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 generalchaos34 wrote:

 MacPhail wrote:

Rogerio134134 wrote:
Yeah celestians seem a solid choice for me, think I'll run a squad of 5 with a heavy bolter to just sit near characters and plink some reliable shots off at distance.

I'm getting sweeter and sweeter on Celestians the more I use them... thinking about adding 5 to my backfield Battalion in addition to big one I send up with the forward aura bubble. Usually it's the forward element that draws the sniper fire, and I've never faced such saturated sniper fire that I have to adjust my play... but like tneva82 says, Eliminators are all over the place.

Would you just add 5 naked ones or do 4 stormbolters since its only 8 points?

I would take 4 storm bolters in a heartbeat. Only problem is that's the realm of dominions. Celestians are limited to 2 special weapons. Superior can take 3rd storm bolter if your meta allows legends to be used but that's not for everybody(and if I would have to guess most tournaments and with that huge chunk of non tournaments don't allow. Would be interesting to have some reliable data on that though)

I'd suggest two storm bolters and a power maul on the superior. That reroll that celestians get near a canoness is for all attacks, so that's a lot of rerolled S5 attacks if you get assaulted / need to assault. Bonus points if you're Bloody Rose.

 Melissia wrote:
I'd suggest two storm bolters and a power maul on the superior.

Certainl viable option and I will likely build one. Not sure how good mine is but I went with trio of melta's and power maul. Expensive as hell but wanted one squad that hits like a brick. Albeit problem is they are sort of a bullseye target...

4 special weapons would be bad for balance though. Dominions would pretty much die except maybe brigade filler. Why pay 10 pts for dominion when you can have 10 pts for celestian who gets just as many special weapons?

tneva82 wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
I'd suggest two storm bolters and a power maul on the superior.

Certainl viable option and I will likely build one. Not sure how good mine is but I went with trio of melta's and power maul. Expensive as hell but wanted one squad that hits like a brick. Albeit problem is they are sort of a bullseye target...

That's part of why I'm actually thinking of avoiding combiweapons for Sisters. Just spread normal special weapons over more squads, instead of trying to concentrate firepower.

I would actually rather drop rgular special weapon than combi weapon(if said special weapon is flamer or melta gun).

Why? Well if you have combi weapon the last model you will remove from squad will have special weapon. If you have superior and separate special weapon you will eventually have to decide do you kill off the superior with superior LD(which could hurt you in morale phase) or special weapon.

Aka rather than 3 bolter girls, special weapon and superior I would have 4 bolter girls and superior with combi weapon.

Or have storm bolters. Either way flamer/meltagun I would rather have on superior to keep it alive until the last.

For those interested, new beta Mission rules for 2020 ITC are up...

https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1ltQMdeDqYRXOhvdYT3dtUSji3AISvZRM8gDlhOXDaF8/mobilebasic

 davidgr33n wrote:
For those interested, new beta Mission rules for 2020 ITC are up...

https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1ltQMdeDqYRXOhvdYT3dtUSji3AISvZRM8gDlhOXDaF8/mobilebasic

Huh.

Interesting. None of the secondaries still really affect Space Marine lists, while Imperial Guard or something will still give up 8 points almost automatically off of Reaper and Big Game Hunter.

Born for Greatness and The Postman are kind of awkward, and I don't really see them being picked up, especially over options like Reaper and Big Game. Born for Greatness kind of requires the enemy to go along with it to max it out. The postman will only really be complete-able if you're already winning the game, and while objectives like Reaper and Big Game and Recon will naturally complete from being on a course towards victory if they can be, the postman require you to do something else on top of it.

Sappers is strange, and I want to like it, since the idea of disabling an enemy objective could be worth a fair amount of value, but I also can't see it getting to a full 4 points very easily and it could easily just be harming you more than your enemy. Also, like engineers is pretty easy to accomplish with a few cheap BSS squads out of LoS and in cover.

I do like the change preventing the same unit from counting towards multiple kill secondaries, and I like that reaper now counts multiwound models, but none still really hit Space Marines will kill objectives and the missions in general kind of inherently disadvantage horde-ish armies, which was kind of the complaint from before.


I'm also not really a big fan of all the new CA eternal missions, though.

Celestine is decent for getting Born for Greatness - though we'll probably have better options in most match-ups.

The new Recon and Behind Enemy Lines scoring multiple points for have multiple units at the end of player turn should be a good way to quickly rack up some secondary points when we drop in the Seraphim or Zephyrim.

 Asmodai wrote:
Celestine is decent for getting Born for Greatness - though we'll probably have better options in most match-ups.

The new Recon and Behind Enemy Lines scoring multiple points for have multiple units at the end of player turn should be a good way to quickly rack up some secondary points when we drop in the Seraphim or Zephyrim.

Behind enemy lines will be easy with some seraphim and zephyrs.

 Asmodai wrote:
Celestine is decent for getting Born for Greatness - though we'll probably have better options in most match-ups.

The new Recon and Behind Enemy Lines scoring multiple points for have multiple units at the end of player turn should be a good way to quickly rack up some secondary points when we drop in the Seraphim or Zephyrim.

Recon is going to be money for me. Hoo baby.

Yeah, I was already taking Recon is almost every game, I definitely don't see that changing.

OTOH, my enemies might try harder to contest it.

 Asmodai wrote:
Celestine is decent for getting Born for Greatness - though we'll probably have better options in most match-ups.

The new Recon and Behind Enemy Lines scoring multiple points for have multiple units at the end of player turn should be a good way to quickly rack up some secondary points when we drop in the Seraphim or Zephyrim.

Unfortunately “Behind Enemy Lines” can’t be score by units with Fly keyword.

 davidgr33n wrote:

 Asmodai wrote:
Celestine is decent for getting Born for Greatness - though we'll probably have better options in most match-ups.

The new Recon and Behind Enemy Lines scoring multiple points for have multiple units at the end of player turn should be a good way to quickly rack up some secondary points when we drop in the Seraphim or Zephyrim.

Unfortunately “Behind Enemy Lines” can’t be score by units with Fly keyword.

That's incorrect: "If at least one of your units that does not have the Flyer battlefield role is entirely in the enemy Deployment Zone at the end of your turn, earn 1 Point"

Seraphim fly, but they don't have the Flyer battlefield role (like Crimson Hunters or Heldrakes for instance).

I see nothing really fixed here, just a few things shifted around. I will keep using my CA.

I do like the new deployment rules though, i wish that the CA missions had that reroll.

Marines will be much easier to get Reaper, and Marked For Death from. That's cool.

Little idea I've had... Can you use 2 stratagems on one unit?? So could take a retributor squad with 3 MM and one HF the sister superior with a boltgun. Play Holy trinity and storm of retribution on the unit giving you +1 to wound for everything plus choose the melta option for storm of retribution giving you range 36 multi meltas with plus 1 to the damage roll?? 3 CP bit would be pretty deadly if possible.

Yes you can, but this combination has little use. The target unit needs to be in range of the flamer for Holy Trinity, which means you are probably in half range for the Multi-Meltas without using Storm of Retribution. 2 CP for +1 Damage when you are already rolling 2d6-drop lowest is not a good bargain.

Also, you can use Holy Trinity via a Combi-Flamer along with 4 Multi-Meltas for more Melta-goodness.

True I somehow thought heavy flamers were range 12 to start off with because I'm so used to my lovely invictor warsuit

More feasible use for this would be with heavy flamer retributors or maybe dominion squad with holy trinity(though that's not something to plan for) and blessed bolts.

Alextroy: Also multi melta is not 2d6 drop lowest with sisters. It's 2d6 discard one. Very useful when you come against necrons. If it was 2d6 discard lowest it would make melta swingier and make stratagems(quantum shielding, command reroll for save rerolls) more efficient(without stratagems average damage stays same though. Just more swingy with big damage or no damage).

With 2d6 discard one it's flat out bonus. Roll 3 and 6? Go for 3. 3 and 4 are the optimal to have.

(you could also use it on the odd case where you want to damage but not kill the target. Not often but sometimes might come handy)

tneva82 wrote:
More feasible use for this would be with heavy flamer retributors or maybe dominion squad with holy trinity(though that's not something to plan for) and blessed bolts.

Yikes. Dominion with holy trinity is... I'd describe it as either being expensive or bad.

Better off having something like battle sister squad with two meltaguns and a combiflamer, if you're gonna try to make use of the Holy Trinity thing like that. The two meltaguns will be useful pretty much in any situation other than long range, the combiflamer will help deal with charges, and then if you get lucky you can also holy trinity.

If you're gonna use Dominions, you should specialize them for maximum effectiveness, as they're not as good as they used to be.

Never saw this explicitly but can an Act of Faith hit roll be used in overwatch? For example to shoot a meltagun?

Imnsho, Holy Trinity is a trap. Even in best cases it adds just one or two effective wounds and requires you to pay points for quite ineffective mixed squads.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 davidgr33n wrote:
Never saw this explicitly but can an Act of Faith hit roll be used in overwatch? For example to shoot a meltagun?

Yes. AoF can be used for hit rolls. That includes overwatch.

My FLGS is starting an escalation leaugue with enw armies, so 'might as well start Sisters, since Marines are everywhere and I already got Guard.

I'm thinking of doing squads of 10 sisters, with the Cherub, Simulacrum (since it gives more miracles usage, and it seems to be a cornerstone mechanic for the SoB, like Orders for guard) and a condemnor boltgun/chainsword for the Superior (Since it's D3 damage on psykers for a single point, c'mon...)

'thing is, what to take as Special/Heavy weapons...*should* I take one or both or neither?

I've read from pg 46 to 53 saw a few posts and lists, and meltagun is popular, but I lack vehicules to really use them properly; storm bolters seems also popular, being cheap and giving you an extra shot for peanut pricing. Heavy weapons falls of favour, I never saw any, short of a single heavy bolter with a Storm bolter in the squad.

I am just wondering if I should add a couple of Storm bolters to my 2 squads, go with Heavy Bolters or just got 10 bolters with the Chebus and Simulacrum and leave the special weapons to Dominions/Celestians (flamers for them due to good melee) and Retributors ?

How many multi-wound Psykers aren’t characters? Even for one point, what’s the point?

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
My FLGS is starting an escalation leaugue with enw armies, so 'might as well start Sisters, since Marines are everywhere and I already got Guard.

I'm thinking of doing squads of 10 sisters, with the Cherub, Simulacrum (since it gives more miracles usage, and it seems to be a cornerstone mechanic for the SoB, like Orders for guard) and a condemnor boltgun/chainsword for the Superior (Since it's D3 damage on psykers for a single point, c'mon...)

'thing is, what to take as Special/Heavy weapons...*should* I take one or both or neither?

I've read from pg 46 to 53 saw a few posts and lists, and meltagun is popular, but I lack vehicules to really use them properly; storm bolters seems also popular, being cheap and giving you an extra shot for peanut pricing. Heavy weapons falls of favour, I never saw any, short of a single heavy bolter with a Storm bolter in the squad.

I am just wondering if I should add a couple of Storm bolters to my 2 squads, go with Heavy Bolters or just got 10 bolters with the Chebus and Simulacrum and leave the special weapons to Dominions/Celestians (flamers for them due to good melee) and Retributors ?

You'll often want something dangerous to use that cherub and Simulacrum combo on, so I usually suggest meltas.

My Bloody Rose Canoness with Beneficence just bagged four Chaos Terminators in a single phase. She had the wounds for all five, but her Celestian pals got one first. She's incredible. That was with the Passion, which gave her extra hits every time she swung, but still... I may never not run BR just to have her every game. I suspect I'm preaching, apropos, to the choir...

Mellon wrote:
Imnsho, Holy Trinity is a trap. Even in best cases it adds just one or two effective wounds and requires you to pay points for quite ineffective mixed squads.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 davidgr33n wrote:
Never saw this explicitly but can an Act of Faith hit roll be used in overwatch? For example to shoot a meltagun?

Yes. AoF can be used for hit rolls. That includes overwatch.

It's a handy tool on the BSS squads with single melta, since you can trigger this just with an hand flamer for 1 point. Granted, it only works at 6", so it is an additional tool to have, not something that you base lists or strategies around. Giving +1 to wound to a bloody rose hand flamer though can be nice and you are going to have those around, because no self respecting sister army doesn't carry at least some flamers to burn the heretics.

Inquisitor Jex wrote:
My FLGS is starting an escalation leaugue with enw armies, so 'might as well start Sisters, since Marines are everywhere and I already got Guard.

I'm thinking of doing squads of 10 sisters, with the Cherub, Simulacrum (since it gives more miracles usage, and it seems to be a cornerstone mechanic for the SoB, like Orders for guard) and a condemnor boltgun/chainsword for the Superior (Since it's D3 damage on psykers for a single point, c'mon...)

'thing is, what to take as Special/Heavy weapons...*should* I take one or both or neither?

I've read from pg 46 to 53 saw a few posts and lists, and meltagun is popular, but I lack vehicules to really use them properly; storm bolters seems also popular, being cheap and giving you an extra shot for peanut pricing. Heavy weapons falls of favour, I never saw any, short of a single heavy bolter with a Storm bolter in the squad.

I am just wondering if I should add a couple of Storm bolters to my 2 squads, go with Heavy Bolters or just got 10 bolters with the Chebus and Simulacrum and leave the special weapons to Dominions/Celestians (flamers for them due to good melee) and Retributors ?

You only get 1 Heavy weapon per BSS, so -due to movement and range- they're regarded as suboptimal on non-Retributor squads.

Stormbolters are optimal on Dominions, but 2 on BSS isn't insane. Combi-Melta on Superior is also reasonable. Flamers just aren't popular, their range just limits them too much.

I'm of the school of thought that sisters squads should be small and cheap, sit on objectives and soak up fire. Storm Bolters on them is incredibly cheap and worth it I think. I'm running 6 X 5 strong units of BSS in my list 4 of them will be just with bolters and storm Bolters and 2 squads will be running melta guns just to mix it up and cause dramas to the enemy.

Anyone wanting to run an immolator? I'm tempted to run a single one with a multi melta on it just to draw fire away from the excorcists and to be a pain in the arse if it's ignored.

Rogerio134134 wrote:
I'm of the school of thought that sisters squads should be small and cheap, sit on objectives and soak up fire. Storm Bolters on them is incredibly cheap and worth it I think. I'm running 6 X 5 strong units of BSS in my list 4 of them will be just with bolters and storm Bolters and 2 squads will be running melta guns just to mix it up and cause dramas to the enemy.

Anyone wanting to run an immolator? I'm tempted to run a single one with a multi melta on it just to draw fire away from the excorcists and to be a pain in the arse if it's ignored.

Immolation Flamers are fun and annoying. There too expensive as is and Multi-Melta don't do enough to be a distraction, better off threatening to flamer everything before blowing up when they die.