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This is a topic that I've been thinking about for a while.  There's lots of things about GW that I don't like, a few things that upset, and one or two that make me far more angry than a toy company should be able to.

That said, there are a few things that GW does or has done well in the past.  Here's a few that I've thought of, and if anybody can think of anything else, it might help some of us remember why we got into/stay in the hobby.  And yes, you can make as long or longer a list of things that GW does that hurt/annoy gamers, I just like taking the tough challenge!

1) Plastic cavalry.  In a game with $22 single piece characters, getting 8 highly detailed multi-part plastic cavalry for $35 is refreshing.  The knights of the realm box is the winner here, IMO, but even the aging Knightly Orders and Silver Helms are good.  the Glade riders are nice, it's too bad nobody uses them.  Even Wolfboyz are nice for the price. 

2) A few of the Battalion/Battle Force boxes.  As predicted, after the price drop a few are being repackaged (brets), but the Ogre Kingdom box is a decent bargain, as is the Tau, Ravenwing, Tomb King and Lizardmen sets. 

3) The rules for WFB: It's solid and tactically rewarding.  Every edition really does get better.

4) The idea of the GW hobby.  Hear me out: GW likes to emphasize different aspects of the hobby, such as conversions, painting, terrain, tactics, army building, etc.  While at it's worst this is used to dumb down 40k and eliminate GTs in the US, at it's best it really allows a variety of people to come to an event and have a moment to shine.

5) The fluff:  Call it backstory, call it theme, but GW can do it.  While the Old World is a little "Generic fantasy world", the 40k universe manages to steal outright from every bit of english literature from Paradise Lost to Star Wars, it's a distincly unique universe.  One of it's best aspects is the vagueness and the blank spots on the map, places from which armies can spring, no matter how insane a players idea is.  This is the one area where, IMHO, GW has PP beat.  While warmachine is a hell of a rule set, people play the armies.  People seem to live their GW armies.  Converting, writing background, inventing paint schemes, etc, etc.


Well, that's what I've come up with.  I'd be interested to see what others come up.

1) The fluff. It's amazing. Especially with 40K. The Fantasy fluff is a little generic, but 40K is definitely inspired.

2) Battlefleet Gothic. It's an incredibly fun game, easy, quick to paint, cheap to buy. The fluff is all there too and the ornate, gothic ship designs are incredibly.

3) WFB Rules - Agreed on all counts.

4) Making the hobby appealing. The prospect of learning how to assembly models, paint them, learn a new rules system and find other players can be pretty daunting when you're new. GW makes all this much easier and guides you through the process.

5) Made in the US/UK. For some people this isn't a factor, but I like to support local communities and businesses. I don't mind paying a bit extra for GW over Battlefield Evo if it means providing employment for people I know (which indirectly helps me - if the American economy is doing well it means more work and more money for me).

Posted By Polonius on 04/30/2007 6:40 PM
4) The idea of the GW hobby.  Hear me out: GW likes to emphasize different aspects of the hobby, such as conversions, painting, terrain, tactics, army building, etc.  While at it's worst this is used to dumb down 40k and eliminate GTs in the US, at it's best it really allows a variety of people to come to an event and have a moment to shine.

From a marketing point of view, this is in my opinion their greatest achievement.

The fact that they have successfully brainwashed so many of their followers into seeing their games as a 'GW hobby' is a brilliant way of removing competition, and steering people towards over-priced add-on sales that they could get elsewhere at a third of the price...

They don't have to be better or cheaper at everything than the alternatives. They simply have to stop you from even considering that there are alternatives... You're not particpating in 'Wargaming'... you're a part of the 'GW Hobby'

From a marketing point of view, this is in my opinion their greatest achievement.

The fact that they have successfully brainwashed so many of their followers into seeing their games as a 'GW hobby' is a brilliant way of removing competition, and steering people towards over-priced add-on sales that they could get elsewhere at a third of the price...

They don't have to be better or cheaper at everything than the alternatives. They simply have to stop you from even considering that there are alternatives... You're not particpating in 'Wargaming'... you're a part of the 'GW Hobby'

So in other words GW does the whole evil brainwashing thing really well. 

I'd add that they've cultivated a following that is consistantly available.  I've never lived in a place that didn't have a decently active GW community, a lot of other Wargaming systems can be hard to find opponents for.

1) Customer service. if something goes wrong, historically they fix it quickly.

2) the games they once made but no longer actively support. Space hulk, necromunda, maordheim, BFG. Great games which could be better with more support. Instead, they sink their (our) resources into LOTR. While a decent game, it doesnt have the expansion potential that BFG, morheim, necromunda, etc has. LOTR longevity isnt as good as specialist games.

3) the background for their games. Simply fabulous. if they put as much effort into their rules as they do fluff, it would be so much better.

The Games Workshop hobby itself. Only Star Wars and naked women have held my interest longer.

Posted By Hellfury on 04/30/2007 8:28 PM
1) Customer service. if something goes wrong, historically they fix it quickly.

Very true. Every time I've had a box missing a bit, they've shipped it within days free of charge.

-The fluff. I know GW now wants to get away from the whole "fantasy in space" genre but it's fairly fresh and innovative, IMO. Don't get me wrong, I like aliens and hitech and every other scifi cliche but it's kind of cool to see elves and dwarves in that setting.

-Specialist Games. While it sucks that GW doesn't make anywhere near enough minis for these games or give them the support they deserve, at least they haven't messed with games that aren't broken. If they had, we'd be on Necromunda v.4, Mordheim 5 ed., etc. Sometimes it's best to let sleeping dogs lie...

Posted By Jester on 04/30/2007 8:35 PM
The Games Workshop hobby itself. Only Star Wars and naked women have held my interest longer.

Quoted for truthery.

Some of these are repeats, but what the hell, it's the internet...

1. Customer service. They will replace a missing/broken/wrong piece right-quick, will let you keep the wrong stuff (a friend of mine ended up with 9 IG sgts with plasma pistols that way) and may even send you something else cool to make amends.

2. Specialist games. Necromunda, Gorkamorka, Blood Bowl, BFG, Warhammer Quest etc. All of the little games they produced were all great games, and those that are still 'supported' continue to thrive as free rules.

3. Warhammer Ancients. As much as people complain about LOTR, they took a new game mechanism and have applied it to their historical systems, and it's top notch. Even true GW hatas LOVE WAB

4. Gateway to the hobby: most of those GW Hatas--especially those historicals players--played a GW game first. Maybe it was 40k, maybe it was Space Hulk, maybe it was 20 years ago, but before they were painting 15mm Napoleonics, they were throwing dice over space orks. GW, arguably, has brought more people into miniatures gaming that just about anything else over the last 30 years, and I doubt we'd have Warmachine and Confrontation, never mind No Limits/Quarter, 5150, Hasslefree, Gamezone, and all the myriad of REALLY GOOD small games and figures producers. Additionally, they raised the bar on quality; 3rd-4th ed fantasy figs are still some of the most gorgeous, and the Eldar Dreadnought/Wraithlord held up for over 12 years (hell, the Jetbike is still going strong and it's a 13-year old model already). While some of us find the new plastic cult disturbing, a lot of those old GW figs have held up just fine.

They raise prices REALLY well.

ender502

The best thing is that there are a lot of people who play. No matter where you live or move to you'll probably be able to find some group to play with.

Paints.

They have had some of the best miniatures ever produced. And they have supported the painting/converting aspect of the hobby, via the Golden Daemon competitions, to a degree no other company has come close to.




Now, GW has always been a bit hit-or-miss... I'm not forgetting such truly stunning miniatures such as Nagash (or Smiley the Death Clown, if you prefer), nor am I saying that Rackham & Privateer Press aren't giving GW a run for our money. But for a very long time, if you wanted good quality, or even decent quality miniatures, GW was the solid reliable source. As I wrote, I wondered if this was to be more of a nostalgic post, but I think the new Harlequins are damn fine sculpts. GW can still produce excellent figures.
[Edit] I just noticed Syr making the same point. I have nothing useful to add.

[Edit again] ditto to pnweer.  I spent most of the evening trying out the brand new Foundation Paints, and for the first time in a looong time, I feel like I've gotten my money's worth from a GW paint.

I can't believe that no one has mentioned the Archive Service yet. Yes, I know it's not what it once was, but it's still very impressive the sheerly hugely titanic selection of OLD old miniatures you can buy. Miniatures older than some members of this board, I'll warrant. And the ability to order individual bitz? Awesome.

For example, I just ordered the tail - JUST THE TAIL, MIND YOU - of a Giant Scorpion miniature that came out, when? Well, I'm not sure. It was in the 1991 catalogue, though. A couple months back I ordered a genestealer patriarch and some hybrids; miniatures without rules support since 2nd edition 40K. As a collector, I really appreciate this the archive service (or whatever it's called nowadays). Wish they had Epic minis, though.

Posted By Pariah Press on 04/30/2007 11:16 PM
I can't believe that no one has mentioned the Archive Service yet. Yes, I know it's not what it once was, 

That's the understatement of the year

When I first started playing 40K, the Archive service and GW's big bumper catalogues included every miniature they had ever produced for their games.

The current service is but a pale shadow of its former glory...

Still, it's quite a good service; just not as good as it was a few years ago. When I saw that list on virtualalchemist.com of all of the items they were removing from the archive, I just about cried...

Its ok but like insaniak said its not as good as it used to be. nothing worse then finding an old catalogue and seeing a cool mini and then being told they dont have the mold for it anymore.

I like the way they weren't afraid to make multiple scales of game in the one setting-
Inquisitor-Necromunda-Combat Patrol-Warhammer 40K-Epic-Gothic and
Warhammer Quest-Mordhiem-Warhammer-Warmaster-Man O' War

GW has single handedly influenced other miniatures games to drastically improve the level of terrain and painting. I remember not long ago when paper circles for hills and forests and green painted cardboard bases were the norm for Ancients and historicals. Not any more.

This may sound cynical, but the best stuff that GW does they actually don't do any more.

• Necromunda.
• Blood Bowl.
• Battlefleet Gothic
• Space Hulk
• Warhammer Quest (oh how I miss thee!)

All the best stuff GW has produced is no longer looked at. All we get now is Codex: Dark Angels. Yay.

[EDIT]: Actually, thought of another thing. Terrain. I'm a complete junkie for GW terrain. Were I made of money I would own every FW terrain piece twice over. I've got hundreds of dollars worth of CoD stuff. Necromunda scenery. Trees. Hills. Ruins. Bunkers. Everything. I love it all.

BYE

While I have been as active a GW-basher as any on this forum, I do wholeheartedly recognise the debt that modern wargaming owes to the company:

1/ They brought wargaming out of the closet and onto the high street. Geek pride! My serious point being that because of GW, wargames as a whole are more accessible and a higher profile now than they were in the 80's.

2/ The showed how it was possible to have well-painted models and nicely made terrain at a reasonable cost through publications such as WD (remember "Tabletop Heroes" in the old days?) As was mentioned before - flat colours on models, and minimal terrain was the order of the day before that.

These items are in the past though. The market place now is the market place now, and GW have to bring more to the party to continue to justify their place.

What they add uniquely now is

3/ 40k and WFB (but not to anywhere near the same extent LotR - which is perhaps why it is unliked by many 40k/WFB players) encourage a certain level of creativity regarding paint schemes, fluff, conversions and the like. For years the only way to get many options in a Codex was to kit bash it. This enforced creativity was/is actually a plus point for many. Personally I'm not bothered in conversions myself, but I can see the attraction for those that like it. This level of player-involvement is lacking in most competitor games such as Confrontation and WARMACHINE/HORDES where the models and fluff are fixed by the manufacturer.

4/ Their wide range of games (still) supported is good - you can still buy BFG, Epic, Necro, BB, etc. Not many companies have such a wide range of games you can buy into that are not just licenced products.

So much for the good stuff.

I only wish they woudln't gouge their prices so much, and that they hadn't overstretched their existing games' capacity beyond breaking point!

1. Raised the quality of miniature sculpting so that 6mm figures now have as much detail on them as 25mm did 30 years ago.
2. Did a similar job on raising the standards of painting.
3. Created a major high street presence and a "One Stop Shop" for tabletop games.
4. Supported all aspects of wargaming including building terrain, shows and tournaments, and so on.
5. Some very good board type games (Space Hulk, Judge Dredd etc.) though this seems to have gone away now.
6. Improved production standards of books and packaging with colour, better art and so on.

These factors seem to spilled over and benefitted historical and non-GW-hobby wargaming.

I heard some great points. I completely forgot about the COD terrain, which looks great primed black with a quick drybrush dark grey. I haven't tried the new foundation paints, but I keep hearing good things.

One thing I forgot to mention: GW's LOTR line is probobly the nicest middle earth miniatures ever made, and I've got a stack of old mithrils that I painted. Admittedly, they had the movies design to base their stuff off of, but the ability to capture that look is impressive.

I also can't believe I forgot about Bloodbowl. Man, that's a fun game.

It's hard to overstate how great the fluff is, especially in 40k. I think if you gave the average person a 40 codex, they'd be intrigued. My roomate has probably read them all more recently than I have, and he's never rolled a die in his life.

Posted By Kilkrazy on 05/01/2007 6:03 AM

6. Improved production standards of books and packaging with colour, better art and so on.

I'm not sure that GW can be credited with leading the pack on this one.  In my opinion GW has been doing "catch-up" in this area for some time now, and when you look at the artwork for the likes of Rackham, and (say) Prime Remix, then GW appears (to my eyes) somewhat lacking.

Even in the early days I'm not sure GW art was ahead of the game really.  Maybe for a period in the mid-90's, but by then GW was in its "Orange" phase and I really, really hated their choices.  Perhaps their creation of the 'Eavy Metal team of professional miniatures painters with its regular exposure in WD pushed the boundariest out a bit?  Maybe?

I'm thinking back to the late 80s when GW was streaks ahead of anyone except someone big like Avalon Hill or MB Games.

Many miniatures games were little better than photocopies of typewritten text. This period was when GW set the pace and the quality of Rackham etc. now is because they took the example, caught up and maybe overtook them.

For a historical comparison, look at the original DBA rules and the new DBMM rules.

I dunno.
I feel the fluff is verging on too extreme these days.
It doesn't appeal to me as much as it used to.
It's definitely not as good as the background material I've read in RPGs.

The fluff was always verging on the extreme. While there were always little nuggets of good material , a lot of it was utter crap. Fun crap mind you, but crap nonetheless.

I forgot to mention the other thing GW is good at: making me unhappy (and unhappiness means I still care!).

Nowadays it's all doom, gloom and everybody eating their own faces.
And people call it "Gothic".
Pffft.

I like the Dark Angel codex layout GW has come up with.

From what I read here it seems to be the front edge of a trend I like as far as simplifying the game goes. I remember in the old Rogue Trader days every army had a mish mash of wargear that went into ridiculous extremes. I thought it pretty off balanced to see Genestealer armies sporting terminator armor and fielding powers that could take away their opponents shooting phases throughout the course of a game. That was just one example among many from the early days, but GW decided to make things more organized and started getting away from that in 2nd edition. When the game first started changing back then,a lot of people were as pissed about it as people are now and vowed they'd never play again, get rid of their figs, not buy anything GW, ect. It seems when the dust settles after each new version is put out, people realize that they actually like the way it plays and get back into the game.
There's a lot more competition out there nowadays, but at least in my area, a lot of the same people that buy Warmachine and the other new games still put a lot of money into GW products.