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 Lobukia wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Looks like all those 6.5 rumors just got shot down.

Maybe not... hopefully wound allocation, line of sight, challenges, etc are just tweak, not radically altered like that last edition change over.

I dunno man, they go out of thier way to call this a new edition in the article....

 Samurai_Eduh wrote:

 Pox Apostle wrote:
I'm actually really liking the sound of this. Particularly because I think the flip side to Unbound will be an ease of playing skirmish style 40K and having it be completely legal. I can see an honest-to-goodness ability to forge a narrative with Unbound, small 500-750 point games where you aren't hampered by bringing an HQ and 2 Troops. Come up with a cool story for an all Terminator vanilla marines force. A Ravenguard force with all jump packs. An all Sternguard Deathwatch list, etc. Have your club/store/friend's garage run a small campaign or tourney with small points games of Unbound. It actually opens up a lot more possibilities than just gak tons of Riptides and Heldrakes.

This sounds fun, but lets be honest. What type of armies do you think you will usually see in unbound: fluffy armies with a really cool theme and narrative or, 15 helldrakes/riptides?

Oh, I know we'll see the spammers out there taking full advantage of this. But I'm trying to look on the bright side and thinking up cool ways to utilize the rules. Much like the Kill Team rules that most people seem to really like (myself included), if other folks start running fluffy, small points game lists with Unbound it could possibly catch on in some gaming circles as just one more way to play the game. And multiple ways to play the game seem to be what GW is aiming for with these new rules.

Why do I suddenly feel a sense of dread

 Zweischneid wrote:
Cake and eat it too.

Huh,

So 'Leave one army without an update while others are done twice' and 'Rush armies out with little or no testing or proofreading' are the only two possible options for codex design? That's interesting.

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
I'm just throwing this out there, but if everyone is on board with these "rumor" rules - why not play Fantasy where they already are in play?.

Because Fantasy isn't a SciFi game...?


So... we now have confirmation that it is a new edition, and it does throw the FOC out in favour of 'use whatever you have'... which is pretty much what everyone should have been expecting going by the way they have been mauling the FOC over the last year or so.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the 'bonuses' for running a Battle Forged army will be largely just a table that you roll on like the current Warlord table, that may get you something useful and may just be completely useless... but will in either case not be enough to balance out the benefits of being able to just run whatever you want to in an Unbound list.

It's amazing how depressing it is to see a game I used to enjoy so much turn into such a ridiculous mess.

Personally I think this is a great idea. It looks to be a tailor made way for TO's to control their events without drawing the ire of those who want to play everything (assuming battle-forged is without Escelation?)

but the unbound is for when you just want to down 4-15 cold beers in the basement with some friends.

I am a little bit concerned about the psychic phase, i'm not familiar with WHFB or even if it is exactly the same or not.

So what does Apocalypse fit in this now? It sure seems like Apoc is now just unbound.

 Zweischneid wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Looks like all those 6.5 rumors just got shot down.

Maybe not... hopefully wound allocation, line of sight, challenges, etc are just tweak, not radically altered like that last edition change over.

Well, an "unbound" all-Riptide or all-Helldrake army cannot possibly work without some significant changes to scoring/missions/victory points at the very least.

Unless you are punished for tabling your opponent it should work all right.

 Steve steveson wrote:
He could have been talking about any of the comments, perhaps the one above yours using lots of caps maybe? Perhaps don't take things so personaly.

I'm not taking it personally, I just feel like there is a tendency to very quickly respond to a lot of comments, well thought-out or otherwise with "stop panicking."

However, either way I am not trying to pick a fight with Pretre or anyone else, so I will just say I apologize if I came off as attacking and we'll be done with that.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Flashman wrote:
Unbound is just a way to sell more miniatures of course...

"Now you can buy whatever you want for your army and not worry about whether you'll be allowed you use it in your games, because we say you can!"

...but not totally opposed to the concept. I will be interested to see what the bonuses are for a Battle Forged army.

Unbound will allow for full Tank Companies without needing FW rules.

That alone has me and my 8 Leman Russes excited.

It oddly does nothing for my Griffons or Medusa...

I wonder how allies will work with this psychic phase, will it just be a single pool for all the psychers. Or if it will be kept separate from one another. I might have to pick up some allies just so my Crons don't get screwed in the psychic phase.

 Samurai_Eduh wrote:

 Lobukia wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Looks like all those 6.5 rumors just got shot down.

Maybe not... hopefully wound allocation, line of sight, challenges, etc are just tweak, not radically altered like that last edition change over.

I dunno man, they go out of thier way to call this a new edition in the article....

That was my point.

So we pretty much get to play Apocalypse as a normal game now?

Yes, would be an interesting day to have a SM librarian bro-fist with a summoned daemon.

Now I really have to wait and see before I go running in the streets.

Fluff players REJOICE!

Competitive players: SELL YOUR MODELS TO THOSE SILLY FLUFF PLAYERS!

Now that it's officially a new edition with loads of changes, I'm back to "What the feth, a new BRB every 2 years? I'm out".

 insaniak wrote:
It's amazing how depressing it is to see a game I used to enjoy so much turn into such a ridiculous mess.

I dunno... structure to the game only really came along in 3rd. You could do pretty much whatever prior to that point IIRC.

As I far as I'm concerned, we past the point some time ago where you either roll with the insanity or go and play something else. I'm pretty much in the latter group now, because I hated 6th, but I will give 7th a once over for old times sake.

Nah, I think that's overestimating GW. Most likely they're assuming opponent's consent will solve everything.

And it's quite possible it will. Heck, if someone buys 8 Riptides, can't find a game and ends up having to buy an entirely new army then there's some good profit in it for GW.

Financial desperation thy name is "Unbound"?

Rejoice in my newest all flyrant army!

Samurai_Eduh wrote:

 Pox Apostle wrote:
I'm actually really liking the sound of this. Particularly because I think the flip side to Unbound will be an ease of playing skirmish style 40K and having it be completely legal. I can see an honest-to-goodness ability to forge a narrative with Unbound, small 500-750 point games where you aren't hampered by bringing an HQ and 2 Troops. Come up with a cool story for an all Terminator vanilla marines force. A Ravenguard force with all jump packs. An all Sternguard Deathwatch list, etc. Have your club/store/friend's garage run a small campaign or tourney with small points games of Unbound. It actually opens up a lot more possibilities than just gak tons of Riptides and Heldrakes.

This sounds fun, but lets be honest. What type of armies do you think you will usually see in unbound: fluffy armies with a really cool theme and narrative or, 15 helldrakes/riptides?

Yeah, that's my fear as well.

It's the same with the Allies Matrix. In theory it's a good thing as it allows fluffy aliances. Unfortunately, it was quickly abused to the point where I would say that it almost broke the game entirely.

Once again, I think we need to remind ourselves that this is a beer'n'pretzels game. When played for fun it's okay. When play competitively it's broken beyond fixing.

Flashman wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
It's amazing how depressing it is to see a game I used to enjoy so much turn into such a ridiculous mess.

I dunno... structure to the game only really came along in 3rd. You could do pretty much whatever prior to that point IIRC.

As I far as I'm concerned, we past the point some time ago where you either roll with the insanity or go and play something else. I'm pretty much in the latter group now, because I hated 6th, but I will give 7th a once over for old times sake.

Actually, in second edition your army was constricted by percentages. Up to 25% on HQ, Fast Attack, Heavy Support, and Allies and up to 50% for troops as I recall.

So this means I could play an entire bloodcrusher list, how epic would that look.

What about an all monolith or flyer list against an all close combat list?

Imperial Knight initiative!

Killa Kan konquest!

Land Raider game raid

Wraith knight night

heldrake hell game.

I wonder if perhaps the Unbound format will allow folk to pull in their Fantasy minis/units?

Unlikely I know but there was that brief burst of rumours over a mixed edition........

 Eldarain wrote:
Financial desperation thy name is "Unbound"?

Hehehe...
Your wallet... "Unbound"
The number of allies... "Unbound"
GW revenue... "Unbound"
Competitive players... unhinged... er, "Unbound"
Finding a "normal" game... "Unbound"
Armybuilder programmers... "Unbound"
Kirby... "Unbound"!

It works for so many things!

I'm starting to realize that with Unbound GW have just seemingly opened up the doors to people being able to make effective lists for armies like the Night Lords a legal thing again. People can debate all they like as to whether or not it was a conscious decision to put some fixes in there for players whose armies are lacking, or if they just said feth it we'll toss the FoC out the window instead of writing a good ruleset for said army, but hey, at least it opens that door up again to those players.

I better get my BRB tables back for my Tyranids for feth's sake if we're throwing away any remaining hint of sanity in regular 40k.

Don't be too fast to write 40k off. The news sound horrific indeed, but until we have not yet seen the entirety of the new rules, it might still take a good turn.

Unbound, however, will be completely unplayable. Also: does Unbound mean that Apocalpyse is discontinued?

 Talizvar wrote:
Fluff players REJOICE!

Indeed. Because nothing will make fluff-oriented gamers happier than Eldar Farseers being able to summon Daemonettes to the table...

Reaaaaallly dont know how I feel about this.

On the one hand this is god damn awesome and makes me all giddy, always wanted to do an all unit army like the real badass looking units just for fun.

On the other, wont this just be abused or even in fun games, I imagine everyone will be just using riptides, monoliths, soul grinder as said in the very WD. Oh hey all close combat Black Templar army sorry guys but everyone is just using big off tanks.

WHAT THE !!

 insaniak wrote:

 Talizvar wrote:
Fluff players REJOICE!

Indeed. Because nothing will make fluff-oriented gamers happier than Eldar Farseers being able to summon Daemonettes to the table...

White Dwarf article states that unit-restrictions and allies-restrictions still apply.

Hoooo boy.

They actually aknowledge that the only limit they see is the amount of cash you are willing to spend on modells.

The Demonology thing sounds nice. Maybe that's something even Khornate demons will be able to do and just spamming some more bloodletters would make an all-khorne list a bit more viable.

 insaniak wrote:

 Talizvar wrote:
Fluff players REJOICE!

Indeed. Because nothing will make fluff-oriented gamers happier than Eldar Farseers being able to summon Daemonettes to the table...

Rumors have said that the ally table still applies.

edit: Oh, you're talking Daemonology.