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Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Veiled Warriors on mine wiped out five mans of Mandrakes and Wracks on his back line while rest of my shooting two thirds killed one Raider.

Killing backfield units needs not be on the agenda in first turn.
You need a resistant force when DE approaches your front line.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in us
Cabin Zombie






I was going with Linebreaker and Teleport Homers, so getting into and holding onto his backside was a main goal. That unit falling apart so spectacularly made that plan fail utterly. The dice on it just made it so much worse too. He had fourteen guys in melee. Rolled the first five, killed like ~five Warriors. Rolled the second five, killed another ~four. Feeling pretty good at this point. He rolled the last four, spiked it Hard, wiped the remaining ~eleven Warriors. Just built my hope up to crush it entirely, and losing out on that much reanimation potential is the worst feeling.

 
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer



London

I quite like pitiless hunters for immortals. A few squads of those guys in the back field could be pretty effective and relatively difficult to get rid of.

On the whole though I don’t think it’s worth taking across an army as a whole. Not enough stuff benefits and it’s not as big an upgrade as obsec, especially in 9th. You really want to be moving and claiming objectives, not sitting back still.

You could possibly do this if taking a soup list. You can certainly argue that command protocols don’t do that much. That’s especially true if you were going for two C’tan, since they don’t get protocols anyway.

If you had two patrols you could have one eternal expansionist set with a couple of reaper warriors squads and a CCB, then a second with a couple of squads of pitiless hunter immortals and maybe Anrakyr as the hq, since he’d buff everyone in both detachments.

I’ve got a slightly different idea, which is to make the second detachment be Sautekh and have Imotekh lead it. The plan is to lean heavily into mortal wounds and bring 20 warriors that could rapid fire at 18”.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




As I am now building up my army I was wondering if DE release or any others have changed the analysis on Lychguard v Praetorians as a good second hard-hitting flexible unit next to Skorpekhs and which weapon option if Lychguard.
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer



London

teamtigerstripe wrote:
As I am now building up my army I was wondering if DE release or any others have changed the analysis on Lychguard v Praetorians as a good second hard-hitting flexible unit next to Skorpekhs and which weapon option if Lychguard.

It looks like people mostly favour Lychguard and pretty much always give them shields. The fact they come with a 2+/4++ on a relatively cheap model makes them pretty good at sticking around to control the midfield, though it does arguably make them more of an anvil unit than what you’re describing. They’ll make a reassuringly messy wreck of not 1w infantry they hit though, with good strength and ap on many attacks. They’re a very buff-able unit too, being core, but can manage ok unbuffed if needed.

Praetorians are kind of cool but I struggle to figure out what to do with them. Big units look pretty vulnerable and not all that fantastic as a hammer squad. Small ones might work ok to go off and bully objective-holders and stuff, but they’re not all that great at getting there. You can’t use a chronomancer to give them an invulnerable save as they’re not <Dynasty>, though Orikan can.

I’m not really sure if there’s a role for Lychguard with scythes. They seem a bit too fragile and not really hard hitting enough to me. I think units like wraiths and skorpekhs do a slightly better job of the same thing. There’s a case for having them come out of a night scythe with the strat, but I’m not sure that’s really all that great, given the cost you pay.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Lychguard with Warscythes are the best melee Veil unit. I dunno if it's a niche that needs to be filled, but that's their slot.

They are also the hardest hitting/most supportable models in the dex, if you can get them into combat.

All in all, fact is that Warhammer 40K has never been as balanced as it is now, and codex releases have never been as interesting as they are now (new units and vehicles and tons of new special rules/strategies each release -- not just the same old crap with a few changes in statlines and points costs).

-Therion
_______________________________________

New Codexia's Finest Hour - my fluff about the change between codexes, roughly novel length. 
   
Made in us
Cabin Zombie






I do sythes out of Prismatic for the 6” charge. 9” Veil charge is much riskier.

 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

 AduroT wrote:
I do sythes out of Prismatic for the 6” charge. 9” Veil charge is much riskier.

Charge of 9'' I usually fail to do so.
So for me its not a worthwhile tactics.
One reason for me to go without Lychguard. Too slow and too unreliable.
I've always used Wraiths in the 6th and 7th ed and they never have let me down.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in us
Cabin Zombie






Sword ‘n Board Lychguard are just fine walking. 2+/4++ T5 2W and Reanimation is pretty solid.

 
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer



London

I think I’d probably still want sword and board Lychguard, even coming out of the prismatic strat. Essentially I think the vast increase in durability is worth the loss in damage output. Now that the shield gives a 2+ armour save as well as the 4++ the unit is substantially more resilient against small arms and melee.

If anything, scythe Lychguard are a bit happier if they can be buffed by a chronomancer. Part of the downside of the strat is that the unit appears too late in the turn to be buffed, leaving them very vulnerable to retaliation. I like how sword and board Lychguard don’t really need those buffs.

Another factor is that you might not want to be locked into using the strat. There’ll be games where it’s amazing but others where the more important thing is to dominate the mid board early on, so you want your guys on the table. If you take a unit with shields then they can do either job.

Taking shield guys obviously sacrifices a lot of alpha damage output. But which is better - a unit that does a ton of damage and then dies, or one that sticks around much longer, while actually doing pretty serious amounts of damage. Personally I want the durable unit in 9e, where the important thing is to live through your opponent’s turn to score objectives and complete actions. And anyway a unit with 30 S6 ap-3 attacks is hardly harmless.
   
Made in us
Cabin Zombie






When I’ve run them (just once so far) I used a unit of each. Shields walking and scythes prismaticing in, setting up a hammer and anvil type play.

 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Mandragola wrote:
I think I’d probably still want sword and board Lychguard, even coming out of the prismatic strat. Essentially I think the vast increase in durability is worth the loss in damage output. Now that the shield gives a 2+ armour save as well as the 4++ the unit is substantially more resilient against small arms and melee.

If anything, scythe Lychguard are a bit happier if they can be buffed by a chronomancer. Part of the downside of the strat is that the unit appears too late in the turn to be buffed, leaving them very vulnerable to retaliation. I like how sword and board Lychguard don’t really need those buffs.

Another factor is that you might not want to be locked into using the strat. There’ll be games where it’s amazing but others where the more important thing is to dominate the mid board early on, so you want your guys on the table. If you take a unit with shields then they can do either job.

Taking shield guys obviously sacrifices a lot of alpha damage output. But which is better - a unit that does a ton of damage and then dies, or one that sticks around much longer, while actually doing pretty serious amounts of damage. Personally I want the durable unit in 9e, where the important thing is to live through your opponent’s turn to score objectives and complete actions. And anyway a unit with 30 S6 ap-3 attacks is hardly harmless.


Not sure if you really need sword and board Lychguard.
One issue is delivery and getting the charge.
In opposition to Skorpekh and Wraiths they are too slow.
I'll leave them home for other viable options.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/18 07:37:43


Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in ca
Discriminating Deathmark Assassin






Shieldguard don't need to be fast. Turn one, 5"+Advance. If that doesn't get you on an objective, Turn two, 5"+Charge onto the objective. Then the shieldguard's job is to say "ok, now get me off of it, I dare you."

See what's on my painting table Now painting: Necron Crypothralls 
   
Made in us
Discriminating Deathmark Assassin






I started playing crons again after skipping them completely in 8E. I'm looking at the Dynastic Advisers ability for crypteks. I think it means if I have a battalion with 2 lords I can have 2 crypteks as well even though that exceeds the number of hq slots in the detachment. Am I misreading that?
   
Made in us
Cabin Zombie






Pretty much. If you have a Noble, every other Cryptek does not take up a slot.

 
   
Made in dk
Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker






 necron99 wrote:
I started playing crons again after skipping them completely in 8E. I'm looking at the Dynastic Advisers ability for crypteks. I think it means if I have a battalion with 2 lords I can have 2 crypteks as well even though that exceeds the number of hq slots in the detachment. Am I misreading that?

Yes, but you cannot have a Cryptek and 3 Lords or 2 Lords, Orikan and a Cryptek.
   
Made in us
Discriminating Deathmark Assassin






 vict0988 wrote:
 necron99 wrote:
I started playing crons again after skipping them completely in 8E. I'm looking at the Dynastic Advisers ability for crypteks. I think it means if I have a battalion with 2 lords I can have 2 crypteks as well even though that exceeds the number of hq slots in the detachment. Am I misreading that?

Yes, but you cannot have a Cryptek and 3 Lords or 2 Lords, Orikan and a Cryptek.


Can I have 2 lords and 2 crypteks? I built a battalion in battlescribe and it's saying I have too many hq's :(
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

No the way the free cryptek slots work is:

Detachment has Noble? Yes
Detachment has one Cryptek? Yes
Get free Cryptek slot for non-unique Cryptek.

In battlescribe it would go in the bit above HQs to avoid it yelling at you for too many hqs. If thats a battalion then yeah you can have 2 lords and 2 crypteks since its normally 3 HQs and the cryptek taking 1 slot allows a free slot for another cryptek.

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in gb
Deranged Necron Destroyer



UK, Midlands

 wuestenfux wrote:


Not sure if you really need sword and board Lychguard.
One issue is delivery and getting the charge.
In opposition to Skorpekh and Wraiths they are too slow.
I'll leave them home for other viable options.



Footslogging melee units no longer need a delivery system in 9th ed. They don't need to move more than 12" all game to play their part. Not that being faster isn't useful, it's just not essential like in previous editions where you needed to be able to cross the table and charge a gunline in two turns.

   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

Yeah if they need to move more than 12-16" at most either you deployed them way too far back or your opponent is not even trying to take the midfield objectives.

Lychguard with shields either charge something moving up the board, or park it on objectives and say "Hit me, i dare you" with their 2+/4++ in cover in some cases making it even harder and RP backup. They simply dont go down easily and will either keep holding that objective, blender whatever was there, or soak a considerable amount of firepower to get removed.

The amount of times my opponent just gave up trying to kill them is amusing, especially with a technomancer floating around.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/05/18 15:11:19


An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer



London

Yeah I’m not too worried about their speed, especially since they’ll be eternal expansionists. They’ll get to where they need to be.

They have some non-obvious benefits too. Nowadays they’re an unusually powerful model to be on a 32mm base. They’ll also continue to protect characters for longer, thanks to being a 10-bot unit instead of 5 or 6 skorpekhs or wraiths.
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Mandragola wrote:
Yeah I’m not too worried about their speed, especially since they’ll be eternal expansionists. They’ll get to where they need to be.

They have some non-obvious benefits too. Nowadays they’re an unusually powerful model to be on a 32mm base. They’ll also continue to protect characters for longer, thanks to being a 10-bot unit instead of 5 or 6 skorpekhs or wraiths.

But they have just two wounds each.
There are weapons out there with two damage like heavy bolters and so can eliminate single models in one volley.

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in de
Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian






Germany

Shieldguard in light cover still have a 2+ sv against AP-1 guns, nothing to worry about.
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

 p5freak wrote:
Shieldguard in light cover still have a 2+ sv against AP-1 guns, nothing to worry about.

So the consensus here seems that 10 Lychguard with shield and sword are mandatory?

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

i wouldnt say mandatory since they still arent cheap but pretty close to autotake imo

An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in gb
Deranged Necron Destroyer



UK, Midlands

Nah not auto take, just a really good unit worth considering in any list, and if you buy the kit they are the best thing to build with it (for now). They also fit well into both of the most common Necron lists; Eternal Expansionists and Novokh Warriors.


Speaking of which, I decided to try abandoning Command Protocols and combine both of these approaches into the same list:

Spoiler:
Novokh Patrol

Chronomancer, Veil of Darkness
Chronomancer

2x Cryptothralls
2x Cryptothralls

20x Warriors, Reapers
20x Warriors, Reapers


Eternal Expansionist Outrider

Anrakyr the Traveler
Illuminor Szeras

10x Lychguard, Shields
6x Skorpek Destroyers

3x Tomb Blades, Particle
3x Tomb Blades, Particle
3x Tomb Blades, Particle
5x Scarabs
5x Scarabs
5x Scarabs



Thanks to being Dynastic Agents, Anrakyr and Szeras can buff units from both detachments. They support the core of Novokh Warriors and ObSec Lychguard that hold a couple of primary objectives and score WWSWF.
The Obsec Scarabs and Tomb Blades jump onto enemy primary objectives to prevent them scoring in their command phase, whilst also being good for Engage or Domination.
The Cryptothralls Deploy Scramblers/Raise Banners/Engage.

I had a game against Space Wolves that went fairly to plan. We both scored well on secondaries, but I was able to prevent him scoring the primary by sacrificing a couple of 75pt Obsec units a turn. Having to clear those units out also prevented my opponent from focusing enough attention on my big blobs. Szeras was able to tidy up any chip damage that did go through, and got a bit lucky putting +1 T onto both Warrior blobs (Lychguard got BS lol). I think Anraky is worth it for the +1 A aura, but the only time it came up this game was when a Warrior Blob charged a Dreadnought and I gave them 60 attacks just to make sure.



This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2021/05/20 14:05:45


 
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






Lych are good. Mainly because they are durable. I prefer spiders for a slow melee unit as they have good shooting to boot and can kill vehicles too. Plus the cool abilities like phylactery hive - repairing themselves - and reanimating scarabs...Love them.

It is hard for lych to have a bad game though. Send them at an objective - they are gonna get stuck into melee for many turns.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

And yes, theres 2d guns out there. Vast majority of them are not going to want to fire at lychguard since they only got 1ap, or have way more AP so the invul kicks in and blocks half of it. Generally such guns are going after my tombblades, destroyers, or vehicles/canopteks i got in the list.
They do die. The thing is they have RP backing them up if they do, as i have never, ever lost more than 5 in a single volley and that was a mega expensive unit that shot them (more than they cost in the first place). Which case 2 just stood right back up. Themore that die w/o wiping the unit the more stand back up and make it less impactful of a shot.

That 4++ prevents any real hard counter to T5 2W models from completely removing them long enough for RP to kick in. Barring some really gak luck on your end of course. i'd say theyre a contender for the most durable unit in the game that isnt a character.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/05/20 14:09:16


An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Interesting list, plain and simple:
60 Warriors and 24 Scarabs supported by *mancers, Spyders and Thralls.

Spoiler:
2nd Place
Adam Napier – Ratcon 2021



++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Necrons) [97 PL, 2,000pts, 10CP] ++



Dynasty Choice: Circumstance of Awakening: Relentlessly Expansionist, Dynastic Tradition: Eternal Conquerors, Dynasty: <Custom>

+ No Force Org Slot +

Bound Creation [2 PL, 40pts]

. Cryptothralls

. . 2x Cryptothrall: 2x Scouring Eye, 2x Scythed Limbs

Bound Creation [2 PL, 40pts]

. Cryptothralls

. . 2x Cryptothrall: 2x Scouring Eye, 2x Scythed Limbs

Bound Creation [2 PL, 40pts]

. Cryptothralls

. . 2x Cryptothrall: 2x Scouring Eye, 2x Scythed Limbs

Dynastic Advisor [6 PL, 110pts]

. Chronomancer: Arkana: Countertemporal Nanomines, Entropic Lance

Dynastic Advisor [4 PL, 75pts, -1CP]

. Technomancer: Dynastic Heirlooms, Relic: Voltaic Staff

+ HQ +

Chronomancer [4 PL, 80pts]: Entropic Lance, Relic: Veil of Darkness

Chronomancer [5 PL, 105pts]: Arkana: Hypermaterial Ablator, Entropic Lance

Overlord [6 PL, 140pts, -1CP]: Dynastic Heirlooms, Relic: Orb of Eternity, Resurrection Orb, Voidscythe, Warlord, Warlord Trait (Codex 2): Eternal Madness

+ Troops +

Necron Warriors [12 PL, 260pts]

. 20x Necron Warrior (Gauss Reaper): 20x Gauss Reaper

Necron Warriors [12 PL, 260pts]

. 20x Necron Warrior (Gauss Reaper): 20x Gauss Reaper

Necron Warriors [12 PL, 260pts]

. 20x Necron Warrior (Gauss Reaper): 20x Gauss Reaper

+ Elites +

Canoptek Reanimator [4 PL, 80pts]

Canoptek Spyders [4 PL, 75pts]

. Canoptek Spyder: Gloom Prism, Two Particle Beamers

Canoptek Spyders [4 PL, 75pts]

. Canoptek Spyder: Gloom Prism, Two Particle Beamers

+ Fast Attack +

Canoptek Scarab Swarms [6 PL, 120pts]

. 8x Canoptek Scarab Swarm: 8x Feeder Mandibles

Canoptek Scarab Swarms [6 PL, 120pts]

. 8x Canoptek Scarab Swarm: 8x Feeder Mandibles

Canoptek Scarab Swarms [6 PL, 120pts]

. 8x Canoptek Scarab Swarm: 8x Feeder Mandibles

++ Total: [97 PL, 2,000pts, 10CP] ++

Former moderator 40kOnline

Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!

Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."

Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in bg
Regular Dakkanaut





There is an image floating around of alleged CA21. As I am unsure of the legality of uploading it, you will have to trust my word.

Inmortals to 16-17 (gauss-tesla)
Warriors 14.
   
 
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