Forgeworld 2019 News & Rumours-BA Dawnbreakers Pg 163

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**BrookM**

zedmeister wrote:
The new Militia tank based on the Aurox-Chassis is awesome. It comes stock with twin-linked autocannon turret and heavy flamer sponsons. Depending on whether it is for a Militia or Solar Auxilia army, you can then swop out weapons for more autocannon, volkite, lascannon etc. The tank and Aurox represent that in Rogue Trader, the Imperial Army could take land raiders, predators and rhinos. This reflects the predator. Its cheap in points (60pts) and has armour similar to the Predator (12/11/10) and comes in squadrons. The rules will eventually appear in 40k as well.

It will be interesting to see what kind of vehicle they'll produce to represent a not-Land Raider then.

**Ice_can**

Jesus just what 40K needs Guard with a quad lascannon predator in squadrons

On the pricing, all of you complaining about the difference between recaster prices and FW prices, you do realise that recasters have no development costs or rules team to support which adds to the amount of money FW has to charge for their products.

Development costs are usually a significant proportion of the cost of any low production volume product, which is what FW models are.

It's slightly disappointing that GW is letting clueless muppets who don't understand that FW providing paints that GW doesn't isn't undercutting the GW paint line dictate what FW can and can't sell.

Hopefully FW can keep producing new models outwith specialist games, though I think specialist games are consuming almost all of FW resources.

**SeanDrake**

Ice_can wrote:
Jesus just what 40K needs Guard with a quad lascannon predator in squadrons

On the pricing, all of you complaining about the difference between recaster prices and FW prices, you do realise that recasters have no development costs or rules team to support which adds to the amount of money FW has to charge for their products.

Development costs are usually a significant proportion of the cost of any low production volume product, which is what FW models are.

It's slightly disappointing that GW is letting clueless muppets who don't understand that FW providing paints that GW doesn't isn't undercutting the GW paint line dictate what FW can and can't sell.

Hopefully FW can keep producing new models outwith specialist games, though I think specialist games are consuming almost all of FW resources.

Specialist games is designed to kill off Forgeworld by eating up all there resources to the point that the main design studio can argue that since all that FW make is boxed games sold in stores and a handful of add ons for these that there is no reason for FW anymore.

FW is in a fairly desperate battle for It's existance at the moment and it appears to be losing, if they lost the paint range because it overlaps product from the main studio then I would expect DKOK to be next and anything not directly heresy related to be at risk as well.

**Crazyterran**

If the HH required paints didnt sell, maybe HH wasnt as popular as everyone was lead to believe by the internet, and Calth and Prospero selling so well had to do with the fact that Calth is still the best money for value Space Marine box available, and Prospero for about a year or so was the only eay to get Sisters of Silence and Custodes, which encouraged a lot of boxes to be bought, cracked open, and parted out.

**Ice_can**

SeanDrake wrote:
Specialist games is designed to kill off Forgeworld by eating up all there resources to the point that the main design studio can argue that since all that FW make is boxed games sold in stores and a handful of add ons for these that there is no reason for FW anymore.

FW is in a fairly desperate battle for It's existance at the moment and it appears to be losing, if they lost the paint range because it overlaps product from the main studio then I would expect DKOK to be next and anything not directly heresy related to be at risk as well.

I suspect that you have hit the nail on the head, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck, it's a safe bet it's a duck.

HH showed that FW could do better than the main studio. I suspect that put a few people in the hump and I also suspect that their is resentment of the autonomy that FW have compared to the main studio.

Though it would be sad to see FW be rolled into the main studio as I doubt we would have half of what they have done over the years had the main studio had a say in the matter.

**MonkeyBallistic**

Ice_can wrote:

HH showed that FW could do better than the main studio. I suspect that put a few people in the hump and I also suspect that their is resentment of the autonomy that FW have compared to the main studio.

A few years ago I would have agreed, but I think GW have really upped their game in the last couple of years. The minis they’re producing now are the best they’ve ever done. Primaris marines (the models not the fluff) are the marines I’ve wanted since getting into the hobby, GW’s Custodes range is much better than FW’s imho. I still really like FW’s vehicles, but HH’s stunted little marines feels like the best of the bad old days to me.

I don’t know if there really was any resentment in the GW design studio, but if there was, I’d say it made GW up it’s game rather than try to kill FW.

**Ice_can**

I doubt it would be the actual model designers etc that would be the issue it's the managment types who keep large chunks of GW in the dark as to what's going on and seem more interested in building their own control over what is best for the company.

I suspect that office politics is out of control at GW and it's unfortunately probably going to get worse before it gets better, unless something is done about it.

Though I do suspect that a large community reaction would be required for senior managment to pay attention.

**MonkeyBallistic**

Ice_can wrote:
I doubt it would be the actual model designers etc that would be the issue it's the managment types who keep large chunks of GW in the dark as to what's going on and seem more interested in building their own control over what is best for the company.

I suspect that office politics is out of control at GW and it's unfortunately probably going to get worse before it gets better, unless something is done about it.

Though I do suspect that a large community reaction would be required for senior managment to pay attention.

Is this speculation actually based on anything more that seeing what they’re choosing to release?

It’s just as plausible to say that the HH range may be being reduced because it isn’t selling well. Specialist games are being promoted within the company because they do sell.

**kronk**

Ice_can wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:
Specialist games is designed to kill off Forgeworld by eating up all there resources to the point that the main design studio can argue that since all that FW make is boxed games sold in stores and a handful of add ons for these that there is no reason for FW anymore.

FW is in a fairly desperate battle for It's existance at the moment and it appears to be losing, if they lost the paint range because it overlaps product from the main studio then I would expect DKOK to be next and anything not directly heresy related to be at risk as well.

I suspect that you have hit the nail on the head, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck, it's a safe bet it's a duck.

HH showed that FW could do better than the main studio. I suspect that put a few people in the hump and I also suspect that their is resentment of the autonomy that FW have compared to the main studio.

Though it would be sad to see FW be rolled into the main studio as I doubt we would have half of what they have done over the years had the main studio had a say in the matter.

I am disappointed. We have 2 baseless conspiracy theories in a row and not 1 mention of :

1. Illuminati
2. Chemtrails
3. Area 51
4. Fluoride in the drinking water.

2/10 guys. Post harder.

**Peregrine**

zedmeister wrote:
The items (paints and upgrades) were removed due to low sales by the main GW stock team – not a FW decision.
...
The paints were removed by non-hobbyists.

And here we come back to the fundamental truth of the situation: GW management continues to demonstrate their sheer incompetence, and should be fired (and probably blacklisted from ever working in the industry again). Get rid of all the

ing idiots who think that having a business degree is all they need to understand a complex niche-market industry. But sadly that will never happen, since the

ing idiots are running the company and have no incentive to leave. And sadly, with GW's financial reports looking better these days, the odds of FFG/WOTC/etc buying GW's IP and dumping all the redundant mangament idiots grow smaller and smaller.

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

It's a shame the paints have gone, as since they were stuck as direct order from FW only they were never going to be huge sellers as it was really espensive to order just one or two once you figure in shipping

so in general they'd be order fillers, or one off large orders or people just wouldn't bother

**MonkeyBallistic**

OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
It's a shame the paints have gone, as since they were stuck as direct order from FW only they were never going to be huge sellers as it was really espensive to order just one or two once you figure in shipping

so in general they'd be order fillers, or one off large orders or people just wouldn't bother

That’s something that’s always bothered me about FW. Why can I get free shipping from GW if I spend £40, but I need to spend £250 at FW? Why can’t I put in one order that contains a mix of GW and FW stuff?

**Earth127**

I think it's mostly a matter of sales.

**ScarletRose**

Whether people can afford the prices or not is moot.

It's not at all - when suppliers set a price higher than people are willing to pay they set up a situation where other suppliers who can undercut the price can get that subset of people who won't pay the set price but can still pay enough to cover making the product.

It's econ 101, that's how markets work.

It takes money from the company,

If people who buy recasts are "too poor" to afford their "luxury non-essential goods" then how is taking sales away from the company? Those people wouldn't have bought anyway.

shows off a lower quality

Debatable, there's a broad range and it depends on the recaster.

potentially unsafe product

Yep, heard this one too - because everyone knows Chinese resin has uranium and DDT in it. I'm hyperbolizing here because it's a baseless claim.

Finally, it goes without saying that buying from recasters is an unscrupulously activity regardless of the questionable motives for doing so.

There's some activities society prohibits out of necessity (murder, etc) and there's some it prohibits to protect certain economic interests. This is most definitely the latter, no matter how much people like to fake outrage that it's the former.

---

Imagine that, the chunky, annoying to paint old armour that had less detail than mkiii and couldn’t match the sleek high tech look of miv didn’t sell well.

Lol, spot on. When I was picking up 30k (when Betrayal at Calth came out and I could do it in plastic) I can't remember anyone being gung-ho for Mk II armor. Maybe a squad here or there, but no one made an army of it like they did Mk III or Mk IV.

**H.B.M.C.**

Peregrine wrote:
FFG... buying GW's IP

Not sure I want 40K to change into a game with a bunch of mandatory stat cards and proprietary dice.

**Tannhauser42**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Peregrine wrote:
FFG... buying GW's IP
Not sure I want 40K to change into a game with a bunch of mandatory stat cards and proprietary dice.

*flashbacks of 2nd Edition*

**Platuan4th**

Tannhauser42 wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Peregrine wrote:
FFG... buying GW's IP
Not sure I want 40K to change into a game with a bunch of mandatory stat cards and proprietary dice.

*flashbacks of 2nd Edition*

Beat me to it.

**zedmeister**

ScarletRose wrote:
It's not at all - when suppliers set a price higher than people are willing to pay they set up a situation where other suppliers who can undercut the price can get that subset of people who won't pay the set price but can still pay enough to cover making the product.

It's econ 101, that's how markets work.

If people who buy recasts are "too poor" to afford their "luxury non-essential goods" then how is taking sales away from the company? Those people wouldn't have bought anyway.

Debatable, there's a broad range and it depends on the recaster.

Yep, heard this one too - because everyone knows Chinese resin has uranium and DDT in it. I'm hyperbolizing here because it's a baseless claim.

There's some activities society prohibits out of necessity (murder, etc) and there's some it prohibits to protect certain economic interests. This is most definitely the latter, no matter how much people like to fake outrage that it's the former.

Markets work when there is a legal framework to protect ones patent or intellectual property. Having another company such as Privateer Press or Kingdom Death come in and undercut GW with a superior product is legitimate competition. Having a bunch of immoral IP thieves selling your own product isn't competition. And, although we don't know the reasons for people using recasts, people buying them still cheapens the wider hobby and sets a bad precedent. As for the safety issue, well note my use of the term potentially. What safety tests have the recasters been forced to go through? Are they using resin safe for consumer use? There's plenty of other questions to ask on that, that you won't get answers to.

Finally, as mentioned above, without a Framework to protect IP and patents, we wouldn't have the modern world. It is protecting someones economic interests and that's not a bad thing. People want to get paid and make a living regardless of the company size. We can argue over what is right or wrong with the current law as well as what could be improved till the cows come home, but it doesn't escape the fact that recasting is morally and legally wrong.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tannhauser42 wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Peregrine wrote:
FFG... buying GW's IP
Not sure I want 40K to change into a game with a bunch of mandatory stat cards and proprietary dice.

*flashbacks of 2nd Edition*

Don't even need to go back that far!

Spoiler:

**Looky Likey**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Looky Likey wrote:
As I posted a few pages back, and a few other places have posted, at Warhammer fest in the FW seminar Tony confirmed that stuff was being removed that didn't sell. He also said Mark II in particular had very low sales its entire life.
Some guy in a seminar. Wonderful.

What I mean was an actual statement, on their Facebook, explaining why. A second hand story from an event isn't good enough.

Tony just some guy, and an official seminar at the largest Warhammer event just some seminar? Wow

If you actually bother to look elsewhere there has been plenty of corroboration. I believe he answered the exact same question on both days' seminars as well.

If you aren't happy with that I suggest you email or contact Tony care of the official FW addresses:
forgeworld@gwplc.com
https://en-gb.facebook.com/ForgeWorldUK/

**MeanGreenStompa**

kronk wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
SeanDrake wrote:
Specialist games is designed to kill off Forgeworld by eating up all there resources to the point that the main design studio can argue that since all that FW make is boxed games sold in stores and a handful of add ons for these that there is no reason for FW anymore.

FW is in a fairly desperate battle for It's existance at the moment and it appears to be losing, if they lost the paint range because it overlaps product from the main studio then I would expect DKOK to be next and anything not directly heresy related to be at risk as well.

I suspect that you have hit the nail on the head, if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck, it's a safe bet it's a duck.

HH showed that FW could do better than the main studio. I suspect that put a few people in the hump and I also suspect that their is resentment of the autonomy that FW have compared to the main studio.

Though it would be sad to see FW be rolled into the main studio as I doubt we would have half of what they have done over the years had the main studio had a say in the matter.

I am disappointed. We have 2 baseless conspiracy theories in a row and not 1 mention of :

1. Illuminati
2. Chemtrails
3. Area 51
4. Fluoride in the drinking water.

2/10 guys. Post harder.

Precisely, Mr Kronk, I never knew Alex Jones was a GW fan...

Don't believe I've heard anything this bonkers in quite a while. As far as I'm aware FW enjoys far more influence now than it has in any other time in it's history.

**Mr_Rose**

zedmeister wrote:
Tannhauser42 wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Peregrine wrote:
FFG... buying GW's IP
Not sure I want 40K to change into a game with a bunch of mandatory stat cards and proprietary dice.

*flashbacks of 2nd Edition*

Don't even need to go back that far!

Spoiler:

You have that exactly backwards: Shadespire is a card game with a bunch of mandatory plastic figures and card tokens.

**H.B.M.C.**

Looky Likey wrote:
Tony just some guy, and an official seminar at the largest Warhammer event just some seminar? Wow

I had a feeling someone would say that, which is why I had a second part of my post that you ignored. Here, let me quote myself to help you out:

What I mean was an actual statement, on their Facebook, explaining why. A second hand story from an event isn't good enough.

That hasn't happened.

**TwilightSparkles**

Some crazy opinions masquerading as fact here.

FW is simply doing what any business does: remove bad selling lines or lines that nearly duplicate existing lines.

The weapons have similar versions available. The legion parts you can replicate with plastic and brass etch in most cases. The paint was for airbrushes which, judging from my own anecdotal experiences, are a minority use item.

For all we know they will relaunch the paint in a paintableform that you just thin for airbrush use.

Titanicus is going to need FW for engine variants. This year's FW open day has had seminars added, at no extra cost. They are brining an IA book out for Talons.

Hardly evidence FW is going anywhere.

**Looky Likey**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
I had a feeling someone would say that, which is why I had a second part of my post that you ignored. Here, let me quote myself to help you out:

What I mean was an actual statement, on their Facebook, explaining why. A second hand story from an event isn't good enough.
That hasn't happened.

I didn't ignore it I actually gave you a clear way to get a first hand source, and helpfully you then proceed to do exactly what you accused me of doing by ignoring my second part:

Looky Likey wrote:

If you aren't happy with that I suggest you email or contact Tony care of the official FW addresses:
forgeworld@gwplc.com
https://en-gb.facebook.com/ForgeWorldUK/

Why won't you contact them directly? I don't need to as I already have a first hand answer from them that I'm happy with but you clearly aren't happy. You have an easy way to get your first hand source but seemingly choose not to.

**SeanDrake**

TwilightSparkles wrote:
Some crazy opinions masquerading as fact here.

FW is simply doing what any business does: remove bad selling lines or lines that nearly duplicate existing lines.
But they did not remove duplicate lines as that would have been mark iv and I in.

The weapons have similar versions available. The legion parts you can replicate with plastic and brass etch in most cases. The paint was for airbrushes which, judging from my own anecdotal experiences, are a minority use item.
The weapons were not all duplicates and the duplicates are not compatible with the models they sell. There are no Legion plastic parts and brass etch was all ready starting to be canned. Airbrush use is quite high among people buying from FW due to the larger models and people wanting a good quality paint job on there exspensive kit.

For all we know they will relaunch the paint in a paintableform that you just thin for airbrush use.
Nope they are gone with no plans to replace them as per a number of responses from them directly.

Titanicus is going to need FW for engine variants. This year's FW open day has had seminars added, at no extra cost. They are brining an IA book out for Talons.
As I said if FW are reduced to resin components for boxed games then they may as well be part of the main studio, how many of these are related to what was FW core product HH and big centrepiece models?,The IA book for talons is for 40k at the request of management due to the great sales of the plastic line, it has further delayed the previously announced books.

Hardly evidence FW is going anywhere.
They have lost almost there entire staff to specialist games even the person who drew the transfer sheets has gone, they lost both experienced sculptors form the character series. The last few character pieces have been conversions of existing models rather than actual new sculpts, admittedly very good conversions on the most part but still.

**Thebiggesthat**

And they are standing up a dedicated FW AoS department, and are filling it with new people.

Not sure that fits with your narrative though Seany old boy.

**xowainx**

SeanDrake wrote:

TwilightSparkles wrote:
Some crazy opinions masquerading as fact here.
They have lost almost there entire staff to specialist games even the person who drew the transfer sheets has gone

Holly Goodwin does them and she hasn't left FW, she was at Warhammer Fest last week.

**Haighus**

Looky Likey wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
I had a feeling someone would say that, which is why I had a second part of my post that you ignored. Here, let me quote myself to help you out:

What I mean was an actual statement, on their Facebook, explaining why. A second hand story from an event isn't good enough.
That hasn't happened.

I didn't ignore it I actually gave you a clear way to get a first hand source, and helpfully you then proceed to do exactly what you accused me of doing by ignoring my second part:

Looky Likey wrote:

If you aren't happy with that I suggest you email or contact Tony care of the official FW addresses:
forgeworld@gwplc.com
https://en-gb.facebook.com/ForgeWorldUK/
Why won't you contact them directly? I don't need to as I already have a first hand answer from them that I'm happy with but you clearly aren't happy. You have an easy way to get your first hand source but seemingly choose not to.

In addition, Facebook is in no way more official than announcing it at a GW event. If they want to do an official statement, then they should use the Community website, not FB where the message will be hard to find in a few hours.

**parakuribo**

Dunno if this is old but bad news....

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/searchResults?N=3947026521+4198382931&Nr=AND%28sku.siteId%3AUS_fw%2Cproduct.locale%3Aen_US_fw%29&Nrs=collection%28%29%2Frecord%5Bproduct.startDate+%3C%3D+1527000840000+and+product.endDate+%3E%3D+1527000840000%5D&Ns=sku.price%7C0&view=all

Was hoping to get Marauders + Phobos guns. Now it is generic cultists....

**Davespil**

parakuribo wrote:
Dunno if this is old but bad news....

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-US/searchResults?N=3947026521+4198382931&Nr=AND%28sku.siteId%3AUS_fw%2Cproduct.locale%3Aen_US_fw%29&Nrs=collection%28%29%2Frecord%5Bproduct.startDate+%3C%3D+1527000840000+and+product.endDate+%3E%3D+1527000840000%5D&Ns=sku.price%7C0&view=all

Was hoping to get Marauders + Phobos guns. Now it is generic cultists....

Not bad news, FW is just getting rid of dead weight. Let them re-focus on the new stuff.