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I'm looking for some list-building advice.

I'm entering in my first WM/Hordes tourney, after playing 3 battle-box games and one 500 point game with my Menoth.  Unfortunately this is a 500 pt Prime/Primal only tourney (SR3 format), which means I can't use my favourite warcaster Feora.

Here are the Prime models I have:

Painted:
Kreoss
Repenter
Revenger
Crusader
Paladin of the Wall
8 TFG

Unpainted:
10 Zealots
2 Choir Priests and 8 Acolytes
Vanquisher
Redeemer
a 2nd Revenger

I'd like to use as many of my painted models as is reasonable, but still make 2 decent lists.  Another MAJOR concern is model count - my only 500-pt game took me 3 hours to play.  Mind you, I had 25 infantry in addition to my battlegroup for that.  The tourney games are supposed to take 1 1/2 hrs tops.

So I'm thinking of making a couple of four-jack lists with Kreoss, and minimal infantry.

With 4 jacks and 2 choirs, I could have 2 pairs of differently-abled warjacks running around, possibly with an arcnode each.

I haven't played Steamroller scenarios before though - I know I need 2 lists to handle different types of missions, but I'm not sure exactly what.  Perhaps one list that can hold one objective while assaulting another, and a second one that's more a roll-over-and-smackdown list?  I realize I should have a second caster, but the only Prime caster I own is Kreoss.  I suppose I could pick up Severius and sub him in a double-Revenger list, but I've never played with him before.

Anyways, please critique my lists and give me some advice on what to take to the tourney this weekend!  Keeping in mind the models I've got - I can't go out and buy 2 more Redeemers and max Deliverer's for a drop&pop assassination list.

LIST 1
Kreoss
Vanquisher
Crusader
Revenger
Revenger
Choir
Choir
6 Zealots


LIST2
Kreoss
Crusader
Repenter
Revenger
Redeemer
Choir
Choir
Paladin
6 TFG

LIST3
Kreoss
Vanquisher
Redeemer
Revenger
Repenter or 2nd Revenger
min Choir
min Choir
6 TFG

None of these lists come out to full 500, so I could easily sub in a Paladin for a Choir in Lists 1 and 3.  I really like the Paladin for holding objectives, he's so cheap!  But I don't know if one choir is enough for 4 jacks...

Any advice would be appreciated, thanks in advance!

Pick up Vilmon- he's sick. He also helps your paldins out! Also, a monolith bearer adds alot to your Zealots.

2 Revengers is probably overkill, but at least 1 redeemer is great with Kreoss- two can be devastating with his feat.

TFG really need the UA and/or Rupert to do much.

Also, don't overlook Eiryss- she's really nasty. Not only for assassination (pop Kreoss's feat, disrupt w/Eiryss, shell with redeemer) but also for picking off leaders and the like.

SR scenarios often require both mobility and staying power.

2 Revengers is good with Severius, or possibly Amon (Synergy charges)

I feel like you'd need either the UA for the TFG in your lists OR more models
to keep them on the table.

Four jack loadouts with Kreoss is tough. I can see three as being
manageable, but without Wracks, a Reclaimer or The Avatar, you're
going to be making tough decisions every turn.

But if you were to run four jacks (I've done it myself...it's fun!), then
two choirs is the way to go.

Kreoss is not a great jack caster; you will have trouble running a jack heavy list with him.

Typically he's got 2-4 upkeeps going which just doesn't give him the focus needed to run lots of Jacks.

After not using him at all during the spring league, I busted out Sevvy for the last day and was pleasantly surprised:

Severius
Revenger x2
Flameguard x10 +UA
Choir x6
Seneschall x2
Paladin of the Wall x2
Vilmon

This turned out to be fairly decent, as the flameguard provided a ridiculously durable bulwark for my more mobile (but less durable) solos (and to an extent... my jacks).

This can be back-adapted to Prime by replacing parts which have like-minded purposes.

Vilmon and the two PotW can be replaced by a unit of Zealots (or Deliverers).

Instead of the Seneschals, you might consider a Crusader.
Finally, with the leftover points that would have gone to the Flameguard UA, you could add Eyriss.

This leaves you with two arc nodes, a smashy heavy jack... mobile firebombers, a mobile shieldwalling unit, eyriss and a choir to sing no shooty/spelly or butt-kickery.

Eye of Menoth/ Infuse basically makes your jacks into MAT6/8 Juggernauts, leaving precious focus for Severius.

Holy Vigil makes the Flameguard crazy durable, with a ridiculous DEF17 or DEF19 vs charges and slams on top of the ARM 18 from shieldwalling.

Thanks for all the tips guys!  Especially Keezus, the only one who picked out the "Prime Only" part.  I'd love to take the Monolith Bearer, Vilmon, Flameguard UA etc.  And Feora, my favourite caster.  But sadly, not this weekend.

I've reconsidered the two choir thing for several reasons:  I'm trying for a low model count army so that I can finish my rounds without pissing off my opponent (since I'm such a noob), and because it would be hard to shield so many squishy bodies.

So here goes:

List 1 (assassination)
Severius, 2 Revengers, Crusader, Vanquisher, min Choir, Paladin, min Zealots

The idea is to push up the middle with the two heavies in the center shielding the Zealots and Choir, keeping Sevy back with a Paladin guarding him.  Revengers flank for arcing goodness.  Heavies part and let loose the Zealots at an opportune moment (possibly after a Death Sentence...). Sevy can run, feat and still cast spells when he needs to.  Hopefully a few Incinerate and Ashes to Ashes via Arc Node will encourage my opponent to get too close to my center power group while trying to get Sevy.

List 2 (objectives)

Kreoss, Crusader, Revenger, Repenter, Redeemer, Full Choir, Paladin, 8 TFG

Split into two groups to take and hold objectives:  1)  TFG (with POM upkept) and the Revenger; 2) Crusader, Repenter, Choir, Kreoss.  The Redeemer and Paladin hang back to guard a backfield objective.  Kreoss can arc spells to help the TFG+Revenger, but stays close to the main beatsticks.  Each group has an antiinfantry and an antijack element.

Another option (for fewer objectives) is to use the POM'd TFG to protect the Choir, which beefs most of the jacks (Revenger, Repenter, Crusader).  Keep Kreoss back with the Paladin and the Redeemer.  Possibly have the Paladin run into melee, POM it and then charge it with Kreoss in order to get close enough to pull a surprise feat turn.  The Paladin can then go into Stone and Mortar and still whale away on the model that gets up in front of him.

 

I highly recommend that you read the steamroller scenarios.  Most of them focus on hitting the middle of the board, or crossing it.

Needless to say, Cryx with their SPD7 bonies and Khador with their "half my army advance deploys" will be king.  Prime POM is at an inherent disadvantage due to their supreme slowness...  especially if you go second.  (Going first evens things out a little) - I see two ways of dealing with this.

1.  Pick dudes that can run fast.  Unfortunately, in Prime, this restricts you to:

SPD6 - Zealots, TFG and PotW.  Everyone else has SPD5.  Over two turns, this is 4" difference, which makes a huge difference when it comes to board position, especially if you were forced to go second.  Menite heavies, at SPD4 are painfully slow, and can't contest objectives due to their lack of mobility.  Unfortunately, the choir does everything except make these guys move faster!

The Vanquisher might be a better choice between the two you have available, since it might be able to shoot something off an objective, but with a threat range of 20" on turn 2 (run 8, walk 4, shoot 8), it might end up doing nothing as well.

Eyriss is a must, since she's the only damn thing you can take that has advance deploy...  That and she can snipe enemy unit leaders with her phantom seeker to keep them from running!

2.  Pick dudes that can obliterate enemy guys that are fast / can advance deploy or are on the objective(s).  Since the missions usually don't check for win condition until the second round, you have a chance to smite them with ranged firepower.  Due to Menoth's extremely poor ranged accuracy, the only consistent way to do this is by using Kreoss and loads of skyhammers.

Severius can thin the herd a bit through judicious use of ashes to ashes, but you need to be lucky.

Silent Bob is too slow for straight Prime SRs... without advance deploy squaddies in the later books, he's just too slow...  :-(

====================================================

Granted, this is just my experience, and YMMV.

Hmmm...that's a problem. I can't just go out and buy a whole new list before Saturday unfortunately.

I do have a Paladin in each list, and either TFG or Zealots. I was hoping not to just wing them out on their lonesome though...

I suppose if the Paly runs first, he can then park on an objective in Stone and Mortar. If he survives his post-run turn.

Perhaps I will pick up Eiryss then. I assume Rhupert is not from Prime...

'k, I just bought Eiryss and Severius.  Eiryss is hella cool, I have to say.  Certainly brings something unique to a Menite army.  I will probably have to cut a jack from each list to fit her in though

 I checked out the SR3 scenarios. 

It's true that alomst half are very movement-dependent. Pendulum and Divide and Conquer require one to cross the center line before the end of turn 2, and Killing Fields requires one to get to the center line.  But frankly, even a heavy jack can run 8" and charge 7" (=15"+10" deploy; over the center line) or run-run. 

In Mosh Pit, the center 20" circle is only 4" from your deployment zone edge! In No Man's Land, you only need to get within 5" of the center line, so only 9" from your deployment zone.  A turn-1 run will get a heavy only 1" away.

Assassins and Invasion are pretty straightforward and don't involve run-or-lose.

I guess I'll have to wait until I play them, but I can't see that it's going to be a huge problem...even my slowest things can make it to where they need to be by running on turn 1, and running or charging an available target on turn 2.  My light jacks and infantry can stroll after a turn-1 run.

I suppose if I get tarpitted by advance deploy troops it could be an issue...but heavies can trample