8th Ed. Grey Knight Tactica Discussion - Mathhammer (Data To be Revised)

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**Leo_the_Rat**

How did you keep hammerhand and sanctuary on the paladins after gating them? Per the conversation above it has been ruled that any effects disapate from a unit after it is removed from the board (which gate does).

From the latest BRB FAQ
Q: If you use a Stratagem to remove a model from the battlefield
and set it up again, does the model retain any persistent effects
(for example, a bonus to one of its characteristics as a result of
an ability)?
A: No

**Homeskillet**

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
How did you keep hammerhand and sanctuary on the paladins after gating them? Per the conversation above it has been ruled that any effects disapate from a unit after it is removed from the board (which gate does).

From the latest BRB FAQ
Q: If you use a Stratagem to remove a model from the battlefield
and set it up again, does the model retain any persistent effects
(for example, a bonus to one of its characteristics as a result of
an ability)?
A: No

I didn't use a Stratagem to remove them from the battlefield, I used a Psychic Power.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lanlaorn wrote:
What gave you a boost in survivability?

The FAQ gave the survivability, by limiting an Alpha Strike on my unit on the board. I could put the Paladins behind some LoS-blocking terrain, making it very difficult to do significant damage to them right away. The Paladins, being so durable, were the perfect screen for the Shield Captains.

**Smotejob**

Homeskillet wrote:
In this post-FAQ world, I decided to try my GK with some Custodes friends at a tournament this weekend. 4 rounds, 1600 points, just under 50 players. The TO had put out a mission packet ahead of time so we knew what types of missions to expect. I took 2nd overall and went 4-0 with the following list:

GK Battalion
Voldus- Warlord
Crowe
6- Strike Squad: 1 Psilencer
5- Strike Squad: 1 Psilencer
5- Strike Squad: 1 Psilencer
7- Paladins: 2 Psilencers

Custodes Supreme Command
3- Shield Captains on Jetbikes: Salvo Launcher on all

Nearly all my games went to turn 5-6. My army did not murder so much as it just endured, and outlasted my opponents. The loss of the alpha strike made for the GK to be less fun to play, but the boost in survivability was great. I only went first in 1 game. I used Voldus to buff the Paladins with Sanctuary and Hammerhand, and sent them at whatever needed to die by Gating them turn 1 in 3/4 games. He would then Gate after them and follow around. In the only game I played recklessly with Voldus and got him killed (Screamers of Tzeentch are nasty), I used the Shoulder the Mantle Stratagem to make a Custode my Warlord, denying a point to my opponent. Even Crowe had his shining moment against Tyranids by getting into some Termagants and then Genestealers and tearing through them with his stick.

I really like this list. Yeah it doesn't have tons of dreadknights but it seems fun and different and able to hold it's own.

**Brother Payne**

Homeskillet wrote:
In this post-FAQ world, I decided to try my GK with some Custodes friends at a tournament this weekend. 4 rounds, 1600 points, just under 50 players. The TO had put out a mission packet ahead of time so we knew what types of missions to expect. I took 2nd overall and went 4-0 with the following list:

GK Battalion
Voldus- Warlord
Crowe
6- Strike Squad: 1 Psilencer
5- Strike Squad: 1 Psilencer
5- Strike Squad: 1 Psilencer
7- Paladins: 2 Psilencers

Custodes Supreme Command
3- Shield Captains on Jetbikes: Salvo Launcher on all

Nearly all my games went to turn 5-6. My army did not murder so much as it just endured, and outlasted my opponents. The loss of the alpha strike made for the GK to be less fun to play, but the boost in survivability was great. I only went first in 1 game. I used Voldus to buff the Paladins with Sanctuary and Hammerhand, and sent them at whatever needed to die by Gating them turn 1 in 3/4 games. He would then Gate after them and follow around. In the only game I played recklessly with Voldus and got him killed (Screamers of Tzeentch are nasty), I used the Shoulder the Mantle Stratagem to make a Custode my Warlord, denying a point to my opponent. Even Crowe had his shining moment against Tyranids by getting into some Termagants and then Genestealers and tearing through them with his stick.

I'd really like to know why you went for Crowe, and also how you'd scale this up to 2k?

**Smotejob**

Was wondering too. Strapped for points I like the champion more. His ability to would big targets is really nice. But Crowe is a better horde-mower. Now just imagine if he had a nemesis force sword or the black blade of antwyr had any sort of edge sharper than a stick. An inert demon sword should still cut

**BillyN831**

How many falchions come in a Strike Squad box? A lot of bit sites are sold out but what do people do to find bits? Thanks!

**FFridge**

There are less falcoins than needed for a full squad. Last time when i assembled mine i could use them on 6 out of 10 models, so 12 falcions in total
the rest are 4 helberds, 2x2h Swords, 2 swords and if i remember correctly also 2 hammers and 2 staves

**BillyN831**

Thanks!

**jeffersonian000**

BillyN831 wrote:
How many falchions come in a Strike Squad box? A lot of bit sites are sold out but what do people do to find bits? Thanks!

A Falchion is just a single edge sword, which means Halberd blades make great Falchions in a pinch.

SJ

**Audustum**

jeffersonian000 wrote:
BillyN831 wrote:
How many falchions come in a Strike Squad box? A lot of bit sites are sold out but what do people do to find bits? Thanks!

A Falchion is just a single edge sword, which means Halberd blades make great Falchions in a pinch.

SJ

Also, I've never met someone even in tournaments, who cared if you just had a GK model dual-wielding Force Swords. Swords and swords and work in a pinch.

**Homeskillet**

Brother Payne wrote:
Homeskillet wrote:
In this post-FAQ world, I decided to try my GK with some Custodes friends at a tournament this weekend. 4 rounds, 1600 points, just under 50 players. The TO had put out a mission packet ahead of time so we knew what types of missions to expect. I took 2nd overall and went 4-0 with the following list:

GK Battalion
Voldus- Warlord
Crowe
6- Strike Squad: 1 Psilencer
5- Strike Squad: 1 Psilencer
5- Strike Squad: 1 Psilencer
7- Paladins: 2 Psilencers

Custodes Supreme Command
3- Shield Captains on Jetbikes: Salvo Launcher on all

Nearly all my games went to turn 5-6. My army did not murder so much as it just endured, and outlasted my opponents. The loss of the alpha strike made for the GK to be less fun to play, but the boost in survivability was great. I only went first in 1 game. I used Voldus to buff the Paladins with Sanctuary and Hammerhand, and sent them at whatever needed to die by Gating them turn 1 in 3/4 games. He would then Gate after them and follow around. In the only game I played recklessly with Voldus and got him killed (Screamers of Tzeentch are nasty), I used the Shoulder the Mantle Stratagem to make a Custode my Warlord, denying a point to my opponent. Even Crowe had his shining moment against Tyranids by getting into some Termagants and then Genestealers and tearing through them with his stick.
I'd really like to know why you went for Crowe, and also how you'd scale this up to 2k?

Pre-FAQ I was using massed strike squads and a Chaplain to drop in and assault turn 1. Now, my Chaplain has much less value with Voldus being there. So I opted for a cheap HQ, and was originally going with a Brotherhood Champ. In playtesting him, I was very underwhelmed. Most things I wanted him to kill had decent invul saves anyway, so the sword didn't do much for me. For 10 points more with Crowe, I get another wound, better smite, and great anti-horde capability.

As for how I'd scale this up to 2k, I'm not sure yet.

**Smotejob**

Ideas to bring to 2k.
Could flesh out the paladins to a full 10 and add two more psilencers for more oomph.

Dreadknight GM wouldn't hurt, and without the alpha strike it wouldn't be bad for him to start on the board now. Walk up 8 and use his 24 inch shooting and control the mid field.

He can usually get near enough to paladins to give his aura out.

I like an apoc with the soul glaive in my paladin heavy lists. Dude puts out hurt with 4A and WS 2+. Partially wounded paladins usually go back to full health and that soul glaive is brutal in combat.

There are always the tried and true interceptors, but they seem a little flimsy for this list.

**Homeskillet**

Smotejob wrote:
Ideas to bring to 2k.
Could flesh out the paladins to a full 10 and add two more psilencers for more oomph.

Dreadknight GM wouldn't hurt, and without the alpha strike it wouldn't be bad for him to start on the board now. Walk up 8 and use his 24 inch shooting and control the mid field.

He can usually get near enough to paladins to give his aura out.

I like an apoc with the soul glaive in my paladin heavy lists. Dude puts out hurt with 4A and WS 2+. Partially wounded paladins usually go back to full health and that soul glaive is brutal in combat.

There are always the tried and true interceptors, but they seem a little flimsy for this list.

I agree, but im thinking another unit of Paladins and an Apothecary to heal/revive would be great. Between two Paladin squads and some Custodes Captains, they'd lock down Objectives fairly well.

**Leo_the_Rat**

Homeskillet wrote:
Leo_the_Rat wrote:
How did you keep hammerhand and sanctuary on the paladins after gating them? Per the conversation above it has been ruled that any effects disapate from a unit after it is removed from the board (which gate does).

From the latest BRB FAQ
Q: If you use a Stratagem to remove a model from the battlefield and set it up again, does the model retain any persistent effects (for example, a bonus to one of its characteristics as a result of an ability)?

A: No

I didn't use a Stratagem to remove them from the battlefield, I used a Psychic Power.

I would be careful here. You're being very literal with your interpretation of the Q&A. I believe that if push came to shove most TOs would say the intent is that if you remove a model from the board then any persistent effect would be lost. Just for safety's sake I would discuss it with a TO before you depend upon your interpretation.

**Homeskillet**

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
Homeskillet wrote:
Leo_the_Rat wrote:
How did you keep hammerhand and sanctuary on the paladins after gating them? Per the conversation above it has been ruled that any effects disapate from a unit after it is removed from the board (which gate does).

From the latest BRB FAQ
Q: If you use a Stratagem to remove a model from the battlefield and set it up again, does the model retain any persistent effects (for example, a bonus to one of its characteristics as a result of an ability)?

A: No

I didn't use a Stratagem to remove them from the battlefield, I used a Psychic Power.

I would be careful here. You're being very literal with your interpretation of the Q&A. I believe that if push came to shove most TOs would say the intent is that if you remove a model from the board then any persistent effect would be lost. Just for safety's sake I would discuss it with a TO before you depend upon your interpretation.

Thanks, but why would you play rules as anything other than what is written? I could "interpret" the other player's rules to be whatever suited me, and we'd never play the actual game. If GW wants to re-word this in another FAQ, they will. Until then, it's very clear.

**Leo_the_Rat**

Because, in this instance, you are taking a very narrow view of an answer to a question. The general application would be to say that anytime you remove a unit from the battlefield it loses any effects that are on them. You are taking an almost BCB RAW perspective that the answer only applies to the single instance where you remove a unit from the battlefield using a stratagem and not in any other circumstance.

IMO the answer should be applied universally to any removal and not just be limited to that single instance. You are, of course, free to play it that way but I think that at an event if someone brought this up to a TO he would rule in the more general usage.

You are correct that it is clear that a stratagem triggers the removal of effects. You are possibly incorrect as to that being the only limitation to the removal of effects.

By the way if you try playing the game strictly RAW then it breaks. For examples see BaconCatBug's signature. For an example the RAW just says that I have to use a 6 sided die. They don't say that I have to have the numbers 1-6 on them ( I have a d3 that is 6 sided so I could use that for morale tests per RAW).

**Smotejob**

Homeskillet wrote:
In this post-FAQ world, I decided to try my GK with some Custodes friends at a tournament this weekend. 4 rounds, 1600 points, just under 50 players. The TO had put out a mission packet ahead of time so we knew what types of missions to expect. I took 2nd overall and went 4-0 with the following list:

GK Battalion
Voldus- Warlord
Crowe
6- Strike Squad: 1 Psilencer
5- Strike Squad: 1 Psilencer
5- Strike Squad: 1 Psilencer
7- Paladins: 2 Psilencers

Custodes Supreme Command
3- Shield Captains on Jetbikes: Salvo Launcher on all

Nearly all my games went to turn 5-6. My army did not murder so much as it just endured, and outlasted my opponents. The loss of the alpha strike made for the GK to be less fun to play, but the boost in survivability was great. I only went first in 1 game. I used Voldus to buff the Paladins with Sanctuary and Hammerhand, and sent them at whatever needed to die by Gating them turn 1 in 3/4 games. He would then Gate after them and follow around. In the only game I played recklessly with Voldus and got him killed (Screamers of Tzeentch are nasty), I used the Shoulder the Mantle Stratagem to make a Custode my Warlord, denying a point to my opponent. Even Crowe had his shining moment against Tyranids by getting into some Termagants and then Genestealers and tearing through them with his stick.

Did you think the salvo launcher was worth it in these models over the hurricane?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Smotejob wrote:
Homeskillet wrote:
In this post-FAQ world, I decided to try my GK with some Custodes friends at a tournament this weekend. 4 rounds, 1600 points, just under 50 players. The TO had put out a mission packet ahead of time so we knew what types of missions to expect. I took 2nd overall and went 4-0 with the following list:

GK Battalion
Voldus- Warlord
Crowe
6- Strike Squad: 1 Psilencer
5- Strike Squad: 1 Psilencer
5- Strike Squad: 1 Psilencer
7- Paladins: 2 Psilencers

Custodes Supreme Command
3- Shield Captains on Jetbikes: Salvo Launcher on all

Nearly all my games went to turn 5-6. My army did not murder so much as it just endured, and outlasted my opponents. The loss of the alpha strike made for the GK to be less fun to play, but the boost in survivability was great. I only went first in 1 game. I used Voldus to buff the Paladins with Sanctuary and Hammerhand, and sent them at whatever needed to die by Gating them turn 1 in 3/4 games. He would then Gate after them and follow around. In the only game I played recklessly with Voldus and got him killed (Screamers of Tzeentch are nasty), I used the Shoulder the Mantle Stratagem to make a Custode my Warlord, denying a point to my opponent. Even Crowe had his shining moment against Tyranids by getting into some Termagants and then Genestealers and tearing through them with his stick.

Did you think the salvo launcher was worth it in the shield captains over the hurricane bolter?

**Spartacus**

Regarding this FAQ about the units not retaining buffs after being removed from the board: What stratagems exactly are they referring to? I wasnt aware of any strats that allow you to pull an already deployed unit into deepstrike/reinforcements. Even the GK one for interceptors is just allowing you to use the unit ability twice

Correct me if I'm ignorant, but it sounds to me like they're talking about things like 'Tide of traitors' where obviously the intent is that a 'new' unbuffed unit should be deployed.

**Brother Payne**

Spartacus wrote:
Regarding this FAQ about the units not retaining buffs after being removed from the board: What stratagems exactly are they referring to? I wasnt aware of any strats that allow you to pull an already deployed unit into deepstrike/reinforcements. Even the GK one for interceptors is just allowing you to use the unit ability twice

Correct me if I'm ignorant, but it sounds to me like they're talking about things like 'Tide of traitors' where obviously the intent is that a 'new' unbuffed unit should be deployed.

Upon Wings of Fire (BA) would be one. I can't think of any others off the top of my head but I'm sure there are

**jeffersonian000**

Until GW errata’s that their FAQ response applies to Gate, there is no reason to assume it applies to Gate.

SJ

**Homeskillet**

Smotejob wrote:
Homeskillet wrote:
In this post-FAQ world, I decided to try my GK with some Custodes friends at a tournament this weekend. 4 rounds, 1600 points, just under 50 players. The TO had put out a mission packet ahead of time so we knew what types of missions to expect. I took 2nd overall and went 4-0 with the following list:

GK Battalion
Voldus- Warlord
Crowe
6- Strike Squad: 1 Psilencer
5- Strike Squad: 1 Psilencer
5- Strike Squad: 1 Psilencer
7- Paladins: 2 Psilencers

Custodes Supreme Command
3- Shield Captains on Jetbikes: Salvo Launcher on all

Nearly all my games went to turn 5-6. My army did not murder so much as it just endured, and outlasted my opponents. The loss of the alpha strike made for the GK to be less fun to play, but the boost in survivability was great. I only went first in 1 game. I used Voldus to buff the Paladins with Sanctuary and Hammerhand, and sent them at whatever needed to die by Gating them turn 1 in 3/4 games. He would then Gate after them and follow around. In the only game I played recklessly with Voldus and got him killed (Screamers of Tzeentch are nasty), I used the Shoulder the Mantle Stratagem to make a Custode my Warlord, denying a point to my opponent. Even Crowe had his shining moment against Tyranids by getting into some Termagants and then Genestealers and tearing through them with his stick.

Did you think the salvo launcher was worth it in these models over the hurricane?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Smotejob wrote:
Homeskillet wrote:
In this post-FAQ world, I decided to try my GK with some Custodes friends at a tournament this weekend. 4 rounds, 1600 points, just under 50 players. The TO had put out a mission packet ahead of time so we knew what types of missions to expect. I took 2nd overall and went 4-0 with the following list:

GK Battalion
Voldus- Warlord
Crowe
6- Strike Squad: 1 Psilencer
5- Strike Squad: 1 Psilencer
5- Strike Squad: 1 Psilencer
7- Paladins: 2 Psilencers

Custodes Supreme Command
3- Shield Captains on Jetbikes: Salvo Launcher on all

Nearly all my games went to turn 5-6. My army did not murder so much as it just endured, and outlasted my opponents. The loss of the alpha strike made for the GK to be less fun to play, but the boost in survivability was great. I only went first in 1 game. I used Voldus to buff the Paladins with Sanctuary and Hammerhand, and sent them at whatever needed to die by Gating them turn 1 in 3/4 games. He would then Gate after them and follow around. In the only game I played recklessly with Voldus and got him killed (Screamers of Tzeentch are nasty), I used the Shoulder the Mantle Stratagem to make a Custode my Warlord, denying a point to my opponent. Even Crowe had his shining moment against Tyranids by getting into some Termagants and then Genestealers and tearing through them with his stick.

Did you think the salvo launcher was worth it in the shield captains over the hurricane bolter?

Absolutely! GK do bolters like nobody else, so there was no reason to add a few more in the Shield Captains. The Salvo Launchers are fantastic anti-tank/anti-monster. I would typically shoot all three at one vehicle/monster, then charge them each into something else. If I were taking the Captains in an AM Army, maybe I'd go with bolters, but with GK, the Salvo Launchers were a great addition.

**BillyN831**

Are Stormravens good for Grey Knights? I showed my brother a list and he recommended that I had like two for anti-tank.

**Smotejob**

I like my storm raven. I have it magnetized for a few different loads.

2 Multi melta + 2 lascannon + 2 missiles a turn with draigo giving them rerolls will usually pop a vehicle/mosnter a turn.

Twin heavy bolter + assault cannon + hurricane bolter loadout is a good infantry muncher. Add psybolters for 24 str 5 ap-1, 6 str 6 ap -2, and 12 str 6 ap -1 shots. Still get the missiles for some anti heavy shooting.

Either way I always have a hurricane bolter. Mix n match as needed.

Then load up with bodies to get units/power levels on the board. I like my 1. Two is tough to swing and bring other cool stuff.

Also a super fluffy way to play them. And they are better with the new deep strike rules. Less likely to have your storm raven get destroyed turn one from an alpha strike.

**BillyN831**

Thanks!

**GuardStrider**

New Imperial Armour volume seems mostly Custodes focused but will have some GK stuff, hopefully we will get some love from that direction

**FFridge**

Smotejob wrote:
I like my storm raven. I have it magnetized for a few different loads.

2 Multi melta + 2 lascannon + 2 missiles a turn with draigo giving them rerolls will usually pop a vehicle/mosnter a turn.

Twin heavy bolter + assault cannon + hurricane bolter loadout is a good infantry muncher. Add psybolters for 24 str 5 ap-1, 6 str 6 ap -2, and 12 str 6 ap -1 shots. Still get the missiles for some anti heavy shooting.

Either way I always have a hurricane bolter. Mix n match as needed.

Then load up with bodies to get units/power levels on the board. I like my 1. Two is tough to swing and bring other cool stuff.

Also a super fluffy way to play them. And they are better with the new deep strike rules. Less likely to have your storm raven get destroyed turn one from an alpha strike.

Thanks, im having huge problems against one Milita / Custodes Player, who fields 4 Leman Russ 1 Hellhound and several Guard 1 Banner 1 Bike and lots of Milita Chaff .. i am gonna get rmy Hands on a Stormraven now and try it out, letss ee if i can get his Tanks some trouble.

Also from what i could catch today:

**GuardStrider**

Isn't the entire FW Grey Knight range just the Psycanon Land Raider and the Doomglave dread? A bit disapointing

However new datasheet may mean access to other FW vehicles. Since they are in this book, wouldn't it be nuts us getting access to the Custodes Dreads? (I know extreme wishful thinking)

**Smotejob**

GuardStrider wrote:
Isn't the entire FW Grey Knight range just the Psycanon Land Raider and the Doomglave dread? A bit disapointing

However new datasheet may mean access to other FW vehicles. Since they are in this book, wouldn't it be nuts us getting access to the Custodes Dreads? (I know extreme wishful thinking)

And the vortimer razorback. The entire grey knights range lol.

**Elric Greywolf**

Homeskillet wrote:
Absolutely! GK do bolters like nobody else

Sadly, with the release of Deathwatch, this is definitely not the case. Special issue ammo, with the stratagem of Deep Strike, means that Intercessors are incredibly better at shooting and surviving than PAGK.

**Quickjager**

Access to other FW units would be big for the possibility of anti-armor for Grey Knights.

We may come after the time of the Fire Raptor, but we can still get some Rapier Batteries hopefully. Maybe even the Vindicator Laser Destroyer.