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All those spare bits made conversions easier and more fun. And if you wanted to play Tyranids in BFG, you could make the bulk of your fleet from your 40k Tyranid bits box.
Dudeface wrote: There's customisation for customisations sakes.
No it's a matter of implementation. It's like when people whinge about USRs and never realise that so many other games use USRs, so the USR problems in 40k are down to how they were implemented, not the fact that USRs exist in the first place.
If there's too much crossover between Warrior (or Gaunt, or anything) options then they need to do a better job at making the weapon types distinct. We know they can do it with other armies, so why not 'Nids?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/03/25 17:08:49
I wonder what role will Norn Emissary play? We already have bugs which use psychic powers as their main way of attack with Zoans, Neuro and Maleceptor. Will it be just another but more powerful? It would be like Dominatrix but smaller, and flying? Or, and here is my personal dread/heresy, it is a new reimagined Dominatrix with new, trademarked name?
Shadow Walker wrote: I wonder what role will Norn Emissary play? We already have bugs which use psychic powers as their main way of attack with Zoans, Neuro and Maleceptor. Will it be just another but more powerful? It would be like Dominatrix but smaller, and flying? Or, and here is my personal dread/heresy, it is a new reimagined Dominatrix with new, trademarked name?
Probably the later, a 'Dominatrix' that fits smaller games, has a googleable name and possibly spams stuff like the old 'Catalyst' psychic power or something like that. I guess a 'support caster' with buffs is something the Tyranids don't really have at the moment, maybe that's their niche for this unit.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/03/25 18:37:05
Shadow Walker wrote: I wonder what role will Norn Emissary play? We already have bugs which use psychic powers as their main way of attack with Zoans, Neuro and Maleceptor. Will it be just another but more powerful? It would be like Dominatrix but smaller, and flying? Or, and here is my personal dread/heresy, it is a new reimagined Dominatrix with new, trademarked name?
If as the stream suggested psychic powers are now unit abilities? Maybe the Norn Emissary will be the Buffing Bug? Something you float around your main swarm dishing out psychic shields and that?
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
Yeah I could see it being a buffing bug whilst the Malceptor and Zoanthrope are the attack bugs.
OR
It could be a debuff or mix of the two - a unit that doesn't hurt anything but makes the whole situation weighted in favour of the tyranid side
Norn Queen/Dominatrix* was always a massive model not really for the 40K game space, so this doesn't have to replace that model; just perhaps provide another psy creature at the 32mm scale without being a vast monster.
* I recall some early epic lore/wd lore was that the dominatrix was the mount and a norn queen sat atop in the throne blasting out powers. Then later it changed to the dominatrix being the powerhouse of the main model and a warrior sitting on top manning the top gun .
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/03/25 18:43:40
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: I can dig out my Hive War book and check the original lore. But I don’t think big beastie or embedded beastie were ever said to be Norn Queens?
I've got a feeling it was mentioned in the white dwarf when Tyranids were released for Epic 40K
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: I can dig out my Hive War book and check the original lore. But I don’t think big beastie or embedded beastie were ever said to be Norn Queens?
They're not explicitly called norn queens, but there is a part about them laying eggs to expand the swarm:
There are only a couple of places where norn queens have been described, but they're said to be absolutely massive. Filling most of a chamber on the hive ship that's many hundreds of meters tall. So it doesn't really jive that they would be able to be contained within a dominatrix.
I also had a dig through the old white dwarfs from around the release of tyranids in epic a while back (around white dwarf 183/184 I think), and there's nothing in there suggesting the rider is a norn queen either. I'm pretty sure that whole idea is just someone's head-canon, which they edited into one of the wiki's for a few years. Long enough for plenty of people to read it, and lore youtubers to repeat it without checking the lack of sources until it became 'common knowledge'.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/03/25 19:50:55
At the same time its clear that the Dominatrix has had quite a few shifts in its lore over the years. Which is pretty common for something that hasn't been a model in a long time and for GW to shuffle things around.
I agree Norn Queens have been - since 3rd edition? Vast behemoths that reside in the Hive Ships (where the line between queen and ship is blurry) and are, far as we know, the top most organism of the Hives in general. At least Hive Fleets are said to follow Queens* and we don't know of any entities greater, thus far.
*In so much as the Tyranid Swarm shows individuality/variation in behaviour despite it all being one giant unity as well.
Overread wrote: At the same time its clear that the Dominatrix has had quite a few shifts in its lore over the years. Which is pretty common for something that hasn't been a model in a long time and for GW to shuffle things around.
I agree Norn Queens have been - since 3rd edition? Vast behemoths that reside in the Hive Ships (where the line between queen and ship is blurry) and are, far as we know, the top most organism of the Hives in general. At least Hive Fleets are said to follow Queens* and we don't know of any entities greater, thus far.
*In so much as the Tyranid Swarm shows individuality/variation in behaviour despite it all being one giant unity as well.
I think we can actually pinpoint the almost ship-sized Norn Queens to 'Warriors of Ultramar' from 2003, which is late 3rd edition, which is AFAIK the first time a detailled description was given in 'modern' 40k.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/03/25 20:15:54
Overread wrote: At the same time its clear that the Dominatrix has had quite a few shifts in its lore over the years. Which is pretty common for something that hasn't been a model in a long time and for GW to shuffle things around.
I agree Norn Queens have been - since 3rd edition? Vast behemoths that reside in the Hive Ships (where the line between queen and ship is blurry) and are, far as we know, the top most organism of the Hives in general. At least Hive Fleets are said to follow Queens* and we don't know of any entities greater, thus far.
*In so much as the Tyranid Swarm shows individuality/variation in behaviour despite it all being one giant unity as well.
Norn queens have been that way since advanced space crusade in 1990.
Spoiler:
Consistent with Warriors of Ultramar in 2003.
Spoiler:
The sight of the Norn Queen was something that Uriel would never forget for as long as he lived. The creature was massive, easily the size of a Battle Titan, its bulk filling the chamber with countless means of producing its monstrous offspring. A vast, mucus-ribbed tube hung from the walls, pulsing with disgusting motion and dripping great swathes of egg sacs to a slime filled pool where nurse organisms carried them away in great, scooped pincers.
Huge pools of protoplasmic ooze bubbled and burst with motion as screeching infant beasts were drooled from its surface along bony chutes to begin growing almost as soon as they hit the ground. Thousands of gelatinous incubation larvae hung from resinous mucus on the great arched ceiling, supported on huge ribs of bone, each thicker than the columns in the Temple of Correction on Macragge. Stinking fluids coated the floor and foetid steam gusted from millions of tiny orifices in the walls. Ropes of dripping intestine and nutrients pumped viscous fluids into the belly of the Norn Queen, its vast, bloated head fused with the ribbed ceiling of the chamber. Six-legged creatures that resembled fat spiders crawled all over its body, cleaning, feeding and ministering to their queen. Huge javelin-like spines protruded from her bony carapace, each dripping with hissing poisons.
The Norn Queen itself was as much a part of the bio-ship as an individual creature.
Also I disagree that there have been shifts in the lore of the Dominatrix. The fact is they have barely been mentioned since their initial appearance in 1995. They get namedropped in codexes from time to time, with brief descriptions that don't really add to or change anything about them. But there have been no big lore updates about them, as they were only in a single game which has been in stasis for a couple of decades, so there has been no reason for GW to do anything more with them. They just exist as presented in the old Hive War rulebook.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/03/25 20:30:30
Overread wrote: Yeah I could see it being a buffing bug whilst the Malceptor and Zoanthrope are the attack bugs.
OR
It could be a debuff or mix of the two - a unit that doesn't hurt anything but makes the whole situation weighted in favour of the tyranid side
Norn Queen/Dominatrix* was always a massive model not really for the 40K game space, so this doesn't have to replace that model; just perhaps provide another psy creature at the 32mm scale without being a vast monster.
* I recall some early epic lore/wd lore was that the dominatrix was the mount and a norn queen sat atop in the throne blasting out powers. Then later it changed to the dominatrix being the powerhouse of the main model and a warrior sitting on top manning the top gun .
The Dominatrix background has never changed. Sounds like you have been either misremembering or have read someone's fan fiction or misunderstanding of the Tyranid background who mistook Dominatrix for Norn Queen.
The Dominatrix creature was the leader of the ground based swarms. The Dominatrix proper was the fusion of the big creature with the "Aliens space jockey" on the back, and neither one alone was the Dominatrix. In Epic, it was a super-heavy, and could regenerate and had a warp field. It had a bio-cannon on its back, which was decent and lots of short range spines for anti-infantry work. What really made it deadly though was it was a psyker and could use a power (I think it was Warp Pulse or something like that) and it had a linear template and basically hit like multiple Volcano cannon hits, either downing shields or destroying Titans and super-heavies. It also had the largest Synapse range of any Tyranid ground creature. However in the editions since Epic Hive War, GW has focused more on the humanoid Hive Tyrants (since those can appear on a 40K battlefield) and de-emphasized the Dominatrix, even though originally the Tyrants were the expendable consort minds of the Dominatrix. Mere lieutenants in other words to the command unit of the Dominatrix, which was in size more like a Capitol Imperialis. Titans were bigger, but they were the goons to the ground swarm queen that was the Dominatrix.
What was the key part of the Dominatrix was that it was capable of producing more Tyranids (not in game terms but in background terms). It could lay eggs or otherwise spawn more Tyranids.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/03/26 00:46:44
I can't see why you'd ever want the spinefists? Devourer vs deathspitter is basically down to "can you spare 5 pts" given one is better against nearly any target than the other. In melee, is there a reason dual swords and sword + whip needs to be different rules other than legacy at this point? Rending claws > scything talons to the point they might as well not exist and having multiple weapons seems a bit pointless, i.e. what is the benefit of 4 scytals despite being an option, or 4 rending claws?
There's customisation for customisations sakes.
Of course that's now. If gw didn't care about profits(hah!) it wouldn't have to bb so and instead each has role they are good at.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/03/26 05:23:15
I can't see why you'd ever want the spinefists? Devourer vs deathspitter is basically down to "can you spare 5 pts" given one is better against nearly any target than the other. In melee, is there a reason dual swords and sword + whip needs to be different rules other than legacy at this point? Rending claws > scything talons to the point they might as well not exist and having multiple weapons seems a bit pointless, i.e. what is the benefit of 4 scytals despite being an option, or 4 rending claws?
There's customisation for customisations sakes.
Of course that's now. If gw didn't care about profits(hah!) it wouldn't have to bb so and instead each has role they are good at.
Tyranid ranged weapons are a relic from 2nd edition days, when they were better differentiated.
Spinefists (and before that the spikerifle) were for AP at the expense of lower Strength. Fleshborers were the Strength option. Devourers were for number of shots. Deathspitters were high Strength single shot blast weapons. Barbed Stranglers were big blast. Vencom Cannons were basically best with high strength, decent rate of fire, and range but only a few creatures had access.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/03/26 07:54:38
Random thought - if there is a really big Tyranid line refresh, one that does not care about the date of release of particular models, then my nr one for such a change from the newest ones would be Toxicrene. Those tentacles are so stupidly designed that it should be punishable for all responsible for creation of that model.
Tastyfish wrote: Looks like there the new Genestealers are a lot closer to gaunts than they are now, with a gauntlike head and almost a sharkfin carapace.
Looks like what we are calling a Screamer Killer is a Cerebrofex.
Starter set rumours that seem to match this video:
-1 Norn-Maleceptrix (Big brain bug, lesser incarnation of the Norn-Queen, able to 'evolve' units. Semi-feminine???)
-1 Tyranid Primus (Big warrior, Two Devourers, Large sword, Claw-whip, boosts)
-1 Lictor (New form of Lictor)
-2 Magistraunt (Mix of Venomthropes and Pyrovore)
-20 Genestealers (New kit, Options for Armored plates and Acid-claws)
-1 Cerebrofex (Blend of Carnifex and Zoanthroap, Smaller Maleceptor)
-3 Genehunters (New type of Warriors, Shock Troopers, made with Space Marine Geneseeds they literally eat.)
Did this rumour appear before or after the video do we know?
Danny76 wrote: Looks like what we are calling a Screamer Killer is a Cerebrofex.
Starter set rumours that seem to match this video:
-1 Norn-Maleceptrix (Big brain bug, lesser incarnation of the Norn-Queen, able to 'evolve' units. Semi-feminine???)
That rumour was from around a month ago and is very clearly proven wrong by the space marine content it lists, pretty much none of which are in the trailer:
Spoiler:
New Starter Box is called Leonitus Crusade
SPACE MARINES
-1 Primaris Chapter Master (Think Gravis but not haunched over, Power Sword, Bolt pistol)
-1 Primaris Prosecutor (Two-handed axe)
-1 Primaris Noviate Master (Scout Master, Sniper Rifle)
-10 Primaris Space Marine Intervectors (Jump Pack Primaris, Bolter Gauntlets)
-5 Primaris Noviates (Primaris Scouts, Hellblast Shotguns)
-3 Primaris Arduanters (Primaris Terminators, Graviton Hammers, Shields, new type of Gravis Armor)
-3 Primaris Instigators (Pimaris, Shoulder mounted Grav Cannons)
These rumours are the best fit for official info:
New video from Valrak about the 10th boxset
- Terminators "huge thing" in the boxset, no info if Primaris or Firstborn
- Terminator Chaptain and Terminator Librarian
- Bulky, more action poses
- 'Incinerators' new flame squad, like Black Templar Pyreblaster
- New Veteran Squad, "more ranged type"
- New ranged only Dreadnought, lascannons and rockets, maybe "chonkier"
- This one for range, Redemptor as middle ground and brutalis as melee version
- No jump assault marines, will be coming but not in boxset, no idea when
- Generic ultramarines paint scheme
Valrak got more info on Tyranids in the 10th starter box - note that Valrak mixes general stuff with box-specific content:
- 'Two to three new types of Gaunts' he does not know the name of
- New Hormagaunts
- Vemon Crawler type unit in the vein of a 'Brainbug'
- New Screamer Killer Carnifex.
- New Lictors
- Winged Warrior; unclear if it's multiple or singular, so possibly the HQ opposite the captain
- New Biovores
- Plastic Spore Mines, have a 'chunkier' version
- Norn Emissary beefed up Zoanthrope
- After the box, Tyranids get 'a full range refresh'
- New Genestealers later on, possibly in another boxed set, possibly Space Hulk or Space Hulk themed Kill Team box w/ new Terminators +
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2023/03/26 09:45:13
Tastyfish wrote: Looks like there the new Genestealers are a lot closer to gaunts than they are now, with a gauntlike head and almost a sharkfin carapace.
Looks like what we are calling a Screamer Killer is a Cerebrofex.
Starter set rumours that seem to match this video:
-1 Norn-Maleceptrix (Big brain bug, lesser incarnation of the Norn-Queen, able to 'evolve' units. Semi-feminine???)
-1 Tyranid Primus (Big warrior, Two Devourers, Large sword, Claw-whip, boosts)
-1 Lictor (New form of Lictor)
-2 Magistraunt (Mix of Venomthropes and Pyrovore)
-20 Genestealers (New kit, Options for Armored plates and Acid-claws)
-1 Cerebrofex (Blend of Carnifex and Zoanthroap, Smaller Maleceptor)
-3 Genehunters (New type of Warriors, Shock Troopers, made with Space Marine Geneseeds they literally eat.)
Did this rumour appear before or after the video do we know?
It was 02/09/2023 'The 4chan rumours' according to 10th rumours thread. Also it is obvious that SC is not a ''Cerebrofex'' from the list above.
xttz wrote: These rumours are the best fit for official info:
New video from Valrak about the 10th boxset
- Terminators "huge thing" in the boxset, no info if Primaris or Firstborn
- Terminator Chaptain and Terminator Librarian
- Bulky, more action poses
- 'Incinerators' new flame squad, like Black Templar Pyreblaster
- New Veteran Squad, "more ranged type"
- New ranged only Dreadnought, lascannons and rockets, maybe "chonkier"
- This one for range, Redemptor as middle ground and brutalis as melee version
- No jump assault marines, will be coming but not in boxset, no idea when
- Generic ultramarines paint scheme
Valrak got more info on Tyranids in the 10th starter box - note that Valrak mixes general stuff with box-specific content:
- 'Two to three new types of Gaunts' he does not know the name of
- New Hormagaunts
- Vemon Crawler type unit in the vein of a 'Brainbug'
- New Screamer Killer Carnifex.
- New Lictors
- Winged Warrior; unclear if it's multiple or singular, so possibly the HQ opposite the captain
- New Biovores
- Plastic Spore Mines, have a 'chunkier' version
- Norn Emissary beefed up Zoanthrope
- After the box, Tyranids get 'a full range refresh'
- New Genestealers later on, possibly in another boxed set, possibly Space Hulk or Space Hulk themed Kill Team box w/ new Terminators +
Not just the best fit, its an exact fit to what we saw in the launch trailer
Valrak should be doing new videos with more infos about this and future stuff this week so will be very interesting to see
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2023/03/26 10:22:34
xttz wrote: These rumours are the best fit for official info:
New video from Valrak about the 10th boxset
- Terminators "huge thing" in the boxset, no info if Primaris or Firstborn
- Terminator Chaptain and Terminator Librarian
- Bulky, more action poses
- 'Incinerators' new flame squad, like Black Templar Pyreblaster
- New Veteran Squad, "more ranged type"
- New ranged only Dreadnought, lascannons and rockets, maybe "chonkier"
- This one for range, Redemptor as middle ground and brutalis as melee version
- No jump assault marines, will be coming but not in boxset, no idea when
- Generic ultramarines paint scheme
Valrak got more info on Tyranids in the 10th starter box - note that Valrak mixes general stuff with box-specific content:
- 'Two to three new types of Gaunts' he does not know the name of
- New Hormagaunts
- Vemon Crawler type unit in the vein of a 'Brainbug'
- New Screamer Killer Carnifex.
- New Lictors
- Winged Warrior; unclear if it's multiple or singular, so possibly the HQ opposite the captain
- New Biovores
- Plastic Spore Mines, have a 'chunkier' version
- Norn Emissary beefed up Zoanthrope
- After the box, Tyranids get 'a full range refresh'
- New Genestealers later on, possibly in another boxed set, possibly Space Hulk or Space Hulk themed Kill Team box w/ new Terminators +
Not just the best fit, its an exact fit to what we saw in the launch trailer
Valrak should be doing new videos with more infos about this and future stuff this week so will be very interesting to see
The videos coming this week will be 'canned' material as Valrak is on holiday, so we probably won't get too much new/exciting stuff.
The rumour that contained "Cerebrofex" and "Magistraunt" is fake, as are all the other ones with "Apex Swarmlord" and whatever.
The only correct set of rumours is the one Valrak made public. The Tyranid Reddit indeed identified the third Gaunt variant, new Spore Mines will be part of the Biovore kit so that's happening too, the only unconfirmed thing is if there will be a new Mucolid Spore or not.
Yes, although while the sketch is nicely done, it's not fully correct. After rewatching the trailer in 0.25 speed, it's interesting to note that almost all melee gribbly action in the trailer was these guys, the only time a classic Hormagaunt is visible is when the video cuts to the planet for the first time, when the Marine pulls the blade out of the dying one.
OG Hormagaunt (lower jaw with teeth, smooth skin on the lower jaw, armor plating all the way to the back of the skull, standard Tyranid eyes):
New kid on the block (lower jaw with no teeth, skin across the side of the lower jaw split into two sections, only two armor plates on the front half of the skull, no eyes or very deep socket):
Also short, stumpy tails and a totally different body carapace compared to the original. After the light touch they chose with the Termagant rework, I would be surprised if they went for a radical Hormagaunt redesign.
I looked at the video again- one of the lead charging gaunts has a big head crest- maybe a hive node? They definitely look more dog like- short and squat than hormagaunts - the bodies are more like stealers/hive guard. Interesting to see what the actual models will look like.
