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It's already looking a little bit too fractured, currently to have the rules for all teams in the game you need two books (one locked in a box set) and soon that will be three. I know that not everyone needs the rules for all teams but it's not like 40K where each faction gets a whole dedicated book covering multiple units. Some of the appeal of KT is the ease of trying out Kill Teams from other factions you may not usually be interested in. Now however if you want to try out the AM or Orks you either are hampered with the 'Index' team or have to buy a box set to get a book. This will only increase as more factions get their own full Kill Teams.
Hopefully the rules will be included in with the individual releases. This would be ideal as it would me all you needed to start the game was a specific KT box of models and the rule book. As it is now the compendium is semi compulsory unless you bought Octarius.
I think the general idea is pretty clear. Compenium is meant to get you playing with your existing 40K minis. The box sets will be a way for getting you to play the teams supplied in that particular box. Additional teams (again, just like compendium, utilizing existing 40K minis) will be covered in WD issues and probably compiled into some sorts of "Annual" books eventually.
I don't think they want you to have the rules for all factions, I think this time around GW wants you to choose your factions. Problem is, the upcoming factions will not be revealed in advance, so there's no telling when a specific faction will get their KT-specific box.
If you dont want to jump through the new hoops, play Compendium teams and forget the boxes.
I actually like this new distinction, as it seems that the tourney players prefer Compendium factions vs box set factions. The box set factions are much better suited to narrative driven garagehammer anyway.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/09/22 16:38:01
I swear that I read somewhere that the US military made a real one that worked, it was just horribly impractical for actual military use at the cost and size it needed to be to work compared to investing in more conventional weaponry. I could be misremembering though, this was a while back.
I swear that I read somewhere that the US military made a real one that worked, it was just horribly impractical for actual military use at the cost and size it needed to be to work compared to investing in more conventional weaponry. I could be misremembering though, this was a while back.
I swear that I read somewhere that the US military made a real one that worked, it was just horribly impractical for actual military use at the cost and size it needed to be to work compared to investing in more conventional weaponry. I could be misremembering though, this was a while back.
Thousand Sons Kill team rules in the next issue of White Dwarf.
Kill Team – Operatives of Change
Yep, you guessed it – the Thousand Sons are bringing their own warp-wielding brand of warfare to Kill Team with a full rules set that enables them to get stuck in alongside all the other existing factions in the game.
With eight operatives to choose from, ranging from a Sorcerer to a Tzaangor Icon Bearer, they’ll be unleashing the wrath of Magnus on a skirmish battlefield near you soon. If you serve the Changer of the Ways, make sure you grab this issue to ready your Thousand Sons force for covert war.
Ah yes I greatly enjoy paying for zero effort content that supersedes the zero effort content I paid for 2 months ago with minor changes. We've reached a new low for what counts as ongoing support for a game.
Posters on ignore list: 36
40k Potica Edition - 40k patch with reactions, suppression and all that good stuff. Feedback thread here.
Gangs of Nu Ork - Necromunda / Gorkamorka expansion supporting all faction. Feedback thread here.
lord_blackfang wrote: Ah yes I greatly enjoy paying for zero effort content that supersedes the zero effort content I paid for 2 months ago with minor changes. We've reached a new low for what counts as ongoing support for a game.
Models and terrain were decent, but, on the rules, the world agrees; they gak the bed....
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/30 02:30:12
lord_blackfang wrote: Ah yes I greatly enjoy paying for zero effort content that supersedes the zero effort content I paid for 2 months ago with minor changes. We've reached a new low for what counts as ongoing support for a game.
A ray of sunshine you've been on KT'21 Blackfang. Though you maybe right that this particular release supersedes the compendium, that is not true for the prior bespoke team rules.
The Imperial Guard compendium list provides a player with 2 tempting lists that Vet. Guard cannot replicate:
A. Scion/Guard mix that allows one to field two of the same special weapon;
B. Scion x2 for a stronger human force. If one is going to run a Guard x2 list , then the Vet. Guard list is absolutely better.
Greenskins allows an Ork player to play a force that reflects their favored clan better, as Kommandos very much have a Blood Axe flare to them. If one wants a shooty Bad Moons or Deathskull list, then Greenskins is the way to go. In terms of competitiveness, I do think Kommandos are simply better than Greenskins but that is just one reason people pick & play a team. But then the Kommandos have ridiculous bonuses compared to the standard ork (two better BS stat is inexplicable).
AdMech from the compendium, similarly to IG, allows one to play with:
A. 11 Skitarii allowing one to field two of the same special weapon;
B. Sicarians x2 for a stronger melee presence. Forgeworld cannot do these things. If one is going to run a mixed Skitarii/Sicarian, then the Forgeworld list is generally better.
And I'm not sure on what basis you think these things are zero effort. Outside of Custodes, most all of these faction rules have shown to be fairly well balanced.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Resting One wrote: Models and terrain were decent, but, on the rules, the world agrees; they sh1te the bed....
Not sure on what world you reside, but I have seen nothing but praise for KT'21's ruleset (outside of a few voices on Dakka). After having played several games, I am in agreement. Best miniatures ruleset GW has released in the last 21 years, barely edging out Titanicus.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/29 18:17:13
This is fantastic. When people ask why I refuse to play GW games it always becomes a protracted good rules vs bad rules argument. But GW is making it easy to move the gaming discussion to a more economics/social/political platform. People tend to flee from those who project cancel culture on things so thank you for the evil empire financial practices support to shut down useless topics.
Paradigm for a happy relationship with Games Workshop: Burn the books and take the models to a different game.
Tokhuah wrote: This is fantastic. When people ask why I refuse to play GW games it always becomes a protracted good rules vs bad rules argument. But GW is making it easy to move the gaming discussion to a more economics/social/political platform. People tend to flee from those who project cancel culture on things so thank you for the evil empire financial practices support to shut down useless topics.
...okay?
"Tabletop games are the only setting when a body is made more horrifying for NOT being chopped into smaller pieces."
- Jiado
Green skin with army wide 5+ BS is straight up hard mode and worse in comparison to Octarius Kommando with 4+ BS, charge from conceal special rule, can bring 3 vastly superior gunners than anything Greenskin can field, unless the Greenskin player spent EP to get the targeting fin while the Octarius Kommando player are free from the "tax" to choose anything they want. Greenskin "big" shoota is also a completely worthless weapon.
But wait, there're more... Octarius kommando have 2 melee specialist and more (better) tactical ploys.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/29 21:09:58
The major issue that I have with a lot of the rules coming out in other sources, like the Octarius book and the White Dwarfs, is that we don't know if GW will re-print those things elsewhere.
I can *speculate* that there may be a compendium that will combine all of these disparate rules into one single book, but GW wont tell us if it's going to happen, since they want us to buy each individual publication up until that book comes out, and if they say 'yeah, eventually all of this will be combined together', then there's less motivation to buy those publications.
Now, I'm a White Dwarf collector ever since they started their new system back in the beginning of 8th. Big fan of the painting showcases and tutorials, and some of the lore, so getting rules and tear-outs is just a nice bonus. I also know that if any of my friends need Kill Team rules from a White Dwarf that I have, I'll happily scan it and send it over to them so they can play with the rules that they want, if they can't get them another way.
Still, it's tough... Like, on the one hand, yeah the game is getting steady support, and if you're already collecting things like Thousand Sons or Adeptus Mechanicus, then taking the rules from White Dwarf to get more options for Kill Team makes it a no-brainer to get. That said, the Octarius rules are already gone, you could only get that book in that one box set, so even when they sell the Krieg and Kommandos separately, getting access to the rules will be tougher if you didn't get that Octarius book. I suspect the same will happen with the upcoming box sets for Kill Team, like Chalnath.
Again, can only really speculate that these things will be combined, and when they are, we'll get a slew of complaints of "GW released all these rules separately and now they're MAKING US PAY AGAIN". If I were you, I would wait until that compendium comes out, I just can't guarantee that it will, which is the crux of the issue.
I just got the Barnes&Noble 40K: Fireteam boardgame, which is KT21 lite, and was surprised to see that in addition to the SM and Necrons of the box, it also includes rules and stats for Orks, Tau, Eldar and IG teams. All of them are very specific wargear builds of specific boxes: Ork Nobs, Eldar Harlequins, Tau Stealth Suits and IG Tempestus Scions, but honestly with the crapshow the KT'21 rules releases are turning into, I think I might just stick with Fireteam
It's aggravating how easy they made it to expand Fireteam with just a few off the shelf unit boxes, compared to the utter rediculous rulebook/templates/stat cards decisions GW made for starting out with KT'21
lasgunpacker wrote: @kalmadea specific build of existing boxes, or a clue as to future Killteam special box releases (either new or addon sprues)
Specific build of the existing boxes. you can download the rulebook from GW's Fireteam website and on page 14 & 15 of the PDF it shows you the other teams, you'd want to build the models to match the picture. The stat cards in the game are specific to those weapon loadouts, no options to give them different gear even if there are the pieces for it in the unit boxes. Won't be a satisfactory experience for people really into KT, but it's perfect for my old warhammer buddies that have moved almost exclusively to boardgames.
It really feels to me like they wanted to go the Underworlds route with this release: solid rule set, with boxed factions being released every few months. It feels like they didn't really want to support existing models at all, but felt like they had to as that's part of what "Kill Team" as a brand is meant to be.
So we have this middle ground with a bunch of boring rules for existing factions (being re-written in White Dwarf) with the focus being on the boxes.
It's a board game release model. A big main box with two starter factions and enough terrain (Octarius) and then regular expansions every three months with different terrain and more factions. In isolation, it's a reasonable release model. In a year you'll have 8 factions each with some fairly unique rules that can fight in a bunch of different places. It's a nice self-contained game.
The problem occurs in half-heartedly trying to make it more than that. This happened with Underworlds early on, people annoyed there were no rules for existing minis to work as Warbands, but people quickly adapted to enjoying it for what it was. But KT is in this middle ground where they've decided to release rules for existing factions, but they're not very good, and that's actually having a negative impact on the game.
Rihgu wrote: Seems pretty wild. Up to 3 sorcerers! A total killteam of 11 models... phew!
Yes, but not as many as you might think. After the first Sorcerer, the Astartes all take the place of 2 of the 11 models. That means you can get 6 Astartes in your list with nothing else. That is one more than in the Compendium list, which makes me think the Sorcerer is not a good as the Aspiring Sorcerer.
Still an interesting list that makes me realize how badly GW missed on some of the list construction rules.
Rihgu wrote: Seems pretty wild. Up to 3 sorcerers! A total killteam of 11 models... phew!
Yes, but not as many as you might think. After the first Sorcerer, the Astartes all take the place of 2 of the 11 models. That means you can get 6 Astartes in your list with nothing else. That is one more than in the Compendium list, which makes me think the Sorcerer is not a good as the Aspiring Sorcerer.
Still an interesting list that makes me realize how badly GW missed on some of the list construction rules.
But that's the thing, the compendium is the 'Index' and all the fun, more interesting stuff will be coming out over time.
Chopstick wrote: Green skin with army wide 5+ BS is straight up hard mode and worse in comparison to Octarius Kommando with 4+ BS, charge from conceal special rule, can bring 3 vastly superior gunners than anything Greenskin can field, unless the Greenskin player spent EP to get the targeting fin while the Octarius Kommando player are free from the "tax" to choose anything they want. Greenskin "big" shoota is also a completely worthless weapon.
But wait, there're more... Octarius kommando have 2 melee specialist and more (better) tactical ploys.
You are absolutely right. Nonetheless, the Blood Axe vibe to the Kommandos would easily lead a Bad Moon or Deathskull player toward using the Greenskin list.
I don't really understand why people are upset about a new game getting support from GW. You don't actually have to buy any of the stuff you don't need, and from what I've hard on the tourney front, seems like the Compendium teams rule the meta anyway.. The rest is stuff more juicy stuff for us garagehammer stinky casuals
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/30 07:34:15
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