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caladancid wrote:
Has there been any explanation for why Infantry squads are limited to 10 now? I really don’t understand it, was hoping a rules person had discussed it somewhere.

Haven't infantry squads always been limited to 10 guys? With the optional HWT counting as 2? I know there was a stratagem to combine 2 squads into 1 larger squad but that was the only way outside of Conscripts to get large blobs.

There was an edition where you could take bigger squads I think? That was a long time ago.

Currently building Field Ordnance Batteries, waiting for the Rogal Dorn tank to come out.

I did not know the Rogue Trader edition, but from second edition forward, the troop infantry squad has always been 10 dudes (with the exception of one incomplete infantry squad you could field with 4th edition codex). There has been some workaround about this cap, with 5th and 7th edition codexes, when you could regroup squads inside a platoon to form a combined squad. But it was far from mandatory, and the structure was relatively rigid even then. You could form 20, 30 , 40 or 50 dudes combined squads during deployment, but nothing in between.

A more free structure about guard infantry came with conscripts, which had no options except for their numbers. Conscripts are like a sidenote on the history of imperial guard troops, and now they are completely gone. The move away from horde lists has condemned them anyway.

But will we continue to see brigade Astra Militarum army lists with this 9th edition codex ? I don't know, the 65 points squad is not the cheap value of 40 points we had through 8th edition. We were pretty much the sole codex fielding brigades. I'm courious to see the first competitive V9 Astra Militarum lists.

 Ravajaxe wrote:
But will we continue to see brigade Astra Militarum army lists with this 9th edition codex ? I don't know, the 65 points squad is not the cheap value of 40 points we had through 8th edition. We were pretty much the sole codex fielding brigades. I'm courious to see the first competitive V9 Astra Militarum lists.

I wouldn't be surprised if we still see them. Not for the extra troops slots, but because taking more basic troops (which are still decent) opens up a bunch more non-troops slots. With the loss of most vehicle squadrons getting those extra slots has a lot more value and ~200 points in troops is a reasonable price for getting them.

 Ravajaxe wrote:
I did not know the Rogue Trader edition

They were 10 dudes in RT too. They were also called 'Tactical Squad' (really), and they were 200(!) points (SM Tacticals were 250 for 10) with crazy weapon options like conversion beamers and D-cannons. They could also take horses. Crazy fun old times.

 Ravajaxe wrote:
I did not know the Rogue Trader edition, but from second edition forward, the troop infantry squad has always been 10 dudes (with the exception of one incomplete infantry squad you could field with 4th edition codex). There has been some workaround about this cap, with 5th and 7th edition codexes, when you could regroup squads inside a platoon to form a combined squad. But it was far from mandatory, and the structure was relatively rigid even then. You could form 20, 30 , 40 or 50 dudes combined squads during deployment, but nothing in between.

A more free structure about guard infantry came with conscripts, which had no options except for their numbers. Conscripts are like a sidenote on the history of imperial guard troops, and now they are completely gone. The move away from horde lists has condemned them anyway.

But will we continue to see brigade Astra Militarum army lists with this 9th edition codex ? I don't know, the 65 points squad is not the cheap value of 40 points we had through 8th edition. We were pretty much the sole codex fielding brigades. I'm courious to see the first competitive V9 Astra Militarum lists.

Yes I wasn't really clear- the platoon management abilities were what I meant, not conscripts.

Deleted

Garrac wrote:
Is someone trying to find a use for the scions? Kinda seem really bad now that karskins are a thing. I was considering maybe take a basic unit, but for that cost even the ratlings seem more appealing

I think people forget that these guys have the core rule. This means Leontus can make them re-roll wound rolls just like the kasrkins except they get exploding sixes to hit! Keep the Relic nearby use the first rank second rank fire order you get exploding sixes using Leontus re-rolls so technically you should get a decent number of extra hits which means more opportunity for extra mortal wounds. Those warlord traits that their command squads get are decent extra ap or ignore cover we are talking ap 4 shots with orders and with re-rolls that is nothing to laugh at.

I believe kasrkins are better due to cadian keyword but people just completely overlooked scions.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Welcome to the Imperial Guard 9th edition tactics thread. Get up to speed with the 9th Ed FAQs for greater good (heresy), imperial armor, and the IG Codex.

Step 1 - Set up Imperial Guard.

Step 2 - Lose the Game.

= )

On a more serious note it seems like Guard are regularly at the bottom of the top tier lists whereas Harlequins, Nids and Sisters are regularly in first place. I understand with Sisters some OPness is acceptable as GW is trying to use them to get more women into a largely male dominated game so I can see the rationale. Though I should note people suffering Dwarfism are even less represented then women and they nerfed Votann before the bodies were even cold (j/k - btw Tyrion is the man!)

I just don't see nerfing guards as a good use of time and resources vs the other factions achieving 60-70 percent win rates.

In any case it seems mass artillery is out, even though GW's own commercial for the Guard release said " Artillery wins wars." ( Do they play test any of these products at all?)

Mass armor is in which is kind of cool. Tank charges are fun.

Cadians seem to be clearly the best.

Would be nice to see how a Spearhead Detachment of 9 tanks works out. Might be hard to stop unless the enemy Tailors their army specifically for Anti-Vees.

 CKO wrote:

Garrac wrote:
Is someone trying to find a use for the scions? Kinda seem really bad now that karskins are a thing. I was considering maybe take a basic unit, but for that cost even the ratlings seem more appealing

I think people forget that these guys have the core rule. This means Leontus can make them re-roll wound rolls just like the kasrkins except they get exploding sixes to hit! Keep the Relic nearby use the first rank second rank fire order you get exploding sixes using Leontus re-rolls so technically you should get a decent number of extra hits which means more opportunity for extra mortal wounds. Those warlord traits that their command squads get are decent extra ap or ignore cover we are talking ap 4 shots with orders and with re-rolls that is nothing to laugh at.

Kasrkin do this better. Born Soldiers means every 6 (5+ with the stratagem) to hit is a mortal wound. It's effective enough that you want to split your fire to get the maximum 6 wounds per turn into each of two different units.


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Asenion wrote:
On a more serious note it seems like Guard are regularly at the bottom of the top tier lists whereas Harlequins, Nids and Sisters are regularly in first place.

With the old codex. The new codex is way more powerful and guard are likely to be up at the top again once it becomes legal for tournaments.

Would be nice to see how a Spearhead Detachment of 9 tanks works out. Might be hard to stop unless the enemy Tailors their army specifically for Anti-Vees.

LRBT-heavy lists will be very effective, but why waste half your CP on a spearhead detachment when you can fit 12 of them in a battalion detachment before running out of slots?

Asenion wrote:

In any case it seems mass artillery is out

Well, massed artillery was a coping mechanism for a dated codex. I didn't expect it to continue to be "the build" under the new codex. I actually think people are overreacting when they say it's terrible now. It's just that other things are now less terrible than before, so artillery seems less attractive relative to infantry and armor.

My box arrived today...but I'm not at home. Starting the 30 hour journey home in just under 11 hours. My son will have the troops primed for me when I get there.

Looking at the Goonhammer review, I'm pretty pleased. Seems like armor, infantry, or a mix are all viable options, with splashes of artillery and support from sentinels being reasonable choices.

I'm going to have to look at whether a superheavy is now a viable option. With a 5++ and ignores mortals on 5++, it comes down to points cost and context. Not buying that orders are necessary. But I'm thinking a superheavy, a Dorn with psycher, and a (HQ) Gatekeeper is a beefy start. Maybe Creed with 2 Nebelwerfer, 2 bombasts, and 2 squads of autocannons (at S8!) might be really, really good. Fill in the rest with Cadian troops, including a squad or two of Kasrkin. But that's based on reading Goonhammer, I'll probably change my mind when I read the actual codex.

Gue'vesa Emissary wrote:

 CKO wrote:

Garrac wrote:
Is someone trying to find a use for the scions? Kinda seem really bad now that karskins are a thing. I was considering maybe take a basic unit, but for that cost even the ratlings seem more appealing

I think people forget that these guys have the core rule. This means Leontus can make them re-roll wound rolls just like the kasrkins except they get exploding sixes to hit! Keep the Relic nearby use the first rank second rank fire order you get exploding sixes using Leontus re-rolls so technically you should get a decent number of extra hits which means more opportunity for extra mortal wounds. Those warlord traits that their command squads get are decent extra ap or ignore cover we are talking ap 4 shots with orders and with re-rolls that is nothing to laugh at.

Kasrkin do this better. Born Soldiers means every 6 (5+ with the stratagem) to hit is a mortal wound. It's effective enough that you want to split your fire to get the maximum 6 wounds per turn into each of two different units.


5attalion detachment before running out of slots?

What if you are not playing born soldiers? I do not think born soldiers are a must-take but then again I am unorthodox. The combo is effective but you are using 2 command points.

I think born soldiers is the best all around. I honestly so no reason to take anything else especially now that we know the non-LOS exception is not coming back. The only other doctrine worth anything is going for armored superiority with whatever else you prefer (probably mechanized infantry)

 CKO wrote:

What if you are not playing born soldiers? I do not think born soldiers are a must-take but then again I am unorthodox. The combo is effective but you are using 2 command points.

Then the mortal wound bomb is much less effective and probably not worth it.

Gue'vesa Emissary wrote:

 CKO wrote:

What if you are not playing born soldiers? I do not think born soldiers are a must-take but then again I am unorthodox. The combo is effective but you are using 2 command points.

Then the mortal wound bomb is much less effective and probably not worth it.

I was thinking about all the ways to use the unit and not just the mortal wound bomb because they cannot do it properly without the 5+ stratagem anyways. How often will the kasrkin unit be in a position to unleash this mortal wound bomb and it be a devastating blow to 2 units? I believe in the ability to kill one unit if all shots are dedicated to it, but 12 and 10 shots at separate units isn't enough even with the mortal wounds.(Although the amount of damage the combo does is really good for 100 points unit and 2 command points)

I am not dissing the kasrkin I like them and they are easily top 3 unit in our codex but the illusion that they are so much better than scions is not true.

On the regiment front, Born Soldiers is the easy all around choice. I dont think its the end all be all, but youre never going to regret taking it I think. But I think we will see specific builds and loadouts where other regiment traits make more sense. Not all the time, but if IG starts taking top tables I suspect we'll see some interesting regiment combos playing toward very specific builds, like the one that makes all tanks scoring or things like ignoring cover within 18".

Yes Born Soldiers is a really good offensive boost, but some of the other regiment traits lend themselves to interesting tactics and abilities you dont see in many codexes. Abilities like disembark aftermovement, pregame move for all your infantry, and armywide ignore cover are very powerful in the right list or meta.

Gonna try the new codex tomorrow, against an unknown opponent (might be sisters, marines, nids or even nurgle daemons), and this is what I've come up with;

-HQ-

*Tank Commander /w 1x Heavy Bolter, Armoured Tracks, R: Gatekeeper, WT: Lead from the Front
*Castellan /w Powersword, Boltpistol + Ogryn Bodyguard /w Bruteshield, Maul
*Cadian Command Squad /w Plasmagun + Astropath

-Troops-

*Infantrysquad /w Plasmagun, Lascannon, Vox, Boltgun
*Infantrysquad /w Plasmagun, Lascannon, Vox, Boltgun
*Shock Troops /w 2x Plasmaguns, Autogun
*Shock Troops /w 2x Plasmaguns, Autogun
*Shock Troops /w 2x Plasmaguns, Autogun
*Shock Troops /w 2x Plasmaguns, Autogun

-Elites-

*10x Kasrkin /w 2x Volley Guns, 2x Plasmaguns, Mechanized Infantry + Chimera /w Multi-laser, Heavy Bolter
*6x Ogryns
*1x Enginseer
*1x Commissar

-Fast Attack-

*5x Rough Riders /w Goadlance
*1x Scout Sentinel /w Lascannon

-Heavy Support-

*Rogal Dorn /w Oppressor Cannon, 2x Heavy Bolters, Armoured Tracks, TA: Knight of Piety
*Leman Russ Vanquisher /w 3x Heavy Bolters, Armoured Tracks
*Leman Russ Executioner /w 3x Heavy Bolters, Armoured Tracks

2000 pts on the nose.

Maybe a bit plasma-heavy but it still seems like the most solid allrounder.

- Armoured and Mechanised
- Armoured and Swift
- Armoured and Sharphooters

Are all excellent combinations too. Armoured is just a fantastic doctrine if you want to dominate primaries and deny your opponents.

Born soldiers will always be useful, I think you can make armies based around other choices but it'll require careful planning to make it useful when they dont get used as much. Especially when you factor in the kasrkin free trait and the tank paid trait you can insert into a born soldiers list to better effect.

 MinscS2 wrote:
Gonna try the new codex tomorrow, against an unknown opponent (might be sisters, marines, nids or even nurgle daemons), and this is what I've come up with;

Give the teleport relic to the Kasrkin. That will let you drop their Chimera, give them the ignore cover doctrine, and free up some points for another unit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jarms48 wrote:
- Armoured and Mechanised
- Armoured and Swift
- Armoured and Sharphooters

Are all excellent combinations too. Armoured is just a fantastic doctrine if you want to dominate primaries and deny your opponents.

Yep. IMO Born Soldiers is getting all the early hype because it's so easy to quantify the dice math advantage but in the long run, especially if the Kasrkin bomb gets nerfed, Armored Superiority lists are going to be stronger. And I wouldn't be surprised if infantry lists also settle on some combination of custom doctrines once people figure out how to use them effectively.

I am starting with armored superiority and swift as the wind and sentinel spam. It will take some time to chew threw 14 t 6 wounds and that unit will only cost around 100 points. If the opponent decides to dedicate serious gunfire at the sentinel then my other threats are left alone. In my limited games, I have played or watched 2 inches is a lot especially combined with the orders which can give you another 2 inches, used with the stratagem you can literally have sentinels anywhere on the table and make sure to position them correctly to give them objective secured.

Hey guys,

I'm thinking of doing an Armoured Company. I don't know if it's a viable army but I very much like the idea!

I have a Shadowsword that's mostly assembled, and on sprue I have a Baneblade, four standard LRBTs and LR with the demolisher options. I also have two DKOK squads that I was thinking of using as regular squads.

Fully assembled I have two LRBTs and a Hellhound.

However I have little experience with the game, I don't know how I should equip the tanks, can anyone kindly give me some advice? Thanks!

Leman Russ spam is definitely viable.
- They basically get Montka if you give them Full Throttle. Allowing them to move 18 inches and still shoot.
- If you have Armoured as your trait they all count as 5 models. Can get Obsec if you order them too.
- Can get max blast against units with 6-10 models with an order.
- If you have nothing better to order them with you can just give them RR1 to Hit.

That's just orders and half of your regiment trait options. I could see 9 Russes and 2 Tank Commanders being fairly viable. That's like 1800 points from the top of my head. Maybe take slightly less tanks for some infantry to hide and do secondaries.

 Destrado wrote:
However I have little experience with the game, I don't know how I should equip the tanks, can anyone kindly give me some advice? Thanks!

The LoWs are bad because of the core rules but LRBT spam looks like a very strong army. Your first LRBT should always be a tank commander with the Gatekeeper relic, it's by far the strongest option. After that vanquishers and executioners are the best options, with the ratio depending on your local meta and the rest of your list. As a general starting point you probably want a 2:1 ratio of executioners to vanquishers. Battle cannons are plasma for cowards who are afraid of dying and their range is mostly redundant on typical 9th edition tables, while demolishers and punishers have some valid targets but don't have an advantage often enough to be worth taking. Eradicators and exterminators are just plain bad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jarms48 wrote:
That's just orders and half of your regiment trait options. I could see 9 Russes and 3 Tank Commanders being fairly viable. That's like 1900 points from the top of my head. Maybe take slightly less tanks for some infantry to hide and do secondaries.

I wouldn't take a list this skewed. Spending half your starting CP on a detachment is way too high a price to pay, just take 6-8 LRBTs and some infantry to fit everything into a battalion and pick up some screening and secondary fodder.

Gue'vesa Emissary wrote:

I wouldn't take a list this skewed. Spending half your starting CP on a detachment is way too high a price to pay, just take 6-8 LRBTs and some infantry to fit everything into a battalion and pick up some screening and secondary fodder.

You don't need to pay any CP. You can quite easily fit 11 Russes into a Battalion, there's no point to even use a Spearhead anymore.

- 2 TC
- 3 Infantry Squads
- 9 LRBT

That's 1920 points. Then you can either use those 80 points for some more infantry, or just start giving everything sponsons. 80 points will get you 16 heavy bolters or heavy flamers.

Jarms48 wrote:
You can quite easily fit 11 Russes into a Battalion, there's no point to even use a Spearhead anymore.

And the person I quoted said 12, not 11.

TC - 165x3 = 495
LRBT - 155x9 = 1395

Total: 1890 points. The cheapest possible 3x troops option is 65x3 = 195 points, which would put you at 2085 points for a minimum battalion. And that's without taking any upgrades at all on the LRBTs. No sponsons, no tank aces.

Although I did get one thing wrong, you'd be spending more than half your starting CP because you'd have to take your third TC in an auxiliary detachment.

Gue'vesa Emissary wrote:

Jarms48 wrote:
You can quite easily fit 11 Russes into a Battalion, there's no point to even use a Spearhead anymore.

And the person I quoted said 12, not 11.

TC - 165x3 = 495
LRBT - 150x9 = 1395

Total: 1890 points. The cheapest possible 3x troops option is 65x3 = 195 points, which would put you at 2085 points for a minimum battalion. And that's without taking any upgrades at all on the LRBTs. No sponsons, no tank aces.

Although I did get one thing wrong, you'd be spending more than half your starting CP because you'd have to take your third TC in an auxiliary detachment.

You can fit three TC in a battalion detachment, and a LRBT is 155.

 p5freak wrote:
You can fit three TC in a battalion detachment, and a LRBT is 155.

But you can't you take a battalion with 3x TCs and 9x LRBTs in a standard 2000 point game, and the original post I was responding to was "I could see 9 Russes and 3 Tank Commanders being fairly viable". The only way to take that combination of units in a standard game is a spearhead + auxiliary support detachment.

As for the point cost, yes, it is 155 points. 150 is a typo but you'll notice that the final point cost is correct for nine of them at 155 points each.

Gue'vesa Emissary wrote:
The only way to take that combination of units in a standard game is a spearhead + auxiliary support detachment.

Yeah, you could do this but who would?

Jarms48 wrote:

Gue'vesa Emissary wrote:
The only way to take that combination of units in a standard game is a spearhead + auxiliary support detachment.

Yeah, you could do this but who would?

You probably, since you're the one who said it would be viable:

Jarms48 wrote:
I could see 9 Russes and 3 Tank Commanders being fairly viable.