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Made in fr
Omnipotent Necron Overlord





From the most twisted corners of your psyche

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Hopefully my Crimson Fists get something just as fluffy. How does one represent the never back down and hold the line chapters?



Maybe +1 to leadership and cover?

What I have
LM
What I like stomping


Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!


 
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut






 Ghaz wrote:
I believe it was mentioned they're using these bases...

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/BLOOD-BOWL-BASES-CLAM-2017


The bases I got don't have the hole for the ball, so GW definitely made new ones. If and how they will be released individually is another question.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
This was mentioned upthread, but Reivers have the Assault symbol on them. This isn't the first time an Elites unit had that symbol (Assault Centurions had it as well and they were Elite), so I know someone said Guilliman changed things, but he really didn't.

Back on topic. I am glad Raven Guard finally got some actual fluffy rules. Their Chapter Tactics and the Strategem that was revealed really fit their identity as the Stealthy Chapter. Blood Angels are the Jump Pack Chapter (and the WE GO FAST Chapter). Raven Guard Scout Snipers are going to be pretty sweet now. Prepare to see a lot of them. Hopefully my Crimson Fists get something just as fluffy. How does one represent the never back down and hold the line chapters?

Anyway, the prices are in line with what I expected, if not cheaper. The Reivers are probably expensive due to their weapon and backpack options. The Aggressors being only 50 US$ makes me worry that the kit won't have many options (Flamer fists have been mentioned, and it seems like the missiles could be swapped for something else).


I think Aggressors are pretty expensive for three models. Sigmarines have their elite infantry at five models for just a bit more and that kit isn't lacking for options. The problem is likely more about what GW wants the unit to pack. I wouldn't expect Devastator kind of variety. GW kits in the recent past far more focused on specific roles than that.
   
Made in us
Bounding Assault Marine





A Dark Place

Loving this CT, solely because it helps mitigate the potentially devastating turn 1 shooting from high damage, low model count lists who always go first.
Beyond turn 1 it has limited use, but that helping hand is greatly appreciated.

darefsky wrote:Heck I have had times where I have sat down to paint, gotten everything ready, looked at it and went "nope I'm done."
 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Future Magic Skull-faced Space Knight Monk Man






Over there...






They do look pretty as Raven Guard, though...

   
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Mastering Non-Metallic Metal





Affton, MO. USA

 insaniak wrote:





They do look pretty as Raven Guard, though...


Well the Necrons should worry since they are metal Skulls on the fleshy people just like they wear fleshy pieces on their metal parts . So it's just as terrorizing as what they do.

LOL, Theo your mind is an amazing place, never change.-camkierhi 9/19/13
I cant believe theo is right.. damn. -comradepanda 9/26/13
None of the strange ideas we had about you involved your sexual orientation..........-Monkeytroll 12/10/13

I'd put you on ignore for that comment, if I could...Alpharius 2/11/14 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Flood wrote:
Loving this CT, solely because it helps mitigate the potentially devastating turn 1 shooting from high damage, low model count lists who always go first.
Beyond turn 1 it has limited use, but that helping hand is greatly appreciated.


That's already fixed by just playing ITC rules. Whoever sets up first gets +1 to their roll. Then opponent gets a chance to seize. Makes it more fair.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Wonderwolf wrote:
 His Master's Voice wrote:
I don't think the basic game structure even allows for proper implementation of a hit and run mechanic,


Ultramarines certainly got very good at it (or at the very least a lot better than Raven Guard).


No they didn't. There's a very narrow band in which the ultramarine tactics are useful. It's against chaff assault units trying to tie you down. Dedicated assault units will wipe the squad, and if you charged a shooting unit, the hell would you fall back for? It's a good tactic that facilitates the same gunline the ultras have always rocked to prevent shooting from being tied down with thinks and such
   
Made in de
Regular Dakkanaut






 insaniak wrote:





They do look pretty as Raven Guard, though...


I laughed, but then I remembered that my Necrons always had to take fear tests (and usually failed) but the enemy Marines didn't have to.
   
Made in us
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator






 d-usa wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I don't like the Raven Guard tactic because it doesn't seem to promote what Raven guard are really about. But I'll reserve judgement to see what restrictions there are.

It's the first time it actually has shown what they're about.

They're not "the jump pack Chapter". It's about time that nonsense died.
I meant it supports gun lines and not stealth/ambush tactics.


And Raven Guard, in canon if not in always in playstyle, fit very well with the new rule. "Ima jumping in your face" is not a stealth/ambush tactic.

Gunlines firing from the shadows and supporting other units is Raven Guard in practice.
The assault wing being able to charge rapidly by getting rerolls on jump pack charges is Raven Guard.
Charging rapidly enough to prevent overwatch is Raven Guard.

A "everyone jump pack all the time" army exists, it's called Blood Angels. But Raven Guard have always been depicted as an army that strikes rapidly and strikes from the shadows, but also an army that uses all tools at their disposal. Including big guns shooting from the shadows that you can't see well enough to fire back, and while distracted you get charged by other units. Raven Guard are sneaky, but they are also about synergy. They were never a one trick pony, and I like that the rules represent that.
I may not have been clear with what I meant; never thought of Raven Guard as an assault army, I am not referring to jump packs. That said, maybe my idea of Raven Guard tactics is off since I don't seem them as a long-range shooting faction. Snipers yes, but heavy use of devastators and artillery that thus tactic promotes doesn't seem very stealth/ambush.

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PPC points are easily swapped out with those of Matched Play and include all models, unit upgrades, battalions, and terrain warscrolls!

Check it out at: http://ageofwargamers.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in fr
Omnipotent Necron Overlord





From the most twisted corners of your psyche

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
 d-usa wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
 Kanluwen wrote:
 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I don't like the Raven Guard tactic because it doesn't seem to promote what Raven guard are really about. But I'll reserve judgement to see what restrictions there are.

It's the first time it actually has shown what they're about.

They're not "the jump pack Chapter". It's about time that nonsense died.
I meant it supports gun lines and not stealth/ambush tactics.


And Raven Guard, in canon if not in always in playstyle, fit very well with the new rule. "Ima jumping in your face" is not a stealth/ambush tactic.

Gunlines firing from the shadows and supporting other units is Raven Guard in practice.
The assault wing being able to charge rapidly by getting rerolls on jump pack charges is Raven Guard.
Charging rapidly enough to prevent overwatch is Raven Guard.

A "everyone jump pack all the time" army exists, it's called Blood Angels. But Raven Guard have always been depicted as an army that strikes rapidly and strikes from the shadows, but also an army that uses all tools at their disposal. Including big guns shooting from the shadows that you can't see well enough to fire back, and while distracted you get charged by other units. Raven Guard are sneaky, but they are also about synergy. They were never a one trick pony, and I like that the rules represent that.
I may not have been clear with what I meant; never thought of Raven Guard as an assault army, I am not referring to jump packs. That said, maybe my idea of Raven Guard tactics is off since I don't seem them as a long-range shooting faction. Snipers yes, but heavy use of devastators and artillery that thus tactic promotes doesn't seem very stealth/ambush.


Actually, I do believe that during WW2 Mortars, Machine guns and indeed artillery were indeed used as part of an ambush.
The Battle for Kasserine Pass, for example, was an ambush that involved the heavy use of anti-tank guns and artillery.
If you can get your heavy guns into position undetected, you can totally use them in an ambush. Its not a new concept.

What I have
LM
What I like stomping


Westwood lives in death!
Peace through power!


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Agusto wrote:
Yes, three out of the four games I have played with my SM so far was over before I had had my first turn. Yes, I did a few bad decisions when it came to deployment, but it wasn't a terrible deployment! Still, the game had already been decided without me moving a miniature. Tyranid big monsters with Onslaught and Swarmlord movement shenanigans, Tau deepstrikers and last week, an Elysian Drop Trooper list that had 11 command squad units with 4 x plasmas deepstriking. 88 overcharging plasma shots that hit on 3:s, rerolling 1:s... hurts.



Maybe you should pad your deployment a bit...
   
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Dakka Veteran




 mdauben wrote:
Forgive me if this was covered earlier and I just missed it, but does the new SM Codex offer any information on the new "Primaris Founding(?)" chapters?

I don't really want to mix up my old school SM figures and the new Primaris figures in my existing RG army. What I'd like to do is start a whole new a "pure" Primaris chapter. From what I've read I think these exist, but do we have any info on color schemes, symbols, or chapter "personality" yet?


There are few but info is sparse at the moment. The mini dex from the DI box lists the Fulminators(Ultras successors), Blades of Vengeance(DA successors) and Storm Reapers(White Scars successors) as part of the Primaris Ultima founding. The Knights of the Chalice(BA successors) are a new chapter listed in the 8th rule book and are probably also part of the Ultima founding. So far not much is known about any of them beyond there color schemes and parent legions. There is also a SW successor chapter called the Wolfspear mentioned in the DI novel but no info on there colors as yet.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/17 19:38:43


 
   
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North Carolina

GoatboyBeta wrote:
 mdauben wrote:
Forgive me if this was covered earlier and I just missed it, but does the new SM Codex offer any information on the new "Primaris Founding(?)" chapters?

I don't really want to mix up my old school SM figures and the new Primaris figures in my existing RG army. What I'd like to do is start a whole new a "pure" Primaris chapter. From what I've read I think these exist, but do we have any info on color schemes, symbols, or chapter "personality" yet?


There are few but info is sparse at the moment. The mini dex from the DI box lists the Fulminators(Ultras successors), Blades of Vengeance(DA successors) and Storm Reapers(White Scars successors) as part of the Primaris Ultima founding. The Knights of the Chalice(BA successors) are a new chapter listed in the 8th rule book and are probably also part of the Ultima founding. So far not much is known about any of them beyond there color schemes and parent legions. There is also a SW successor chapter called the Wolfspear mentioned in the DI novel but no info on there colors as yet.


How do they reconcile creating successor chapters during the Ultima Founding without the involvement of the parent chapters? I mean I realize the successors can use the same geneseed from their Primarch but they're not going to be indoctrinated into any of the chapter mysteries. All of the Blood Angels and their successors are on Baal so the Knights of the Chalice don't know any of the BA traditions/secrets they're just gene bros and that seems like not enough to make them brothers.

Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
 
   
Made in us
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator






To clarify my point earlier; I understand that artillery and the like CAN be used in ambushes, but the chapter tactic doesn't encourage that. If anything it makes a non-stealth strategy more viable. -1 to hit while benefiting from cover would have been a better way to go IMO.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Prestor Jon wrote:
GoatboyBeta wrote:
 mdauben wrote:
Forgive me if this was covered earlier and I just missed it, but does the new SM Codex offer any information on the new "Primaris Founding(?)" chapters?

I don't really want to mix up my old school SM figures and the new Primaris figures in my existing RG army. What I'd like to do is start a whole new a "pure" Primaris chapter. From what I've read I think these exist, but do we have any info on color schemes, symbols, or chapter "personality" yet?


There are few but info is sparse at the moment. The mini dex from the DI box lists the Fulminators(Ultras successors), Blades of Vengeance(DA successors) and Storm Reapers(White Scars successors) as part of the Primaris Ultima founding. The Knights of the Chalice(BA successors) are a new chapter listed in the 8th rule book and are probably also part of the Ultima founding. So far not much is known about any of them beyond there color schemes and parent legions. There is also a SW successor chapter called the Wolfspear mentioned in the DI novel but no info on there colors as yet.


How do they reconcile creating successor chapters during the Ultima Founding without the involvement of the parent chapters? I mean I realize the successors can use the same geneseed from their Primarch but they're not going to be indoctrinated into any of the chapter mysteries. All of the Blood Angels and their successors are on Baal so the Knights of the Chalice don't know any of the BA traditions/secrets they're just gene bros and that seems like not enough to make them brothers.
Hopefully GW will include such conflict in the fluff. I would certainly be disappointed if they didn't.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/17 19:52:58


Looking for a balanced Age of Sigmar? Tired of your favorite unit gathering dust because it's bad in Matched Play? Want a discount for not bringing the best possible weapon option? Try Project Points Cost!

PPC points are easily swapped out with those of Matched Play and include all models, unit upgrades, battalions, and terrain warscrolls!

Check it out at: http://ageofwargamers.blogspot.com/ 
   
Made in gb
Dakka Veteran




Prestor Jon wrote:

How do they reconcile creating successor chapters during the Ultima Founding without the involvement of the parent chapters? I mean I realize the successors can use the same geneseed from their Primarch but they're not going to be indoctrinated into any of the chapter mysteries. All of the Blood Angels and their successors are on Baal so the Knights of the Chalice don't know any of the BA traditions/secrets they're just gene bros and that seems like not enough to make them brothers.


Total speculation but I'd expect that there are plenty of Marines from there respective gene lines on the Terran side of the great rift to act as instructors. In the case of the BA and there successors, individuals or groups of Marines may be on special assignment away from there chapter and were unable to get to Baal on time(probably quite a few in the Death watch). And IIRC the Lamenters never turned up at Baal at all

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/17 20:13:36


 
   
Made in gb
Stubborn Hammerer





Also it's not even close to the first time a successor has been created with zero input from the progenitor; there are dozens of chapters out there with "obscure" genetic history and it's canon that no-one has a complete catalogue of how many Ultramarine successors there are…

"Three months? I'm going to go crazy …and I'm taking you with me!"
— Vala Mal Doran
 
   
Made in us
Bounding Assault Marine





A Dark Place

str00dles1 wrote:
 Flood wrote:
Loving this CT, solely because it helps mitigate the potentially devastating turn 1 shooting from high damage, low model count lists who always go first.
Beyond turn 1 it has limited use, but that helping hand is greatly appreciated.


That's already fixed by just playing ITC rules. Whoever sets up first gets +1 to their roll. Then opponent gets a chance to seize. Makes it more fair.


Although the ITC is nice, a) it is not the official rules and b) it only helps you steal first turn, it doesn't help mitigate taking a full forces shooting before you can retaliate.

darefsky wrote:Heck I have had times where I have sat down to paint, gotten everything ready, looked at it and went "nope I'm done."
 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Future Magic Skull-faced Space Knight Monk Man






Over there...

 Flood wrote:
...it doesn't help mitigate taking a full forces shooting before you can retaliate.

No, terrain does that.

People have complained in every edition of the game so far about being wiped in turn one by enemy shooting, and the actual problem has almost always been that they haven't had enough terrain on the table.

With the way cover works now, I think it's more important than ever before to make sure your terrain collection includes a good number of large LOS blocking pieces.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/07/17 21:15:28


   
Made in us
Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian





Sioux Falls, SD

 insaniak wrote:
 Flood wrote:
...it doesn't help mitigate taking a full forces shooting before you can retaliate.

No, terrain does that.

People have complained in every edition of the game so far about being wiped in turn one by enemy shooting, and the actual problem has almost always been that they haven't had enough terrain on the table.

With the way cover works now, I think it's more important than ever before to make sure your terrain collection includes a good number of large LOS blocking pieces.

I think that the opposite (too much terrain) can be just as bad. Obviously there isn't a guideline for the amount of terrain that should be used, but having a board clogged up with 75% of it being terrain makes for just about as much fun for a shooting list as Planet Bowling Ball does for a less shooty list.

On topic though, does anyone actually think the SM Codex will have some rebalancing of points? GW has not had an overwhelming amount of time to get any level of feedback (if any at all, since the game only came out a month ago), so how much, if anything, could have changed? I really hope units like the Vindicator (which costs way too much for what it does) got a price cut.

At any rate, I am hoping for some neat Strategems for my Crimson Fists. GW implied that Fists will have a buff to shooting either through their Chapter Tactics or through a Strategem. So far, the relic we have seen for Raven Guard was a pre-existing relic from 7e. I am really hoping for a relic fist of some sort. I will just have to wait and see. But GW FB has said that Crimson Fists will be getting their own article, so that has me excited.

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It works wonders to play with 3-5 LOS blocking pieces in the center of the board and 2-4 in each deployment zone


This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/07/17 21:49:52


 
   
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Dakka Veteran




I can't be the only one who thinks the CT is perfect. It promotes a non vehicle marine army by making devastators, dev cents, hellblasters, tac squads, scouts, and agressors considerably more durable when set up on the table, and forces the enemy to move closer and out of formation so the drop troops can come in. This feels very balanced and fluffy to me.
   
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Via Faiet

   
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Sioux Falls, SD

Damnit, this is going to be an expensive week.

5250 pts
3850 pts
Deathwatch: 1500 pts
Imperial Knights: 375 pts
30K 2500 pts 
   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain






If the dice set arent hot garbage i might be dropping a bone by next weekend :/... wait the collections ed is only 80$?

   
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Sioux Falls, SD

 Desubot wrote:
If the dice set arent hot garbage i might be dropping a bone by next weekend :/... wait the collections ed is only 80$?

Probably just has a special cover. Primaris edition is the typical overpriced varient.

5250 pts
3850 pts
Deathwatch: 1500 pts
Imperial Knights: 375 pts
30K 2500 pts 
   
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Everett, Washington



The tank isnt listed, what a shame.
   
Made in us
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Sioux Falls, SD

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:


The tank isnt listed, what a shame.
The tank and the two remaining characters will probably go up for presale a week later. Which means I will have to wait a month to get them since I will be at annual training when they hit.

5250 pts
3850 pts
Deathwatch: 1500 pts
Imperial Knights: 375 pts
30K 2500 pts 
   
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Fresh-Faced New User




 casvalremdeikun wrote:
 Desubot wrote:
If the dice set arent hot garbage i might be dropping a bone by next weekend :/... wait the collections ed is only 80$?

Probably just has a special cover. Primaris edition is the typical overpriced varient.

Don't be so hasty to dismiss the Primaris edition. Some of us old folk have been needing a large print version for a while now.

That's what it is, right?
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka





West Michigan, deep in Whitebread, USA

My god, I actually did not choke at those prices. After those damn first characters, I expected the Agressors to be priced like Centurions, and although the Reivers are a bit too rich for my blood, they aren't priced any worse than Stormcast Liberators (probably a ton less weapon options, though-Liberators came with a good deal in that way). And the Dreadnought's not 75+ dollars, either.

Wonder of wonders, I guess.



"By this point I'm convinced 100% that every single race in the 40k universe have somehow tapped into the ork ability to just have their tech work because they think it should."  
   
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Longtime Dakkanaut





The Repulsor tank may get a variant (according to rumors) and we havent seen any sign of a flyer yet. I guess this could be three weeks of Primaris preorders.



This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/07/17 22:39:46


 
   
 
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