Switch Theme:

Necron New 9th Edition Codex Tactica: All Hail The Silent King  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in gb
Ship's Officer



London

Cheers for the confirmation that the NB is just a lot more badass. I agree that the VD's model is far cooler though. I want to add more billowing cloak-type stuff to my Nightbringer, plus some lightning, to bring it up to that level. Will be a challenge.

The VD is also on a far larger base, which is a disadvantage. NB gets to sneak around on a 40mm one so it can fit in much smaller places.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





It can be argued that a larger base is an advantage for range of powers to the sides and behind. A Nightbringer's ideal targets are big expensive monsters, heavy elite infantry and characters whereas the VD's ideal targets are vehicles but is also pretty decent against monsters and elite infantry as well. You can make a case that as a faction we are worse at dealing with vehicles than elite infantry. Light tanks and transports are becoming a bigger part of the meta now so it's not a waste to bring one.

I prefer the VD for the versitility and being slightly harder to kill. Had difficulty building the model though
   
Made in gb
Deranged Necron Destroyer



UK, Midlands

The NB might be better against vehicles in combat anyway thanks to S14 and an extra attack, which is a shame.


   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

The issue between the two is the VD is meant to kill vehicles and the NB is meant to kill single model deadly things.
But the way they made the VD kill vehicles, the NB is just as good outside of the self-heal potentially tipping him over the threshold to require another full phase to kill. Which ive had happen, it sometimes makes people flatout ignore the VD.
That doesnt normally happen though, he needs to either be sitting at 5w when your turn begins for example or facing someone with multiple tiny vehicles (i.e. Orks or Admech really) and kill multiples in one go. Not something to plan on happening.

I think what they should have done is A) the VD's power should be D3+3 against vehicles not D6 mortals and B) NB's power should have reduced effect against vehicles. Cause right now they step on each other too much, and 3D3 mortals on a 4+ each is better than a 2+ check for a single D6 imo
Even in Melee, the VD basically bumps up to "slightly better" than the NB's normal strike. But lacks the invul killing part so its still inferior. Yeah vehicles usually dont have a melee invul but the more elite dreads often do.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/04/30 15:18:36


An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





I'd certainly be in favour of the VD (and Deceiver, and T.Ctan) getting a buff rather than the NB being nerfed against vehicles, considering they are all overpriced by around 50 points anyways IMO. But it's not going to happen for at least a few years
   
Made in gb
Deranged Necron Destroyer



UK, Midlands

I'm hoping we get a big points drop on the deceiver and a moderate one on the VD when the next points fix happens.
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer



London

I'd love to try out the Deceiver. It looks like you have to build an army around him though. Combining him with eternal expansionists you'd have enormous flexibility on deployment. He's also a great way to get 10 Lychguard into reserve to use the night scythe strat.
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

For sure theres a lot of shenanigans Deceiver can pull off, but not at his price.
Hopefully he gets a price cut in the future.

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in de
Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian






Germany

Has anyone given some thought about sentry pylons ? They arent bad for 100 pts.

http://wahapedia.ru/wh40k9ed/factions/necrons/Sentry-Pylon



   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





What loadout would you take? I'm not sure any of them are ideal

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
I'm hoping we get a big points drop on the deceiver and a moderate one on the VD when the next points fix happens.

Wonder when that will be. It seems like half our army could use a points reduction. Beyond Warriors, CCB, TSK and Chronomancers I don't see much that is truly cost effective

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/01 18:48:17


 
   
Made in us
Cold-Blooded Saurus Warrior






I'm a fan of the Death Ray, especially two for the cost of Doom Scythe; minus mobility, -1 to hit, and only 8 wounds. Seems like a fair enough trade.

My painting log is full of snakes
Have any retro, vintage, or out of print models? Show them off here!
Games I play: 40k (CSM, Necrons); AoS/Fantasy (Seraphon/Lizardmen); Warcry; Marvel Crisis Protocol; Wargods of Olympus/Aegyptus; Mythos 
   
Made in de
Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian






Germany

Cynista wrote:
What loadout would you take? I'm not sure any of them are ideal


Focussed death ray and gauss exterminator look good to me.
   
Made in dk
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker






A Doom Scythe fires 3 shots, 2 Sentry Pylons fire 2 shots. The Doom Scythe also has a twin tesla destructor and hasn't gotten any top 4s at a GT yet AFAIK, what makes Sentry Pylons worth it? The only viable artillery unit is Mek Gunz AFAIK, you get 2,5 smasha gun hits for every focussed death ray hit and 15 wounds distributed across 2,5 models instead of 8 on a single model, making the Sentry Pylon an easy kill for an Eradicator Squad.

The gauss exterminator has a role at least and doesn't cost more, while the heat cannon kicks a moderate amount of ass, it is also a lot more expensive relatively.

If you play on a board with a lot of terrain against a mobile enemy you'll be relegated to deep strike, otherwise you won't be able to see anything because of the immobility, while the Doomscythe can look for opportunities to snipe characters that aren't enveloped in dudes.

Comparing 1,4 death ray Pylons to a Doomstalker you don't get an invul, you get fewer wounds, 1 more Toughness, 25-30% less damage on average. I'd say the mobility is similar on the two units and the Doomstalker has the Guardian Construct ability and a twin gauss flayer in addition. All in all I'd say the death ray and heat cannon are terrible, the gauss exterminator is really bad but it has a little bit of play into Aircraft, they all need a 20-30 point reduction before they become competitive.

It won't be too long until I start testing FW, I might totally change my mind. At least the death ray isn't as big a joke as it was last edition.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





The Sentry Pylons aren't right for 9th edition.

They can't help you score primary, they can't help with action secondary or board supremacy secondaries. Taking them is essentially locking yourself into taking a kill secondary, and vs many list that's just not an option. (Consider your typical space marine list. If you table them, you get, say 9 for assassinate, 5 for thin the ranks, maybe 1 or 2 for bring it down?)

9th edition's big deal is obscuring terrain. The lists doing well are all highly mobile, so shooters can get around the sides of the terrain and fighters can get up and go through. Immovable arty just doesn't work right for that.

The stats/points balance on them isn't, like, awful, but it's not what it would need to be at to ignore the fact that they don't move. An annihilation barge or one of those praetorian spider walkers is a much better shooting platform.

All in all, fact is that Warhammer 40K has never been as balanced as it is now, and codex releases have never been as interesting as they are now (new units and vehicles and tons of new special rules/strategies each release -- not just the same old crap with a few changes in statlines and points costs).

-Therion
_______________________________________

New Codexia's Finest Hour - my fluff about the change between codexes, roughly novel length. 
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer



London

Are scarabs the solution to the Dark Eldar situation, or at least helpful? I was thinking it help work to essentially cram the mid board with 405 points worth of eternal expansionist scarabs in turn 0. Force the wyches and incubi to hack through them and then fire lots of gauss at whoever’s left alive. What do you reckon?
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





The DE infantry isn't a big problem for us, Warriors melt them and Flayed Ones trade fairly well, as would Scarabs in certain dynasties. The problem is the transports and I don't think we have a good answer to such a powerful, cheap and numerous unit

Regarding Sentry Pylons maybe they have use in move blocking, the base is quite big? Deep strike down and block off a lane between terrain
   
Made in dk
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker






Cynista wrote:
The DE infantry isn't a big problem for us, Warriors melt them and Flayed Ones trade fairly well, as would Scarabs in certain dynasties. The problem is the transports and I don't think we have a good answer to such a powerful, cheap and numerous unit

Regarding Sentry Pylons maybe they have use in move blocking, the base is quite big? Deep strike down and block off a lane between terrain

What melee units would you rather engage with a Sentry Pylon than a Ghost Ark? Ghost Ark go brrr.
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer



London

It seems to me that scarabs would do a far better job of move blocking than sentry pylons. I’m not sure what anyone hopes to achieve by deep striking pylons in agains DE. That’s far too late to block anything.

I agree the transports are the problem. Necrons do not have a solution to them. All our big guns are bad and/or static, so will never have LoS.

The point of the scarabs is to force the infantry out of their transports. Cover lots of the board in obsec bodies that are fast and fly, and which the enemy will struggle to shoot dead. Maybe bully the occasional backfield objective unit now and then, or self-destruct at enemy characters. Generally don’t let them play the game they want.
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





St. Louis, MO

Cynista wrote:
The DE infantry isn't a big problem for us, Warriors melt them and Flayed Ones trade fairly well, as would Scarabs in certain dynasties. The problem is the transports and I don't think we have a good answer to such a powerful, cheap and numerous unit


Tesla Destructors eat raiders. When used in combination with our meh dedicated anti-tank options, it does horrible things to Drukari. My last two games I removed 5 raiders and 3 raiders + a ravager respectively in the first turn. Bonus is TDs also do terrible things to Drukari infantry as well.

11,100 pts, 7,000 pts
++ Heed my words for I am the Herald and we are the footsteps of doom. Interlopers, do we name you. Defilers of our
sacred earth. We have awoken to your primative species and will not tolerate your presence. Ours is the way of logic,
of cold hard reason: your irrationality, your human disease has no place in the necrontyr. Flesh is weak.
Surrender to the machine incarnate. Surrender and die.
++

Tuagh wrote: If you won't use a wrench, it isn't the bolt's fault that your hammer is useless.
 
   
Made in at
Deranged Necron Destroyer





 Maelstrom808 wrote:
Cynista wrote:
The DE infantry isn't a big problem for us, Warriors melt them and Flayed Ones trade fairly well, as would Scarabs in certain dynasties. The problem is the transports and I don't think we have a good answer to such a powerful, cheap and numerous unit


Tesla Destructors eat raiders. When used in combination with our meh dedicated anti-tank options, it does horrible things to Drukari. My last two games I removed 5 raiders and 3 raiders + a ravager respectively in the first turn. Bonus is TDs also do terrible things to Drukari infantry as well.


Tesla Destructor does an average of just under 3 Wounds to a raider, 4 with Mephrite half range. The Annihilation Barge with Gauss Cannon and Mephrite Half Range is a bit over 5.
It's an useful tool, but you got incredibly lucky.
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer



London

I'm honestly baffled by the annihilation barge. A load of AP0 D1 shots don't seem to be at all what you want in 9th. I guess they'd be pretty useful against DE infantry, but obviously not against any kind of vehicle.

It looks to me like the best approach is to try and outscore the Primary, forcing the DE out of their paper planes. I don't know if that would work but I do know you can't reliably kill a load of raiders with tesla.
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





St. Louis, MO

As I said, in conjunction with our other anti tank. So DDAs, Stalkers, Doom Scythes, etc. depending on the build. Firing in the correct order is important as you hit with your large damage dedicated AT guns first to try and get spikes then clean up with a barge, shoot the next one with a dedicated AT, clean up with a barge, rinse and repeat. This also mean deploying well to set up your shots correctly.. Often a Doom Scythe will take one out all on its own. Pop a few of them and you have decent chances of getting an explosion which they are often bunched up because of trying to get behind cover. That adds a few more wounds to the mix. A well timed mephrit strat helps out as well.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/04 14:13:27


11,100 pts, 7,000 pts
++ Heed my words for I am the Herald and we are the footsteps of doom. Interlopers, do we name you. Defilers of our
sacred earth. We have awoken to your primative species and will not tolerate your presence. Ours is the way of logic,
of cold hard reason: your irrationality, your human disease has no place in the necrontyr. Flesh is weak.
Surrender to the machine incarnate. Surrender and die.
++

Tuagh wrote: If you won't use a wrench, it isn't the bolt's fault that your hammer is useless.
 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Mandragola wrote:
I'm honestly baffled by the annihilation barge. A load of AP0 D1 shots don't seem to be at all what you want in 9th. I guess they'd be pretty useful against DE infantry, but obviously not against any kind of vehicle.

It looks to me like the best approach is to try and outscore the Primary, forcing the DE out of their paper planes. I don't know if that would work but I do know you can't reliably kill a load of raiders with tesla.

Tesla bounces off especially against bikers.
DE infantry is vulnerable. But the transports are fast and often only need to survive for one turn to bring their load in close proximity to an appropriate target.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in us
Scouting Shadow Warrior



Longmont, Co

I understand there will be more raiders than doomscythes but that’s got to be our best option yeah? 2 doomscythes each pop a transport with their doom ray and they each shoot a third target with the Tesla, maybe you’ll get 3 transports round one, that should make a difference.

All of the things. Most of the time. 
   
Made in dk
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker






Cauthon wrote:
I understand there will be more raiders than doomscythes but that’s got to be our best option yeah? 2 doomscythes each pop a transport with their doom ray and they each shoot a third target with the Tesla, maybe you’ll get 3 transports round one, that should make a difference.

That's not how this works, that's not how any of this works.

You have to determine points efficiency and compare with alternative units and not just say "ah yeah that'll kill a unit" just because it fires 3 BIG DAMAGE shots.

A doomray does 5,56 damage to a Raider, a twin tesla destructor does 3,33 (4,44 if Mephrit is taking effect).

2 Doomscythes are unlikely to kill more than 1, let alone 3.
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





St. Louis, MO

While I agree that firing the Teslas off at another target is a mistake, by your own math, a Mephrit Doom Scythe kills exactly one raider on average.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/04 17:39:34


11,100 pts, 7,000 pts
++ Heed my words for I am the Herald and we are the footsteps of doom. Interlopers, do we name you. Defilers of our
sacred earth. We have awoken to your primative species and will not tolerate your presence. Ours is the way of logic,
of cold hard reason: your irrationality, your human disease has no place in the necrontyr. Flesh is weak.
Surrender to the machine incarnate. Surrender and die.
++

Tuagh wrote: If you won't use a wrench, it isn't the bolt's fault that your hammer is useless.
 
   
Made in dk
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker






 Maelstrom808 wrote:
While I agree that firing the Teslas off at another target is a mistake, by your own math, a Mephrit Doom Scythe kills exactly one raider on average.

Still unlikely to kill 2 (probably 30% chance) and 3 is never happening. Getting 2 Raiders low enough your ABs can pick them off? Super likely. I'm just trying to be realistic, I still haven't used a flyer in 9th.
   
Made in us
Scouting Shadow Warrior



Longmont, Co

 vict0988 wrote:
 Maelstrom808 wrote:
While I agree that firing the Teslas off at another target is a mistake, by your own math, a Mephrit Doom Scythe kills exactly one raider on average.

Still unlikely to kill 2 (probably 30% chance) and 3 is never happening. Getting 2 Raiders low enough your ABs can pick them off? Super likely. I'm just trying to be realistic, I still haven't used a flyer in 9th.


What else are you going to use that can do it better?

All of the things. Most of the time. 
   
Made in dk
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker






Cauthon wrote:
 vict0988 wrote:
 Maelstrom808 wrote:
While I agree that firing the Teslas off at another target is a mistake, by your own math, a Mephrit Doom Scythe kills exactly one raider on average.

Still unlikely to kill 2 (probably 30% chance) and 3 is never happening. Getting 2 Raiders low enough your ABs can pick them off? Super likely. I'm just trying to be realistic, I still haven't used a flyer in 9th.


What else are you going to use that can do it better?

Heavy Lokhust Destroyers, they'll kill one each in shooting and another one in melee. /s

You'll have to wait a month if you want me to math it out.
   
Made in us
Scouting Shadow Warrior



Longmont, Co

Heavy destroyers, in melee...lol

3 heavy destroyers put out 3 strength 10 shots for 6 damage.

1 doom scythe puts out 3 shots at strength 12 for 5 damage.

Doom scythe also has the Tesla.

Doom scythe is cheaper.

I don’t think your math is going to favor the heavy destroyers squads but I’ve been wrong before.

I’ll take the wounding on 2’s vs t6 and the mobility. Heavy destroyers degrade worse than doomscythes when you take into account the stellar alignment strat.

The heavy destroyers will also have a harder time having los. At -1 to be shot at and +1 toughness the doomscythe is at least as survivable as heavy destroyers. The heavy destroyers can hide but then how much work are they getting done?

How come I cant say doomscythes can kill raiders but you get to claim heavy destroyers can do it better? Where’s your points efficiency comparison?

I wasn’t expecting to kill three a turn, was a maybe, best case scenario, pie in the sky. If your doom ray comes up short then put the Tesla into that raider as well, obviously.

Otherwise raiders make almost as good a target for Tesla as anything, especially considering we don’t have many options to take them out and it needs to happen at long range to be worthwhile.

One doomscythe and a unit of heavy destroyers would probably be better than two of either but I’m personally not investing in heavy destroyers.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/04 21:58:08


All of the things. Most of the time. 
   
 
Forum Index » 40K Tactics
Go to: