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Made in us
Exalted Beastlord




 H.B.M.C. wrote:
50% of the way through this show and it still doesn't have a plot. The pacing is all over the place, and the laughable runtimes (scarcely 30m before you add in the 5+ minutes of exceptionally long credits) aren't helping.

Most of this episode was a chase sequence. That would be one of 4-5 set pieces in a single movie, yet this was a whole episode.


Almost exactly my reaction at the end. 'That was an episode?'
You can even see where they cut out dialogue. Butterscotch? Clint doesn't need explanation. Right hand minion's full name? They just know it. Back alley hearing aid repair... doctor? Just right there, not like anyone is just going to see them on the street... this time.

But hey, at least they didn't have spend any time on an investigation arc, the next bad guy is formally presenting the next piece of evidence.

trexmeyer wrote:The plot might not be any good and you might not like it, but there's clearly a plot.

Kate's plot: ruin mom's engagement.
Dog's plot: get fed and walked.
Clint's plot: stop being in this show.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/12/01 21:49:57


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in us
Prescient Cryptek of Eternity






Her uncle. I’m leaning away from it being Sword Guy because they’re making it so obvious it’s him without just showing us it’s him. I’m thinking Sword Guy is innocent of Armond’s murder and any general Tracksuit related crimes.

 
   
Made in us
Exalted Beastlord




 AduroT wrote:
Her uncle. I’m leaning away from it being Sword Guy because they’re making it so obvious it’s him without just showing us it’s him. I’m thinking Sword Guy is innocent of Armond’s murder and any general Tracksuit related crimes.


I agree with that logic, but also I don't think it matters. Its either him or an eleventh hour villain that they haven't even bothered to introduce. (or the mom, which is still just... whatever... as an idea).
Exactly who they beat up in a fight so Kate can be in the next Avenger's montage and Clint can avoid being in the next Avenger's montage isn't exactly important.
As far as the show is concerned, the only thing that really matters is wrapping the show so the next movie can happen with the right actors on the contracts. Which isn't particularly compelling.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
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Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

BrianDavion wrote:
I think I know who that is
Mephisto???

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"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Episode 3 down, perfectly enjoyable. Builds things up quite nicely.

However I must deduct points for using that Christmas music which is always used for chase scenes. I don’t know what it’s called, but it’s trope and it’s always irked me on an irrational level.


Wizards in Winter? That song is a blast.


   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






No, not that one.

That one is a bop!

The other one. The one that’s used in every trailer for every “wacky zany fun fun fun” family Christmas movie ever.

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Member of the Ethereal Council






Pretty enjoyable.
Im loving Clint, just very relatable of a guy just trying to get on with his life.
ALSO
KINGPIN!!!!!!
I know whose laugh that is!!!

5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Really liked this episode. Good character dynamics, fun action, not quite as long. I can definitely see where this was likely a movie at some point, as a few bits get dragged out longer than necessary.

A little at odds with the sound design. It felt like they weren't confident in how much "can't hear" disorientation they wanted and the big car chase really seemed to suffer for it. The sequence itself was great, but the sound felt more unfinished than meaningfully doing something with the hearing loss.
   
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Am I the only one who thinks that the dog is actually Odin?
   
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 Shadow Walker wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks that the dog is actually Odin?


Pizza Dog is from the comic this show pulls liberally from. On that note, I did quite like the "Trust a Bro!" slogan on the moving van.
   
Made in us
Exalted Beastlord




 LunarSol wrote:
Really liked this episode. Good character dynamics, fun action, not quite as long. I can definitely see where this was likely a movie at some point, as a few bits get dragged out longer than necessary.

A little at odds with the sound design. It felt like they weren't confident in how much "can't hear" disorientation they wanted and the big car chase really seemed to suffer for it. The sequence itself was great, but the sound felt more unfinished than meaningfully doing something with the hearing loss.


The whole episode suffered from that, even with the flashback history and the phone call of 'yanking on your heartstrings in the kitchen window sunbeam.' They obviously wanted the audience to feel alienation and isolation, but flinched away every single time. The camera work for the shots of Clint during the latter was really good though.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/02 16:00:16


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in pl
Tunneling Trygon





 LunarSol wrote:
 Shadow Walker wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks that the dog is actually Odin?


Pizza Dog is from the comic this show pulls liberally from.

Shame, it would be a nice twist, maybe leading to another show or crossover with Loki?
   
Made in us
Exalted Beastlord




This show is already leaning hard on all the characters existing on the same block of MCU street in NYC. Magically disguised unrelated characters also just hanging out there would take it from convenient to egregious.

Also, I can't se MCU Odin slumming it as a dog. Also, he'd better be actually dead, as it's the only excuse for being a crap dad and also dodging his responsibilities for Hela and Ragnorak.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in pl
Tunneling Trygon





Voss wrote:


Also, I can't se MCU Odin slumming it as a dog. Also, he'd better be actually dead, as it's the only excuse for being a crap dad and also dodging his responsibilities for Hela and Ragnorak.

He could be hiding for many reasons, one of them being slowly becoming monstrously powerful to fight something equally monstrously powerful, or simply being a threat to MCU himself. It could also be a different Odin, like we had more than one Loki.
   
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MN

To be fair, Marvel New York is pretty much everyone on the same block of MCU street. It is like that in the comics too.

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Exalted Beastlord




 Easy E wrote:
To be fair, Marvel New York is pretty much everyone on the same block of MCU street. It is like that in the comics too.


Eh. Yes and no. There was a time where they did crossover comics and cameos, but they usually had a hook (or were just background shots). Generally speaking Spiderman didn't turn up to X-men fights in the city, even though some of the big ones really should have brought attention from other characters (like the big brawl that killed Senator Kelly's wife, where most of a city block gets wrecked).

But its still one thing for these girls to be inspired by Clints big acts of heroism or villainy, but quite another for a god/alien to just be hanging about waiting for the plothook to the next series or movie.

Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
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Focused Dark Angels Land Raider Pilot



Wrexham, North Wales

Generally fun episode - although pretty much all about the car chase, and a bit of a set up for minor villain #756 to be after Ronin for killing her father. I agree about the sound - and not just because of the 'lost hearing aid' effect either - there was some quiet mumbling after the aid was repaired.

Bit of an abrupt ending too, but looking forward to next week's episode.
   
Made in pl
Tunneling Trygon





Voss wrote:


But its still one thing for these girls to be inspired by Clints big acts of heroism or villainy, but quite another for a god/alien to just be hanging about waiting for the plothook to the next series or movie.

What I meant would not impact the story in any way, it could simply be a post credits scene after last episode. Some fun revelation for the Hawkeye series, nothing more.
   
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Dominating Dominatrix






I am liking it all so far. I don't know Echo from the comics, but what I have read since her show was announced is potentially promising/good. Also now we have a backdoor introduction to the Kingpin and Daredevil in the MCU, which is just great.

Broadening out the MCU to have more depth without having to spell everything out with every new character getting their own series is a good thing imo.

I think Renner is nailing it. So far the themes are really heavily built around Hawkeye's PTSD/Survivors guilt and Kate's/the public's hero worship. The phone call scene with his kid when he can't actually hear him is just a great moment all around. It shows Hawkeyes connections, his sadness, his disappointment in not being able to be with his family, and it humanized him with Kate. Her hero worship is getting stamped down a little bit there.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/03 12:39:00



These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






It’s definitely showing the depth of Clint.

I mean, he survived the snap where various friends didn’t, and his family certainly didn’t. He went over the edge bonkers tonto mental, becoming Ronin. Then, returning to being a hero, he has to sacrifice his closest friend to save everyone else.

Out of all the Avengers left, he’s the least powered, the most human, and has had the roughest ride.

That’s a lot for a man to process, and now? Some kid has given the underworld the impression she is Ronin, and they’re out to get her.

Clint can’t simply own up to it and take his licks, because these people would probably go after his family as well - if not first.

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Wrexham, North Wales

 Lance845 wrote:
I am liking it all so far. I don't know Echo from the comics, but what I have read since her show was announced is potentially promising/good. Also now we have a backdoor introduction to the Kingpin and Daredevil in the MCU, which is just great.


This organised crime lieutenant of moronic thugs is getting her own tv show? I had her down as another Karli - dead and forgotten by the end of the series.
   
Made in us
Prescient Cryptek of Eternity






I know very little about Echo. Had never even heard of her until she just Very recently claimed the Phoenix Force and joined the Avengers, prompting me to give a quick summery reading of her bio and finding out she’s a Dare Devil character, which is not a series I’ve read any of.

 
   
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She's always been relatively minor. I mostly remember her because she was the original Ronin back when that was a big mystery in Bendis's New Avengers. That arc doesn't really help me understand her character much though, since Bendis seemed to be writing Ronin as Daredevil until the internet guessed it, but its hard to say for sure.
   
Made in us
Dominating Dominatrix






Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:It’s definitely showing the depth of Clint.

I mean, he survived the snap where various friends didn’t, and his family certainly didn’t. He went over the edge bonkers tonto mental, becoming Ronin. Then, returning to being a hero, he has to sacrifice his closest friend to save everyone else.

Out of all the Avengers left, he’s the least powered, the most human, and has had the roughest ride.

That’s a lot for a man to process, and now? Some kid has given the underworld the impression she is Ronin, and they’re out to get her.

Clint can’t simply own up to it and take his licks, because these people would probably go after his family as well - if not first.


Yeah it's pretty great. He is also the second (maybe 3rd if you count Thor during parts of his journey) character we have seen become basically suicidal. His stint as Ronin was a cry of Death by Vigilante. He went out there looking to take as many people with him as possible after losing his family and friends. The first being Tony Stark. Until Endgame when he had a daughter, he was a man who knew he was dead from the moment Yinsen died. He says it himself in the first movie. "I shouldn't be here. I should be dead." He spends the next 3 movies throwing himself into danger and making the sacrifice play over and over again.

That was Clint as Ronin. Except now his family is back and he is still processing all that loss.

MarkNorfolk wrote:
 Lance845 wrote:
I am liking it all so far. I don't know Echo from the comics, but what I have read since her show was announced is potentially promising/good. Also now we have a backdoor introduction to the Kingpin and Daredevil in the MCU, which is just great.


This organised crime lieutenant of moronic thugs is getting her own tv show? I had her down as another Karli - dead and forgotten by the end of the series.


If it's at all like the comics, the guy in the black suit that we only ever really see his hand (when she is a kid in the martial arts tourney he pinches her cheek and chuckles) is Kingpin. Supposedly the chuckle matches up with Netflix Daredevils Vincent D'onofrio's Kingpin along with the black suits he was wearing pre Vanessa. And yes, getting her own show.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/04 11:59:27



These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
 
   
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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
I think I know who that is
Mephisto???


yes it's gotta be mephestio.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Exalted Beastlord




Kate's mom and Jack- these people make me wildly uncomfortable. Ditch the superhero crap for a moment, just...

psychoanalyzing your daughter with the new fiance that she hates while she's on the couch five feet away, then indulging in an extended flirting session? Who does that?

The constant swing from angst to absolute cringe is just killing this show for me. Also Kate swinging from competent to dumb as a brick.
Spoiler:
'Hey, totally friend of a superhero here, ignore that I'm armed and I'm openly asking for evidence tampering.' How does this lead to a party and not... jail?


---
So, OK, I get how the new character got called in. But I'm guessing we're not going to get an explanation for why they'd be at _that_ specific random rooftop.

Anyway, our heroes have all three MacGuffins, they've had their third act fight, so... hostages, crumpets and reconciliation?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/08 18:41:00


Efficiency is the highest virtue. 
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

We already know why she's in the rooftop, we were told in the movie she was introduced in. As for how an über trained operative located one of the most famous men on the planet making no real effort to hide his identity or location, do we really need that explained?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/09 02:52:44


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So the Watch is something extra important after all. Quite important indeed if upon realizing stuff survived the compound they went near straight to What about the Watch? Did it survive? Better check the beacon. That it has a tracker beacon on it he has access to even. Before I was able to just write it off as a random hook, but now I’m curious.

 
   
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 Azreal13 wrote:
We already know why she's in the rooftop, we were told in the movie she was introduced in. As for how an über trained operative located one of the most famous men on the planet making no real effort to hide his identity or location, do we really need that explained?



No, it makes perfect sense.

Half the fun of this thread is reading the hot takes from Voss and watching them collapse as more episodes come out.
   
Made in us
Exalted Beastlord




 Azreal13 wrote:
We already know why she's in the rooftop, we were told in the movie she was introduced in. As for how an über trained operative located one of the most famous men on the planet making no real effort to hide his identity or location, do we really need that explained?



It'd be nice if the things I'm mocking the series for didn't get played out again and again, yeah.
It doesn't so much need an explanation as it'd be nice if someone in the entire series was shown actually putting in the work, rather than just showing up at the next scene or location with script in hand.

In theory, Hawkeye is one of the more grounded supers, that has to do everything the hard way. Except in this show everything he (or his foes) needs is simply gift wrapped and given:

Where's macguffin X and person of interest? Oh, here on this street ---> I really want someone to try this in NYC, by the way. Just pick a random person who lives in the city, that you know nothing about where they live and what they do, you know their outfit just because they happened to walk through an evening news shot, and just walk around until you run into them. Good luck.

Need to get captured? Just hang out on the street until villains show up. Need to get an ear piece fixed? Just hang out on the street and villains won't show up. Need to talk to one? Go to their listed place of business and no one will notice.

Macguffin #2? Oh, villain guy literally holds it out. Is he a villain? One name check, and.. yep. They offhand know the company is a laundering front, but not the guy in charge. That requires a whole text.

Macguffin #3? Oh, locator chip. We didn't know it was stolen, but... tadah! Here it is. How many other things are out there that they should just ping to find?

Trick arrows? Cops have a bag in evidence. Random college student can just... ask for evidence tampering. Openly. And they hand deliver them, to a random apartment. To the college kid (who doesn't live there) who's avoiding a police investigation (that's not 100% unlikely because it could be a different unit in a different precinct, but still).

Its just pure nonsense from beginning to end.
There could be something here, but the random flailing, cringe, and plot contrivances are burying the interesting bits.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/12/10 03:41:13


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