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Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




How many kits would be needed to merge them?
Tactical, devistator and terminator primaris kits cover what I feel is needed. Merge the lines as a all marines fall into the same profile feels best with where we are at.
   
Made in gb
Gore-Drenched Khorne Chaos Lord




Apple fox wrote:
How many kits would be needed to merge them?
Tactical, devistator and terminator primaris kits cover what I feel is needed. Merge the lines as a all marines fall into the same profile feels best with where we are at.


I don't think you even need specific kits for that, just an upgrade sprue with some replacement weapons. Ironically following the 30k rollout process with intercessors, then either the base bolter or the bolt rifle, either/or can cease to exist. Assuming terminators are coming imminently ofc.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/01/26 11:35:04


 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




Dudeface wrote:
Apple fox wrote:
How many kits would be needed to merge them?
Tactical, devistator and terminator primaris kits cover what I feel is needed. Merge the lines as a all marines fall into the same profile feels best with where we are at.


I don't think you even need specific kits for that, just an upgrade sprue with some replacement weapons. Ironically following the 30k rollout process with intercessors, then either the base bolter or the bolt rifle, either/or can cease to exist. Assuming terminators are coming imminently ofc.


I would like that, a good upgrades box like that would be awesome.
If it’s a full box that goes a decent way for a few units, it would probably be better than trying to do seperate boxes.
They do them for necromunda already as well, and those are good.
   
Made in de
Huge Bone Giant






 Overread wrote:
Honestly I think Primaris were just going to be the new marine sculpts and then someone at HQ said - why not both at once.
It explains why their entire line almost copies the core marine unit roster unit for unit with equivalents. It's also so strange to have one army with basically two armies within it.


Or Gathering Storm was originally meant to lead into Age of Girlyman and the botched launch of AoS scared GW enough to backpedal on their 40k plans. It doesn't take a tinfoil hat to believe that the same GW that blew up Warhammer Fantasy figured they could drop classic Marine and see Marine players happily rebuy their entire army, then saw the failure of AoS and just couldn't risk taking chances on their biggest source of income. So we got both coexisting alongside each other.

I for one won't be sad to see the division between the two Marine sides go, if that is what's going to happen. Put out an upgrade sprue so you can make Primaris with classic weapon options, say a boltgun is a boltgun regardless of slight cosmetic differences and let everyone ride in any transport. Done.

You could even go so far as to have one unit entry in Troops so you can make Intercessors with all bolters and a grenade launcher or a Tactical Squad with special and heavy weapon, and repeat that for the other FOC slots so you won't even have all these slightly different squads in the codex anymore. But I suspect that's a little too optimistic. I don't think GW is willing or able to consolidate the game in such a way.

Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone? 
   
Made in gb
Terrifying Wraith




That's too straightforward. How about a 1pt strategem that lets only ultramarines take specifically a flamer and a missile launcher in an intercessor squad, and it's called an invictarius tacticarium squadente team and they make a kit for it that is only available in a splash release kill team box?
   
Made in gb
Frightening Flamer of Tzeentch




Manchester, England

 Geifer wrote:
 Overread wrote:
Honestly I think Primaris were just going to be the new marine sculpts and then someone at HQ said - why not both at once.
It explains why their entire line almost copies the core marine unit roster unit for unit with equivalents. It's also so strange to have one army with basically two armies within it.


Or Gathering Storm was originally meant to lead into Age of Girlyman and the botched launch of AoS scared GW enough to backpedal on their 40k plans. It doesn't take a tinfoil hat to believe that the same GW that blew up Warhammer Fantasy figured they could drop classic Marine and see Marine players happily rebuy their entire army, then saw the failure of AoS and just couldn't risk taking chances on their biggest source of income. So we got both coexisting alongside each other.


Sounds like nonsense to me.

There was never any plan to "AoS" 40k. The move to AoS was done because Warhammer Fantasy wasn't selling. AoS does. The shift might have been somewhat bumpy, but it has turned out to have been a pretty sound decision for them.

40k has always sold well, so there was never any big plan to blow the universe up.

Primaris Marines were just a rescaling and redesign exercise that needed some in-universe lore to cover the gradual phase-in of Primaris-sized marines and possible phase-out of non Primaris-sized marines. With the advent of plastic 30k, that may never even happen, however. Even if that was the intention, it wasn't ever going to happen overnight since 40k AND Marines themselves continue to be so popular.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

 Geifer wrote:
 Overread wrote:
Honestly I think Primaris were just going to be the new marine sculpts and then someone at HQ said - why not both at once.
It explains why their entire line almost copies the core marine unit roster unit for unit with equivalents. It's also so strange to have one army with basically two armies within it.


Or Gathering Storm was originally meant to lead into Age of Girlyman and the botched launch of AoS scared GW enough to backpedal on their 40k plans. It doesn't take a tinfoil hat to believe that the same GW that blew up Warhammer Fantasy figured they could drop classic Marine and see Marine players happily rebuy their entire army, then saw the failure of AoS and just couldn't risk taking chances on their biggest source of income. So we got both coexisting alongside each other.


That's a good point cause GW did write themselves into the last 100 years and less of the 40K age and then had to backpedal the dates. The management that made AoS could well have tried for "And now 50K!"

A Blog in Miniature

3D Printing, hobbying and model fun! 
   
Made in de
Servoarm Flailing Magos




Germany

 ekwatts wrote:


Primaris Marines were just a rescaling and redesign exercise that needed some in-universe lore to cover the gradual phase-in of Primaris-sized marines and possible phase-out of non Primaris-sized marines. With the advent of plastic 30k, that may never even happen, however. Even if that was the intention, it wasn't ever going to happen overnight since 40k AND Marines themselves continue to be so popular.


We have two data points that directly support this explanation:

1. 'Truescale' marines were a popular concept long before Primaris became a thing, were featured in WD and on the website several times, and were among the more popular conversions, including aftermarket kits to help 'truescale' the regular miniatures.

2. The Deathwatch kits that were released comparatively short time before the first Primaris kits were, at the time, noted for being bigger than standard Marines, and much more in line with at-the-time current 'truescale' builds, and with the later Primaris kits.
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran




 ekwatts wrote:
I really don't get the Valrak hate. He isn't a nazi like Arch, and I don't find him particularly grating as a character like... some... other walking hairstyles that have suddenly started popping up on my youtube recommendations....

I can just about (nearly, sort of) understand some manbabies being upset by incorrect rumours when they're (usually pretty transparently) designed to tickle some very specific fancies, but Valrak isn't making them up himself. He's just enthusiastic about the hobby and likes to pass on info he's heard. If you don't share that same enthusiasm then why are you getting het up about what are pretty clearly labelled as rumours in the first place?


He understandably doesn't report the source of any rumour, but then it's also YouTube, so you need to feed the algorithm, so he reports every rumour, regardless of how reliable or not it is. He could filter stuff he strongly suspected was nonsense, but that means fewer videos which means death by algorithm.

Not his fault, it's YouTube. But I get the frustration people have with it as well.
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 ekwatts wrote:
 Geifer wrote:
 Overread wrote:
Honestly I think Primaris were just going to be the new marine sculpts and then someone at HQ said - why not both at once.
It explains why their entire line almost copies the core marine unit roster unit for unit with equivalents. It's also so strange to have one army with basically two armies within it.


Or Gathering Storm was originally meant to lead into Age of Girlyman and the botched launch of AoS scared GW enough to backpedal on their 40k plans. It doesn't take a tinfoil hat to believe that the same GW that blew up Warhammer Fantasy figured they could drop classic Marine and see Marine players happily rebuy their entire army, then saw the failure of AoS and just couldn't risk taking chances on their biggest source of income. So we got both coexisting alongside each other.


Sounds like nonsense to me.

There was never any plan to "AoS" 40k. The move to AoS was done because Warhammer Fantasy wasn't selling. AoS does. The shift might have been somewhat bumpy, but it has turned out to have been a pretty sound decision for them.

40k has always sold well, so there was never any big plan to blow the universe up.

Primaris Marines were just a rescaling and redesign exercise that needed some in-universe lore to cover the gradual phase-in of Primaris-sized marines and possible phase-out of non Primaris-sized marines. With the advent of plastic 30k, that may never even happen, however. Even if that was the intention, it wasn't ever going to happen overnight since 40k AND Marines themselves continue to be so popular.


Just sell top 3 miniature game.

Problem wasn't it wasn't selling. Problem was it wasn't selling space marine level.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in ca
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon






Dudeface wrote:
Apple fox wrote:
How many kits would be needed to merge them?
Tactical, devistator and terminator primaris kits cover what I feel is needed. Merge the lines as a all marines fall into the same profile feels best with where we are at.


I don't think you even need specific kits for that, just an upgrade sprue with some replacement weapons. Ironically following the 30k rollout process with intercessors, then either the base bolter or the bolt rifle, either/or can cease to exist. Assuming terminators are coming imminently ofc.


Or go the other way and say the Codex Astartes v2.0 no longer permits mixed weapon squads, so existing Heavy and Special Weapon Troopers are re-assigned into the appropriate specialist squads. No extra sprues needed that way.
   
Made in de
Servoarm Flailing Magos




Germany

Just a quick heads-up:

I intend to maintain this thread until mid-year when, as far as we know, 10th edition will release or at least be announced. It stands to reason that we will see a lot of rumours until then, some of them probably contradictory. Primaris/Space Marine discussion is well within the scope of this thread due to them being included in the starter box with near certainity, as is discussion about a possible 'remodelling' of the core game, so go for it.

That being said, i'd appreciate it if we kept AoS-related discussions and rehashes of its history down to a minimum, in order not to clutter up this thread too much.

Thanks!
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




deano2099 wrote:
 ekwatts wrote:
I really don't get the Valrak hate. He isn't a nazi like Arch, and I don't find him particularly grating as a character like... some... other walking hairstyles that have suddenly started popping up on my youtube recommendations....

I can just about (nearly, sort of) understand some manbabies being upset by incorrect rumours when they're (usually pretty transparently) designed to tickle some very specific fancies, but Valrak isn't making them up himself. He's just enthusiastic about the hobby and likes to pass on info he's heard. If you don't share that same enthusiasm then why are you getting het up about what are pretty clearly labelled as rumours in the first place?


He understandably doesn't report the source of any rumour, but then it's also YouTube, so you need to feed the algorithm, so he reports every rumour, regardless of how reliable or not it is. He could filter stuff he strongly suspected was nonsense, but that means fewer videos which means death by algorithm.

Not his fault, it's YouTube. But I get the frustration people have with it as well.


Another problem is if you watch his videos, YouTube starts to show you more that all feed into that algorithm. So people may have there entire experience shift with it.
I know I get way better content after some pruning to what I see, and no shortage to 40k content.
   
Made in in
[MOD]
Otiose in a Niche






Hyderabad, India

Tsagualsa wrote:
Added the B&C rumours to the OP and edited them for brevity.


Thanks, appreciate it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Give the rumors of Lionel Johnson returning I think it's most likely the new Terminators are going to be Deathwing. Which does not make a large amount of sense since DA got a big refresh in 20...15?

Ultramarines would make the most sense again Nids but that's my official guess. Dark Angels in 2023.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/01/26 19:19:49


 
   
Made in gb
Gore-Drenched Khorne Chaos Lord




 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Tsagualsa wrote:
Added the B&C rumours to the OP and edited them for brevity.


Thanks, appreciate it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Give the rumors of Lionel Johnson returning I think it's most likely the new Terminators are going to be Deathwing. Which does not make a large amount of sense since DA got a big refresh in 20...15?

Ultramarines would make the most sense again Nids but that's my official guess. Dark Angels in 2023.


The assumed series of events is vashtorr or whoever wakes up the Lion as part of Arks of Omen in 9th ed. The logical assumption is the Lion becomes the dominant character on the nihilus side of the imperium, with the 10th ed starter being the siege of baal.
   
Made in fi
Been Around the Block




 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Which does not make a large amount of sense since DA got a big refresh in 20...15?

January 2013, exactly 10 years ago.
   
Made in in
[MOD]
Otiose in a Niche






Hyderabad, India

Santtu wrote:
 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
Which does not make a large amount of sense since DA got a big refresh in 20...15?

January 2013, exactly 10 years ago.


The time does fly.

 
   
Made in fr
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot




 ekwatts wrote:
The shift might have been somewhat bumpy, but it has turned out to have been a pretty sound decision for them.


No. The original decision to kill off WHFB and replace it with AoS nearly ended GW's fantasy line. It was a complete disaster that was widely (and accurately) mocked for being some of the worst wargaming rules ever written. What succeeded was GW's second plan, the revised version of AoS they desperately threw together after the original plan failed. The success of the second plan doesn't change the utter failure of the original concept. That is what scared them off from making any major changes to 40k. And if they had full knowledge of how their original AoS plan was going to fail I suspect we would have seen a more moderate revision of WHFB instead.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
deano2099 wrote:
He understandably doesn't report the source of any rumour, but then it's also YouTube, so you need to feed the algorithm, so he reports every rumour, regardless of how reliable or not it is. He could filter stuff he strongly suspected was nonsense, but that means fewer videos which means death by algorithm.

Not his fault, it's YouTube. But I get the frustration people have with it as well.


It's absolutely his fault. It's his deliberate choice to pursue maximizing his monetization ability over providing reliable information to the community. It's an understandable choice, of course, but let's not pretend that it is somehow not a choice.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/01/27 02:31:54


 
   
Made in us
Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan




Mexico

... they are rumors. The unreliability is actually part of the definition.

   
Made in fr
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot




 Tyran wrote:
... they are rumors. The unreliability is actually part of the definition.


Not really. Some rumors are unreliable nonsense posted by some random person with zero credibility, some "rumors" are actually leaks by people (usually playtesters) with inside information and a news source like Valrak may have solid proof that the leaks are accurate but be unwilling to put their source at risk by revealing that proof.
   
Made in hk
Mekboy Hammerin' Somethin'






So they are releasing a boxed set with a mixture of Primaris and current Terminators (along with the new Azrael). That was a bit of a surprise, although I think the original rumour was that this was going to be a 10th Edition release. Instead, it's just an interim set that forces you to buy a bunch of existing models if you want the new ones.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

Terry Pratchett RIP 
   
Made in gb
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant






They're going to need to shift on those older Terminator sculpts somehow... Lumping them in a box is one way.

My hobby instagram account: @the_shroud_of_vigilance
My Shroud of Vigilance Hobby update blog for me detailed updates and lore on the faction:
Blog 
   
Made in gb
Gore-Drenched Khorne Chaos Lord




Aecus Decimus wrote:
 Tyran wrote:
... they are rumors. The unreliability is actually part of the definition.


Not really. Some rumors are unreliable nonsense posted by some random person with zero credibility, some "rumors" are actually leaks by people (usually playtesters) with inside information and a news source like Valrak may have solid proof that the leaks are accurate but be unwilling to put their source at risk by revealing that proof.


So if they don't verify the reliability by naming the source, you might say they're a rumour by definition and therefore open to unreliability?

It honestly pisses me off when people act like this is some life or death pillar of society type situation where a rumour must be vetted and have a reliable source. It becomes a fact at that point. People don't post on here because of these bs interrogations. The chaos marines leaker started posting on here after some of us were pasting the news over, they stopped because they kept being "called out" and met with negative hostility.
   
Made in fr
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot




Dudeface wrote:
So if they don't verify the reliability by naming the source, you might say they're a rumour by definition and therefore open to unreliability?


Scenario A: a playtester comes to Valrak with a copy of the playtest material and gives him some stuff to post. You as the reader don't know who the source is but Valrak does.

Scenario B: Valrak sees some random reddit comment about a "rumor" and reposts it to keep his engagement metrics up. Nobody involved knows where the "rumor" came from or if it has any credibility at all.

Do you see why one of these is a rumor and one is a leak being labeled a "rumor" only to keep the source from getting into trouble? And how, even if you as the reader don't see the proof, the people publishing leaks are able to confirm them and eliminate the reliability issue?

It honestly pisses me off when people act like this is some life or death pillar of society type situation where a rumour must be vetted and have a reliable source. It becomes a fact at that point. People don't post on here because of these bs interrogations. The chaos marines leaker started posting on here after some of us were pasting the news over, they stopped because they kept being "called out" and met with negative hostility.


This seems like a rather hyperbolic response to pointing out that Valrak has a poor signal to noise ratio.
   
Made in gb
Gore-Drenched Khorne Chaos Lord




Aecus Decimus wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
So if they don't verify the reliability by naming the source, you might say they're a rumour by definition and therefore open to unreliability?


Scenario A: a playtester comes to Valrak with a copy of the playtest material and gives him some stuff to post. You as the reader don't know who the source is but Valrak does.

Scenario B: Valrak sees some random reddit comment about a "rumor" and reposts it to keep his engagement metrics up. Nobody involved knows where the "rumor" came from or if it has any credibility at all.

Do you see why one of these is a rumor and one is a leak being labeled a "rumor" only to keep the source from getting into trouble? And how, even if you as the reader don't see the proof, the people publishing leaks are able to confirm them and eliminate the reliability issue?

It honestly pisses me off when people act like this is some life or death pillar of society type situation where a rumour must be vetted and have a reliable source. It becomes a fact at that point. People don't post on here because of these bs interrogations. The chaos marines leaker started posting on here after some of us were pasting the news over, they stopped because they kept being "called out" and met with negative hostility.


This seems like a rather hyperbolic response to pointing out that Valrak has a poor signal to noise ratio.


Of course I can see the difference, my issue is that fact you expect that on a news and rumour platform you want only to receive facts being presented to you as rumours, for reasons that you've not really expanded on. Is your time and mental capacity too valuable to have conversations about rumours and hypotheticals?
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 Snord wrote:
Instead, it's just an interim set that forces you to buy a bunch of existing models if you want the new ones.
That's really nothing new. Most battle boxes are a new miniature and tons of existing stock.

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in fr
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot




Dudeface wrote:
Of course I can see the difference, my issue is that fact you expect that on a news and rumour platform you want only to receive facts being presented to you as rumours, for reasons that you've not really expanded on. Is your time and mental capacity too valuable to have conversations about rumours and hypotheticals?


Shockingly yes, I do want a better signal to noise ratio where only credible leaks are presented and not random nonsense, even if it means the news guy's youtube engagement metrics are a bit lower. What exactly does it add to the conversation when I can make a reddit post about "my source tells me Tau are getting squatted in 10th" and 15 minutes later the rumor sites will all have it posted as YOU WONT BELIEVE WHAT GW IS DOING IN 10TH CLICK HERE TO SEE?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/01/27 07:59:19


 
   
Made in gb
Gore-Drenched Khorne Chaos Lord




Aecus Decimus wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Of course I can see the difference, my issue is that fact you expect that on a news and rumour platform you want only to receive facts being presented to you as rumours, for reasons that you've not really expanded on. Is your time and mental capacity too valuable to have conversations about rumours and hypotheticals?


Shockingly yes, I do want a better signal to noise ratio where only credible leaks are presented and not random nonsense, even if it means the news guy's youtube engagement metrics are a bit lower. What exactly does it add to the conversation when I can make a reddit post about "my source tells me Tau are getting squatted in 10th" and 15 minutes later the rumor sites will all have it posted as YOU WONT BELIEVE WHAT GW IS DOING IN 10TH CLICK HERE TO SEE?


You're critiquing their presentation rather than the content. As a rumour aggregator they can choose to present any and/or all rumours they find at their discretion. The part you seem to be struggling with is that a rumour doesn't need to be verified, sourced reliably nor held back for validity checks.

The click bait title is purely algorithms and presentation, you don't personally have to watch it, if someone reposts it like here.

It's a rumour. It's not a fact. None of it is. If you don't enjoy a hobby discussion about things that aren't factually accurate, I suggest you dont invest time in a rumour thread.
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Dudeface wrote:
Aecus Decimus wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Of course I can see the difference, my issue is that fact you expect that on a news and rumour platform you want only to receive facts being presented to you as rumours, for reasons that you've not really expanded on. Is your time and mental capacity too valuable to have conversations about rumours and hypotheticals?


Shockingly yes, I do want a better signal to noise ratio where only credible leaks are presented and not random nonsense, even if it means the news guy's youtube engagement metrics are a bit lower. What exactly does it add to the conversation when I can make a reddit post about "my source tells me Tau are getting squatted in 10th" and 15 minutes later the rumor sites will all have it posted as YOU WONT BELIEVE WHAT GW IS DOING IN 10TH CLICK HERE TO SEE?


You're critiquing their presentation rather than the content. As a rumour aggregator they can choose to present any and/or all rumours they find at their discretion. The part you seem to be struggling with is that a rumour doesn't need to be verified, sourced reliably nor held back for validity checks.

The click bait title is purely algorithms and presentation, you don't personally have to watch it, if someone reposts it like here.

It's a rumour. It's not a fact. None of it is. If you don't enjoy a hobby discussion about things that aren't factually accurate, I suggest you dont invest time in a rumour thread.


The thing is they aren't using discretion. They are putting out 100%. Clicks for cash. They don't care about sharing rumours. Just making $$$$$$$.

Give them rumour that space marines gets removed from game in 10th and they will put up video about it. What does that do?

They don't actually contribute to the community. They are leeching off from it

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in fr
Perfect Shot Ultramarine Predator Pilot




Dudeface wrote:
As a rumour aggregator they can choose to present any and/or all rumours they find at their discretion


Yes, that's exactly what I said. Valrak could choose to post only credible information. Or he could choose to repost anything and everything that is ever mentioned by anyone. It is entirely at his discretion, and he has made the deliberate choice to repost everything because that's what maximizes his engagement metrics and his personal income.

The part you seem to be struggling with is that a rumour doesn't need to be verified, sourced reliably nor held back for validity checks.


And why not? Why should every random piece of nonsense be reported as a rumor without any attempt to confirm that the source is credible? What value is there in posting nonsense just to fill a quota of posts per week?
   
 
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