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Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain





SoCal

The WS/3K Chinese was my submission. I’m sure other people submitted the same or similar ideas.

   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot




New Jersey, State of Perfection

Based on what I've seen it doesn't look like WGA put much effort into screening the options for the polls, given the number of duplicates that have been popping up. If the option was written the same way you submitted it, then you'll know whether or not anyone else submitted the same/similar based on whether that option pops up again in any of the other rounds lol. Come to think of it, I think one of the previous 2 or 3 rounds did have a medieval chinese option, not specifically "Warring States/Three Kingdoms" era, but more of a generally ancient/medieval chinese type thing.

This ain't no pansy GW Armor, son - Digital Sculpting Plog, Now with Heavy Weapon Platforms!
Sympathy for the Devil, or: The Project Log from Hell

Ma55ter_fett wrote:It reads like the ramblings of a Nigerian lobotomized Shakespeare typed into a cellphone with a very aggressive autocomplete function.
 
   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain





SoCal

I wonder if they’re counting votes for very similar items to see how slight wording changes affect vote totals. Does Space English Archers get more votes than Death Fields English Archers?

   
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Ravenous Beast Form







Doesn't really make sense to screen hundreds of entries for duplicates at this stage when in the next stage they can just sort by votes and screen the top 60.

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Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot




New Jersey, State of Perfection

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I wonder if they’re counting votes for very similar items to see how slight wording changes affect vote totals. Does Space English Archers get more votes than Death Fields English Archers?


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Doesn't really make sense to screen hundreds of entries for duplicates at this stage when in the next stage they can just sort by votes and screen the top 60.


Its possible I guess? To be honest, its a pretty poorly designed poll. They are taking the top 10 of each of the 6 rounds in the first heat to advance to the 2nd heat. In some cases there are duplicates of the same concept within the existing round, and in other cases the duplicates are across two or more rounds. This means its entirely possible that in the 4th heat 3 of the top 10 choices end up being some variation of fishmen, which unless they adjust the results will deprive 2 other options from advancing.
The fact that they are duplicated could also result in none of the three getting into the top 3 because people split their vote (in my case I voted for all three of the fishmen options, but reading through the comments I saw at least one person say they only voted for one of the three because they were confused as to why there were multiple ones and whether they should vote for all three) - are they going to aggregate the results of the three different options together then? If so, then that presents a different problem, you can't just add the three options together as that would automatically guarantee the concept a top 3 spot - sure SOME people only voted for one of the options, but others voted for 2/3 of them, so you're double/triple counting those peoples votes.

Likewise, with those concepts that are duplicated across several heats, you might see someone voted for "Winged Hussars" in Heat 1, but not vote for "Polish Hussars" in Heat 2, or vice versa, because they know the concept by one name but not the other, or because they figure they already voted for it in one heat and they shouldn't vote for it again in another heat, etc. They can't aggregate the data because then they are multi-counting votes (which basically just means that the concept with the most dedicated fanbase who religiously voted for anything vaguely similar to it wins rather than the items that are actually popular).

The entire poll basically will guarantee "garbage in" which will only result in "garbage out". Theres no real way to smooth or fix this as its currently structured. Screening the top 60 doesn't work because 1 - thats not how they said they were actually conducting the poll, and 2 - because theres no good way to screen the top 60 that doesn't skew the popularity of the results.

Then again, with them basically giving us a ludicrous number of options to pick through in the first heat, I guess it doesn't really matter al that much, they are probably just looking to filter out whatever options are too niche to be worth considering and the 60 options in heat two will be the only ones they actually consider seriously.

This ain't no pansy GW Armor, son - Digital Sculpting Plog, Now with Heavy Weapon Platforms!
Sympathy for the Devil, or: The Project Log from Hell

Ma55ter_fett wrote:It reads like the ramblings of a Nigerian lobotomized Shakespeare typed into a cellphone with a very aggressive autocomplete function.
 
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN

I am honestly shocked we do not have a plastic "Romance of the Three Kingdoms" era kit somewhere yet!

I really want to make a Dynasty Warriors army!

Selfishly, I want Andeans though as I want to make/pitch a South American pre-Colombian historical wargame to someone!

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/04/20 19:55:49


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Made in pl
Dakka Veteran




Germany

chaos0xomega wrote:
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I wonder if they’re counting votes for very similar items to see how slight wording changes affect vote totals. Does Space English Archers get more votes than Death Fields English Archers?


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Doesn't really make sense to screen hundreds of entries for duplicates at this stage when in the next stage they can just sort by votes and screen the top 60.


Its possible I guess? To be honest, its a pretty poorly designed poll. They are taking the top 10 of each of the 6 rounds in the first heat to advance to the 2nd heat. In some cases there are duplicates of the same concept within the existing round, and in other cases the duplicates are across two or more rounds. This means its entirely possible that in the 4th heat 3 of the top 10 choices end up being some variation of fishmen, which unless they adjust the results will deprive 2 other options from advancing.
The fact that they are duplicated could also result in none of the three getting into the top 3 because people split their vote (in my case I voted for all three of the fishmen options, but reading through the comments I saw at least one person say they only voted for one of the three because they were confused as to why there were multiple ones and whether they should vote for all three) - are they going to aggregate the results of the three different options together then? If so, then that presents a different problem, you can't just add the three options together as that would automatically guarantee the concept a top 3 spot - sure SOME people only voted for one of the options, but others voted for 2/3 of them, so you're double/triple counting those peoples votes.

Likewise, with those concepts that are duplicated across several heats, you might see someone voted for "Winged Hussars" in Heat 1, but not vote for "Polish Hussars" in Heat 2, or vice versa, because they know the concept by one name but not the other, or because they figure they already voted for it in one heat and they shouldn't vote for it again in another heat, etc. They can't aggregate the data because then they are multi-counting votes (which basically just means that the concept with the most dedicated fanbase who religiously voted for anything vaguely similar to it wins rather than the items that are actually popular).

The entire poll basically will guarantee "garbage in" which will only result in "garbage out". Theres no real way to smooth or fix this as its currently structured. Screening the top 60 doesn't work because 1 - thats not how they said they were actually conducting the poll, and 2 - because theres no good way to screen the top 60 that doesn't skew the popularity of the results.

Then again, with them basically giving us a ludicrous number of options to pick through in the first heat, I guess it doesn't really matter al that much, they are probably just looking to filter out whatever options are too niche to be worth considering and the 60 options in heat two will be the only ones they actually consider seriously.


All the duplicates make it basically impossible to seriously count the votes for any duplicates, which makes several of the options on this poll, options that probably have a good amount of people voting for them, completly worthless.

Games Workshop are not your friends. They are not a small dev trying their best. They are a multibillion dollar company making calculated decisions about how many costs they can cut, how lazy they can be about relases, and how much they can paywall. They will do it again. Stop giving them money for this. 
   
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Ravenous Beast Form







There are no issues with the polls that a literal 5 extra minutes in Excel before the next round can't fix.

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Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot




New Jersey, State of Perfection

As someone who works with stats (and occasionally poll data) professionally, I feel comfortable saying that you're 100% wrong.

This ain't no pansy GW Armor, son - Digital Sculpting Plog, Now with Heavy Weapon Platforms!
Sympathy for the Devil, or: The Project Log from Hell

Ma55ter_fett wrote:It reads like the ramblings of a Nigerian lobotomized Shakespeare typed into a cellphone with a very aggressive autocomplete function.
 
   
Made in pl
Dakka Veteran




Germany

 lord_blackfang wrote:
There are no issues with the polls that a literal 5 extra minutes in Excel before the next round can't fix.


How do you count the votes for duplicates? You can't add them togather, because then they'd be artificially inflated, you can't take the votes for the duplicate with most votes because then they'd be artifically deflated, and you can't take an average of the votes for each of the 3-5 duplicates, because then it can go either way. Really, the thing i'm thinking about is why didn't someone take a literal 5 extra minutes in Excel before posting the poll in the first place.

Games Workshop are not your friends. They are not a small dev trying their best. They are a multibillion dollar company making calculated decisions about how many costs they can cut, how lazy they can be about relases, and how much they can paywall. They will do it again. Stop giving them money for this. 
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot




New Jersey, State of Perfection

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
There are no issues with the polls that a literal 5 extra minutes in Excel before the next round can't fix.


How do you count the votes for duplicates? You can't add them togather, because then they'd be artificially inflated, you can't take the votes for the duplicate with most votes because then they'd be artifically deflated, and you can't take an average of the votes for each of the 3-5 duplicates, because then it can go either way. Really, the thing i'm thinking about is why didn't someone take a literal 5 extra minutes in Excel before posting the poll in the first place.


I think Blackfangs thinking is that it doesn't matter because if #1 is Polish Hussars and #2 is Winged Hussars you delete one of the two options and its votes form the list entirely and #61 becomes the new #60. If so, he's ignoring the part that the presence of duplicate entries can and will result in skewed data input with some options that are potentially very popular getting significantly lower placement in the standings and thus not making the finalized top 60 even though they would have in a better designed polling process.

EDIT - The duplication also causes other issues resulting form lack of clarity as to what some of these pitches actually are offering. If Fishmen come in at #1 and Deep Sea Trident-folk come in at #200 or whatever, what conclusion do you derive from that? Do you then assume that people want fishmen plastics but explicitly don't want them to be carrying tridents? If Winged Demons and Gargoyles both make the list - should one of them be removed, or are these two concepts distinct enough that they don't have any potential interest/crossover? Is someone who voted for "Central Asian Armored Noble Heavy Cavalry" in Heat 1 going to vote for "Cataphracts" in Heat 2 (or vice versa), or will they not realize that these are describing very similar concepts that they might find equally appealing? Did people voting for Frog Men actually want lizardmen who are frogs, or did they think they were working for navy divers?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/04/20 20:27:58


This ain't no pansy GW Armor, son - Digital Sculpting Plog, Now with Heavy Weapon Platforms!
Sympathy for the Devil, or: The Project Log from Hell

Ma55ter_fett wrote:It reads like the ramblings of a Nigerian lobotomized Shakespeare typed into a cellphone with a very aggressive autocomplete function.
 
   
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Dakka Veteran




Germany

At this point the only good option would it be to start the poll all over from the beginning.

Games Workshop are not your friends. They are not a small dev trying their best. They are a multibillion dollar company making calculated decisions about how many costs they can cut, how lazy they can be about relases, and how much they can paywall. They will do it again. Stop giving them money for this. 
   
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[MOD]
Keeper of the Adeptus Arbites Flame






Cairo, Egypt

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I wonder if they’re counting votes for very similar items to see how slight wording changes affect vote totals. Does Space English Archers get more votes than Death Fields English Archers?


Giving them way too much credit I think.

All this is good for is provoking discussion really, and driving traffic to their site. Which may in fact be the only goal...

 
   
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Ravenous Beast Form







It's multiple choice. I guess there's no accounting for human stupidity but in theory anyone wanting Hussars should have voted for all Hussar entries and you can just take the one with the highest vote.

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Solahma






RVA

Given the actual point of the exercise is just to get people talking about the brand, I’d say it is pretty well done.

   
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Infiltrating Broodlord




Lake County, Illinois

Yeah, it was probably hard to go through thousands and entries and remove the duplicates. Who cares if they missed a few anyway? So the second heat might end up with like 55 distinct things instead of 60. Who cares? It's meant to be fun and get attention. And already people are complaining that it isn't fair.
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot




New Jersey, State of Perfection

 lord_blackfang wrote:
It's multiple choice. I guess there's no accounting for human stupidity but in theory anyone wanting Hussars should have voted for all Hussar entries and you can just take the one with the highest vote.


Which is what I did, but it seems others did not. That being said, in Round 1 I voted for "Hadesian Hussars" thinking that had something to do with Polish Winged Hussars (I figured worst came to worst it was at least going to be an interesting form of 16th-19th century cavalry) - I have since come to learn that it was an AT-43 reference, and does not seem to involve horses/cavalry-related stuff at all. Pass. As I said, poorly designed poll which is going to generate skewed results. If everyone else follows suit and votes for anything with the word "Hussar" in it, then people wanting a very specific cavalry unit could well accidentally end up voting in an infantry unit with only very niche interest. If you're WGA what do you do in this situation?Hadesian Hussars are in #1, other forms of hussar in #2,3,4,5, etc. Do you assume that people actually really wanted this AT-43 infantry unit (and how the hell do you support that without infringing on IP?) or did they want cavalry hussars and were just confused?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/20 20:35:02


This ain't no pansy GW Armor, son - Digital Sculpting Plog, Now with Heavy Weapon Platforms!
Sympathy for the Devil, or: The Project Log from Hell

Ma55ter_fett wrote:It reads like the ramblings of a Nigerian lobotomized Shakespeare typed into a cellphone with a very aggressive autocomplete function.
 
   
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Christ some mouthbreathing neckbeard really suggested a specific unit from another game I have no words.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/20 20:39:20


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Krazy Grot Kutta Driva





I was under the impression the poll was mainly to eliminate possible kits at this point.
Next round should be set up better but without all the "chaff" kits that got low vote totals.
We're not voting for the kits we like, we're voting for the kits we don't like by not voting for them...I sound like a crazy person now.
   
Made in us
Nimble Pistolier




Baltimore, MD USA

I have voted for a few... My favorites are

Landsknect ogres
winged hussars
Dumas Musketeers
Werewolves
Vampires and Vampire hunters

I dont have high hopes, but i would buy all of these.
   
Made in us
Infiltrating Broodlord




Lake County, Illinois

It's a poorly designed poll because "what if so many people vote for something even though they have no clue what it means that it somehow gets more votes than any other thing and wins the contest?" Are you joking?
   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain





SoCal

 Easy E wrote:
I am honestly shocked we do not have a plastic "Romance of the Three Kingdoms" era kit somewhere yet!

I really want to make a Dynasty Warriors army!

Selfishly, I want Andeans though as I want to make/pitch a South American pre-Colombian historical wargame to someone!



There was someone pitching an Andean fantasy game on their Facebook. I think there were enough people interested at the concept that I would expect a pitch with a lot of concept artwork and a few unique sculpts could launch a small Kickstarter, depending on timing and pricing.

   
Made in pl
Dakka Veteran




Germany

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
It's a poorly designed poll because "what if so many people vote for something even though they have no clue what it means that it somehow gets more votes than any other thing and wins the contest?" Are you joking?


It's a poorly designed poll because there's no limit to how many things you can vote for, and several options show up more than one time. It really is that simple.

Games Workshop are not your friends. They are not a small dev trying their best. They are a multibillion dollar company making calculated decisions about how many costs they can cut, how lazy they can be about relases, and how much they can paywall. They will do it again. Stop giving them money for this. 
   
Made in us
Nimble Pistolier




Baltimore, MD USA

chaos0xomega wrote:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
It's multiple choice. I guess there's no accounting for human stupidity but in theory anyone wanting Hussars should have voted for all Hussar entries and you can just take the one with the highest vote.


Which is what I did, but it seems others did not. That being said, in Round 1 I voted for "Hadesian Hussars" thinking that had something to do with Polish Winged Hussars (I figured worst came to worst it was at least going to be an interesting form of 16th-19th century cavalry) - I have since come to learn that it was an AT-43 reference, and does not seem to involve horses/cavalry-related stuff at all. Pass. As I said, poorly designed poll which is going to generate skewed results. If everyone else follows suit and votes for anything with the word "Hussar" in it, then people wanting a very specific cavalry unit could well accidentally end up voting in an infantry unit with only very niche interest. If you're WGA what do you do in this situation?Hadesian Hussars are in #1, other forms of hussar in #2,3,4,5, etc. Do you assume that people actually really wanted this AT-43 infantry unit (and how the hell do you support that without infringing on IP?) or did they want cavalry hussars and were just confused?



Well they did say specifically that they would not produce things from other IP, so no Kilngon warriors... So, if it does happen to slip through, they stated they have the right to veto...
   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain





SoCal

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
It's a poorly designed poll because "what if so many people vote for something even though they have no clue what it means that it somehow gets more votes than any other thing and wins the contest?" Are you joking?


That’s been one of their issues, though. Even before the poll, terms like “Space Brits” and “Cannon Fodder” were very popular, but lost a bit of luster when specific design features/renders meant they couldn’t be all things to all people anymore.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Manchu wrote:
Given the actual point of the exercise is just to get people talking about the brand, I’d say it is pretty well done.


Imagine how much we’d be talking if they sent someone a free box of lizardmen to scatter over the Grand Canyon.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/20 20:58:38


   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

assuming that fish people and deep ones are the same thing is a bit dubous (they could be, they might be fairly different)

although the individual Napoleonic units clearly are

but anyway since the options are what individual people suggested having them all there means they've got a chance to win one of the prizes for getting into the top 10 ( as long as they've not submitted exactly the same wording)

 
   
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Pious Warrior Priest





My happy place.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I wonder if they’re counting votes for very similar items to see how slight wording changes affect vote totals. Does Space English Archers get more votes than Death Fields English Archers?


Giving them way too much credit I think.

All this is good for is provoking discussion really, and driving traffic to their site. Which may in fact be the only goal...


Not exactly. There's one person that screened all of the entries. We had 1500 entries and he got it down to 500. I'm happy even with the amount of duplicates. And I didn't even work on it.

I play: AOS Death, AOS Cities of Sigmar, 40K imperial soup.

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[MOD]
Keeper of the Adeptus Arbites Flame






Cairo, Egypt

 lord marcus wrote:
 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I wonder if they’re counting votes for very similar items to see how slight wording changes affect vote totals. Does Space English Archers get more votes than Death Fields English Archers?


Giving them way too much credit I think.

All this is good for is provoking discussion really, and driving traffic to their site. Which may in fact be the only goal...


Not exactly. There's one person that screened all of the entries. We had 1500 entries and he got it down to 500. I'm happy even with the amount of duplicates. And I didn't even work on it.


Ah, thanks.

Don't get me wrong, this is a lot of fun!

 
   
Made in us
Courageous Questing Knight





Central Cimmeria

The poll might not be optimal (lots of duplicates and pants on head historical stuff), but we gotta give credit where it is due.

This is a legitimately fun interaction/contest. It is an honest bright spot in my day every morning. Kudos to WGA for hosting and good naturedly taking thousands of suggestions.

Even if they end up producing some obscure historical kit, they are getting a ton of useful information that should lead to better kits than the scenario where they just didn't run this contest. Just because a kit doesn't win doesn't mean it won't be produced.
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot




New Jersey, State of Perfection

I'm really hoping this contest doesn't come down to just one kit. I know WGA doesn't have the bandwidth to do a bunch of these kits simultaneously, but for all the issues there are a number of suggestions in the lists that definitely point to market gaps which will probably prove themselves to also be in high demand. Be cool if the outcome was "The next kit is x, and then after that we're going to start work on y and z too!"

This ain't no pansy GW Armor, son - Digital Sculpting Plog, Now with Heavy Weapon Platforms!
Sympathy for the Devil, or: The Project Log from Hell

Ma55ter_fett wrote:It reads like the ramblings of a Nigerian lobotomized Shakespeare typed into a cellphone with a very aggressive autocomplete function.
 
   
 
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