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I actually considered that as well - CP cost is much lower, but the units don't regenerate (though they can be repaired as always), and the Lucius relic lets the Warlord or whomever bop about as they DS even if he's one of my 50% on the board.

My list composition would probably be 3 max-size units of servitors plus two HQs of some kind, then fill the rest with Imperial Guard or something. I only really like the Servitors so bringing other units just for filler is bleh.

3 10-man (?) units is probably too many anyways

Next question: breachers or destroyers? Destroyers seem ace, while breachers are bupkis, but 3 attacks instead of 2 plus access to real CC weapons means they make up for that failure in shooting with real CC threat, at least it seems to me.

So, trying to get away from the Mars+Cawl mold, here's a new list I've worked out for semi-competitive games. I have some limitations here based on the bits I have access to (Skitarii loadouts are limited by what I own as well as the number of say the Electropriest unit as I only have 9 Thallax I'm using to proxy them)

Detachment 1: Battalion (Forgeworld Lucius. Ap-1 becomes AP0, Unique Stratagem 1cp to give any unit standard Deep Strike, can be used any number of times.)

HQ: Techpriest Dominus, Eradication Ray and Macrostubber, Solar Flare relic (Allows you to pick him up and deploy him via standard deep strike once per game)

HQ: Techpriest Enginseer

Troops: 5x Skitarii Rangers, 2x Arc Rifles, Arc Pistol+Taser Goad alpha

Troops: 10x Skitarii Vanguard, 2x Plasma Calivers, Phosphor Blast Pistol+Arc Maul Alpha

Troops: 10x Skitarii Vanguard, 2x Arc Rifles, Arc Pistol+Power Sword Alpha

Elites: 9x Corpuscarii Electropriests

Detachment 2: Battalion (Forgeworld Stygies VIII, shooting attacks from 12" or more are -1 to hit, unique Stratagem allows a unit to deploy 9" or more away from the enemy before the first turn)

HQ: Techpriest Dominus, Volkite Blaster and Macrostubber

HQ: Techpriest Enginseer

Troops: 8x Skitarii Rangers, 2x Transuranic Arquebi

Troops: Kataphron Breachers, arc rifles and arc claws

Troops: Kataphron Destroyers, Grav Cannons and Phosphor Blasters

Elites: 5x Sicarian Infiltrators, Taser Goads and Flechette Blasters

Fast Attack: 3x Sydonian Dragoons, Taser Lances and Phosphor Serpentas

Heavy Support: Onager Dunecrawler, 2x Stubbers and Neutron Laser

Heavy Support: Onager Dunecrawler, 2x Stubbers and Neutron Laser

Heavy Support: 2x Kastelan Robots, triple Phosphor Blaster

The idea is I have flexibility in what I want to deep strike/sneak strike and I'll be planning on spending most of my 9cp turn 1 on things like Doctrina Conqueror, Doctrina Dakkadakka, Swap Robots to Shootmode, and deep strike/sneak strike. If I face heavy skew either in the infantry direction or tank direction, I spend my CPs to strike in the specialist units meant to kill that type, and hopefully deal a pretty hefty blow turn 1 to allow the solid Stygies gunline with the Lucius screen just sacrificing itself to carry the game home.

After two weeks of testing I can only validate the same results.

Maybe if you play 10*10 vanguard you might feel hordish but you are not since any any even guard that will charge you you loose. You don't have any combo. Cc horde will come with hq +1 attack run charge or survive enough to charge etc etc.

If you make a guard battalion 30 bodies and get them Catachans and add a priest etc they can move move attack dice numbers or make them pew pew etc. Your superior vang die from a breeze.

If your looking for horde armies don't play ad mech. Imo.

On to other results. My Dragoons swept tables and tables what a unit. From orcs till d eldar troops to vehicles . What a unit. Outrider stygies two balistarii 4 Dragoons what great games . I could easily do them even more.2*4 or even 3*4 . Extremely good but so far I'm fine with 6 of them.
Stygies breachers superb can't shoot but will hold their ground till the end . Or till enemy decides to waste good shots on them. Can't die from small arms ! I use them from now on.
Dominus dominus and dominus won't use enginseer again. Enginseer is a tax trash the end. Dominus with eradication warlord or with a relic can heal buff etc. Better than the trash...
Infiltrators unless I play solo Mars not even close to good.
Priests v v good. Hard to play but cheap and can be a force. If played right can be a force enemy can't ignore and cheap.

No Robots no fun. 2* neutron stygies 2* Icarus Mars seems to be the best for me now and current meta. Ofc 4+ Robots. I use 4 cause I like options and 4 are enough.
If only got 3 onagers 2-1 or 3 neutron depending on list.

Lasc balistarii won games for me. After game passed 3 rounds fast alive units become extremely valuable . 2d6 adv and then shoot even 5+ is extreme in round 4+ in any game. And their 10" move ensures stygies -1 hit is there.

Rust trash. Troop upgrades special weapons etc waste of points.

I'm ad mech and my heavy vehicle lists seems to bring problems to my enemies.

Battalions

Dominus
Enginseer

Breacher
Ranger
Vang.

Seems valid and all options in list. Cawl Robots Onagers ironstriders priest rock in any combination your playstyle likes.

Have fun

Has someone tried out a mix of Guard/AdMech horde?

Against shooty:

- advance guard with move order so your opponent can't ignore them
- your vanguard are in the second line bringing the pain


Against CC:

- use those guardsmen to eat the first charges


Just brainstorming here, but maybe that's worth a try.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also another question:

How much Guard screen are you actually putting in your competitive lists?

 Verviedi wrote:
Quick tip, use superglue for standard building, but use multiple thin coats of plastic glue for your robe seams, and file them down. Plastic glue will melt the plastic and help make the seam less awful. Liquid green stuff kinda sucks in my experience.

Super glue > plastic glue. I use the Gorilla Glue brand super glue. It dries quickly, but not instantly and is not watery.

I find Liquid Green Stuff useful for adding texture to things for stuff like muddy boots and robes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Spera wrote:
Or Stygies and lucius. DS and infiltrating them so you avoid Alpha Strike is half success and they bring nice defensive stats with ignore ap1 and -1 to hit.

Unfortunately, you can't dodge alpha strike with the Stygies stratagem. But you do get to move before you charge.

My competitive lines have transformed into guard maxed out deployed . Behind them vanguard 5 man stock . And breachers or rangers third line with -1 to get hit. Same on the other 2-3 sides or an arrow Head. So it's 30 infantry 3*10 guard with a commander in a midish area for orders on all 3 units. Etc.
Rangers I try to get them snipers in my back field screener back row of points allow. Seems to be working fine. Breachers hold vs orcs for me so seems valid. If more shooting comes along then again their usage remains. If I face even more agreesive cc enemy Dragoons line up as well so it would look like guards men in z shape defence breachers front Dragoons sides behind guard infantry and snipers rangers as back up field side deep strike deny. So far this seems the most valid options.

1*3 breachers
2*5 vanguard
1*5 sniprangers

For me and my playstyle when I want dakka wall. But I don't use more than 4 robots 3-5 Dragoons 3-4 Onagers and I take dominus not enginseer if possible. That enginseer suck. Badly tax tax. While my 1-2 dominus act as cc units making breachers or Dragoons supplement. Healers in lines etc. And warlord even find Cawl there.

I'm starting to abandon the guard strat with company commanders etc! Our 6+ relic works in both enemy and ours command points and It seems my lists can work with out soup.

Start picking up canticles for your fights . Use them wisely roll later on. Unless you play solo Mars.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
More and more I see a pattern for ad mech design to go second. Invest in toughness good saves rolls etc. More and more I don't like guard easy killed etc. Seems like we can make some smart combinations . And after the recent changes I don't consider guard giving me enough tools. While I can work better with dogmas . Seems like for me and how I play . Reduced troops to min. Start using better deployment started to use dominus to split forces and play second . Deploy in the back line for the table move shoot use all los buildings etc. Don't need bs 4+ don't need 10 wounds 5+ or simply put I prefer the setup I said. It has started to work for me and I prefer it if possible to single ad mech lists. A bs 4+ 108 point basilisk does not make me go crazy atm.

Sounds like an interesting concept Yoda.

Yeah 30 Guardsman are really dying in less then one shooting phase^^

But a 3 man breacher squad can withstand a Ork charge? You sure about that? Seems a litte bit hard to believe ^^

Someone who wants to remove 30 Guardsmen in one turn can also remove 15 Skitarii. I think the purpose of troops is well-served in either case.

The best protection is distance. Deploying as far away from your opponent is always your greatest advantage. It's also why I prefer Guard: 48" heavy weapons, which let you hit the enemy from afar without going into lasgun range. Basilisks are interesting because they are counter-artillery and great backfield campers.

Suzuteo wrote:
Someone who wants to remove 30 Guardsmen in one turn can also remove 15 Skitarii. I think the purpose of troops is well-served in either case.

The best protection is distance. Deploying as far away from your opponent is always your greatest advantage. It's also why I prefer Guard: 48" heavy weapons, which let you hit the enemy from afar without going into lasgun range. Basilisks are interesting because they are counter-artillery and great backfield campers.

This also means creating distance. This means having a fodder unit to act as an infiltrator/deep strike buffer. I learned that the hard way once via Da Jump and having to fend off 30 Boyz that, thankfully, didn't chew through my Fulgurites (somehow) fast enough to get into my Robots (good spacing helped). Ever since, making sure I leave opponents with deployment shenanigans as little room/options as possible is paramount. Every turn we are not shooting, we are losing.

I have been thinking hard about cheap guard brigades and synergies with admech. I think there are massive synergies between a basilisk/mortar CADIA brigade and a plasma stacked LUCIUS battalion. Imagine this deployment, I put down my 5+/Relic of Cadia WL down first. Then my next 7 drops are LUCIUS 1CP deepstrikes. RAW I get the 5+ refund because 'while your warlord is on the battlefield' and he is on the battlefield. I start with 15 CP base, and spend 7 with 2 refunded. That puts me at 10 CP to start the game (with more refunds) and with 7 admech units in deepstrike reserve. Also, enhanced data tether is now 5 points and is an easy source of +2 to hit on one of my plasma teams. I think this list could be a meta buster because no one really prepares for mass infantry, and when they do they do it with -1 weapons (which LUCIUS ignores). And now that infiltrators are 22 points a piece, I think they have a role to play as 220 points that generate 50 wrath of mars shots (this is actually more efficient than the robots). This list would have the CP to spend the +1 hit modifier and WRATH OF MARS every turn. I can also Overlapping Fields of FIre hard targets when necessary. Only the Enginseer starts on the board and hey, what do you know, he can fix the basilisks if they have wounds and I have the CP to double fix them if needed.

EDIT: the extra vanguard squad and the infiltrators could be turned into a LUCIUS/STYGIES 4x1 dragoon squad. That would take some pressure off the shooting phase and give me a melee threat and a +1 leadership bubble for the troops.

CADIA + LUCIUS



EDIT2: I actually think just LUCIUS and CADIA is better


CADIA + LUCIUS + MARS

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

Suzuteo wrote:
Someone who wants to remove 30 Guardsmen in one turn can also remove 15 Skitarii. I think the purpose of troops is well-served in either case.

The best protection is distance. Deploying as far away from your opponent is always your greatest advantage. It's also why I prefer Guard: 48" heavy weapons, which let you hit the enemy from afar without going into lasgun range. Basilisks are interesting because they are counter-artillery and great backfield campers.

This also means creating distance. This means having a fodder unit to act as an infiltrator/deep strike buffer. I learned that the hard way once via Da Jump and having to fend off 30 Boyz that, thankfully, didn't chew through my Fulgurites (somehow) fast enough to get into my Robots (good spacing helped). Ever since, making sure I leave opponents with deployment shenanigans as little room/options as possible is paramount. Every turn we are not shooting, we are losing.

Yup. Which is also why the Goondozer unit and Crawler scoot-and-shoot is useful as well.

Wulfey wrote:
I have been thinking hard about cheap guard brigades and synergies with admech. I think there are massive synergies between a basilisk/mortar CADIA brigade and a plasma stacked LUCIUS battalion. Imagine this deployment, I put down my 5+/Relic of Cadia WL down first. Then my next 7 drops are LUCIUS 1CP deepstrikes. RAW I get the 5+ refund because 'while your warlord is on the battlefield' and he is on the battlefield. I start with 15 CP base, and spend 7 with 2 refunded. That puts me at 10 CP to start the game (with more refunds) and with 7 admech units in deepstrike reserve. Also, enhanced data tether is now 5 points and is an easy source of +2 to hit on one of my plasma teams. I think this list could be a meta buster because no one really prepares for mass infantry, and when they do they do it with -1 weapons (which LUCIUS ignores). And now that infiltrators are 22 points a piece, I think they have a role to play as 220 points that generate 50 wrath of mars shots (this is actually more efficient than the robots). This list would have the CP to spend the +1 hit modifier and WRATH OF MARS every turn. I can also Overlapping Fields of FIre hard targets when necessary. Only the Enginseer starts on the board and hey, what do you know, he can fix the basilisks if they have wounds and I have the CP to double fix them if needed.

EDIT: the extra vanguard squad and the infiltrators could be turned into a LUCIUS/STYGIES 4x1 dragoon squad. That would take some pressure off the shooting phase and give me a melee threat and a +1 leadership bubble for the troops.

CADIA + LUCIUS + MARS

Spoiler:

LUCIUS
TPD - 127
Enginseer - 47
10Vanguard 3P/Omni - 80 - 42 - 7
10Vanguard 3P/Tether - 80 - 42 - 5
10Ranger 3P/Omni - 70 - 42 - 7
10Ranger 3P/Tether - 70 - 42 - 5
10Vanguard - 80

MARS (-1 auxiliary)
10 Taser infiltrators - 220 [16+4+2 a piece]

CADIA budget Brigade
3x Commanders (orders and WLT and relic holders) - 90
3x Astropaths (still good at 30 points) - 90
3x Flamer scout sentinels (space out enemy deepstrikes, make space for my guys) - 162
6x Guardsmen (1 mortar per) - 270
3x Basilisks - 324
3x Mortar Teams (hide with commanders, get full reroll hit orders) - 99

This is a much more likely horde army, but how do you plan on resolving the CC problem? Horde armies work because they can absorb losses and get into CC, usually while the artillery sits pretty. Aside from your HQs, none of your guys even have a real melee weapon, pistol, or way to handle that moment when Boyz or Genestealers just charge straight into you.

I have 60 guardsmen as a screen. The idea would be that they hit the screen, what lives falls back, and then the deep strike and artillery come in and clear out the entire midfield. A tooled up skitarii squad should drop 10-15 boys/genestealers a turn and I am whoring mortars proper. I put up a second list which I think is superior that includes a 4 Dragoon goondozer specifically to shore up the melee weakness. I want to run admech, but if I was less admech inclined then a 6 strong Bullgryn squad for 252 points would do the same job as the dragoons. EDIT: bullgryns with a priest put out ~35 str7, -1, 2dam swings at 3+ on the charge [21 expected hits]. A goondozer does something like 22 expected hits (~30 if you are rerolling 1s). I think the bullgryns are tougher overall and can similarly 'deep strike' using the dagger of tallarn.

So you're basically saying your entire army needs to commit to handling the "clash of screens." That is a tough sell if you put yourself in the shoes of another player. I mean, take Orks as an example. I will likely have 9 Kannons and a squadron of Dakkajets. I see that my Boyz can jump right into the enemy line, which forces you to shoot them. However, I won't have to worry about shooting Skitarii with my heavy weapons; I will be shooting your Mortars. In the end, I will lose most of my screen, you will lose most of your artillery, and your screen is either stuck in CC that they cannot win or falling back. Sounds like I have a huge edge in the coming battles.

Furthermore, after you fall back, how do you handle Da Jump + Ere We Go or Hormagaunt's ability to move 8" and consolidate 6"?

Suzuteo wrote:
So you're basically saying your entire army needs to commit to handling the "clash of screens." That is a tough sell if you put yourself in the shoes of another player. I mean, take Orks as an example. I will likely have 9 Kannons and a squadron of Dakkajets. I see that my Boyz can jump right into the enemy line, which forces you to shoot them. However, I won't have to worry about shooting Skitarii with my heavy weapons; I will be shooting your Mortars. In the end, I will lose most of my screen, you will lose most of your artillery, and your screen is either stuck in CC that they cannot win or falling back. Sounds like I have a huge edge in the coming battles.

Furthermore, after you fall back, how do you handle Da Jump + Ere We Go or Hormagaunt's ability to move 8" and consolidate 6"?

I think the 60 guardsmen and 40 skitarii combo is about as much dakka as an IMPERIUM list can possibly generate. Against a true melee horde army (mass guants, mass boys, mass genestealers), they won't be able to consolidate into the basilisks if I place the 60 guardsmen right, and the 40 skitarii are guaranteed to get a round of shooting off thanks to deepstrike. Yeah, I can't keep the mortar teams up against Kannons, but I have basilisks to return fire against the Kannons. The real debate here is whether 40 skitarii + TPD + 4x is better than 5 robots + Cawl. The robots can consistently drop 50 boys a turn when they get fed strategems. I think my 40 skitarii can drop a comparable amount but can play to the mission and pick at cagey opponents in a much stronger way. If my opponent has an answer to 5 robots + cawl, I just lose. I think 40 skitarii + TPD + 4x mortars is more flexible, and better even against the horde armies. EDIT: every imaginable 5x robot list has less screen than the 60+40 list, and the robots list autoloses as soon as something consolidates into the robots.

The points that used to be onagers is now the CADIA brigade, which sucks. Onagers really are great tanks point for point, but again, against a horde army I would rather have the brigade of shooting and rely on my skitariis to knock off the hard targets. The Onagers really kicked ass against hard targets hiding on the other side of the board behind a building and behind a screen. My list will struggle with a castle opponent because I don't have Onagers.

EDIT: Adding 1 neutron Onager would cost me pretty much all my mortars. I don't think that is a good trade.

On the subject of Tyranids, admech is well and trully countered by Tyranids. But I would take my 60+40 list over the dakkabots any day versus Tyranids. My CADIA brigade has a whole lot of non-LOS firepower to trade shots with the hive guard, and I have 100 T3 bodies that are quite happy to shoot into 120 T3/T4 guants/genestealers. Remember that I have scout sentinels in the brigade to scout up 9" and push back the deepstrikes for the first turn. The Dakkabots would be good for killing hive tyrants that fly into line of sight, but that is it. A cagey and/or good Tyranid player will counter the Dakkabots.

The thing though is that your screen is more like the core of your army in this list. But 60 Guardsmen and 40 Skitarii don't present as much a threat as 120 Boyz or Gaunts. =\

Definitely stick to the Mortars. Another horde army would be your biggest threat.

Suzuteo wrote:
The thing though is that your screen is more like the core of your army in this list. But 60 Guardsmen and 40 Skitarii don't present as much a threat as 120 Boyz or Gaunts. =\

Definitely stick to the Mortars. Another horde army would be your biggest threat.

What are you thinking our answer to the new Tyranid codex is? Tyranids are crazy dominant in all the battlereports I have seen. Then have 30 man fearless blobs and double shooting 36" artillery. And they have the possibility of guaranteed first turn charges from the swarmlord. And they have T7 hivetyrants with 4++ and FNP psychic powers. Cawl + Dakkabots can plausibly drop a hive tyrant with Wrath of Mars, but tying up 800 points in models that can't ever shoot the non-LOS or 48" range Tyranid artillery sounds like a recipe for disaster. EDIT: it is worth noting that every flavor of CHAOS is weaker now due to malefic lord nerfs and wider use of RELIC OF CADIA. As much as daemon primarchs are bad ... they are made weaker relative to what they were 3 months ago.

It's tough to prepare against because there are so many different threats. Makes me fear what will happen when Orcs also get their codex.

Anyhow, Dakkabots seem to be the answer. They have a huge advantage in that they can shoot through that ridiculous cover bonus. Even Mortars struggle to do anything to Tyranids at this point because of that alone.

Relic of Cadia needs a rules errata.

Suzuteo wrote:
It's tough to prepare against because there are so many different threats. Makes me fear what will happen when Orcs also get their codex.

Anyhow, Dakkabots seem to be the answer. They have a huge advantage in that they can shoot through that ridiculous cover bonus. Even Mortars struggle to do anything to Tyranids at this point because of that alone.

Relic of Cadia needs a rules errata.

Alright, so if creative stuff isn't that great, I can save myself a lot of time and money by going with my template list. I only have to paint 3 models (the basilisks) for this list to be ready for LVO. It just feels so limited. Also, Tyranids and Daemon primarchs have made the Icarus worse than it was. 5 of its shots are str6, -2, which is a poop tier profile against T7, 3+/4++. I know how to play the list below. I get what it does and what it does well. It is tight on CP and has 30 gaurds and 4 dragoons as a screen between things that can't fall back out of combat. And this list can't get across the map to take things because the dragoons and the guardsmen are going to die for sure. Is this really the best that we can do?

MARS
Cawl + 5 Dakkabots + 3 Neutrons + 4x1 Dragoons

CADIA
2xCompCom + 3x10 guards + 1x3 Basilisks (this list can be 12 drops)

Wulfey wrote:

MARS
Cawl + 5 Dakkabots + 3 Neutrons + 4x1 Dragoons

CADIA
2xCompCom + 3x10 guards + 1x3 Basilisks (this list can be 12 drops)

There is the competitive AdMech list post-CA.

Cawl- cawl is an expensive drain at this point that only really hits a handful of units. And can’t even affect half the army

Neutronager- just so much meh. For the same price you can get between 2-3 lascannons imbedded in 20-30 ablative wounds. Or a 2d6 str 10 ap -2 weapon you can fire from cover that does on average one wound less but needs no los. Or for just 20 points more than the neutronager you can get 6 lascannon in hwt

Dragoons - I mean really what are these doing that ratlings or scout sentinels do almost as well? Cc? We’re a gunline. Hell the armored sentinel for the same price has t6 6w and a lascannon

Dakkabots- theses are great but as stated above realistically crawls overpriced if he’s just affecting these guy

In short: There replacements for the dragoons that work more synergisticly, cawls use continues to decrease with every point of guard you put in the board which is more and more each list. And neutronagers are decent but not amazing

Conclusion: it really is time to let the army rip. There’s one good unit, dakkabots, and they can either be supplanted with stuff in the guard codex or taken as an aux detachment.

RIP Mechanicus.

gendoikari87 wrote:
Cawl- cawl is an expensive drain at this point that only really hits a handful of units. And can’t even affect half the army

Neutronager- just so much meh. For the same price you can get between 2-3 lascannons imbedded in 20-30 ablative wounds. Or a 2d6 str 10 ap -2 weapon you can fire from cover that does on average one wound less but needs no los. Or for just 20 points more than the neutronager you can get 6 lascannon in hwt

Dragoons - I mean really what are these doing that ratlings or scout sentinels do almost as well? Cc? We’re a gunline. Hell the armored sentinel for the same price has t6 6w and a lascannon

Dakkabots- theses are great but as stated above realistically crawls overpriced if he’s just affecting these guy

In short: There replacements for the dragoons that work more synergisticly, cawls use continues to decrease with every point of guard you put in the board which is more and more each list. And neutronagers are decent but not amazing

Conclusion: it really is time to let the army rip. There’s one good unit, dakkabots, and they can either be supplanted with stuff in the guard codex or taken as an aux detachment.

RIP Mechanicus.

Cawl helps Robots the best. Which is what he does here. With the re-roll and Mortal wounds from Wrath, they are one of the best shooting units in the game.

Neutronager is solid as a rock - the high strength, the AP, and the high damage make it a no-brainer. Being able to buff it with Protector Doctrina is gravy.

Really, that is what you take AdMech for. Those units. Our brand of soup isn't bad. Guard can't dish out mortals like we can with Wrathbots, so we have the edge there. Goondozer is added for mobility and while it doesn't benefit from Cawl's re-rolls, being able to almost always have Shroudpsalm does help them and when they to get into combat, you can toss on Invocation to bump their strength to help make wounding T8 stuff easier or Chant for the re-roll 1's to up chances of exploding attacks.

I think AdMech is RIP status, but AdMech soup is viable second tier material.

Yes but the question is are neutronagers better than what’s available in guard. Are dragoons better than what’s in guard? I don’t think so. And I don’t see tournaments bearing that out either. And they probably won’t until guard bodies are no longer 4ppm. Until then the ablative wounds the guard add is just an overwhelming barrier. Take the kastelan. For 10 points more you get two squads of guard with lascannons. Or just three bare squads. That’s 60 attacks at 12” and 30 wounds. .... or 120 with orders

Guard seriously should be bumped back up to 5ppm at minimum

gendoikari87 wrote:
Yes but the question is are neutronagers better than what’s available in guard. Are dragoons better than what’s in guard? I don’t think so. And I don’t see tournaments bearing that out either. And they probably won’t until guard bodies are no longer 4ppm. Until then the ablative wounds the guard add is just an overwhelming barrier. Take the kastelan. For 10 points more you get two squads of guard with lascannons. Or just three bare squads. That’s 60 attacks at 12” and 30 wounds. .... or 120 with orders

Guard seriously should be bumped back up to 5ppm at minimum

This is getting into apples/oranges though. Neutronagers don't exactly compare to a Russ. Kastelans don't really compare to the squads. They aren't doing the same things the same ways. I think our best units are still solid choices over Guard choices. We do things they can't do. Especially Robots with the mortal wounds. We are one of the few factions that can nuke a daemon Primarch in one round. That is a big selling point for taking AdMech soup.

Maybe it’s apples and oranges, but the top winners are guard chaos daemons a few inquisition soups, and ravenguard(and ravenguard esque things)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The core of the problem is admech is a mess. Most other armies have a strategic theme and focus. Orks are hoard cc specialist. BA are elite cc specialists, guard are the quintessential gunline, ect.

Admech is just all over the place with very little synergy. Worse it’s trying to be guard but elite guard kind of. But scions exist so....

If gw want to fix admech they need to first address that problem


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If I were at gw I’d make guard the ranged slow mobile army. Everything is bs 3+ and assault. Skitarii get assault 2 ap -1 lasgun with 2 attacks at ap -1. The advance, there’s nothing that dissaudes then from advancing. They are robots and won’t be stopped, slowed down or distracted.

Make the onagers feet power fists. Let the robots march half speed and fire twice. Instead of a 6+ invuln everything gets fnp 6+

Or better yet just let everything fire in the fight phase instead of fight

Well the whole point was to change two things.

1) play solo mech
2) not use Dragoons as screener.

And yes I use priests and they eventually decimated Ork better than any other. That's why I got Dragoons and staff priest s in stygies to have options when I need to have more screener more counter units.

But my experience and I don't use math for it is that atm the only effective meat shields are rangers and infantry guard.
Breachers Dragoons and vanguard benefit more as second row defenders .and since I can't do only that vanguard go in front as well (nice overwatch) .

So to finish with the breacher Dragoons bla bla.
I didn't say Dragoons are not the best or guard not good.but.

I can defend my lines with cheap points that include.
Most likely a stygies battalion or outrider. That include breachers.
And if solo ad mech dominus stygies my warlord.
You most likely find 2*5 rangers 1*5 vanguard .rangers in front vanguard second line counter chrge with breachers and enginseers for healing and counter unit dominus and priests.
On my side second line will be lascblistrii. And again cheap troops that will 100% die. There is not been one game that rangers vnguard did not die till the last man.
The new edition split fire makes them dead. Flamers lascannons pistols cc you name it? They are in front and their job is to die so other units survive.

T5 troop 120 points second row along with hq and counters -1 to hit 50% won't even get shot from my enemies since they try to get them melle. And why shoot breacher. Sub par heavy arc rifle bs4+. Well guess what not only they get healed not only they semi ignore low shooting either with -1 for hordes or T5 or even their 3+ or better save. Most of the time. Either way if enemy uses big guns on them won't shoot other targets or just can't kill them one shot is enough for me to be a screener. And. Good one.
Yes if I face orks I LL use drgoons ofc. But I don't want my Dragoons all games in defence . That's it. Troops obj secure get buffed with stratagem for extra survival. Now if you don't have 3-4 onagers and you wonder to take breacher or an Onagers ofc onager. But if you don't want to play 30 guard and prefer a more elitish style army I believe 1*5 rangers 1*5 vanguard 1*3 breacher with canticles properly used can defend equally if not better. Or even if they defend a bit worse they definitely shoot better save better and can do more things as stygies on the table.

Solo ad mech I play and seems viable. Now if you ask me what would be a bit more optimal I'd say 10 man tether vnguard graia then 10 man rangers tether arc and then brechers keeping balistarii close for leadership buff if you take omnispex. Rest plasma snipers etc re nice but die easily. Extremely easy for me to invest so much. 92 points snipers rock and can be used backfield stygies depending on your lists.

If I take 60 guard troops 3 basilisk 2 companies etc. Then play guard . Get LL the tools needed go for it. Don't need ad mech.

So, guys, I'd like to take a Tech-Priest Enginseer with the Autocaduceus in support of my Superheavy Tank Company, and he needs to be in a mechanicus detachment to access the Stratagems so he can use Tech-Adept to get 2 repair rolls per turn. He'd also be my Warlord, for Necromechanic, to give a superheavy tank 4-8 wounds back in one turn.

My question is: what sort of force should be built around him that's fun & interesting & engaging? I like Kataphrons but I doubt a lowly enginseer would have many with him, and the regular elite servitors are badly overpriced.

Guard hit on 4+ los yes but.. many use -1 to hit defence now so guard shooting is bad for me.

Los is great but I don't like it. Nor they have 5+ invu reroll 1s and shroud for your tanks . With Cawl you got one of the best dakkalines in the game. I don't why Rip ad mech. Might now be extremely good but it's definitely competitive as shooting army. How you manage to keep shooting is the issue. If I shoot 3-4 turns it's tabled enemy. Robots Onagers Cawl ironstriders both Dragoons and balistarii snipers some times priests some others etremely good shooting.

 Yoda79 wrote:
Well the whole point was to change two things.

1) play solo mech

Solo ad mech I play and seems viable. Now if you ask me what would be a bit more optimal I'd say 10 man tether vnguard graia then 10 man rangers tether arc and then brechers keeping balistarii close for leadership buff if you take omnispex. Rest plasma snipers etc re nice but die easily. Extremely easy for me to invest so much. 92 points snipers rock and can be used backfield stygies depending on your lists.

If I take 60 guard troops 3 basilisk 2 companies etc. Then play guard . Get LL the tools needed go for it. Don't need ad mech.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
I am actually quite happy your enjoying things Yoda. Have a good weekend

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

Wulfey wrote:

MARS
Cawl + 5 Dakkabots + 3 Neutrons + 4x1 Dragoons

CADIA
2xCompCom + 3x10 guards + 1x3 Basilisks (this list can be 12 drops)

There is the competitive AdMech list post-CA.

Yeah, I mean, I have the models and it is a very straightforwards list. No shenanigans. Either you can crush my lines and eat my robots, or my robots blow you off the table. The big debate is whether to run the dragoons as STYGIES in a third detachment (I think this is yes but I hate the bookkeeping and I don't want to repaint my models), and when I should be spending a CP to get Kurov's aquila on the second commander. I think the answer is if my opponent has more than 6CP.

And to the above on Onagers, try pricing out other tanks in other armies. The neutronager is 140 points. Comparable lascannon armed tanks are 200 points and they don't have 5++invul saves and powerOfTheMachineSpirit. And Cawl's reroll ALL hit rolls aura is seriously boss in a meta rife with negative modifiers to be hit. Onagers are also extremely flexible at moving and shooting as most opponents don't think lascannon platforms can move and shoot at full BS. On top of this admech has the best ability to repair their tanks. Neutronagers are subject to cold spells on key dice rolls, but they are flatly devastating to things that are across the board and think they can't be hit and don't have an invul save (every non-LOS artillery platform). If Lascannon armed guards squads were really that awesome I think you see more of them. What you do see a lot of is mortars because they are cheap and provide firepower that your heavier vehicles can't provide.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
So, guys, I'd like to take a Tech-Priest Enginseer with the Autocaduceus in support of my Superheavy Tank Company, and he needs to be in a mechanicus detachment to access the Stratagems so he can use Tech-Adept to get 2 repair rolls per turn. He'd also be my Warlord, for Necromechanic, to give a superheavy tank 4-8 wounds back in one turn.

My question is: what sort of force should be built around him that's fun & interesting & engaging? I like Kataphrons but I doubt a lowly enginseer would have many with him, and the regular elite servitors are badly overpriced.

You will want 2 troop units so you can put them in a patrol. I think you usually have around 500 pts to work with right? I would do a 5 man squad of rangers with 2 TAs, and a 3 man kataphron squad with grav / flamers, plasma is better with rerolls. A 10 man squad of rangers might not be bad for screening as the enginseer is very fragile.

If Peltasts ever make a return and get thier shrouding super heavy ability they will prob be an awesome choice as well.