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PenitentJake wrote:

Apocalypse81 wrote:


People who think getting new editions suck probably don't play WFB. I'd do anything for an official 9th edition (on top of TOW). The game would become incredibly stale without new editions and mission packs.

Serious question though: let's say WFB got one Campaign book per quarter (ie. two per season), and each contained fluff, a supplement for one army, and army of renown for another and a handful of rules updates. Each book is accompanied by a box set with at least one new model for each army in the box (because there is no WFB Kill Team equivalent).

That's new models for 8 factions/ year and new rules for every faction in the game.

Would that be enough to update it and keep it fresh in perpetuity?

Or are you arguing that they actually need to blow everything up and start all over again every 3-5 years so that you have to rebuy everything you already own for a 9th time?

This is WHY I'm all for seasons. They are a viable alternative to edition churn (which I've hated in every RPG, CCG, and Wargame I've played since I was in grade three).

People said the exact same thing about PA. And yet here we are.

A new edition is simply to big of a $$ boost for GW to abandon when they can sell you seasons AND a new edition instead.

So, out of curiosity: who thinks GW is going to drop SM 2.0 in 2022? All the factions should have been updated by middle of 2022, and the Poster kids are lacking in the viability department.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So, out of curiosity: who thinks GW is going to drop SM 2.0 in 2022?

It's happening - there's multiple rumours ("new supplements for vanilla chapters, a missile launcher equipped primaris unit and a heavier dread") and we've already seen the new Ancient.

Well, at least we know when those drop, 9th is dead and we can put all this behind us.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Well, at least we know when those drop, 9th is dead and we can put all this behind us.

Oh no, that's not how this all works at all.
What'll happen is just "Same , different day." but now we call it 10th edition. And then 11th edition. And 12th edition. And 13th.....
This will continue on & on & on into the future in a 3-4 year cycle.

 Kanluwen wrote:
You're wrong.

Your entire proof is the Omnispex and Datatether? That's it?

That kind of goes against the wealth of unit entries that are all restricted by sprues/kits.

And these are just the ones that I've bothered to scan in. There are more. There will be more in the future. It is to due with sprues. You need to accept this.

 Ordana wrote:


People said the exact same thing about PA. And yet here we are.

A new edition is simply to big of a $$ boost for GW to abandon when they can sell you seasons AND a new edition instead.

Perhaps. The thing you have to remember is that 8th picked up a lot of new (and returning) players. In that context, 9th was a risk, because anyone who WAS new might not know about edition churn, and there was a risk that they'd walk away rather than buy everything again for a new edition. They went ahead with the gamble, but they caged it as 8th 2.0, and luckily for them, it didn't shrink the player base.

But from my perspective, every new edition has as much potential to disillusion many of the players they've picked up as it does to boost sales. If they do go to a 10th (and remember, I'm not saying they won't- I'm just hopeful), it will take a lot of skill to keep me in the game- they'll have to keep game size mechanics and mission support, they'll have to keep Crusade, and they'll have to sever any new Crusade content from dexes. Even then I'm not sure they can keep me for another edition.

beast_gts wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So, out of curiosity: who thinks GW is going to drop SM 2.0 in 2022?

It's happening - there's multiple rumours ("new supplements for vanilla chapters, a missile launcher equipped primaris unit and a heavier dread") and we've already seen the new Ancient.

Again, I'm not naive enough to say that it won't happen- it might.

But I should point out that NONE of these rumours are a 2.0 sm Codex. And the absence of a rumour specifically about a 2.0 codex when there are so many other rumours seems to indicate that it isn't happening. After all, if EVERYTHING else has been leaked, certainly this would have been if it was coming.

It's also worth pointing out that even if we do get a marine dex 2.0, that isn't necessarily a guarantee of a 10th ed either.

Truth is, we're all just going to have to wait and see.

PenitentJake wrote:

 Ordana wrote:


People said the exact same thing about PA. And yet here we are.

A new edition is simply to big of a $$ boost for GW to abandon when they can sell you seasons AND a new edition instead.

Perhaps. The thing you have to remember is that 8th picked up a lot of new (and returning) players. In that context, 9th was a risk, because anyone who WAS new might not know about edition churn, and there was a risk that they'd walk away rather than buy everything again for a new edition. They went ahead with the gamble, but they caged it as 8th 2.0, and luckily for them, it didn't shrink the player base.

But from my perspective, every new edition has as much potential to disillusion many of the players they've picked up as it does to boost sales. If they do go to a 10th (and remember, I'm not saying they won't- I'm just hopeful), it will take a lot of skill to keep me in the game- they'll have to keep game size mechanics and mission support, they'll have to keep Crusade, and they'll have to sever any new Crusade content from dexes. Even then I'm not sure they can keep me for another edition.

beast_gts wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So, out of curiosity: who thinks GW is going to drop SM 2.0 in 2022?

It's happening - there's multiple rumours ("new supplements for vanilla chapters, a missile launcher equipped primaris unit and a heavier dread" and we've already seen the new Ancient.

Again, I'm not naive enough to say that it won't happen- it might.

But I should point out that NONE of these rumours are a 2.0 sm Codex. And the absence of a rumour specifically about a 2.0 codex when there are so many other rumours seems to indicate that it isn't happening. After all, if EVERYTHING else has been leaked, certainly this would have been if it was coming.

It's also worth pointing out that even if we do get a marine dex 2.0, that isn't necessarily a guarantee of a 10th ed either.

Truth is, we're all just going to have to wait and see.

No, truth is,10th is guaranteed to happen. Just as 9th was guaranteed, influx of new 8e players or not. GW has never been afraid of alienating people thanks to edition churn, bloat, imbalance, etc.
The only question is exactly when 10th arrives. Not if, when.
And that when boils down to Summer of 2023? Or Summer of 2024?
Place your bets.

The only thing (short of an extinction lv event) that could possibly derail the coming of the next edition is if everyone just up & stopped buying/playing 40k as is. Then they'd just re-boot & rebrand it ala WHFB ---> AoS & things would continue rolling right along with a different logo.
That doesn't show any signs of happening.

But hey, meanwhile? You keep hoping.

It is very likely to be the summer of 2024.
We pretty much know the full releases of 2022 and a few of the 2023. Before the end of the edition, there is usually a final campaign series of books.
It would be very hard to fit all this before summer 2023.

PenitentJake wrote:

 Ordana wrote:


People said the exact same thing about PA. And yet here we are.

A new edition is simply to big of a $$ boost for GW to abandon when they can sell you seasons AND a new edition instead.

Perhaps. The thing you have to remember is that 8th picked up a lot of new (and returning) players. In that context, 9th was a risk, because anyone who WAS new might not know about edition churn, and there was a risk that they'd walk away rather than buy everything again for a new edition. They went ahead with the gamble, but they caged it as 8th 2.0, and luckily for them, it didn't shrink the player base.

But from my perspective, every new edition has as much potential to disillusion many of the players they've picked up as it does to boost sales. If they do go to a 10th (and remember, I'm not saying they won't- I'm just hopeful), it will take a lot of skill to keep me in the game- they'll have to keep game size mechanics and mission support, they'll have to keep Crusade, and they'll have to sever any new Crusade content from dexes. Even then I'm not sure they can keep me for another edition.

beast_gts wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So, out of curiosity: who thinks GW is going to drop SM 2.0 in 2022?

It's happening - there's multiple rumours ("new supplements for vanilla chapters, a missile launcher equipped primaris unit and a heavier dread") and we've already seen the new Ancient.

Again, I'm not naive enough to say that it won't happen- it might.

But I should point out that NONE of these rumours are a 2.0 sm Codex. And the absence of a rumour specifically about a 2.0 codex when there are so many other rumours seems to indicate that it isn't happening. After all, if EVERYTHING else has been leaked, certainly this would have been if it was coming.

It's also worth pointing out that even if we do get a marine dex 2.0, that isn't necessarily a guarantee of a 10th ed either.

Truth is, we're all just going to have to wait and see.

They have been churning new editions and risking alienating their players for decades, this is not a new phenomena.

All these folks forgetting how many years between editions it’s been historically...

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So, out of curiosity: who thinks GW is going to drop SM 2.0 in 2022? All the factions should have been updated by middle of 2022, and the Poster kids are lacking in the viability department.

I don't mind that GW releases 2.0 of a codex in an edition.

I would, however, like that they address actual bad codexes and update them. Like Necrons for example.

 Eldarsif wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So, out of curiosity: who thinks GW is going to drop SM 2.0 in 2022? All the factions should have been updated by middle of 2022, and the Poster kids are lacking in the viability department.

I don't mind that GW releases 2.0 of a codex in an edition.

I would, however, like that they address actual bad codexes and update them. Like Necrons for example.

Well their solution to that is to just get a new edition out as quickly as possible then update the codex for that edition. Though they've also been playing doctor by giving bad factions the band aid of MOAR RULES via supplements, but that doesn't fix core issues. Remember when they "fixed" a bunch of bad tyranid units in PA by giving them more stratagems, rather than just fixing the units? Fun times.

I'm curious though, to the people with better historical knowledge of 40k than me has any faction that wasn't Space Marines ever had two codex released in a single edition?

Chaos in 3rd had 2 editions.

 Sim-Life wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So, out of curiosity: who thinks GW is going to drop SM 2.0 in 2022? All the factions should have been updated by middle of 2022, and the Poster kids are lacking in the viability department.

I don't mind that GW releases 2.0 of a codex in an edition.

I would, however, like that they address actual bad codexes and update them. Like Necrons for example.

Well their solution to that is to just get a new edition out as quickly as possible then update the codex for that edition. Though they've also been playing doctor by giving bad factions the band aid of MOAR RULES via supplements, but that doesn't fix core issues. Remember when they "fixed" a bunch of bad tyranid units in PA by giving them more stratagems, rather than just fixing the units? Fun times.

I'm curious though, to the people with better historical knowledge of 40k than me has any faction that wasn't Space Marines ever had two codex released in a single edition?

CSM had two in 3rd (or four if you want to count the reprints of the 3.5 book, which weren't exactly insignificant changes like the base toughness of Obliterators, but if you go down that route...), as did Dark Eldar who had a second printing that compiled all of the various bits they'd ben given in CA like vehicle upgrades and new wargear into their codex.

PenitentJake wrote:

Apocalypse81 wrote:


People who think getting new editions suck probably don't play WFB. I'd do anything for an official 9th edition (on top of TOW). The game would become incredibly stale without new editions and mission packs.

Serious question though: let's say WFB got one Campaign book per quarter (ie. two per season), and each contained fluff, a supplement for one army, and army of renown for another and a handful of rules updates. Each book is accompanied by a box set with at least one new model for each army in the box (because there is no WFB Kill Team equivalent).

That's new models for 8 factions/ year and new rules for every faction in the game.

Would that be enough to update it and keep it fresh in perpetuity?

Or are you arguing that they actually need to blow everything up and start all over again every 3-5 years so that you have to rebuy everything you already own for a 9th time?

This is WHY I'm all for seasons. They are a viable alternative to edition churn (which I've hated in every RPG, CCG, and Wargame I've played since I was in grade three).

I mean, personally, no.
I've been doing this for 28 years now, and Ive always looked forward to new editions and new rules. I do wish they would go with 4-5 years per edition instead of 3, but I would be incredibly put off playing the same rules in perpetuity with just new missions. But also, thats just me. I play a lot of Tournament warhammer, and a lot of warhammer in general, now that I retired from the forces. I think if you play once in a while, I definitely understand how edition churn could be mind boggling.

Also, though, im a colle tor of Tabletop/P&P RPG books. I have a book shelf in our games room where I have hundreds of books from many different settings. I look forward to these books, and I have since I started playing D&D in the early 90's.

And they don't just sit there, we play these older editions often. My best friend and I just played a BT squats vs Eldar 3rd edition game in honor of the new box set they showed at Christmas (which is what started my Black Templars army way back when!

But again, I do think 3 years is too fast. 5 would be far better for most in the hobby.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ccs wrote:

PenitentJake wrote:

 Ordana wrote:


People said the exact same thing about PA. And yet here we are.

A new edition is simply to big of a $$ boost for GW to abandon when they can sell you seasons AND a new edition instead.

Perhaps. The thing you have to remember is that 8th picked up a lot of new (and returning) players. In that context, 9th was a risk, because anyone who WAS new might not know about edition churn, and there was a risk that they'd walk away rather than buy everything again for a new edition. They went ahead with the gamble, but they caged it as 8th 2.0, and luckily for them, it didn't shrink the player base.

But from my perspective, every new edition has as much potential to disillusion many of the players they've picked up as it does to boost sales. If they do go to a 10th (and remember, I'm not saying they won't- I'm just hopeful), it will take a lot of skill to keep me in the game- they'll have to keep game size mechanics and mission support, they'll have to keep Crusade, and they'll have to sever any new Crusade content from dexes. Even then I'm not sure they can keep me for another edition.

beast_gts wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So, out of curiosity: who thinks GW is going to drop SM 2.0 in 2022?

It's happening - there's multiple rumours ("new supplements for vanilla chapters, a missile launcher equipped primaris unit and a heavier dread" and we've already seen the new Ancient.

Again, I'm not naive enough to say that it won't happen- it might.

But I should point out that NONE of these rumours are a 2.0 sm Codex. And the absence of a rumour specifically about a 2.0 codex when there are so many other rumours seems to indicate that it isn't happening. After all, if EVERYTHING else has been leaked, certainly this would have been if it was coming.

It's also worth pointing out that even if we do get a marine dex 2.0, that isn't necessarily a guarantee of a 10th ed either.

Truth is, we're all just going to have to wait and see.

No, truth is,10th is guaranteed to happen. Just as 9th was guaranteed, influx of new 8e players or not. GW has never been afraid of alienating people thanks to edition churn, bloat, imbalance, etc.
The only question is exactly when 10th arrives. Not if, when.
And that when boils down to Summer of 2023? Or Summer of 2024?
Place your bets.

The only thing (short of an extinction lv event) that could possibly derail the coming of the next edition is if everyone just up & stopped buying/playing 40k as is. Then they'd just re-boot & rebrand it ala WHFB ---> AoS & things would continue rolling right along with a different logo.
That doesn't show any signs of happening.

But hey, meanwhile? You keep hoping.

There is no might about it, there will be a 10th edition. I have no idea why you would even consider that they might get rid of editions.

I also don't know why some think its a gamble. The vast majority of players have a single army. A codex and a rulebook is all they need. Then they add a few new models throughout the edition.

People here pretending that you're required to buy these campaign books to play are just looking for things to complain about. 90% of players never even consider or look at them. As I've said previously, the few pages of rules and the pts values are always easily found online. The odd army rules are also easily found on the most popular 40k sites. Nobody is required to buy it, unless maybe you're a tournament player and it has specific rules for your army. But us tournament players are happy for new missions. I played 18 tournaments last year, and play twice a week. Things get stale for players like me if there is no change.

 Sim-Life wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So, out of curiosity: who thinks GW is going to drop SM 2.0 in 2022? All the factions should have been updated by middle of 2022, and the Poster kids are lacking in the viability department.

I don't mind that GW releases 2.0 of a codex in an edition.

I would, however, like that they address actual bad codexes and update them. Like Necrons for example.

Well their solution to that is to just get a new edition out as quickly as possible then update the codex for that edition. Though they've also been playing doctor by giving bad factions the band aid of MOAR RULES via supplements, but that doesn't fix core issues. Remember when they "fixed" a bunch of bad tyranid units in PA by giving them more stratagems, rather than just fixing the units? Fun times.

I'm curious though, to the people with better historical knowledge of 40k than me has any faction that wasn't Space Marines ever had two codex released in a single edition?

That's why I think that if they are updating a faction within an edition they should address factions having problems and not patching using whatever alpha build the campaign supplements end up being. Sadly I don't think it will happen as their release schedules appear to be set in stone long ahead of actual release so they might have decided that 9th will get a second Space Marine Codex years ago.

Great, a battle pass was just what I had been missing from warhammer 40k. Being able to rest assured of two paid dlcs, at least, each year with I'm sure plenty of other rule splat books to bloat things up nicely along with them, sounds like everything I've always dreamed of. Nothing aids me more on leg day than carrying a whole library's worth of books just to field one faction at a time in 40k. Glad they let me know ahead of time what the bare minimum is I can expect yet still be surprised with the massive levels of bloat they can drop on me along the way. Their love for me is like a truck I see.

 kodos wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 kodos wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
40k 10th edition 2023.

by now I am sure we see 10th in 2022

I wouldn't be surprised if they do this, but I will be saddened and disappointed.

Not every codex will be updated by December 2022, I don't think. We already have reliable rumors through may of next year.

was there ever an Edition were every Codex was updated before the next one hit the shelf?
and just because there are rumours for new Codex books in May, does not mean a new Edition is released in June

FB 6th or 7th was close at least and guess 8e could be.

And GW can just release new edition right away if they want. Codex in may? Fine. Edition in july. with books being compatible they don't have to wait.

Again. Not every book is quaranteed update before new edition. 9e codexes up to book X, edition 10, 8e codex updated to 10e is 100% possible for GW and common pattern. Edition skipping codexes is quite common for GW...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Yeah that was the promise of the "nuGW" that people coming back after the catastrophe of 7th believed in.

It appeared that GW had genuinely changed.

By ramping up release schedule faster and faster? That's not change. All "nuGW" did was hire couple PR guys to do WHC articles.

Just take the heresy pill



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Honestly this kinda practice is making me long for 7th.
7th had it's issues, but good God damn, at least it was not this train wreck.

GW profit margins on their printed products must be quite high. That’s the only explanation for this.

tneva82 wrote:

 kodos wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 kodos wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
40k 10th edition 2023.

by now I am sure we see 10th in 2022

I wouldn't be surprised if they do this, but I will be saddened and disappointed.

Not every codex will be updated by December 2022, I don't think. We already have reliable rumors through may of next year.

was there ever an Edition were every Codex was updated before the next one hit the shelf?
and just because there are rumours for new Codex books in May, does not mean a new Edition is released in June

FB 6th or 7th was close at least and guess 8e could be.

And GW can just release new edition right away if they want. Codex in may? Fine. Edition in july. with books being compatible they don't have to wait.

Again. Not every book is quaranteed update before new edition. 9e codexes up to book X, edition 10, 8e codex updated to 10e is 100% possible for GW and common pattern. Edition skipping codexes is quite common for GW...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Yeah that was the promise of the "nuGW" that people coming back after the catastrophe of 7th believed in.

It appeared that GW had genuinely changed.

By ramping up release schedule faster and faster? That's not change. All "nuGW" did was hire couple PR guys to do WHC articles.

It is change and it's change for the better. However the problem is that GW do nothing to capitalise on the accelerated release schedule. They were practically tripping over themselves to release 9th (and more Primaris) as soon as they shoved the Sister's dex out the door. They never tried to balance the edition once every army had an army book or let it settle and adjust some things and see how it went. They toyed with beta rules early on then abandoned the idea. They took a stab at adjusting the game via CA but limited themselves to points changes only.

I defended GW during 8th because I bought into the hype but as soon as they announced 9th instead of 8.1 I was done. Its clear they have no intention of making a good game, only spamming us to death with bandaids in the shape of expensive hardback books or actually fixing anything

At this point it's no longer change for the good imo it's just change for changes sake. To me it seems like GW has literally no idea how to write rules, just hodge podge a bunch of new gimmicky stuff for a new codex, little to no regard to how it effects the game as a whole, shoves it out the door to push a new or previously poorly selling model and calls it good.

Its always been change for changes sake. They make a lot of money selling you books and need to keep selling them to you.