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Here is a situation that came up last night:

I was playing Eldar against Space Marines, and a drop pod came down next to my Avatar. My opponent then tried to shoot my Avatar with a couple of melta guns. In 4^th edition, Avatars are now immune to melta weaponry, and I told him this as he was shooting. Since I did not inform him of their special rule ahead of time I thought it would be fair if he selected another target if he wanted to (and he did).

 

So my question is; when should I have told him about the Avatar’s immunity to melta and flamers?  

 

In the beginning of the game should I have ran down the special rules of all my units?

 

Or should I have never told him, and that it is for him to know, and that it will be a lesson for him in the future?

 

As a side note, I play Thousand Sons, and I go over all of their rules (and there are a lot of them) ahead of each game.

It would depend on whether its a friendly game or not.

I only play friendly games and the way I would work it would be the same as you did.

You can't expect everybody to have every codex and to be up to date on every rule.

At the same point after it'ss been pointed out once then I wouldn't expect it come up again.

I would do the same as Brother Bartius. some unscrupilous players will tell you that you should not have told him as its upto him to know that, but relistcly you did the right thing.

For my Emperor's Children, my army list includes a little "Introduction to Chaos" section, which quickly touches on special rules/abilities/wargear. During deployment, I point out special rules/abilities/wargear. When I'm going to use some special rule/ability/wargear, I point it out.

Basically, I hammer my opponent over the head with my special rules, until he assures me he understands. I hate winning because my opponent doesn't know what a model does; I want to win, because he did know and the model did it to him anyway.

if i see something odd i ask

"hey what is that cool lookin (enter wysywig of your choice)"

 

but most players do what you did, "take a shot at something else, melta's can't hurt that"

 

eventually you become a vetran and know many of the rules, but even we vetrans miss alot.

 

i had a guy i played against who was an aarse and stacked the game from the get-go.

it was a friendly game, i told him what i had in my army(a deathwing list), i let him pic a scenerio he wanted, he then went and tailored his list to kill my army( i never tailor to kill specific lists/armies), picked the scenerio that best favored his army and taught me the effect of having mystics in his inquisitorial retinue, and a plasma cannon toting dev squad within 12"

 

he did just the opposite of what you did. he waited till he knew i was screwed and then dropped the bomb on me. the game was over in turn 2 when most of my force actually showed up via deepstrike and died.

Geez. What a tool.

Friendly game, huh?

(referring to mughi's post)

Usually after she's had a few drinks and I've put the Luther Vandross CD on...

Oh, you mean in a game! Sorry. It does depend on the opponent/situation.

If it's someone I've not played before, I'll ask them if s/he wants to go over my list (and expect similar courtesy), or if he/she has any questions. If it's someone I know who DOESN'T know the codex/army I'll give 'em a quick rundown. If it's someone I know who does know the army/rules, then I don't remind them of anything, as they should remember the rules.

Example: If I'm playing my eldar against a guy who ALSO has an eldar army, but is using his Space Marines (Hurr!), I'm not going to remind him that the avatar is impervious to melta weapons.

I take Syr's approach to it, mostly. Before a game, I'll ask if they've ever played against my kind of army (drop pods or IG), and if they say yes, I'll ask if they're good on the special rules. If they say no, I'll run through the bulk of the rules.

I'm more than happy to run through any rules with my opponent, but in tournaments I generally don't feed them the information. For example, when I play my IG, is it enough to tell them that Rough Riders count as cavalry? Or should I say, "these guys have a 19-24: charge range, hit at I5, S5 power weapons, and are as fragile as guardsmen. You really want to shoot them before your assault squad hits my line."

The "Ask if you're familiar if/then rule rundown" is what most polite folks I've played do. I make it a point to try to know what most stuff does. Especialy the tricksy things. I always turn down any offers of a rule rundown 'cause I figure if I forgot (or didn't do my homework) then I deserve whatever I get anyhow.

Also I'm mean and I don't offer a rule rundown unless you ask me. Actually I don't realy do a rule rundown ever. I'll answer any and all questions about my army honestly but I don't offer any information. For example I'll happily explain exactly how Death Company work just as soon as you either try to kill them or they try to kill you or if you ask me at any point before that. I won't just come out and tell you all thier special rules because I'm feeling generous.

Same thing if I were running an Avatar I'd cheerfully let my opponent shoot him with all the melta guns he wanted. He had all game to ask what that guy did and if he doesn't bother... well that's his fault. I wouldn't ever let him pick another target because I expect that if you don't know something you should ask and if you don't then you're in for a surprise.

I would inform my opponent beforehand. The Avatar rule is unique and new, so I think it would be good sport to let the other player know what special stuff he can do. I would let him shoot another target,too...just because he "wasted" a drop pod to shot that guy and now is caught in the open.

One time an opponent thought that he could nominate a target, check range and if insufficient choose another one...I didn't let that baby slip, though.

Greets
Schepp himself

Posted By malfred on 05/20/2007 3:53 PM
Geez. What a tool.

Friendly game, huh?

(referring to mughi's post)

yep just a pickup game in my local hobby store. ive never played the guy since, probably because his one trick pony won't work a second time.

the game wasn't fun from my side. the guy was even *female dog*ing about the fact my models that DS werent all exactly into BTB (because the area terrain building they landed in was full of rubble/walls etc and it was physically impossible to get them to all touch bases) so he could score more plasma cannon wounds.

When I deploy my units I will usually mention the options and upgrades/weapons I have on each one. At that point if my opponent expresses ignorance of anything, I'll start giving him the run down on what everything does. I wouldn't expect everyone to know what all my units do and how all my options and war gear function. I do, on the other hand, expect them to know all the stuff in the main rule book, so I'll call them on the carpet for that. I also give kids more latitude for compensating for their mistakes than adults.

I would let him take backm the current phase with the current unit. Anything more is not fair and can cause more problems than it solves.

So in the case in point the squad can fire at something else, I might even let them have target priority as a gimme. But they wont get to relocate where the drop pod lands.

Posted By Schepp himself on 05/21/2007 9:15 AM
I would inform my opponent beforehand. The Avatar rule is unique and new, so I think it would be good sport to let the other player know what special stuff he can do. I would let him shoot another target,too...just because he "wasted" a drop pod to shot that guy and now is caught in the open.

 
Just wanted to point out that the Avatar rule isn't new...that's how he was in 2nd edition, immune to melta and flamers.

realy he's imune to flamers and meltas!

 idont care if hes made of flame if you put a super charged beem of energy that will turn anything to atoms into some thing at what is so close its all but point blank its going to hurt

Posted By Lormax on 05/22/2007 1:12 PM

Posted By Schepp himself on 05/21/2007 9:15 AM
I would inform my opponent beforehand. The Avatar rule is unique and new, so I think it would be good sport to let the other player know what special stuff he can do. I would let him shoot another target,too...just because he "wasted" a drop pod to shot that guy and now is caught in the open.

 
Just wanted to point out that the Avatar rule isn't new...that's how he was in 2nd edition, immune to melta and flamers.

Yeah, but only about 5% of current players played 2nd edition. It's a rule people wouldn't expect.

(And a rule that could get silly if more armies start to get it. "OK, so the Great Unclean is hurt by Bolters and Flamers, but immune to Pulse Rifles, Lasweapons, Meltas and Plasma?" "No, that's the Lord of Change, the Great Unclean can be hurt by Lasweapons, Plasma and Melta, but not Bolters or any weapon with more than 3 vowels in its name."

Crap, there goes all my ordnance weaponry (bAttlE cAnnOn, EArthshAkEr, dEmOlIshEr, hell even grIffOn mOrtAr).

Posted By Blackmoor on 05/20/2007 1:43 PM

So my question is; when should I have told him about the Avatar’s immunity to melta and flamers?  

 

In the beginning of the game should I have ran down the special rules of all my units?

 

Or should I have never told him, and that it is for him to know, and that it will be a lesson for him in the future?

 

I generally ask my opponents if they are familiar with the special rules for the army I'm playing. If they say 'no' or 'kind of' then I usually make a point to discuss the wierder special rules of units I have as I place them on the table, especially the abilities that were gained (or lost) in the transition to the new codex.

In your situation if I forgot to tell my opponent about the Avatar's immunity I would let him re-drop the pod somewhere else. However, If my opponent told me he was familiar with the Eldar codex or if I did mention the Immunity to him before the game I would still let him target a different unit (provided one was in range) but I wouldn't let him re-drop his pod.

 

In short, I personally think you handled the situation the correct way from a gentleman's perspective.

 

I never disclose my special abilities so that I can catch my opponents by surprise.  They don't even know it's coming until they smell it and by then it's too late.

Posted By Abadabadoobaddon on 05/22/2007 7:05 PM
I never disclose my special abilities so that I can catch my opponents by surprise.  They don't even know it's coming until they smell it and by then it's too late.

If they smell it, then your standing too close to them, Dooby.

Hopefully one day, a law will be made against sexual harrassment in a game store...

I say there should be a law in favor of sexual harassment in the gamestore. Would
make "dicing off" far more interesting.

The trouble is, there are generally few entities in a game store worth harassing sexually. Hellfury is an exception, with his soulful eyes and long, girlish locks.

well thats a given.

I sexually harass Lormax all the time. Actually, we've been considering sexual harassment of our opponents as a possible distraction tactic in the future. We figure either attraction or repulsion will distract them enough to make mistakes. You guys think it will work?

Gamers have reproduced SOMEhow. So it's worked.

There are some female gamers around. A couple of years ago a redshirt beckoned me to the back of the store deperate to show me the gamesday photo of a lass dressed in skimpy armour in a copy of WD. The copy was quite well thumbed - I think he'd been pointing this out to every person that ventured into the store. Rarely have a felt such pity

oh, I think someone was asking about disclosing special rules somewere?

Personally I let an opponent read through my army list and codex before a gamer if they want to. If they come across special abilities like that during a game then I ask them what they want to do (shoot at something else, deeepstrike somewhere else etc). Mostly people ask for pretty reasonable stuff and I figure "what the hell, they need all the help they can get!"