Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
Oh, yeah Stelek. Spamming is great way to get to the top tables, but once there, you'll either be facing other spammers or people who know how to deal with it.
Tournament requirements are tricky, depending upon the nature of the cheese people are bringing. Both scatbikes and conscripts are troops, which makes it frightfullly difficult to engineer against them.
Martel732 wrote: Oh, yeah Stelek. Spamming is great way to get to the top tables, but once there, you'll either be facing other spammers or people who know how to deal with it.
Tournament requirements are tricky, depending upon the nature of the cheese people are bringing. Both scatbikes and conscripts are troops, which makes it frightfullly difficult to engineer against them.
That's the fun! Take Kroot Hounds and FireWarriors to handle the hordes and Supremeacy Railguns for the Super Heavies! =) Then you break the Scatterbikes with lots of Rail Rifle shots.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/05 18:58:27
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
Tournament requirements really hammer armies with no solutions in their troops, though. Like marines. Marine troops are god-awful. I'd kill for firewarriors. This makes Tau a lot more viable in a comp format.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/10/05 18:57:25
Martel732 wrote: Tournament requirements really hammer armies with no solutions in their troops, though. Like marines. Marine troops are god-awful. I'd kill for firewarriors. This makes Tau a lot more viable in a comp format.
Fire Warriors are very good and given that so many things would be wounding on 5's anyways, the Fire Warriors are in the sweet spot. I like them a lot in the 8th Edition.
I play Chaos Space Marines and I have 6 units of Chaos Marines, each with a Lascannon. I find them to be pretty sturdy platforms. I also find people a lot less willing to shoot at them because there is a fair number of targets otherwise that are doing good things. So the production I get from my Chaao Space Marine units is pretty darn healthy. I think it's a priority thing. At the start of every game the enemy is at full strength. So they are going to aim their big guns at big things because they know you will be knocking those big guns out quite soon if given half a chance. But with Chaos Space Marines you gotta kill at least four before you get to something that matters and in cover, they are sporting 2+ saves which forces the enemies big guns to be used against a target they'd sooner not. So the Chaos Marines tend to stay safe and scoring throughout my games quite often while the enemy tries to kill the 2 Havocs, the Defiler, the 15 terminators...
I think fire Warriors on the other hand are BOTH not as tough AND not as well armored which collectively makes them far easier to sweep away and so enemies have more more motivation to try. Same goes for Cultists. If I have a unit thats mediocre but with good volume its an easy thing to drop cultists as an afetrthought whereas Chaos Marines require much more than an afterthought of your army to try and kill.
So I think the usefulness of the Marines is determined largely by whats around them more than they themselves.
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
I'd kill the havocs, defiler, and 15 terminators first and then kill the helpless CSM at my leisure. If I had a good list, at any rate. Marines just aren't scary. 30 marines with 6 lascannons is expensive for their throw weight. They're very ignorable until the real threats are dealt with.
Facing 100 firewarriors, all targets are the same, and so I can't even make decisions lol. I don't think firewarriors are that much easier to sweep away in practice. The fact that you probably have over twice as many (you have to buy marines upgrades) more than makes up for their T and armor. 8th ed is about stressing the number of dice your opponent can throw. Marines are miserable at throwing large numbers of dice.
So, yeah, I'd consider your 5 man squads godawful in comparison to fire warriors.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/05 19:25:42
Martel732 wrote: The railgun on the hammerhead is still not sufficiently destructive. It should have been a D weapon in 7th, and it should cause catastrophic damage to anything it hits. Like D6+6 wounds or something like that.
Having the railing become a D weapon would be broken. A straight additional +6 would be insane for the gun. But the current on a role of a 6 get +X need to change. The mechanic is good but the result should be on a 4+. If we wanted to hold true to some old school railgun action a flat ability to ignore cover on a single shot would be nice. Because you know giant mass accelator.
Shoot them.
Shoot them some more.
Then ask the survivors to join the Greater Good.
Why is D6+6 not reasonable for a weapon literally as big as some of its targets? It should just be costed to match. D would not have been broken in an edition where Eldar kept D weapons in their vehicle glove boxes.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/05 19:36:36
Martel732 wrote: Why is D6+6 not reasonable for a weapon literally as big as some of its targets? It should just be costed to match. D would not have been broken in an edition where Eldar kept D weapons in their vehicle glove boxes.
Exalted
D6+6 normal wounds or D6 + 6 mortal wounds? on the 6+ wound getting d3 bonus mortal wounds is both good, and not that meaningful. Bonus mortal wound is nice, but against anything important 3 wounds isn't all that terrible from 1 heavy support. getting 6 mortal wounds is probably OP, but when you only get it on a successful wound roll of 6+ on a 1 shot gun.. then it isn't that outrageous, but it is.. can armor/invul save all 6 damage from the wound but still take 6 mortal wounds and insta-kill a commander/captain. but needing 2 railgun to hit rolls of 6 and then further to damage via mortal wounds of 5+ seems to murder it.
Martel732 wrote: I'd kill the havocs, defiler, and 15 terminators first and then kill the helpless CSM at my leisure. If I had a good list, at any rate. Marines just aren't scary. 30 marines with 6 lascannons is expensive for their throw weight. They're very ignorable until the real threats are dealt with.
Facing 100 firewarriors, all targets are the same, and so I can't even make decisions lol. I don't think firewarriors are that much easier to sweep away in practice. The fact that you probably have over twice as many (you have to buy marines upgrades) more than makes up for their T and armor. 8th ed is about stressing the number of dice your opponent can throw. Marines are miserable at throwing large numbers of dice.
So, yeah, I'd consider your 5 man squads godawful in comparison to fire warriors.
And yet, my Chaos army has lost all of two games (Magnus list got me, this week in fact). I feel like you're underestimating it a great deal.
as for Fire Warriors: they are great, as I said. I have 32 fire warriors in my list now, just two more than i have Chaos Marines. I assure you, they go away noticably faster than Chaos Marines.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/05 21:05:51
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
I got to play 7 very interesting and high level games in Paris during tournaments recently, and here is bit of random feedback. (Also when I say high level play I mean the entire French ETC team was there, I played against the French #1, etc...)
I'll skip the obvious things like Commanders and such.
-The Riptide is really unusable. I've been thinking it and saying it for a while, got convinced to still field one, and it screwed me hard on those 7 games. (out of which I will come out with 3 victories and 4 defeats) It just doesn't do any damage, and that was 324 points of no damage.
-Kroot Hounds are formidable in every role they play.
-Breachers are fantastic units, much superior to Strike Teams imho.
-Ghostkeel Fusion is a beast
-Vespids are beasts but be careful how to use them, they tend to not survive long.
-Broadsides HRR are okay, but so unreliable it's very frustrating.
-Stealths are dope.
-Shield Drones are straight out busted, unless you play with conventions that count kill points in the final result. Those tournaments did, and losing 10 of those from Shield Drones going protocol hurt. I lost a game just from that, even though I was winning on Eternal War and Maelstrom (combined scenarios).
Overall I think T'au is solid, but it's impossible to have a balanced list and hard to be well above 50% winrate. I'm not saying that just out of those 7 games, but out of the around 20-30 I've played in tournaments since 8th is out.
With the list I was using, I went 20-0 against all my Space Marines opponents but one. And lost dramatically against hordes army. In the near future I'm gonna switch my list towards a anti horde build and see how that goes.
That's unsurprising news, possibly aside from Breachers, but it's definitely good to have some confirmation against high-level competition. What list did you use?
MilkmanAl wrote: That's unsurprising news, possibly aside from Breachers, but it's definitely good to have some confirmation against high-level competition. What list did you use?
This with a mandatory Battalion detachment and no more than one of each entry beside troops :
Spoiler:
Battalion Detachment –
QG –
QG 1 : Commander Shadowsun (167) – 2 Fusion Blasters (0), 2 MV52 Shield Drones (2x11), [187] – Seigneur de Guerre.
QG 2 : Ethereal (45) with Honour Blade (0), 2 Shield Drones (2x8) [61]
QG 3 : Commander (76) avec 4 Fusion Blasters (4x21), 2 Shield Drones (2x8) [176]
ELITE –
Elite 1 : XV95 Ghostkeel Battlesuit (82) – Fusion Collider (44), 2 Fusion Blasters (2x21), Target Lock (12), Multi-Tracker (10), 2 MV5 Stealth Drones (2x10) [210]
Elite 2 : XV25 Stealth Battlesuits : 5 Stealth Shas’ui et 1 Stealth Shas’vre (6x20), avec 4 Burst Cannon (4x10), 2 Fusion Blasters (2x21), 6 Multi-Trackers (6x2), 2 Shield Drones (2x8) [230]
Elite 3 : XV104 Riptide Battlesuit (209) – Heavy Burst Cannon (55), 2 Fusion Blasters (2x21), Target Lock (12), Stimulant Injectors (5) [323]
TROUPES –
Troupe 1 : Strike Team : 7x Fire Warriors et 1 Fire Warrior Shas’ui (8x8) avec 8 Pulse Rifles (0), 8 Photon Grenades (0), 1 Pulse Pistol (0), 1 Markerlight (3), 2 Shield Drones (2x8) [83]
Troupe 2 : Strike Team : 7x Fire Warriors et 1 Fire Warrior Shas’ui (8x8) avec 8 Pulse Rifles (0), 8 Photon Grenades (0), 1 Pulse Pistol (0), 1 Markerlight (3), 2 Shield Drones (2x8) [83]
Troupe 3 : Breacher Team : 5x Fire Warriors et 1 Fire Warrior Shas’ui (6x8) avec 6 Pulse Blaster (0), 6 Photon Grenades (0), 1 Pulse Pistol (0) [48]
FA –
Attaque Rapide 1 : Pathfinder Team : 9x Pathfinders et 1 Pathfinder Shas’ui (10x5) avec 10 Markerlights (10x3), 10 Pulse Carbines (0), 10 Photon Grenades (0), 1 Pulse Pistol (0) [80]
Attaque Rapide 2 : Kroot Hounds : 8x Hounds (8x4) [32]
Attaque Rapide 3 : Vespid Stingwings : 8x Vespid Stingwings et 1 Strain Leader (9x15) avec 9 Neutron Blasters (0) [135]
HEAVY SUPPORT –
HEAVY SUPPORT 1 : XV88 Broadside Battlesuit : 2 Broadsides (2x80), avec 2 Heavy Rail Rifles (2x63), 4 Plasma Rifles (4x11), 2 Velocity Trackers (2x2), 2 Shield Drones (2x8) [350]
TOTAL - 2000
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/16 18:31:25
They have absolutely no reason not to advance in most rounds making them as fast as a Wave Serpent on the average.
They do 5.33 wounds in a single round for 48 points that are -1 AP.
The unit is 12 strong, so it is large enough to enciircle an overly aggressive Flyer, and kill everyone inside if your other units can shoot it down.
There isn't a meaner little road block to hold enemies in place with the Insane Bravery Strategem and there's enough bodies to survive almost any counter for a round.
The Kroot Hounds can form the absolutely critical halo around your firebase to ensure deep Strikers are left out in the open and not within "juice" range of things like Fusion Blasters if they want to get close.
The Kroot Hounds are excellent for Line Breaking units if you keep them out of the fight for a bit. their speed manes you can wait until the bottom of the third turn to send them streaking to the other side and in the meantime they can just lurk if allowed.
They often panic an enemy into shooting them rather than keping their eye on the ball downfield. As long as you dont make them the ONLY target, this is useful in ablating enemy fire.
Have I missed any of the excellent things you can say about them?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/20 22:19:30
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
MilkmanAl wrote: That's unsurprising news, possibly aside from Breachers, but it's definitely good to have some confirmation against high-level competition. What list did you use?
This with a mandatory Battalion detachment and no more than one of each entry beside troops :
Spoiler:
Battalion Detachment –
QG –
QG 1 : Commander Shadowsun (167) – 2 Fusion Blasters (0), 2 MV52 Shield Drones (2x11), [187] – Seigneur de Guerre.
QG 2 : Ethereal (45) with Honour Blade (0), 2 Shield Drones (2x8) [61]
QG 3 : Commander (76) avec 4 Fusion Blasters (4x21), 2 Shield Drones (2x8) [176]
ELITE –
Elite 1 : XV95 Ghostkeel Battlesuit (82) – Fusion Collider (44), 2 Fusion Blasters (2x21), Target Lock (12), Multi-Tracker (10), 2 MV5 Stealth Drones (2x10) [210]
Elite 2 : XV25 Stealth Battlesuits : 5 Stealth Shas’ui et 1 Stealth Shas’vre (6x20), avec 4 Burst Cannon (4x10), 2 Fusion Blasters (2x21), 6 Multi-Trackers (6x2), 2 Shield Drones (2x8) [230]
Elite 3 : XV104 Riptide Battlesuit (209) – Heavy Burst Cannon (55), 2 Fusion Blasters (2x21), Target Lock (12), Stimulant Injectors (5) [323]
TROUPES –
Troupe 1 : Strike Team : 7x Fire Warriors et 1 Fire Warrior Shas’ui (8x8) avec 8 Pulse Rifles (0), 8 Photon Grenades (0), 1 Pulse Pistol (0), 1 Markerlight (3), 2 Shield Drones (2x8) [83]
Troupe 2 : Strike Team : 7x Fire Warriors et 1 Fire Warrior Shas’ui (8x8) avec 8 Pulse Rifles (0), 8 Photon Grenades (0), 1 Pulse Pistol (0), 1 Markerlight (3), 2 Shield Drones (2x8) [83]
Troupe 3 : Breacher Team : 5x Fire Warriors et 1 Fire Warrior Shas’ui (6x8) avec 6 Pulse Blaster (0), 6 Photon Grenades (0), 1 Pulse Pistol (0) [48]
FA –
Attaque Rapide 1 : Pathfinder Team : 9x Pathfinders et 1 Pathfinder Shas’ui (10x5) avec 10 Markerlights (10x3), 10 Pulse Carbines (0), 10 Photon Grenades (0), 1 Pulse Pistol (0) [80]
Attaque Rapide 2 : Kroot Hounds : 8x Hounds (8x4) [32]
Attaque Rapide 3 : Vespid Stingwings : 8x Vespid Stingwings et 1 Strain Leader (9x15) avec 9 Neutron Blasters (0) [135]
HEAVY SUPPORT –
HEAVY SUPPORT 1 : XV88 Broadside Battlesuit : 2 Broadsides (2x80), avec 2 Heavy Rail Rifles (2x63), 4 Plasma Rifles (4x11), 2 Velocity Trackers (2x2), 2 Shield Drones (2x8) [350]
TOTAL - 2000
One of each non-troop grossly favors armies with a codex. It also flat out favors certain armies. Spamming gun drones is pretty important for Tau right now. Doing so, with Commanders, can compete with pretty much anyone.
The unit is 12 strong, so it is large enough to enciircle an overly aggressive Flyer, and kill everyone inside if your other units can shoot it down.
Actually you can't make a proper coffin with 25mm based miniatures. If your encirclement is one line wide, your opponent can disembark either in front or behind your unit.
They have absolutely no reason not to advance in most rounds making them as fast as a Wave Serpent on the average.
They do 5.33 wounds in a single round for 48 points that are -1 AP.
The unit is 12 strong, so it is large enough to enciircle an overly aggressive Flyer, and kill everyone inside if your other units can shoot it down.
There isn't a meaner little road block to hold enemies in place with the Insane Bravery Strategem and there's enough bodies to survive almost any counter for a round.
The Kroot Hounds can form the absolutely critical halo around your firebase to ensure deep Strikers are left out in the open and not within "juice" range of things like Fusion Blasters if they want to get close.
The Kroot Hounds are excellent for Line Breaking units if you keep them out of the fight for a bit. their speed manes you can wait until the bottom of the third turn to send them streaking to the other side and in the meantime they can just lurk if allowed.
They often panic an enemy into shooting them rather than keping their eye on the ball downfield. As long as you dont make them the ONLY target, this is useful in ablating enemy fire.
Have I missed any of the excellent things you can say about them?
The models look cool!
Only problem is they are friggin' expensive in money terms. Otherwise I'd buy a ton of them right now. I know I bring this up a lot, but it still stings.
My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 12 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
Mr_Rose wrote: Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
The unit is 12 strong, so it is large enough to enciircle an overly aggressive Flyer, and kill everyone inside if your other units can shoot it down.
Actually you can't make a proper coffin with 25mm based miniatures. If your encirclement is one line wide, your opponent can disembark either in front or behind your unit.
Nah. You just put the hounds 1.1 inch away from the plane. When they try to disembark, that puts 3 inches within one inch of you. They die because they cannot BE within 1 inch of you. Yay.
Only problem is they are friggin' expensive in money terms. Otherwise I'd buy a ton of them right now. I know I bring this up a lot, but it still stings.
I own so many of them. so many. I think I can aaaaaaaalmost field 4 full units or its darn close to that. A guy had bought a bunch a long time ago and was getting out of Tau, having never really used the hounds like I do. So he gave them to me for a few Eldar models to kick start his changeover and I profit'd immensely. =)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/23 17:51:23
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
Dont take Target lock with your Stealth suits, take ATS.
Dont put Burst Cannons on your Commanders, they are better of with Missile Pods, CIBs or Fusions.
Take the Drones off the Fire Warriors and make larger drone units. They can be sniped for easy killpoints otherwise.
I'm planning on attending a tournament in February that requires participants to use a patrol detachment only at 1k no allies and no FW. My primary armies are IG, Tau and Necrons and since IG has made a bit of a come back I decided to dust off my tanks and start playing them since I didn't touch IG at all during 7E.
I would really like to try fielding my Tau again though my biggest problem is that the new net lists out there require me to field like 4 commanders or a million gun drones. Been down that road before when I tried maxing out my Riptide wing and I don't think my wallet can handle that again :(
That's plenty for a solid 1k list. I'd fill it with the 2 commanders, Fireblade/Ethereal firebase (FW and railgun pathfinders), Kroot and Kroot Hounds, Stealths with DC and drones.
They haven't posted anything mission related yet. I also know they won't be using the ITC faq so I can safely assume no ITC missions. Probably either book or in-house missions.
How much kill points matter is a big deal. I think they are stupid, without balances. But plenty of places still use them, and they obviously affect your list.
I'm new to Tau and boy did they nerf that Hammerhead.
It does an average of 1.5 wounds per turn to a Land raider, that's like more than 110 points per damage done.
It's not much better against a rhino.
We need the codex asap to fix the obvious unbalanced entries.
Xyphal wrote: I'm new to Tau and boy did they nerf that Hammerhead.
It does an average of 1.5 wounds per turn to a Land raider, that's like more than 110 points per damage done.
It's not much better against a rhino.
We need the codex asap to fix the obvious unbalanced entries.
Possibly March a new codex, so you don't need to suffer needlessly very much longer.. maybe
~15000 Astra Militarum: 
~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: 
~1900 | Imperial Knights: 
~2000 | Sisters of Battle: 
~3500 | Leagues of Votann: 
~1200 | Tyranids: 
~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: 
