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Made in au
Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine




Oz

Everything is going downhill, and has been for quite some time. I'd like to have a "everything is getting better" attitude, the problem is it isn't. I would say everything is going to suck until kirby is taken off the board and management revisited or until gw folds, whichever comes first. Then will be the time to re-evaluate.

 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






 ClockworkZion wrote:
 Eldarain wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
As for the "no restriction" stuff we did see for Archaon, I'm curious to know more about those pages because I have a hunch that they're limited to the End Times campaign setting, or they're for a WFB Apoc method of playing. Or both.


From the way it is worded it seems pretty across the board to me.
This section updates the rules for for how to pick an army for games of Warhammer, overriding any previous rules. All armies now use these rules for choosing an army.

Again, full context means everything. Forgive me for wanting to know the full scope of things before I choose sides on anything.


Now I no doubt will not be the first to point out you would argue with yourself if left in an empty room and even then about whether the sky was or was not blue. But ruling out time travel I think you may have lost track about what your actually trolling about, as in the other thread about the terrible new Khorne models you actually posted a picture of the full new end times army building rules confirming what you in the above post you say you want someone else to confirm, only that was an hour before you made the above post.

Your last point is especially laughable and comical, because not only the 7th ed Valkyrie shown dumber things (like being able to throw the troopers without parachutes out of its hatches, no harm done) - Irbis 
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

 Kanluwen wrote:
WHFB's "abysmal sales" and the tale it tells is usually a tale of "Why would people bother getting into the game if all they hear is criticism from their local community?".


Or it's just an unpopular game where the changes between editions were not wanted.

But no, no, continue to blame the community ('cause that's always a good idea) as you recharge your shields to defend GW.

What's next Kan? "Warhammer players are dead! Warhammer players don't have to be your audience!"

Industrial Insanity - My Terrain Blog
"GW really needs to understand 'Less is more' when it comes to AoS." - Wha-Mu-077

 
   
Made in us
Blessed Living Saint




On the Internet

SeanDrake wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
 Eldarain wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
As for the "no restriction" stuff we did see for Archaon, I'm curious to know more about those pages because I have a hunch that they're limited to the End Times campaign setting, or they're for a WFB Apoc method of playing. Or both.


From the way it is worded it seems pretty across the board to me.
This section updates the rules for for how to pick an army for games of Warhammer, overriding any previous rules. All armies now use these rules for choosing an army.

Again, full context means everything. Forgive me for wanting to know the full scope of things before I choose sides on anything.


Now I no doubt will not be the first to point out you would argue with yourself if left in an empty room and even then about whether the sky was or was not blue. But ruling out time travel I think you may have lost track about what your actually trolling about, as in the other thread about the terrible new Khorne models you actually posted a picture of the full new end times army building rules confirming what you in the above post you say you want someone else to confirm, only that was an hour before you made the above post.

I'm not trolling, I honestly want to see the full set of rules before I really make any opinions about them.
   
Made in fi
Esteemed Veteran Space Marine






Finland

Unbound didn't ruin 40K at all. It's not used in tournaments, and I've ever seen one pickup game include an Unbound list. Users around the globe report the same on these very forums. It's basically an option that's there, that only a fraction of players ever utilize aside from joking around. Can we get someone in here to state how Unbound ruined their whole Warhammer 40K -hobby, and describe a detailed report as to how it happened ( aside from "I read about it, I didn't like it so I quit before anyone even played Unbound against me. I played once a year before, now I won't!" and other silly gak ) on a practical, concretical level ?

Shouldn't be any different for WHFB. It will be a way to build an army that will be rarely used and not approved for tournament play. There should be a new way to build armies come 9th according to the rumours. People who want to play Unbound are a fraction of the ones who don't. It will get passed off as a goofy option that is not taken seriously in FB, just like in 40K. It is also stated in the rumours that the End Times -books will be valid for 9th, but not supported. If I'm not mistaken, the "unbound FB" was included in the End Times books.

And, there is no evidence regarding 9th being all about the narrative. There is no evidence to it being bad or good, which are subjective terms to beginwith. There are only assumptions and supposed rumours ( that pertain to the structure and mechanics of the game. ) In essence, we will wait and see. Some folk are always demanding evidence about pretty much everything. But now it's okay to skip that part? Paradoxical.

Or jump to conclusions without any factual knowledge, if that's someones slice of cake to go about things. I think ClockworkZion's approach is by far the best. Wait, and see.

This message was edited 12 times. Last update was at 2015/03/12 14:44:53


   
Made in gb
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General




We'll find out soon enough eh.

 RunicFIN wrote:
Unbound didn't ruin 40K at all. It's not used in tournaments, and I've ever seen one pickup game include an Unbound list. Users around the globe report the same on these very forums. It's basically an option that's there, that only a fraction of players ever utilize aside from joking around. Can we get someone in here to state how Unbound ruined their whole Warhammer 40K -hobby, and describe a detailed report as to how it happened ( aside from "I read about it, I didn't like it so I quit before anyone even played Unbound against me. I played once a year before, now I won't!" and other silly gak ) on a practical, concretical level ?

Shouldn't be any different for WHFB. It will be a way to build an army that will be rarely used and not approved for tournament play. There should be a new way to build armies come 9th according to the rumours. People who want to play Unbound are a fraction of the ones who don't. It will get passed off as a goofy option that is not taken seriously in FB, just like in 40K. It is also stated in the rumours that the End Times -books will be valid for 9th, but not supported. If I'm not mistaken, the "unbound FB" was included in the End Times books.

And, there is no evidence regarding 9th being all about the narrative. There is no evidence to it being bad or good, which are subjective terms to beginwith. There are only assumptions and supposed rumours ( that pertain to the structure and mechanics of the game. ) In essence, we will wait and see. Some folk are always demanding evidence about pretty much everything. But now it's okay to skip that part? Paradoxical.

Or jump to conclusions without any factual knowledge, if that's someones slice of cake to go about things. I think ClockworkZion's approach is by far the best. Wait, and see.


Yes, of course, why didn't we see it before. Mods, to the Modmobile! Shut down this entirely superfluous forum at once; discussing things before they come out is evidently pointless, as the only thing we could possibly post is apparently "I do not know for certain, so I must wait and see. Good day sir, I said good day."

I need to acquire plastic Skavenslaves, can you help?
I have a blog now, evidently. Featuring the Alternative Mordheim Model Megalist.

"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran




Predictions for those that haven't been been paying attention to recent GW releases.

1. IP is King. Re-label, re-brand and if you can't do that, out it goes. Expect most of the generic fantasy stuff that GW can't Trademark to go.

2. Cost-savings is Queen. Copy n' Paste in CAD saves money, expect less variation in new kits. Expect more big kits as they provide cost savings and bigger profits. Expect a bigger emphasis on rules releases, and less on minis - rules are cheaper to produce.

3. Remove barriers to buying minis. GW doesn't want to stop you buying that fifth Bloodthirster because of a FOC. Unbound, allies, detachments and formations. Apocalypse WFB.
   
Made in fi
Jervis Johnson






And again, all of that already happened in 40K, and people are playing it happily at tournaments nevertheless.
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

Well, happily might be a stretch..


We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Houston, TX

 Azreal13 wrote:
I'm expecting the appearance of this new character to sort everything out...


But, you know, with more skulls.


So.. the Skull-let Witch?
   
Made in us
Blessed Living Saint




On the Internet

 Yodhrin wrote:
Yes, of course, why didn't we see it before. Mods, to the Modmobile! Shut down this entirely superfluous forum at once; discussing things before they come out is evidently pointless, as the only thing we could possibly post is apparently "I do not know for certain, so I must wait and see. Good day sir, I said good day."

Or we can share ideas and consider possibilities without running off to ring the Doom Bell until we have a reason to do so.

That aside, I really don't think that we're going to be losing much from the game, just see some reorganization (maybe some reboxing) for the most part, assuming the combined army rumors are true. For all we know we'll just be picking up on a world similar to the Old World, but organized differently where a similar, but not identical story is playing out. This could allow GW to shuffle around motivations between different factions, redraw the map, place different factions against each other, and even change some of the history.

Or we could see the End Times become the current setting with that "millenia to play out" thing becoming a part of the setting and the world being an even crappier place than it was.

There is just a lot of possible outcomes going forward, and I know I'm only scratching the surface on what could be done with the setting.
   
Made in us
40kenthus






Yoor Speeshawl too Gawd!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
WHFB's "abysmal sales" and the tale it tells is usually a tale of "Why would people bother getting into the game if all they hear is criticism from their local community?".


Or it's just an unpopular game where the changes between editions were not wanted.


There was nothing wrong with 7th's core rules. All complaints were directed at unbalanced and obscene army books, Games Workshops answer was to take away things that require skill and let the person who wrote the most egregious of the army books write the new rules and it showed. I gave up when random charges, measure at all times, no guessing ranges, and making your now random charge irrelevant killed the game I had played since 1990. You can't even find a game here as players have moved on to better games.

Only now do I realize how much I prefer Pete Haines' "misprints" to Gav Thorpe's "brainfarts." :Abadabadoobaddon 
   
Made in us
Sslimey Sslyth




 Therion wrote:
And again, all of that already happened in 40K, and people are playing it happily at tournaments nevertheless.


And sales continue to dwindle as evidenced by their annual and semi-annual reports.
   
Made in us
Posts with Authority






And now the new edition of Warhammer - Warhammer: Age of Suckening! (WAS.)

Seriously - this kind of puts the nail in the game as far as everybody in my group is concerned - though the latest edition did a good job of building the coffin.

This would have been a very good time to do some, you know... Market Research.

Find out why people are dropping a game over burdened with badly written rules and over priced, over the top miniatures.

I still like older editions of Fantasy more than 40K - I like fantasy mass combat.

But this... seems more like an excuse to not bother fixing the problems - and focus on the models that make GW the most money.

I can't say that WAS has killed my interest in GW - it has been years since the last time I bought anything from them (ironically, that purchase was for Warhammer Fantasy....)

Changing everything does not mean that GW is fixing the problem - it means that they are panicking, fixing the problem would mean opening discussion - not surprising everyone with the end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it.

Trying to fix the problem would be looking at what they are doing wrong. Not just doing it louder.

The Auld Grump

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/12 19:29:46


Kilkrazy wrote:When I was a young boy all my wargames were narratively based because I played with my toy soldiers and vehicles without the use of any rules.

The reason I bought rules and became a real wargamer was because I wanted a properly thought out structure to govern the action instead of just making things up as I went along.
 
   
Made in fi
Jervis Johnson






Saldiven wrote:
 Therion wrote:
And again, all of that already happened in 40K, and people are playing it happily at tournaments nevertheless.


And sales continue to dwindle as evidenced by their annual and semi-annual reports.


Some of it may be their doing, some may be effects of things out of GW's control, like the current economy, and tabletop gaming just becoming smaller and smaller overall worldwide.
   
Made in us
Blessed Living Saint




On the Internet

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
Changing everything does not mean that GW is fixing the problem - it means that they are panicking, fixing the problem would mean opening discussion - not surprising everyone with the end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it.

Changing things (we really don't even know if it's everything yet or they're going to put 9th in the End Times 11th hour or what's going on) doesn't automatically mean that they aren't trying to fix things either.

We have no solid evidence of what 9th will bring and if it can or will do anything to fix the game. I look forward to see what it is just to see what is really going to happen and I've got my fingers crossed it keeps what works in 8th, changes what doesn't (like how it keeps new players out of the game). Maybe it'll tick some people off, maybe it won't. I don't care if people get mad as long as it works. If it's an improvement then I can live with whatever it's doing differently.
   
Made in us
Hunter with Harpoon Laucher




Castle Clarkenstein

 RunicFIN wrote:
Unbound didn't ruin 40K at all. It's not used in tournaments, and I've ever seen one pickup game include an Unbound list. Users around the globe report the same on these very forums. It's basically an option that's there, that only a fraction of players ever utilize aside from joking around. Can we get someone in here to state how Unbound ruined their whole Warhammer 40K -hobby, and describe a detailed report as to how it happened ( aside from "I read about it, I didn't like it so I quit before anyone even played Unbound against me. I played once a year before, now I won't!" and other silly gak ) on a practical, concretical level ?

Shouldn't be any different for WHFB. It will be a way to build an army that will be rarely used and not approved for tournament play. There should be a new way to build armies come 9th according to the rumours. People who want to play Unbound are a fraction of the ones who don't. It will get passed off as a goofy option that is not taken seriously in FB, just like in 40K. It is also stated in the rumours that the End Times -books will be valid for 9th, but not supported. If I'm not mistaken, the "unbound FB" was included in the End Times books.

And, there is no evidence regarding 9th being all about the narrative. There is no evidence to it being bad or good, which are subjective terms to beginwith. There are only assumptions and supposed rumours ( that pertain to the structure and mechanics of the game. ) In essence, we will wait and see. Some folk are always demanding evidence about pretty much everything. But now it's okay to skip that part? Paradoxical.

Or jump to conclusions without any factual knowledge, if that's someones slice of cake to go about things. I think ClockworkZion's approach is by far the best. Wait, and see.


Actually, unbound does have an effect. It gave GW a ready excuse for crap rules. Don't like your army restrictions? Use unbound.

I tried to explain to my sales rep why some of the new ork releases were sucking sales-wise. Pointed out that all the new Models (Gorkanaut, flashgitz, big gunz) were heavy support, competing with battlewagons, looted wagons, and now looters. Many players already had too many HS choices. His answer was that it didn't matter, convince them to play unbound......

....and lo!.....The Age of Sigmar came to an end when Saint Veetock and his hamster legions smote the false Sigmar and destroyed the bubbleverse and lead the true believers back to the Old World.
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





OKC, OK USA

 mikhaila wrote:
His answer was that it didn't matter, convince them to play unbound......






You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie
The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was 
   
Made in ca
Master Sergeant





 Therion wrote:
Saldiven wrote:
 Therion wrote:
And again, all of that already happened in 40K, and people are playing it happily at tournaments nevertheless.


And sales continue to dwindle as evidenced by their annual and semi-annual reports.


Some of it may be their doing, some may be effects of things out of GW's control, like the current economy, and tabletop gaming just becoming smaller and smaller overall worldwide.


Except there is no evidence to suggest that the hobby as a whole is getting smaller, and all the evidence there is suggests it is getting larger, and rather rapidly.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/12 20:25:52


 
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

 Therion wrote:
Saldiven wrote:
 Therion wrote:
And again, all of that already happened in 40K, and people are playing it happily at tournaments nevertheless.


And sales continue to dwindle as evidenced by their annual and semi-annual reports.


Some of it may be their doing, some may be effects of things out of GW's control, like the current economy, and tabletop gaming just becoming smaller and smaller overall worldwide.


Apart from literally every single item of evidence we have whether it be anecdotal or actual fact, suggests the exact contrary.

GW's figures began to tank just as the economy was beginning to recover in their key markets, and remained healthy throughout the worst of the financial crisis, and every time we get any news about any of the larger competitors, or amount spent on KS or any of a number of other sources, it is always unfailingly positive.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
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Made in gb
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel





Brum

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Changing things (we really don't even know if it's everything yet or they're going to put 9th in the End Times 11th hour or what's going on) doesn't automatically mean that they aren't trying to fix things either.


The direction of travel is quite clear. Maybe I'm completely wrong and 9th is an excellent game, in at least 1 universe it will be after all. I can't see me restarting my Empire army (made entirely of Perry Miniatures) though.

Cynicism or realism?

My PLog

Curently: DZC

Set phasers to malkie! 
   
Made in ca
Master Sergeant





 Silent Puffin? wrote:


Cynicism or realism?


A fitting quote from the dearly departed Sir Terry:
"If there was anything that depressed him more than his own cynicism, it was that quite often it still wasn't as cynical as real life."
   
Made in gb
Leaping Khawarij




The Boneyard

 Azreal13 wrote:
I'm expecting the appearance of this new character to sort everything out...


But, you know, with more skulls.


I truly hate that character.

I don't know why any other character in the Marvel universe just doesn't kill her
   
Made in us
Blessed Living Saint




On the Internet

 Silent Puffin? wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:

Changing things (we really don't even know if it's everything yet or they're going to put 9th in the End Times 11th hour or what's going on) doesn't automatically mean that they aren't trying to fix things either.


The direction of travel is quite clear. Maybe I'm completely wrong and 9th is an excellent game, in at least 1 universe it will be after all. I can't see me restarting my Empire army (made entirely of Perry Miniatures) though.

Cynicism or realism?

Realism is the stance I'm taking. One where you don't draw conclusions based on gut feelings or your concerns but actual information.

Sure I am concerned at the new edition will suck, but I'm not applying that to my expectations without evidence,
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

No, you're not being realistic.

You're dismissing people's concerns on the basis that "we don't know anything yet" irrespective of how well founded their concerns may be, or how well supported by solid rumour or confirmed fact.

What you're peddling isn't realism, it's idealism.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

There is nothing "realistic" to worry about until we actually know what 9E looks like. There is a lot of projecting going on here, and a lot of pessimist assumption that it will be "bad" without any real-world proof behind it.

   
Made in us
The Last Chancer Who Survived





Norristown, PA

I was a little pissy at first, but now I'm just waiting and seeing. In reality, I hardly ever gonna get to play anyway since I never seem to have time anymore. As long as they don't make my Lizardmen and Goblin armies totally useless I'll find a way to adapt, or else just make up house rules for em...

   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
There is nothing "realistic" to worry about until we actually know what 9E looks like. There is a lot of projecting going on here, and a lot of pessimist assumption that it will be "bad" without any real-world proof behind it.


Other than rumours of what it will be like from solid sources dovetailing very neatly with actual photographs of the content of the next End ?Times book?

It seems perfectly realistic to me to be harbouring serious concerns, not proclaiming "everything might be ok, we just don't know!"

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/12 21:18:41


We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
Made in us
Sharp-shooting Foundation Sheriff





Indianapolis, IN

 Azreal13 wrote:
 JohnHwangDD wrote:
There is nothing "realistic" to worry about until we actually know what 9E looks like. There is a lot of projecting going on here, and a lot of pessimist assumption that it will be "bad" without any real-world proof behind it.


Other than rumours of what it will be like from solid sources dovetailing very neatly with actual photographs of the content of the next End ?Times book?

It seems perfectly realistic to me to be harbouring serious concerns, not proclaiming "everything might be ok, we just don't know!"


After all, it's not every day an entire game universe gets wiped out and completely re-built!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/12 21:20:13


 
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

Or, to out it another way, 30 years of history gets thrown in the bin!

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club 
   
 
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