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 Desubot wrote:
i mean rhino, razorbacks, storm raven denotes a kind of animal, but then drop pods, land speeder, land raider really dont.

There can also be a weather aspect to it, Whirlwind, Land Speeder Tornado, that sort of thing. Land Raider and Land Speeder were later given reasons for those names (ie. Land's Speeder, Land's Raider). This is just functionally descriptive, and as a result quite lacklustre.

Drop Pods, sure, I'll give you that one, but really they're about as mundane as Marines get.

 MLaw wrote:
People arguing about vehicles named after animals while I'm here waiting for stats on actual animals #gargantuansquiggoth

I can't see anyone arguing here. Discussing perhaps.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
There can also be a weather aspect to it, Whirlwind, Land Speeder Tornado, that sort of thing. Land Raider and Land Speeder were later given reasons for those names (ie. Land's Speeder, Land's Raider). This is just functionally descriptive, and as a result quite lacklustre.

Drop Pods, sure, I'll give you that one, but really they're about as mundane as Marines get.

Drop Pods are named after tech-priest Hieronymus Drop.

Hehe.

I could see them doing that.

 His Master's Voice wrote:
Someone down the thread guesstimated it to be 1 power point = 20 points, but that was for infantry I think.

I don't think that'll ever work out well.

Just for Space Wolves, there are quite a few units that are cross-wise in costs at power level and point costs.

For example:

Vanilla Rune Priest with default equipment = powerlevel 6 / points 84 (with his default axe, bolt pistol, etc..)
Vanilla Wolf Priest with default equipment = powerlevel 5 / points 90 (with crozium, etc..)

So the Wolf Priest is cheaper at powerlevel, the Rune Priest is cheaper in points.


It's harder with unit, due to variable equipment, but for example:

Wulfen with 1x Claws (leader has to have it) and 4x TH/SS = powerlevel 13 / points = 300

Wolf Guard Terminators, 1x pair of Wolf Claws (to match the Wulfen equipment) and 4x TH/SS = powerlevel 15 / points = 268

I.e. Terminators are cheaper in points, Wulfen are cheaper in power level.


Unless i am missing something obvious.

 Yodhrin wrote:
From the WoS transcript, re the gravtank:

Repulsor tank :
it's not a grav tank, it's nothing like a speeder.

Goddamnit Jes, why insult our intelligence like this. It's a floating tank with big plates on the bottom that generate lift and is propelled forward by big ol' turbine engines on the back, you might as well have called it the Land Floater, it's a gravtank. Frankly I'd prefer they just retcon inconvenient fluff rather than trying to make up new, hilariously unconvincing fluff to explain how a thing that is exactly the same as another thing is in fact totes different because look, we called it "repulsor" not "grav" - we can, much as it pains us to have to, ignore fluff we don't like; ignoring that you evidently seem to think we're drooling morons is a tad harder.

In the interview Jes was saying that it is not a 'grav tank' as in the Eldar one. The tech is different. Rather than using an anti grav field like the Eldar it is pushing the ground way (hence the name)The comparison given was that if an Eldar tank flew over glass it would be untouched, while the repulsor would shatter it. He also wanted to make it clear that it would not be very manoeuvrable.
This seemed reasonable to me. Why should anti grav tech be one size fits all?

Chikout wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
From the WoS transcript, re the gravtank:

Repulsor tank :
it's not a grav tank, it's nothing like a speeder.

Goddamnit Jes, why insult our intelligence like this. It's a floating tank with big plates on the bottom that generate lift and is propelled forward by big ol' turbine engines on the back, you might as well have called it the Land Floater, it's a gravtank. Frankly I'd prefer they just retcon inconvenient fluff rather than trying to make up new, hilariously unconvincing fluff to explain how a thing that is exactly the same as another thing is in fact totes different because look, we called it "repulsor" not "grav" - we can, much as it pains us to have to, ignore fluff we don't like; ignoring that you evidently seem to think we're drooling morons is a tad harder.

In the interview Jes was saying that it is not a 'grav tank' as in the Eldar one. The tech is different. Rather than using an anti grav field like the Eldar it is pushing the ground way (hence the name)The comparison given was that if an Eldar tank flew over glass it would be untouched, while the repulsor would shatter it. He also wanted to make it clear that it would not be very manoeuvrable.
This seemed reasonable to me. Why should anti grav tech be one size fits all?

That is reasonable, but out of curiosity how does the Land Speeder's grav tech work? Does it work like the Eldar grav tech or the Repulsor grav tech?

Wonderwolf wrote:

 His Master's Voice wrote:
Someone down the thread guesstimated it to be 1 power point = 20 points, but that was for infantry I think.

I don't think that'll ever work out well.

Just for Space Wolves, there are quite a few units that are cross-wise in costs at power level and point costs.

For example:

Vanilla Rune Priest with default equipment = powerlevel 6 / points 84 (with his default axe, bolt pistol, etc..)
Vanilla Wolf Priest with default equipment = powerlevel 5 / points 90 (with crozium, etc..)

So the Wolf Priest is cheaper at powerlevel, the Rune Priest is cheaper in points.

Now add in their options. The Wolf Priest only has options for a pistol/combi weapon and a Jump pack, so ~30 extra points. Rune priest gets the same 2 options but also can take Runic Armour, a Psychic hood and an upgraded Runic weapon as well, for potentially ~65 extra points. Power level (roughly) assumes about half of all options are taken by the model, so very ballpark that makes it:

Rune Priest approx 117 points
Wolf Priest approx 105 points

Power level 6 and 5 respectively looks correct !

Sorry for slightly off-topic, but "Repulsor" does also work as an aggressive, rather punnish name; yes, it 'repulses' away from the ground, but it also (hopefully!) repulses the enemy...

Vorian wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
From the WoS transcript, re the gravtank:

Repulsor tank :
it's not a grav tank, it's nothing like a speeder.

Goddamnit Jes, why insult our intelligence like this. It's a floating tank with big plates on the bottom that generate lift and is propelled forward by big ol' turbine engines on the back, you might as well have called it the Land Floater, it's a gravtank. Frankly I'd prefer they just retcon inconvenient fluff rather than trying to make up new, hilariously unconvincing fluff to explain how a thing that is exactly the same as another thing is in fact totes different because look, we called it "repulsor" not "grav" - we can, much as it pains us to have to, ignore fluff we don't like; ignoring that you evidently seem to think we're drooling morons is a tad harder.

You're taking the line completely out of context.

He was meaning that it's not like an Eldar grav tank that zooms about the place, it's not manoeuvrable and goes about the same speed as a Landraider.

Of course it was broadcast live, so it wasn't phrased exactly perfectly if someone later wanted to be an ass and comb through something to find something to complain about.... but it was completely obvious what was meant if you watched it

>Has a go at someone for not paying attention to context before responding.
>Doesn't bother reading post they're responding to properly to see it has the source listed right at the top there.

I read the transcript, which is all people not subbing to GW's Twitch have to go on. Toddle over and snark at WoS if you think Jes said something other than what's written there.

Chikout wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
From the WoS transcript, re the gravtank:

Repulsor tank :
it's not a grav tank, it's nothing like a speeder.

Goddamnit Jes, why insult our intelligence like this. It's a floating tank with big plates on the bottom that generate lift and is propelled forward by big ol' turbine engines on the back, you might as well have called it the Land Floater, it's a gravtank. Frankly I'd prefer they just retcon inconvenient fluff rather than trying to make up new, hilariously unconvincing fluff to explain how a thing that is exactly the same as another thing is in fact totes different because look, we called it "repulsor" not "grav" - we can, much as it pains us to have to, ignore fluff we don't like; ignoring that you evidently seem to think we're drooling morons is a tad harder.

In the interview Jes was saying that it is not a 'grav tank' as in the Eldar one. The tech is different. Rather than using an anti grav field like the Eldar it is pushing the ground way (hence the name)The comparison given was that if an Eldar tank flew over glass it would be untouched, while the repulsor would shatter it. He also wanted to make it clear that it would not be very manoeuvrable.
This seemed reasonable to me. Why should anti grav tech be one size fits all?

I don't see any mention of Eldar vehicles in the transcript quote there, I see a comparison being drawn with the speeder, a SM vehicle that previously has always been fluffed as using antigrav plating, and the implication is that the new vehicle doesn't use AG plate despite borrowing several design cues from the speeder including the gribblies on the bottom there that look very much like what used to be called grav plating, hence my comment.

Regardless, whatever it's called now the prior fluff was that the Imperium could no longer reliably manufacture military level Make Thingies All Floaty Like technology which was why only SM had Land Speeders and only Land Speeders were Floaty Thingies. If they wanted to change that status quo, I'd rather they simply ignore it as they do many other older bits of fluff than tell us suddenly there's a whole other type of Make Thingies All Floaty Like tech that the Imperium can make just fine and for some reason weren't using before now.

Oh, I was well aware you were having a go at him with only a brief summary. I also see that hadn't stopped you having a go at him about what he said despite not actually knowing what he said.

You didn't ask for a clarification about what he said, you posted that he was insulting our intelligence and other such nonsense.

like I said, what he meant was perfectly clear.

[MOD EDIT - RULE #1 - Alpharius]

 Yodhrin wrote:


Regardless, whatever it's called now the prior fluff was that the Imperium could no longer reliably manufacture military level Make Thingies All Floaty Like technology which was why only SM had Land Speeders and only Land Speeders were Floaty Thingies. If they wanted to change that status quo, I'd rather they simply ignore it as they do many other older bits of fluff than tell us suddenly there's a whole other type of Make Thingies All Floaty Like tech that the Imperium can make just fine and for some reason weren't using before now.

Why not.

The Imperium always used Grav Tech very reliably on all their Space Ships to create artificial gravity. No 40K space ship designs appears to use centrifugal designs to get people to "walk normally". Even the dingiest Rogue Trader ship has that stuff.

Can't be that rare. Switch the polarity from "create 1 g where there is none" (i.e. "pull") to "negate 1 g where it exists" (i.e. "push") and you're good to go.

Wonderwolf wrote:
The Imperium always used Grav Tech very reliably on all their Space Ships to create artificial gravity. No 40K space ship designs appears to use centrifugal designs to get people to "walk normally". Even the dingiest Rogue Trader ship has that stuff.

Can't be that rare. Switch the polarity from "create 1 g where there is none" (i.e. "pull") to "negate 1 g where it exists" (i.e. "push") and you're good to go.

You realize we are talking about ships kilometers long with more power output than you can shake at? See obvious reason why it's not as easy as you make it claim?

tneva82 wrote:


You realize we are talking about ships kilometers long with more power output than you can shake at? See obvious reason why it's not as easy as you make it claim?

Sure.

But not all ships are that large (though they are still larger than a tank). Even Thunderhawks flying in space appear to have access to it. And the technology seems widespread and reliable enough that even long forgotten corridors and nobody's-been-here-in-decades bilge compartments in larger ships have it, even long after things like basic lights are gone.

Hell, for plot purposes, it's usually the last and only tech still running on ships stuck for centuries in some Space Hulk, long after their reactors went dark.

So it doesn't "look" like its terribly arcane tech for the Imperium.

Grav guns and even grav pistols seem to use the technology (admittedly for short-duration "shots") on a miniaturization smaller than a tank without much of a problem. Also, Elysian Grav-chutes? Presumably same tech? Inferior version? They are disposable, right? So they'd have to have continuous production, no?

I am not saying it's an automatic conversion, but if you remove the cultish/quasi-religious stigma of not doing things of the pre-Gathering Storm Imperium, it doesn't seem outlandish for an enterprising Magos (or even Tech Marine) to adapt that tech to different energy demands.

Thebiggesthat wrote:
[MOD EDIT - RULE #1 - Alpharius]

More fun to point out baseless negativity

The interview did end up costing me money though, reminded me I needed to buy the Eldar sketchbook!


As for why Grav is back? They are infusing 40k with elements of the great crusade that RG is bringing.

Secularism, hope, the clean design of the Primaris, the one type of weapon per squad, now Grav. Whatever hand waving background explanation there is behind it, that's ultimately the real reason

Do they host those videos anywhere else? Because I might give them a browse, but i'm not paying to be advertised to.

Justyn wrote:
Do they host those videos anywhere else? Because I might give them a browse, but i'm not paying to be advertised to.

Not that I know of.


Though as somebody pointed out, you can get in for free if you already have an Amazon Prime account, which might be a help for some people.

https://twitch.amazon.com/prime

One of the cooler things I'm liking so far about the new rules is that I can finally make my Blood Ravens into the specific chapter they should be thanks to the keywords system.

I can now pull Librarian Dreadnoughts without having to ally, and I can convert up a squad of Librarians using the Dark Angels terminators and the grey knight rules.

The only downside is that a two-thirds of their psychic powers only effect their respective factions, but it will still be cool and more importantly 100% legal!

 Crimson wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
There can also be a weather aspect to it, Whirlwind, Land Speeder Tornado, that sort of thing. Land Raider and Land Speeder were later given reasons for those names (ie. Land's Speeder, Land's Raider). This is just functionally descriptive, and as a result quite lacklustre.

Drop Pods, sure, I'll give you that one, but really they're about as mundane as Marines get.

Drop Pods are named after tech-priest Hieronymus Drop.

I believe his first name was Geronimo.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 godswildcard wrote:
One of the cooler things I'm liking so far about the new rules is that I can finally make my Blood Ravens into the specific chapter they should be thanks to the keywords system.

I can now pull Librarian Dreadnoughts without having to ally, and I can convert up a squad of Librarians using the Dark Angels terminators and the grey knight rules.

The only downside is that a two-thirds of their psychic powers only effect their respective factions, but it will still be cool and more importantly 100% legal!

Are librarian dreads now a generic space marine entry?

 warboss wrote:

Are librarian dreads now a generic space marine entry?

No, but as you can freely mix everything with 'Imperium' faction keyword, it really doesn't matter. (Except for Ad Mech, who for some bizarre reason got to have pure Ad Mech detachment in order to be able to use canticles.)

 Crimson wrote:

 warboss wrote:

Are librarian dreads now a generic space marine entry?

No, but as you can freely mix everything with 'Imperium' faction keyword, it really doesn't matter. (Except for Ad Mech, who for some bizarre reason got to have pure Ad Mech detachment in order to be able to use canticles.)

For a second I was going to freak out because my Ad Mech list has a Knight Warden in it. Then I remembered he is in a separate detachment.

It is actually rather annoying, considering that Ad Mech has exactly one non-special character HQ available.

Question: If you take the neutron laser + cognis heavy stubber upgrade on dunecrawler, can you take ANOTHER heavy stubber since the first is part of the neutron laser? So you would be firing 6 shots?

Also if you can take 2, do you pay for both or does 1 come as part of the neutron laser?

 Crimson wrote:
It is actually rather annoying, considering that Ad Mech has exactly one non-special character HQ available.

Oh I agree wholeheartedly. I think the Techpriest Enginseer should have been an HQ. I wish they would go ahead and make a Skitarii Alpha Prime model and Datasheet. Tyranids get their Prime (even though there isn't a kit for it) but Skitarii don't. That is just lame.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 RoboDragon wrote:
Question: If you take the neutron laser + cognis heavy stubber upgrade on dunecrawler, can you take ANOTHER heavy stubber since the first is part of the neutron laser? So you would be firing 6 shots?

Also if you can take 2, do you pay for both or does 1 come as part of the neutron laser?

Yes you can. And you have to buy both.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
It is actually rather annoying, considering that Ad Mech has exactly one non-special character HQ available.

Oh I agree wholeheartedly. I think the Techpriest Enginseer should have been an HQ. I wish they would go ahead and make a Skitarii Alpha Prime model and Datasheet. Tyranids get their Prime (even though there isn't a kit for it) but Skitarii don't. That is just lame.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 RoboDragon wrote:
Question: If you take the neutron laser + cognis heavy stubber upgrade on dunecrawler, can you take ANOTHER heavy stubber since the first is part of the neutron laser? So you would be firing 6 shots?

Also if you can take 2, do you pay for both or does 1 come as part of the neutron laser?

Yes you can. And you have to buy both.

There is a Tyranid Prime kit - distinctive body and head parts in the Warriors kit.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
It is actually rather annoying, considering that Ad Mech has exactly one non-special character HQ available.

Oh I agree wholeheartedly. I think the Techpriest Enginseer should have been an HQ. I wish they would go ahead and make a Skitarii Alpha Prime model and Datasheet. Tyranids get their Prime (even though there isn't a kit for it) but Skitarii don't. That is just lame.

I'm okay with the Enginseer being an Elite. They're not "full" Priests. The "Knights of the Imperium" novel has the Techpriests of the Forge World looking down upon the Knight Sacristans(said to be similar to Enginseers) as "pretenders" and "rote mechanics".

I don't think we'll see a Skitarii Alpha Prime until we see a full book for the AdMech. Hopefully it would be an interesting design/loadout.

Hmm... I think there's a secutarii prime? We might get that as a cheap HQ as of fires of cyraxus.

Crimson wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
There can also be a weather aspect to it, Whirlwind, Land Speeder Tornado, that sort of thing. Land Raider and Land Speeder were later given reasons for those names (ie. Land's Speeder, Land's Raider). This is just functionally descriptive, and as a result quite lacklustre.

Drop Pods, sure, I'll give you that one, but really they're about as mundane as Marines get.

Drop Pods are named after tech-priest Hieronymus Drop.

Ah! Hieronymus Drop, also inventor of the Skrillex-pattern Vox. He spoke in pure dubstep.

 JohnnyHell wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
It is actually rather annoying, considering that Ad Mech has exactly one non-special character HQ available.

Oh I agree wholeheartedly. I think the Techpriest Enginseer should have been an HQ. I wish they would go ahead and make a Skitarii Alpha Prime model and Datasheet. Tyranids get their Prime (even though there isn't a kit for it) but Skitarii don't. That is just lame.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 RoboDragon wrote:
Question: If you take the neutron laser + cognis heavy stubber upgrade on dunecrawler, can you take ANOTHER heavy stubber since the first is part of the neutron laser? So you would be firing 6 shots?

Also if you can take 2, do you pay for both or does 1 come as part of the neutron laser?

Yes you can. And you have to buy both.

There is a Tyranid Prime kit - distinctive body and head parts in the Warriors kit.

Huh, I was not aware of that.

 EnTyme wrote:

Crimson wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
There can also be a weather aspect to it, Whirlwind, Land Speeder Tornado, that sort of thing. Land Raider and Land Speeder were later given reasons for those names (ie. Land's Speeder, Land's Raider). This is just functionally descriptive, and as a result quite lacklustre.

Drop Pods, sure, I'll give you that one, but really they're about as mundane as Marines get.

Drop Pods are named after tech-priest Hieronymus Drop.

Ah! Hieronymus Drop, also inventor of the Skrillex-pattern Vox. He spoke in pure dubstep.

Noise Marines confirmed inventors of the Drop Pod.