Astartes barging through your wall.

The lore is marine centric it obviously isnt going to portray the poster boys unable tobdo their superhuman feats because of naive things such as a narrow stairway or some heavy rain turning soft ground into mud.
So now we're going full on "the lore only portrays Marines as capable because it's biased!!" Like, at this point, you're outright just saying "the lore is wrong" - and don't get me wrong, that's fine, if it serves a purpose. What purpose does whatever you're doing have?

At what point do you just accept that Space Marines *can* do the things they'd described as doing?

If you dont take bolter porn at face value and take a small step sideways you can see things under a different light.
Sure - and what about the pulse rifle porn, and the shuriken cannon porn, and the giant lumbering knight titan porn?

You seem to be under this illusion that we don't all agree that the lore is unrealistic and stupid. We're all in agreement on that. The difference is that the rest of us are *fine* with the lore being illogical and taken with a suspension of disbelief in favour of player enjoyment, and you instead prefer to keep saying how illogical it all is, while ignoring that the setting itself is illogical.

Andrew the Giant didnt work as a SWAT and wasnt fix into a broad and solud 140cm armor.
And Space Marines don't exist in the real world.


They/them

 
   
Made in es
Regular Dakkanaut




Suspension of desbelief should have a limit... Or else we end in the "a wizard did it" department.

Im not putting forward a convoluted scenario... Space Marines are fail miserably as an infantry concept because they are so oversized and overweight that they cannot deploy effectively in a standard human world or instalation.

You can assume that Marines have some sort of (unexplained) antigrav equipment in their armour to compensate for the huge weight and ground pressure... But they are so high and so wide and so rigid that they will very limited on any dense terrain.

Pretending that the whole 40k galaxy is build to allow the SM to manouvre with ease is like stating "I believe because its absurd".

Perhaps thats true and thats the main issue why the IOM is full of rebellions... Citizens are feed up of living in a world design for SM oversized bodies were even going to the toilet is an adventure.
   
Made in gb
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Again, the standard human planet is filled with the Imperium’s trademark gothic grandeur. Soaring columns, massive doors and so on and so forth.

As for Astartes being rigid? Sorry chap. Power Armour, combined with the Black Carapace is specifically said to be almost entirely unencumbering to its wearer. They can move as if they were wearing nothing at all.



Given the strength enhancement of their post-human biology, added to that granted by Power Armour? Mud is not going to slow them down.

As for the citizens? Rebellions happen because life is ugly, brutal and short.

Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?

Pfizer vaccine administered 13:40pm 18 Feb 21. Still no second head. Second jab 13:35pm 6 May 2021. At the Masonic Hall. 
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





Vatsetis wrote:Suspension of desbelief should have a limit... Or else we end in the "a wizard did it" department.
So, psychic powers, the literal instance of "a wizard did it" aren''t canon?

Why are psychic powers easier for you to believe than "Space Marines are functional and effective within all the other horrendously impractical and unrealistic features of the 41st millenium"?

Im not putting forward a convoluted scenario... Space Marines are fail miserably as an infantry concept because they are so oversized and overweight that they cannot deploy effectively in a standard human world or instalation.
Evidently, this is untrue in 40k.

Space Marines are shown to deploy not just effectively, but powerfully, in suppressing human rebellions and combat environs. Sorry, but that's simply just what we are shown. Do you want to change that material?

You can assume that Marines have some sort of (unexplained) antigrav equipment in their armour to compensate for the huge weight and ground pressure... But they are so high and so wide and so rigid that they will very limited on any dense terrain.
The same could be said for most walkers of any faction, and many tanks, especially Imperial Guard ones, are horrendously impractical from a traversing perspective.

Welcome to 40k.

Pretending that the whole 40k galaxy is build to allow the SM to manouvre with ease is like stating "I believe because its absurd".
I mean, yes - because the 40k universe *is* absurd, and unrealistic, and oversized, and illogical.

We you not just claiming that 40k was supposed to be "satire"?


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Made in es
Regular Dakkanaut




... But the breaking point for rebellion is not being able to go to the toilet with confort.

Thinks are not so complicated, yes 40K is full of over the top absurdities... But GW dont need to double down on the dumbest elements of the setting.

For example the Leman Russ turret is impractical and cartoony... There is no point in pretending that "in universe it works because its all fantasy and magic science"... Its a bad design decision. Next time they work on that model give it a more sensible turret like the SOB castigator. Easy.

Space Marines getting bigger and bigger in fluff and modelwise can be cool and apealing for some... But is reaching a point were is starting to get weird (just try to show that with my posts). No need to double down on the bigger is better trope.

Also the multiplication of weapon systems in general and in SM vehicules in particular is also reaching the point of stupidity... This of course is just MHO.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Vatsetis wrote:

We you not just claiming that 40k was supposed to be "satire"?


Well from my POV the fact that a super strong, super durable, super fast, super tech, super inteligent, etc... Space Marine is unable to achieve its mission because it is unable to traverse a narrow staircase is the climax of satire.






Automatically Appended Next Post:
I might seem a little intense on this topic (I like to debate obviously) and sometime ago I might think otherwise but the inflexion point for me was viewing side by side a big scale Mcfarlane model from an Intercessor and a Sister of Battle, the latter look awesome while the Marine looked comically out of scale and weird compared with the SOB.

Also, apart from 40K I play infinity... And that gives an alternative perspective towards the design of futuristic armor. And infinity is also filled with cheesy and absurd concepts like 40K..

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/08/04 21:03:39


 
   
Made in gb
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar





Vatsetis wrote:Thinks are not so complicated, yes 40K is full of over the top absurdities... But GW dont need to double down on the dumbest elements of the setting.
But... why?

Have you perhaps considered that 40k doesn't need to be practical and sensible? After all, isn't that why many people love the setting?

For example the Leman Russ turret is impractical and cartoony... There is no point in pretending that "in universe it works because its all fantasy and magic science"... Its a bad design decision. Next time they work on that model give it a more sensible turret like the SOB castigator. Easy.
Why is there no point in pretending it does? What is the alternative? That right now, Leman Russ tanks just don't exist, because their design is nonsensical? Am I right in assuming that they just... don't exist?

As for sensible - I'd like to see how a chainsword is at any point a sensible weapon.

Space Marines getting bigger and bigger in fluff and modelwise can be cool and apealing for some... But is reaching a point were is starting to get weird (just try to show that with my posts). No need to double down on the bigger is better trope.
But that's not what you were talking about. You're saying that *any* Space Marine is impractical, not just Primaris.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:
Were you not just claiming that 40k was supposed to be "satire"?

Well from my POV the fact that a super strong, super durable, super fast, super tech, super inteligent, etc... Space Marine is unable to achieve its mission because it is unable to traverse a narrow staircase is the climax of satire.
... that's not how satire works, because the lore clearly shows that Space Marines *are* able to achieve their missions.

Satire would be Space Marines being all of those things, clearly being ineffective within the setting, and still touted as being effective. That is not what we are shown, ergo, it is not satirical.


I might seem a little intense on this topic (I like to debate obviously) and sometime ago I might think otherwise but the inflexion point for me was viewing side by side a big scale Mcfarlane model from an Intercessor and a Sister of Battle, the latter look awesome while the Marine looked comically out of scale and weird compared with the SOB.
That's because Space Marines *are* weird. They're genetically engineered freaks, not "ideal humans". I actually prefer them being somewhat warped and inhuman.

Also, apart from 40K I play infinity... And that gives an alternative perspective towards the design of futuristic armor. And infinity is also filled with cheesy and absurd concepts like 40K..
And Infinity is a very different setting to 40k, in the same way that Halo and Star Trek are very different settings to 40k.

The whole point of this is to show that it is inappropriate to use metrics of "rationality" and "logic" in a setting that happily eschews both in favour of wacky, rule of cool shenanigans. Who cares if Space Marines are impractical when everything else in the setting is equally ridiculous?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/04 21:51:00



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Made in es
[DCM]
Secret Inquisitorial Eldar Xenexecutor






your mind

Because this sort of tech was and should be rare for humie scum. Ancient terminator armor and relic or artisan armor might still be operational but… at least until the great Mary Sue-ification with the heretic Cawl and Prince Girlyman, the empire of humankind was living on the remnants of a past before a fracture and a fall.

   
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Legendary Master of the Chapter





 jeff white wrote:
Because this sort of tech was and should be rare for humie scum. Ancient terminator armor and relic or artisan armor might still be operational but… at least until the great Mary Sue-ification with the heretic Cawl and Prince Girlyman, the empire of humankind was living on the remnants of a past before a fracture and a fall.


yet they managed to give one to every Imperial guardsman at the rank of captain and above?

yeaaaaah maybe rein in your psychalogical hatred of primaris marines and understand what's being asked

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/04 22:31:29


Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
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BrianDavion wrote:
 jeff white wrote:
Because this sort of tech was and should be rare for humie scum. Ancient terminator armor and relic or artisan armor might still be operational but… at least until the great Mary Sue-ification with the heretic Cawl and Prince Girlyman, the empire of humankind was living on the remnants of a past before a fracture and a fall.


yet they managed to give one to every Imperial guardsman at the rank of captain and above?

yeaaaaah maybe rein in your psychalogical hatred of primaris marines and understand what's being asked
As implied by the post, protective fields being handed to every platoon commander was not always the case.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
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Lit By the Flames of Prospero






So for like the third time in this thread, stop conflating game with background. Guard HQ's need the RF so they can survive more than one turn and be useful. They're the cheapest and I believe weakest HQ's in the game and need to have something to keep them alive.
Can anyone actually find me multiple examples of any rank of officer that has a RF in the background? None of the Ghosts officers have RF nor do any of the officers mentioned in the entirety of the Ghosts series. The second Dawn of Fire novel has a regiment of Mordians where none of the officers have a RF. Helsreach features many officers, none of which have a RF.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/05 01:02:42


 
   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut




 Gert wrote:
So for like the third time in this thread, stop conflating game with background. Guard HQ's need the RF so they can survive more than one turn and be useful. They're the cheapest and I believe weakest HQ's in the game and need to have something to keep them alive.
Can anyone actually find me multiple examples of any rank of officer that has a RF in the background? None of the Ghosts officers have RF nor do any of the officers mentioned in the entirety of the Ghosts series. The second Dawn of Fire novel has a regiment of Mordians where none of the officers have a RF. Helsreach features many officers, none of which have a RF.


Whilst that might be true, even if you go to the highest levels of the chain of command there's still millions of Major Generals, Lieutenant Generals, Generals, Field Marshals, etc. Are you telling me that even the most prestigious, upper echelons of the Imperial Guard don't have refractor fields?

What about army group level commissars? Sure maybe a company level, or regiment level commissar might lack one but the highest level?

Obliviously there is some level that has them, otherwise they wouldn't be represented in-game. GW would have given them carapace armour instead.

The point being, irrespective of what level does have them, there's bound to be many millions of them existing across the universe.
   
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 Gert wrote:
So for like the third time in this thread, stop conflating game with background. Guard HQ's need the RF so they can survive more than one turn and be useful. They're the cheapest and I believe weakest HQ's in the game and need to have something to keep them alive.
They could have achieved that in other ways, like a bodyguard mechanic. Or they could have done like in past editions and just let them die. The amount of apparently readily avilable force fields it implies is weird.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Given the strength enhancement of their post-human biology, added to that granted by Power Armour? Mud is not going to slow them down.


And that's why mud cannot stop or slow down tanks... oh wait that's completely wrong d'ho!
   
Made in es
Regular Dakkanaut




I suppose that some people really believe their frozen nuggets are "100% free-range chicken" because thats what it says on the front picture and never take a minute to look at the nutritional information at the back of the package... after all "ignorance is hapiness" is a very appropiate motto for the 40K setting.

Space Marines having to deal with the liability of their huge size is not a party pooper obsesion... it is an interesting part of the setting. For instance in the game Space Hulk (4th edition released in 2014) the Terminators enjoy a huge advantage in firepower and protection but are hampered by their overweight and oversize and therefore they are unable to quickly trasverse or react in the narrow corridors of the space hulk, giving the much more nimble Genestealers the home field advantaje... game wise this creates a masterfull asymetric game full of tactical challenges... story wise it creates a sense of dread and desperation in which even the "best of the best" that humanity have to offer are pitched in a hopeless battle against and uncaring universe.

But apparently nowadays Nu-marines can combine the strenght of Hulk and the stealth of Batman with absolutely no drawbacks... its boring and childish.
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






Well you'll get no argiment from me that Primaris are dumb.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
 
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