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Made in us
Nihilistic Necron Lord






I always take a Voltaic Staff, I don’t always take a Veil depending on the army. I have triple reliced once to get Voltaic, Veil, and a Solar Staff into a 2k list.

Also I’ve not run any Chronomancers. Haven’t bothered to convert any and the models just ain’t been readily available, plus I play Nephrekh so I’ve already got army wide 6++.

 
   
Made in dk
Loyal Necron Lychguard






 AduroT wrote:
I always take a Voltaic Staff, I don’t always take a Veil depending on the army.

Mistake IMO, unless you're not running Core Infantry. Voltaic Staff has too many things going for it to not include it, 4,5x damage vs Raiders.
   
Made in at
Deranged Necron Destroyer





If I have a spare character, I'm probably taking the veil even without CORE Infantry, just to have someone that can jump around lategame if necessary.
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Irdiumstern wrote:
If I have a spare character, I'm probably taking the veil even without CORE Infantry, just to have someone that can jump around lategame if necessary.

VoD can interrupt enemy plans and is actually a must-have.
Warriors and Lychguard are the main targets for deep-striking, although I've seen several games in the previous edition where Darius' veiling of Lychguard resulted in a failed charge.
   
Made in us
Nihilistic Necron Lord






 vict0988 wrote:
 AduroT wrote:
I always take a Voltaic Staff, I don’t always take a Veil depending on the army.

Mistake IMO, unless you're not running Core Infantry. Voltaic Staff has too many things going for it to not include it, 4,5x damage vs Raiders.


Wait… Are you arguing For or Against the Voltaic Staff? Or did you misread my post?

 
   
Made in dk
Loyal Necron Lychguard






 AduroT wrote:
 vict0988 wrote:
 AduroT wrote:
I always take a Voltaic Staff, I don’t always take a Veil depending on the army.

Mistake IMO, unless you're not running Core Infantry. Voltaic Staff has too many things going for it to not include it, 4,5x damage vs Raiders.


Wait… Are you arguing For or Against the Voltaic Staff? Or did you misread my post?

Veil of Darkness is the first thing you should take if you want to win, then if you have a character that can take Voltaic Staff, you should pay 1CP to do so.
   
Made in us
Agile Revenant Titan




Florida

I played my first couple of games with my Necrons (new army, long time 40K player). Aside from challenges of learning a new army, I found myself using less CP than my other army, Craftworld. By turn 5, I would have 3-4 CP left to use on the final turn. This is in stark contrast to my Craftworld army.

What are other's experiences in CP usage?

No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby. 
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






 Sarigar wrote:
I played my first couple of games with my Necrons (new army, long time 40K player). Aside from challenges of learning a new army, I found myself using less CP than my other army, Craftworld. By turn 5, I would have 3-4 CP left to use on the final turn. This is in stark contrast to my Craftworld army.

What are other's experiences in CP usage?

Almost every stratagem is 1 CP. Every turn I spend 2 cp to get exploding 6's and 6's auto wound on a unit of infantry. Anytime Lych get into melee I give them +1 attack. The rest of the time its pretty much command rerolls.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in be
Regular Dakkanaut




I never ever have found paying a CP for rolling 6's worthy.
No return of investment. Not enough shots to make a difference..
On what unit do you use it?
   
Made in dk
Loyal Necron Lychguard






Krull wrote:
I never ever have found paying a CP for rolling 6's worthy.
No return of investment. Not enough shots to make a difference..
On what unit do you use it?

Does it matter if you otherwise end up with CP leftover if you don't just spend them, even on bad Stratagems?

Probably 20-man Warrior blobs.
   
Made in us
Nihilistic Necron Lord






I have found the auto wound on 6’s to hit to be nice with a blob of Reaper Warriors against vehicles.

 
   
Made in be
Fresh-Faced New User




(First time poster - read the entire thread though)

I tend to use my CP for Solar pulse to strip cover from a unit I plan on shooting with multiple units of my own, as it's a debuff that lasts the entire shooting phase.

I've also used 6's to hit are auto wounds on large warrior blobs, this does add a few wounds especially vs dreadnoughts for example, where the -2 AP of the reapers is also pretty decent (it's an emergency type of thing, not a plan A). I don't rate the 6's to hit are extra hits very high, as you still need to wound with those, and that stratagem is only for rapid fire weapons, so does not work on reaper warriors.

I also think that the Skorphek stratagem is really good if you have Skorpheks.
   
Made in us
Agile Revenant Titan




Florida

Thanks. I've used the 6s autowound and the Skorpek one. The other I used is having a chararcter reanimated on a 4+.

I'll get more games in to see if more opportunties develope.

No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby. 
   
Made in ca
Grisly Ghost Ark Driver






The scarab explosion one can be useful when the scarab tarpit is about to be cleared anyways.

See what's on my painting table Now painting: Kruleboyz Gutrippaz 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Strats I use regularly:

Mephrit mortal wound strat
Ignore Cover Strat
6's auto wound strat (on reaper warriors)
Tomb Blades advance + shoot strat
Basic Rule Book reroll strat
C'tan change power strat

Strats I keep in mind for rare occasions
Auto explode my vehicle strat
Cryptek heal 2 units strat
Character resurrect on 4+ strat
C'tan extra power strat

In general, though, I find we have fairly garbo strats compared to a lot of other codexes. I'm often fine spending those CP on formations, warlord traits and relics, if I can find any decent ones.

All in all, fact is that Warhammer 40K has never been as balanced as it is now, and codex releases have never been as interesting as they are now (new units and vehicles and tons of new special rules/strategies each release -- not just the same old crap with a few changes in statlines and points costs).

-Therion
_______________________________________

New Codexia's Finest Hour - my fluff about the change between codexes, roughly novel length. 
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer



London

Unfortunately I think the answer is probably just "more Chronomancers". The unit veiling across the board wants the buff and so does the rest of your army. 2+ is probably the way to go.

Basically whenever I'm looking at a support character for Necrons I ask if a Chronomancer wouldn't be a better pick. It always feels like it would be.

Voltaic staff goes on the Overlord. Chronomancers have a good gun already.
   
Made in us
Wicked Canoptek Wraith






Mandragola wrote:
Unfortunately I think the answer is probably just "more Chronomancers". The unit veiling across the board wants the buff and so does the rest of your army. 2+ is probably the way to go.

Basically whenever I'm looking at a support character for Necrons I ask if a Chronomancer wouldn't be a better pick. It always feels like it would be.

Voltaic staff goes on the Overlord. Chronomancers have a good gun already.


The only exception to the "is a chronomancer better" is usually when I think about whether I want to veil Lychguard with shields. Generally speaking, it's not an amazing move since you lose the buff (no more +1 attacks strat) but sometimes planning a game around a psychomancer veiling with Lychguard can actually be pretty strong. If the plan is more about objective control than damage output, the psychomancer's moral phase powers can be pretty awesome. Again, someone will likely point out better options, but this is a fun move on occasion since the shield-guard don't need the invuln.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/11 19:25:40


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Agile Revenant Titan




Florida

I appreciate the input. Damage output was another area that intrigued me. I'm building 10 Lychguard and dropping Skorpek Destroyers and some Scarabs. The army does not seem to deal as much damage as my Craftworld. However, it is much easier to score 40-45 points for Primary. It has been interesting how different this army plays.


No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby. 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

 Sarigar wrote:
I appreciate the input. Damage output was another area that intrigued me. I'm building 10 Lychguard and dropping Skorpek Destroyers and some Scarabs. The army does not seem to deal as much damage as my Craftworld. However, it is much easier to score 40-45 points for Primary. It has been interesting how different this army plays.


Eldar kin is rather fragile - speed is their armour. But this causes problems when it comes to primaries.
Therefore, I'm sticking with Necrons atm. Lychguard, e.g., are hard to shift.

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Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer



London

 Parsalian wrote:
Mandragola wrote:
Unfortunately I think the answer is probably just "more Chronomancers". The unit veiling across the board wants the buff and so does the rest of your army. 2+ is probably the way to go.

Basically whenever I'm looking at a support character for Necrons I ask if a Chronomancer wouldn't be a better pick. It always feels like it would be.

Voltaic staff goes on the Overlord. Chronomancers have a good gun already.


The only exception to the "is a chronomancer better" is usually when I think about whether I want to veil Lychguard with shields. Generally speaking, it's not an amazing move since you lose the buff (no more +1 attacks strat) but sometimes planning a game around a psychomancer veiling with Lychguard can actually be pretty strong. If the plan is more about objective control than damage output, the psychomancer's moral phase powers can be pretty awesome. Again, someone will likely point out better options, but this is a fun move on occasion since the shield-guard don't need the invuln.

This is very true, and a major argument in favour of sword and board lychguard. I think they might actually be the stand out unit in our book. There's just not very many things that are really tuned to deal with them and you can make them obsec. They're also by far the best unit for coming on from reserve (through whatever method) because they don't need to have been there in the command phase to collect buffs.

The Psychomancer is probably the most interesting Cryptek. He doesn't have the simple power of the Chronomancer but it's true that, in a game that's about scoring objectives, he looks like he has skills that you want. I've built one and, as a random aside, I think it had more pieces than any other infantry model I've ever seen. There's also something kind of cute about a model with fly and a 5" move.
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






Krull wrote:
I never ever have found paying a CP for rolling 6's worthy.
No return of investment. Not enough shots to make a difference..
On what unit do you use it?

Warriors and Immortals. Take max squads. It pays off.

I find this combo more than doubles the damage of an immortal unit. Which is a big deal if we are talking about ap -3 gauss.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mandragola wrote:
 Parsalian wrote:
Mandragola wrote:
Unfortunately I think the answer is probably just "more Chronomancers". The unit veiling across the board wants the buff and so does the rest of your army. 2+ is probably the way to go.

Basically whenever I'm looking at a support character for Necrons I ask if a Chronomancer wouldn't be a better pick. It always feels like it would be.

Voltaic staff goes on the Overlord. Chronomancers have a good gun already.


The only exception to the "is a chronomancer better" is usually when I think about whether I want to veil Lychguard with shields. Generally speaking, it's not an amazing move since you lose the buff (no more +1 attacks strat) but sometimes planning a game around a psychomancer veiling with Lychguard can actually be pretty strong. If the plan is more about objective control than damage output, the psychomancer's moral phase powers can be pretty awesome. Again, someone will likely point out better options, but this is a fun move on occasion since the shield-guard don't need the invuln.

This is very true, and a major argument in favour of sword and board lychguard. I think they might actually be the stand out unit in our book. There's just not very many things that are really tuned to deal with them and you can make them obsec. They're also by far the best unit for coming on from reserve (through whatever method) because they don't need to have been there in the command phase to collect buffs.

The Psychomancer is probably the most interesting Cryptek. He doesn't have the simple power of the Chronomancer but it's true that, in a game that's about scoring objectives, he looks like he has skills that you want. I've built one and, as a random aside, I think it had more pieces than any other infantry model I've ever seen. There's also something kind of cute about a model with fly and a 5" move.
I'd take a hexmark destroyer over any of that nonsense.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/14 19:11:12


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Wicked Canoptek Wraith






 Xenomancers wrote:
Mandragola wrote:
 Parsalian wrote:
Mandragola wrote:
Unfortunately I think the answer is probably just "more Chronomancers". The unit veiling across the board wants the buff and so does the rest of your army. 2+ is probably the way to go.

Basically whenever I'm looking at a support character for Necrons I ask if a Chronomancer wouldn't be a better pick. It always feels like it would be.

Voltaic staff goes on the Overlord. Chronomancers have a good gun already.


The only exception to the "is a chronomancer better" is usually when I think about whether I want to veil Lychguard with shields. Generally speaking, it's not an amazing move since you lose the buff (no more +1 attacks strat) but sometimes planning a game around a psychomancer veiling with Lychguard can actually be pretty strong. If the plan is more about objective control than damage output, the psychomancer's moral phase powers can be pretty awesome. Again, someone will likely point out better options, but this is a fun move on occasion since the shield-guard don't need the invuln.

This is very true, and a major argument in favour of sword and board lychguard. I think they might actually be the stand out unit in our book. There's just not very many things that are really tuned to deal with them and you can make them obsec. They're also by far the best unit for coming on from reserve (through whatever method) because they don't need to have been there in the command phase to collect buffs.

The Psychomancer is probably the most interesting Cryptek. He doesn't have the simple power of the Chronomancer but it's true that, in a game that's about scoring objectives, he looks like he has skills that you want. I've built one and, as a random aside, I think it had more pieces than any other infantry model I've ever seen. There's also something kind of cute about a model with fly and a 5" move.
I'd take a hexmark destroyer over any of that nonsense.


I think the Hexmark Destroyer has it's place as a counter DS unit or an easy secondary scoring unit, but I don't think veiling Lychguard (regardless of the type of cryptek) generally fill the same role or purpose exactly. You don't want to be positioning your guard somewhere obscure even when they're going to perform an action for a turn. They need to be able to get near something quickly since they're such an impactful unit or even have them tarpit a primary objective for a while which a hexmark can't do. There's definitely some overlap there, but I think saying you'd take a hexmark over using the Lychguard + veil combo in every situation wouldn't quite cover things.

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Made in gb
Ship's Officer



London

I can't really see any scenario where I'd use a hexmark destroyer. I'd take normal deathmarks first pretty much 100% of the time.

I don't really think I'll be veiling Lychguard much. For me, their strength is in an eternal expansionist force, contesting the midfield. They'll be relatively hard to get rid of in that role. I'm contemplating swapping out a block or two of 20 warriors for 10-man squads of these guys.

I'd then take something like one unit of 20 reaper warriors with a Veil Chronomancer (or possibly psychomancer) and a couple of immortal squads to fill out my troops and hold backfield objectives. With a CCB Lord, some scarabs and wraiths to zoom around and the nightbringer to kill tough things, I think that could be a decent enough army.

I'm actually not sure the psychomancer makes all that much sense to take the veil. Switching off obsec is mostly going to be useful in midfield, fighting over those central objectives. It doesn't do so much to remove it from back field units, which you'd expect the warriors to either kill or, in the unlikely event they manage a charge, massively outnumber anyway. But removing obsec from someone else's tough midfield unit could make a lot of difference.
   
Made in us
Wicked Canoptek Wraith






Mandragola wrote:
I can't really see any scenario where I'd use a hexmark destroyer. I'd take normal deathmarks first pretty much 100% of the time.

I don't really think I'll be veiling Lychguard much. For me, their strength is in an eternal expansionist force, contesting the midfield. They'll be relatively hard to get rid of in that role. I'm contemplating swapping out a block or two of 20 warriors for 10-man squads of these guys.

I'd then take something like one unit of 20 reaper warriors with a Veil Chronomancer (or possibly psychomancer) and a couple of immortal squads to fill out my troops and hold backfield objectives. With a CCB Lord, some scarabs and wraiths to zoom around and the nightbringer to kill tough things, I think that could be a decent enough army.

I'm actually not sure the psychomancer makes all that much sense to take the veil. Switching off obsec is mostly going to be useful in midfield, fighting over those central objectives. It doesn't do so much to remove it from back field units, which you'd expect the warriors to either kill or, in the unlikely event they manage a charge, massively outnumber anyway. But removing obsec from someone else's tough midfield unit could make a lot of difference.


One main reason I mentioned that the Hexmark Destroyer doesn't really fit into the same role is that it is a character, so it can take the Gauntlet artifact which people like to do a lot. This is used so that you can prevent an opponent DS 5 man unit from scoring an action secondary since it gets to shoot them on the opponent's turn and can definitely kill 5 models with its 6 pistols + bonus shots AND the gauntlet MWs. Doing that is kind of gimmicky, but if your opponent doesn't have a unit for that purpose, you can also use yours to do the same move to them (plus put out some not awful shooting).

You're definitely right about the midfield being the most likely place for Lychguard to shine (especially w/ the no obsec psychomancer ability) but quite a few missions don't have a centered objective, which means if you deploy to a side and your opponent audibles on you to avoid your guard, you may want the veil to move them to the other end of the board for maximum value. This isn't a particularly rare possibility either. Again I don't think it's a requirement that you take a psychomancer for this job but veiling lychguard is a fully viable option in situations like this. I find that the psychomancer pairs more effectively with the lychguard than with warriors since as you said, warriors will outnumber your opponent's units for the most part, whereas lychguard may not and depending on your dynasty may not be obsec themselves.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/14 23:57:45


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Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Driesel wrote:
(First time poster - read the entire thread though)

I tend to use my CP for Solar pulse to strip cover from a unit I plan on shooting with multiple units of my own, as it's a debuff that lasts the entire shooting phase.

I've also used 6's to hit are auto wounds on large warrior blobs, this does add a few wounds especially vs dreadnoughts for example, where the -2 AP of the reapers is also pretty decent (it's an emergency type of thing, not a plan A). I don't rate the 6's to hit are extra hits very high, as you still need to wound with those, and that stratagem is only for rapid fire weapons, so does not work on reaper warriors.

I also think that the Skorphek stratagem is really good if you have Skorpheks.


I use the extra hit sometimes with 10 gauss immortals IF I'm in RF range. 20 shots so some 6's and S5 means wounding on 3+ often. If target is important to kill that can be worth it.

Compare to auto wound 2 hits at 3+ vs 1 auto wound. 2 hits wins.

My kind of stratagem. Can be good but not auto use. I hate auto use stratagems.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer



London

 Parsalian wrote:
Mandragola wrote:
I can't really see any scenario where I'd use a hexmark destroyer. I'd take normal deathmarks first pretty much 100% of the time.

I don't really think I'll be veiling Lychguard much. For me, their strength is in an eternal expansionist force, contesting the midfield. They'll be relatively hard to get rid of in that role. I'm contemplating swapping out a block or two of 20 warriors for 10-man squads of these guys.

I'd then take something like one unit of 20 reaper warriors with a Veil Chronomancer (or possibly psychomancer) and a couple of immortal squads to fill out my troops and hold backfield objectives. With a CCB Lord, some scarabs and wraiths to zoom around and the nightbringer to kill tough things, I think that could be a decent enough army.

I'm actually not sure the psychomancer makes all that much sense to take the veil. Switching off obsec is mostly going to be useful in midfield, fighting over those central objectives. It doesn't do so much to remove it from back field units, which you'd expect the warriors to either kill or, in the unlikely event they manage a charge, massively outnumber anyway. But removing obsec from someone else's tough midfield unit could make a lot of difference.


One main reason I mentioned that the Hexmark Destroyer doesn't really fit into the same role is that it is a character, so it can take the Gauntlet artifact which people like to do a lot. This is used so that you can prevent an opponent DS 5 man unit from scoring an action secondary since it gets to shoot them on the opponent's turn and can definitely kill 5 models with its 6 pistols + bonus shots AND the gauntlet MWs. Doing that is kind of gimmicky, but if your opponent doesn't have a unit for that purpose, you can also use yours to do the same move to them (plus put out some not awful shooting).

You're definitely right about the midfield being the most likely place for Lychguard to shine (especially w/ the no obsec psychomancer ability) but quite a few missions don't have a centered objective, which means if you deploy to a side and your opponent audibles on you to avoid your guard, you may want the veil to move them to the other end of the board for maximum value. This isn't a particularly rare possibility either. Again I don't think it's a requirement that you take a psychomancer for this job but veiling lychguard is a fully viable option in situations like this. I find that the psychomancer pairs more effectively with the lychguard than with warriors since as you said, warriors will outnumber your opponent's units for the most part, whereas lychguard may not and depending on your dynasty may not be obsec themselves.


I don't think the hexmark is all that likely to kill a 5-man squad. That obviously depends what kind of unit we're talking about, but if it's anything with two wounds base then it'll live. He can do quite a it of damage vs stuff like GSCs popping up I guess - not that those are particularly common. And the gauntlet won't help all that much against a small squad - it'll probably kill one guy. In general he'll do a bunch of damage to a T3 1W unit without much armour but very little to MEQs... which are extremely common.

He's interesting in that he's our only non-HQ character. So you can use him to get CPs into the enemy deployment zone if you want. Overall though I think he's very hard to justify. Like quite a lot of the new necron characters he suffers from having weapons that just aren't all that amazing, and which lack any kind of relic version to upgrade to. He just needs a D2 weapon, basically.

Fair point on the lack of a central objective, though it's still very common to find objectives on the centreline of the board, or near it. In any case, it does quite a lot of good to control the middle, as it lets you decide where to go from there - though obviously you should go towards one of the objectives most of the time.

I'd be quite interested to see if there was a version of silver tide where you used Lychguard instead of Warriors. I don't know if they're really good enough to use in this way, but it would be interesting to see how well you'd get on running 30 of the things. I'm a bit less interested in building and painting them though, I'm sorry to say.
   
Made in us
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Got my Deceiver onto the table for the first time over the weekend, 1000pt game vs Sisters.

Technomancer, pair of thralls, Deceiver, and the rest Warriors.
Morgan Vale (sp), Cannoness, “Chaplain”, 4 meltagun unit in rhino, 4 multi melta unit, new shields, and rest basic sisters with no specials.

Long and short of it, man that guy really dishes out the damage. Warriors didn’t do Nothing, but the Deceiver killed over half the opposing army by himself. Still lost in the end as he ended up Not Quite in the correct position to contest one objective. He traumatized my opponent though with the range he could effect things with his not attacks that didn’t give her many saves or counters. And this is considered the Weak one!

 
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






I'm just saying I'd rather use a veil hexmark over-
Warden/Psycho/or Chrono for lych.

Warriors should get a chrono without thinking twice IMO.

Giving a hexmark veil is interesting though. Think about these shenanigan's. If the opponent has a deep strike threat put him in reserve. Bring him down in their turn with the strat - get some shots into them and if you get locked in melee - Veil the unit out of CC so it can shoot. It's kind of like having a warden available for all the core units in your army.

If they don't have any deep strikes - you aren't losing anything for putting him on the table anyways...So this gives him a way to start shooting turn 1. This guy is so incredibly good vs DE and Quinns and admech....I think you gotta take one.

I am actually considering a Destroyer heavy list with an attack wing including 3 hexmarks Destro lord - I just don't know what screening unit to use for it. Can a Ctan screen for them?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/15 13:41:06


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Nihilistic Necron Lord






I wanna get one, but the flgs has been unable to restock them since that first release weekend.

 
   
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 AduroT wrote:
I wanna get one, but the flgs has been unable to restock them since that first release weekend.

He is quite rare. You are gonna have to order 3rd party most likely.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
 
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