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If you want specific tactics advice, ask it then. You’ll get it. But if you want some self-validation of your army choice, then don’t be surprised if you get the same feedback as if you suggested taking terminators in a space marine thread. People are going to tell it how it is, cause this is a tactics thread.

 techsoldaten wrote:

There's a line between educating people on the downsides of the Codex and indoctrinating people in a mantra of pure hopelessness.

There is a line, I agree...but also Dante should probably be inscribed at the top of this Thread:

"Abandon hope, all ye who enter here."

Back to discussion however, we obviously know that interceptors are going to be among our best units after the DS change. How many are people thinking? I ran 3 units of 10, but that just made them a bigger threat so they died faster. Maybe you could run 3x10 then combat squad them? Interceptors are also nice for LOS blocked charges since they ignore terrain. Outside of those we probably still want strikes for CP. I still don't see a lot of uses for purgations, or purifiers. Stormravens I feel need to be taken in 3's to be of any great use as 1 stormraven just gets immediately obliterated.

Dreadnoughts, I have mixed experiences with these. They seem to e among our best anti-tank, especially if you hide them and use astral aim. But typically when I try it I get little to no use out of them. Anyone else had better luck?

Any other units you guys think we can field to still be viable? I know we can also still take allies, with the obvious answer here being guard, and you of course see a lot of Sisters allied with GK. I'm a big fan of Inquisition too because terrify is an amazing power for stopping a deadly overwatch. I typically take plasma on the inquisitors too. Any other allies that we may find useful?

 Elric Greywolf wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:

There's a line between educating people on the downsides of the Codex and indoctrinating people in a mantra of pure hopelessness.

There is a line, I agree...but also Dante should probably be inscribed at the top of this Thread:

"Abandon hope, all ye who enter here."

“THROUGH me you pass into the city of woe:
Through me you pass into eternal pain:
Through me among the people lost for aye.
Justice the founder of my fabric moved:
To rear me was the task of Power divine,
Supremest Wisdom, and primeval Love.
Before me things create were none, save things
Eternal, and eternal I endure.
All hope abandon, ye who enter here.”

bananathug wrote:
Sorry if this question has been asked already but can I deepstrike a GMNDK into my own deployment zone and then GOI him up the field with my strike squads shunt or does this fall under the "no warptime from deepstrike" clause?

The FAQ permits it.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
I welcome you to actually contribute techsoldaten.

 greyknight12 wrote:
If you want specific tactics advice, ask it then. You’ll get it. But if you want some self-validation of your army choice, then don’t be surprised if you get the same feedback as if you suggested taking terminators in a space marine thread. People are going to tell it how it is, cause this is a tactics thread.

/thread
This IS the Tactica Subforum I expect top notch advice and I try to give it back as well.

 Quickjager wrote:

bananathug wrote:
Sorry if this question has been asked already but can I deepstrike a GMNDK into my own deployment zone and then GOI him up the field with my strike squads shunt or does this fall under the "no warptime from deepstrike" clause?

The FAQ permits it.

Thanks!!! When I read it I have a problem with the "any unit that arrives on the battlefield during a players first turn must be deployed wholly within the controlling player's deployment zone." Aside from arguing that "re-deployments don't count as deployments" could anyone point me to a quote or something so when I end up in an argument with a TO I have some GW sanctioned ammo? Is there a YMDC thread or something I can read through?

bananathug wrote:

 Quickjager wrote:

bananathug wrote:
Sorry if this question has been asked already but can I deepstrike a GMNDK into my own deployment zone and then GOI him up the field with my strike squads shunt or does this fall under the "no warptime from deepstrike" clause?

The FAQ permits it.

Thanks!!! When I read it I have a problem with the "any unit that arrives on the battlefield during a players first turn must be deployed wholly within the controlling player's deployment zone." Aside from arguing that "re-deployments don't count as deployments" could anyone point me to a quote or something so when I end up in an argument with a TO I have some GW sanctioned ammo? Is there a YMDC thread or something I can read through?

As far as everyone can agree, since Da Jump allows such an interaction, Gate of Infinity also allows it.

 Quickjager wrote:

bananathug wrote:

 Quickjager wrote:

bananathug wrote:
Sorry if this question has been asked already but can I deepstrike a GMNDK into my own deployment zone and then GOI him up the field with my strike squads shunt or does this fall under the "no warptime from deepstrike" clause?

The FAQ permits it.

Thanks!!! When I read it I have a problem with the "any unit that arrives on the battlefield during a players first turn must be deployed wholly within the controlling player's deployment zone." Aside from arguing that "re-deployments don't count as deployments" could anyone point me to a quote or something so when I end up in an argument with a TO I have some GW sanctioned ammo? Is there a YMDC thread or something I can read through?

As far as everyone can agree, since Da Jump allows such an interaction, Gate of Infinity also allows it.

I think his question is a little more nuanced. The info graphic says if you have a unit on the board, it can Da Jump or GoI out of deployment.

If I read him right, his question is what if he Deep Strikes in on T1 in his deployment zone but then GoI's to try and escape it. That is a scenario I'm less sure about.

 Zarroc1733 wrote:
Back to discussion however, we obviously know that interceptors are going to be among our best units after the DS change. How many are people thinking? I ran 3 units of 10, but that just made them a bigger threat so they died faster. Maybe you could run 3x10 then combat squad them? Interceptors are also nice for LOS blocked charges since they ignore terrain. Outside of those we probably still want strikes for CP. I still don't see a lot of uses for purgations, or purifiers. Stormravens I feel need to be taken in 3's to be of any great use as 1 stormraven just gets immediately obliterated.

Dreadnoughts, I have mixed experiences with these. They seem to e among our best anti-tank, especially if you hide them and use astral aim. But typically when I try it I get little to no use out of them. Anyone else had better luck?

Any other units you guys think we can field to still be viable? I know we can also still take allies, with the obvious answer here being guard, and you of course see a lot of Sisters allied with GK. I'm a big fan of Inquisition too because terrify is an amazing power for stopping a deadly overwatch. I typically take plasma on the inquisitors too. Any other allies that we may find useful?

I've said this before and I still think it holds true. Paladins are extremely durable. They always survive the entire game for me. I don't like the fact that they we have to take interceptors to get around the DS rule but it is what it is.

An apothecary with Destroyer and Draigo make a fantastic little deathstar type unit. GMDK obviously are still strong

I'm still thinking strikes in a stormraven. The stormraven flanked with at least a stormhawk. I think starting a GMDK on the board with a 5 man strike squad with gate.

I wish the transport rules didnt punish you so heavily for putting multiwound models inside. I really think doomglaives are a legit threat to many things but not sure I want it in a stormraven on the chance I roll a 1.

Luckily GK still have the rule of cool. I have 15 PAGK I will be assembling soon and magentizing the back packs so I can give both strikes and interceptors a try.

To be honest I was already taking mostly interceptors (30) vs strikes (25) in my "silver tide" list anyway. That 12' move+shunt is now more than ever worth an extra 4pts per model. And yeah, combat squading them is going to be the way to go I think, unless you really have something you want psybolts for. But if you have such a target, a stormraven with psybolts has more shots..

Audustm I originally thought about that and typed out a response but honestly deleted it because I'm just so sick of playing 40k rule charades. Since the base FAQ rule says the unit arriving from reserve must be DEPLOYED in the deployment area and GoI makes no mention of such interaction with reserve, and as far as I am aware there is no rule mentioned period in 8th where you back into reserves, I figured said movement in GoI was not a deployment or redeployment action so it wouldn't be affected.

But hey what do I know. GW forgot another interaction.

 Quickjager wrote:
Audustm I originally thought about that and typed out a response but honestly deleted it because I'm just so sick of playing 40k rule charades. Since the base FAQ rule says the unit arriving from reserve must be DEPLOYED in the deployment area and GoI makes no mention of such interaction with reserve, and as far as I am aware there is no rule mentioned period in 8th where you back into reserves, I figured said movement in GoI was not a deployment or redeployment action so it wouldn't be affected.

But hey what do I know. GW forgot another interaction.

Redeployment isn't the issue here. The issue is they said that things that move your units cannot move them on the turn they deep strike. For example the chaos psychic power warptime allows a unit to move its movement in the psychic phase.They ruled that you cannot warptime a unit the turn it comes in from deep strike. You cannot move for any reason other than a charge, so the question becomes does GOI count as moving because if it does we cannot deep strike then gate. Sadly I think we cannot.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheMostWize wrote:

 Zarroc1733 wrote:
Back to discussion however, we obviously know that interceptors are going to be among our best units after the DS change. How many are people thinking? I ran 3 units of 10, but that just made them a bigger threat so they died faster. Maybe you could run 3x10 then combat squad them? Interceptors are also nice for LOS blocked charges since they ignore terrain. Outside of those we probably still want strikes for CP. I still don't see a lot of uses for purgations, or purifiers. Stormravens I feel need to be taken in 3's to be of any great use as 1 stormraven just gets immediately obliterated.

Dreadnoughts, I have mixed experiences with these. They seem to e among our best anti-tank, especially if you hide them and use astral aim. But typically when I try it I get little to no use out of them. Anyone else had better luck?

Any other units you guys think we can field to still be viable? I know we can also still take allies, with the obvious answer here being guard, and you of course see a lot of Sisters allied with GK. I'm a big fan of Inquisition too because terrify is an amazing power for stopping a deadly overwatch. I typically take plasma on the inquisitors too. Any other allies that we may find useful?

I've said this before and I still think it holds true. Paladins are extremely durable. They always survive the entire game for me. I don't like the fact that they we have to take interceptors to get around the DS rule but it is what it is.

An apothecary with Destroyer and Draigo make a fantastic little deathstar type unit. GMDK obviously are still strong

I'm still thinking strikes in a stormraven. The stormraven flanked with at least a stormhawk. I think starting a GMDK on the board with a 5 man strike squad with gate.

I wish the transport rules didnt punish you so heavily for putting multiwound models inside. I really think doomglaives are a legit threat to many things but not sure I want it in a stormraven on the chance I roll a 1.

Luckily GK still have the rule of cool. I have 15 PAGK I will be assembling soon and magentizing the back packs so I can give both strikes and interceptors a try.

I find paladins far too expensive for what they do. I have fielded them often with an apothecary and ancient and never got much mileage out of them. They may be quite survivable, and can put out respectable damage in melee, but 5 paladins with falchions puts out twice the melee attacks as a ss with falchions, the same stormbolter shots, (or you can take 2 psilencers compared to the ss 1 psilencer) and has 3 times the wounds. The issue is though 5 paladins cost 275 points, whereas 5 ss are 105 or interceptors are 125. I can run 10 ss or interceptors for cheaper, getting 21 attacks (6 more than the paladins) 20-40 bolter shots (double the paladins), and 11 wounds (4 less than the paladins). Are 4 wounds, +1 save, and a 5+ invuln, worth an extra 25-65 extra points when losing 6 attacks, and 10-20 stormbolter shots? In my experience it hasn't been. Of course paladins don't lose as much combat effectiveness as ss and interceptors per wound taken, and they'll make around 16% more saves before invulns are factored in, but they're much more susceptible to multi damage attacks. All in all they need a slight points decrease for me to heavily consider them over just another unit of PAGK.

I've had bad experiences with a lone stormraven. It typically drops fast, but that may just be my experience and not something you'll have often.

 Zarroc1733 wrote:

I find paladins far too expensive for what they do. I have fielded them often with an apothecary and ancient and never got much mileage out of them. They may be quite survivable, and can put out respectable damage in melee, but 5 paladins with falchions puts out twice the melee attacks as a ss with falchions, the same stormbolter shots, (or you can take 2 psilencers compared to the ss 1 psilencer) and has 3 times the wounds. The issue is though 5 paladins cost 275 points, whereas 5 ss are 105 or interceptors are 125. I can run 10 ss or interceptors for cheaper, getting 21 attacks (6 more than the paladins) 20-40 bolter shots (double the paladins), and 11 wounds (4 less than the paladins). Are 4 wounds, +1 save, and a 5+ invuln, worth an extra 25-65 extra points when losing 6 attacks, and 10-20 stormbolter shots? In my experience it hasn't been. Of course paladins don't lose as much combat effectiveness as ss and interceptors per wound taken, and they'll make around 16% more saves before invulns are factored in, but they're much more susceptible to multi damage attacks. All in all they need a slight points decrease for me to heavily consider them over just another unit of PAGK.

I've had bad experiences with a lone stormraven. It typically drops fast, but that may just be my experience and not something you'll have often.

I share this sentiment about Paladins, have tried to bring them several time and never did much for me and was already thinking of removing of the list before the faq, I would rather have more stormbolter fire. That said my meta is like 65% Tau players for some reason so maybe that's why I never got much use of them.

Also interested to hear what other people think about how Stormraven is important on GK lists. I have been on the fence for a while about getting one but since it's a very pricey $ model and I find it quite ugly, but I keep hearing it's a essential unit for GK lists

 Quickjager wrote:
Audustm I originally thought about that and typed out a response but honestly deleted it because I'm just so sick of playing 40k rule charades. Since the base FAQ rule says the unit arriving from reserve must be DEPLOYED in the deployment area and GoI makes no mention of such interaction with reserve, and as far as I am aware there is no rule mentioned period in 8th where you back into reserves, I figured said movement in GoI was not a deployment or redeployment action so it wouldn't be affected.

But hey what do I know. GW forgot another interaction.

Fair points all. I know some fellows in YMDC that might enjoy this though!

 Zarroc1733 wrote:

 Quickjager wrote:
Audustm I originally thought about that and typed out a response but honestly deleted it because I'm just so sick of playing 40k rule charades. Since the base FAQ rule says the unit arriving from reserve must be DEPLOYED in the deployment area and GoI makes no mention of such interaction with reserve, and as far as I am aware there is no rule mentioned period in 8th where you back into reserves, I figured said movement in GoI was not a deployment or redeployment action so it wouldn't be affected.

But hey what do I know. GW forgot another interaction.

Redeployment isn't the issue here. The issue is they said that things that move your units cannot move them on the turn they deep strike. For example the chaos psychic power warptime allows a unit to move its movement in the psychic phase.They ruled that you cannot warptime a unit the turn it comes in from deep strike. You cannot move for any reason other than a charge, so the question becomes does GOI count as moving because if it does we cannot deep strike then gate. Sadly I think we cannot.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheMostWize wrote:

 Zarroc1733 wrote:
Back to discussion however, we obviously know that interceptors are going to be among our best units after the DS change. How many are people thinking? I ran 3 units of 10, but that just made them a bigger threat so they died faster. Maybe you could run 3x10 then combat squad them? Interceptors are also nice for LOS blocked charges since they ignore terrain. Outside of those we probably still want strikes for CP. I still don't see a lot of uses for purgations, or purifiers. Stormravens I feel need to be taken in 3's to be of any great use as 1 stormraven just gets immediately obliterated.

Dreadnoughts, I have mixed experiences with these. They seem to e among our best anti-tank, especially if you hide them and use astral aim. But typically when I try it I get little to no use out of them. Anyone else had better luck?

Any other units you guys think we can field to still be viable? I know we can also still take allies, with the obvious answer here being guard, and you of course see a lot of Sisters allied with GK. I'm a big fan of Inquisition too because terrify is an amazing power for stopping a deadly overwatch. I typically take plasma on the inquisitors too. Any other allies that we may find useful?

I've said this before and I still think it holds true. Paladins are extremely durable. They always survive the entire game for me. I don't like the fact that they we have to take interceptors to get around the DS rule but it is what it is.

An apothecary with Destroyer and Draigo make a fantastic little deathstar type unit. GMDK obviously are still strong

I'm still thinking strikes in a stormraven. The stormraven flanked with at least a stormhawk. I think starting a GMDK on the board with a 5 man strike squad with gate.

I wish the transport rules didnt punish you so heavily for putting multiwound models inside. I really think doomglaives are a legit threat to many things but not sure I want it in a stormraven on the chance I roll a 1.

Luckily GK still have the rule of cool. I have 15 PAGK I will be assembling soon and magentizing the back packs so I can give both strikes and interceptors a try.

I find paladins far too expensive for what they do. I have fielded them often with an apothecary and ancient and never got much mileage out of them. They may be quite survivable, and can put out respectable damage in melee, but 5 paladins with falchions puts out twice the melee attacks as a ss with falchions, the same stormbolter shots, (or you can take 2 psilencers compared to the ss 1 psilencer) and has 3 times the wounds. The issue is though 5 paladins cost 275 points, whereas 5 ss are 105 or interceptors are 125. I can run 10 ss or interceptors for cheaper, getting 21 attacks (6 more than the paladins) 20-40 bolter shots (double the paladins), and 11 wounds (4 less than the paladins). Are 4 wounds, +1 save, and a 5+ invuln, worth an extra 25-65 extra points when losing 6 attacks, and 10-20 stormbolter shots? In my experience it hasn't been. Of course paladins don't lose as much combat effectiveness as ss and interceptors per wound taken, and they'll make around 16% more saves before invulns are factored in, but they're much more susceptible to multi damage attacks. All in all they need a slight points decrease for me to heavily consider them over just another unit of PAGK.

I've had bad experiences with a lone stormraven. It typically drops fast, but that may just be my experience and not something you'll have often.

Regarding the Stormraven, any tournament I've ever been to most lists can drop a flyer per turn. So that Stormraven will go down fast most of the time if they want it to.

Audustum wrote:


Regarding the Stormraven, any tournament I've ever been to most lists can drop a flyer per turn. So that Stormraven will go down fast most of the time if they want it to.

When I take one, I always take 2.

That many points into 2 models plus all the units you cram on board will usually guarantee you the first turn/+1 to dice-off. In a perfect world they will lunge forward T1 and eliminate whatever nasty shooty business that threatens them (not much in the codex that can do that), then dump their cargo into the fray and whizz around unmolested for the rest of the game.

Its not a perfect world of course and there are several pitfalls, particularly when you do lose one before your first turn. But hey what else are we gonna do right?

Spartacus wrote:
When I take one, I always take 2.

"I don't always take one, but when I do I take two."

Heh. And I actually follow this adage on nearly every single thing I take. Redundancy is a trait in all my lists. But I frequently stop at two, as well, and rarely take three.

Honestly, after digesting a little bit. Our interceptors and a single unit with gate of infinity will be nice. There will be less dedicated bubble wrap now as the meta shifts, in particular before first turn scout/deploy bubble wrap. That gets us closer to squishy backlines easier with a single gate unit and xx interceptors.

Issue then still is the fact that we still are low on cp with that 1cp

I am curious why you think there will be less bubblewrap. They're still going to need basic troops to get bonuses.

Yeah, there will still be that... but i am thinking less units like scout sentinels whose sole purpose in many lists is pushing out the first turn deep strike bubble before you get a chance to move.. In this case, Scout sentinels will take an unforseen nerf as the meta shifts. Therefore less of these will be seen.

Scout sentinels are just an example. Those are what I was using for my guard list and now they will start their dust collection for a while now that I have 1-2 turns to push out that deep strike bubble.

Ratlings will see something similar. At least they can still put mortal wounds on characters.

Now I just need to slam GWs emails full of requests to give brotherhood champions the option to take a personal teleporter so he can keep up with interceptors.

I thought people took scout sentinels so they could get a brigade. I’m also not convinced bubble wrap will diminish, board control is still important for an objective-based game and it’s not like guard (in particular) was losing out by taking all those infantry squads.

In the first games I did with this FAQ, my opponents were bubble wrapping as usual, as long as they have troops and know they are playing against GK, I don't see why this would prevent them from trying to bubble wrapping a bit even if their list is not built for it.

 Smotejob wrote:
Honestly, after digesting a little bit. Our interceptors and a single unit with gate of infinity will be nice.

I agree. I'll be testing out this silly 4CP list over the weekend. Playing the new FAQ and beta rules... ugh.
C&C Appreciated. Spoilers contain explanations.

Outrider Detachment (2000 points)
GMNDK (290) -- Warlord, Teleporter, G.Psilencer, H.Psycannon, Greathammer


Venerable Dreadnought (193) -- Twin Autocannon, Twin Lascannon


Interceptor Squad (267) -- 10x Marines, 2x Psilencer, 1x Daemon Hammer
Interceptor Squad (267) -- 10x Marines, 2x Psilencer, 1x Daemon Hammer
Interceptor Squad (267) -- 10x Marines, 2x Psilencer, 1x Daemon Hammer


Stormraven Gunship (358) -- Twin Lascannon, Twin Multi-Melta, 2x Hurricane Bolters
Stormraven Gunship (358) -- Twin Lascannon, Twin Multi-Melta, 2x Hurricane Bolters

I'm toying with an idea and was wondering if the Fury of Deimos is a stormbolter and therefore allowed to use Psybolt Ammo. The fluff clearly says that it is a stormbolter but it doesn't say so in the crunch.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also has anyone considered just making 6 man strike squads and interceptors? It really raises the PL of the army and would allow us to drop more models from deepstrike without too much more in point costs. Strike squads go from 7 PL to 14PL with that extra model.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
I'm toying with an idea and was wondering if the Fury of Deimos is a stormbolter and therefore allowed to use Psybolt Ammo. The fluff clearly says that it is a stormbolter but it doesn't say so in the crunch.

That strategem seems pretty clear about what guns are affected.
And even if Fury of Deimos were included, that seems like a pretty wasteful expenditure of 2CP. That strategem is probably best reserved for when you've got a 10-man squad rapid-firing SB's.

Nairul wrote:

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
I'm toying with an idea and was wondering if the Fury of Deimos is a stormbolter and therefore allowed to use Psybolt Ammo. The fluff clearly says that it is a stormbolter but it doesn't say so in the crunch.

That strategem seems pretty clear about what guns are affected.
And even if Fury of Deimos were included, that seems like a pretty wasteful expenditure of 2CP. That strategem is probably best reserved for when you've got a 10-man squad rapid-firing SB's.

It doesn't matter if it's wasteful. You can do Bolter Drill on Pedro Kantor because. It's an option at least.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
I'm toying with an idea and was wondering if the Fury of Deimos is a stormbolter and therefore allowed to use Psybolt Ammo. The fluff clearly says that it is a stormbolter but it doesn't say so in the crunch.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also has anyone considered just making 6 man strike squads and interceptors? It really raises the PL of the army and would allow us to drop more models from deepstrike without too much more in point costs. Strike squads go from 7 PL to 14PL with that extra model.

You know I didn't think of that, I too used to ignoring PL.

I think we'll be seeing units taking one additional model to drastically bump PL become fairly common across the board. It's a great idea

I assume Grey Knights lose the Heed the Prognosticar’s buff if they use Gate of Infinity because of the BRB FAQ. Is that how everyone here sees it?