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First off, no I don't know where to find them nor do I plan to start a Red Chinese GW pirating opertion but...

Given the love-hate relationship wtih GW most fans have, I wonder how pirated GW models would go over.  Would we be good paladins and abjure them or snap up $10 space marine boxes?

i don't think i would order them knowing they were fakes. but if i stumbled across a man at a boot sale with a trunk load of fake gw stuff I wouldn't ask were they came from

I would if they were cheap enough and the quality was good then Hell yeah. Anything to save money on this expensive addiction of mine

Yes, If they were good quality reproductions of out of production figures that you can't get hold of any more.

I wouldn't be surprised if a couple of my eBay purchases over the years were pirated. I wouldn't buy pirated copies of in-production models. I would CONSIDER buying pirated copies of OOP models, but I'd probably feel guilty about it afterwards; there is a whole collector's market for Citadel miniatures that is frequently separate from the gamers' market.  

Nope. If I'm not going to buy actual GW models, I'd rather buy some of the nice models coming out of other companies. (Nevermind I'm an intellecual property attorney....)

I am with Janthkin, I would NEVER knowingly buy pirated GW products.

Darrian

Never.
Why would I pay money for something I can make myself? Janthkin can tell me if I'm wrong, but I believe that once I buy something, I can legally make copies of it for my own sole private use. Selling such copies would be illegal, but if I want to cast a Steam Tank in resin, then chop it up to use in a diorama, that is fine.

I wouldn't KNOWINGLY buy pirated merchandise.

ender502

It's a trap!  We won't be hearing from anyone who said yes ever again.









Yo, I'll be in the back of the bakery in ten minutes.  Just bring the goods

Who says your not unknowingly buying pirated stuff right now?

How can you prove that what you buy that says "Made in England" with the games workshop crap all over it is actually verifiably GW produced, overpriced oil by products and tin amalgams??

Seems a silly question, but it might not be so silly when todays technology can reproduce such things so cheaply. I know the asian markt does this already with alot of model kits.

In fact, I am quite suprised that it isnt happening already with GW models.

Gundam comes to mind immediatly of such kits. They are quite good knock offs too. Its as iff the people who are pirating them made their own plastics injection molds...


Which brings me back to my original question, how can you prove your buying bonafide GW products unless you buy directly from the manufacturer?

I never buy pirated goods. Whether that means stolen or knock-offs. Either way it's reprehensible.

Nope. I like the hobby; why would I want to kill the incentive to design more miniatures?

Of course, I don't have a problem buying miniatures that are 'compatible with' GW products, but I wouldn't buy recasts.

>>I believe that once I buy something, I can legally make copies of it for my own sole private use.

No, that would still be illegal even though for sole private use.

What nobody buys pirate DVD's?

I have no problem buying pirated GW models, heck any Pirated models for a major game company I would buy. Where I draw the line is buying pirated mom and pop minis. For example if some guy was cranking out Hasslefree or Wyrd knock offs I would be very pissed.

Short answer: you're wrong. You purchased ONE copyrighted work (a steam tank); that doesn't provide you any license to create copies of that work, regardless of the intended usage of those copies. (Where commercial/non-commercial comes in is the damages you're liable for.)

Longer answer: "But what about fair use?" I hear someone cry. There are no applicable exceptions that apply to wholesale reproduction of a copyrighted model, in the situation you describe.

(Disclaimer: Not a legal opinion; seek your own counsel before acting on any of the statements I offer.)

It's amazing the "moral" rules people will come up with to rationalize their actions.

I do not knowingly buy pirate DVDs or miniatures or games or anything. I work in the videogames industry which is reliant on protecting its IP so I have a particular perspective on the issue.

I copy my CDs to iTunes, and I do not consider this morally to be a violation even though I know it is illegal.

When I was a student I used to tape records. More recently I have dubbed CDs to MiniDisc.

>>It's amazing the "moral" rules people will come up with to rationalize their actions

Yes, look at me. I know it's illegal to rip my CDs to iTunes but I don't "feel" it's wrong.

Posted By Kilkrazy on 06/24/2007 12:56 AM
>>It's amazing the "moral" rules people will come up with to rationalize their actions

Yes, look at me. I know it's illegal to rip my CDs to iTunes but I don't "feel" it's wrong.

I think in the States it is legal to copy something you own to another format but not distribute it.  I know windows media automatically does it and even looks up song titles and album covers for me. 

I keep or throw out the CDs, I don't resell them.

I own exactly 2 priate DVDs, both OOP movies.  Even in Red China I seek out legit copies, paying the userous fee of Y30 (about US$4.50) rahter than Y10.  Of course I'm here on an expat salary so my virtue has to be taken with a grain of salt.

I would love to know the logic behind buying priated GW minis, but not from mom and pop sellers.  I guess you're thinking of the old Blacktree figures that were GW recasts?

 

The logic being that they are cheaper than hat GW charges seems like the most logical answer. I have not bought any that were pirates as I dont see any around so I am not sure how good quality they are?

Morally I dont think its wrong. If GW makes a product and somebody else does it cheaper why not. Its called capitalism if I am not mistaken. Before somebody talks about IEP or IP or whatever its called I would like to add as a comsumer I dont care if the seller has broken the rules. I just want the product for as cheap as I can get it (without the quality being crap)

>>I think in the States it is legal to copy something you own to another format but not distribute it.

Not in the UK. Everyone does it though. There's an exception to the copyright laws to allow home taping of TV broadcasts.

>>I would love to know the logic behind buying priated GW minis, but not from mom and pop sellers

GW is The Man, and he's just trying to enslave and grind you down with his Roman laws. So pirating his stuff is a form of freedom fighting. Your mom'n'pop operators are just little guys like you so they shouldn't be attacked like that.

Oh mom and pops are small scale. Yeah support them, buy mom and pops. They got little kids to feed aswell. think of mom and pops kids.

All GW has to feed is the DEVIL (directors)

@Janthkin: Thanks for clearing that up. I don't want to take the thread off-topic, but I would like to ask for clarification. You said "wholesale". What exactly did you mean? Are you saying that I cannot legally copy the entire model, but if I were to copy portions of it, that would be okay? For example, if I were to copy just the left-side armor.

If I were to painstakingly build an exact copy, using plasticard & greenstuff, is that different from making a mold of the model and casting it in resin?

And what about Scibor? He is always selling heavily converted miniatures. Does the fact that somewhere, deep inside all the press-molded greenstuff, there lurks a GW terminator, that he paid for, protect him from copyright infringement?

A side note: once, long ago, I tried to make molds in RTV rubber and copy some miniatures using resin. The results were disappointing, the wastage excessive, and the expense exhorbitant. The simple fact of the matter is, it is cheaper to buy minis from the manufacturer than it is to try to copy them yourself. Which is why pirates end up trying to sell their recasts, no doubt; to recoup their investment.

The basic US rules on copyright are found here.

http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html

All signatories to the Berne Convention will have very similar rules.

A miniature would be considered a piece of sculpture. It has inherent copyright that belongs to GW.

Making an exact copy of even a piece of a model would probably be considered an infringement since you would have copied the design of the original, however you did it.

If Scibor moulds and replicates his modified figurines, he is creating derivative works which is also a violation. If he sells individual figures built up on GW miniatures he paid for, that might also be a derivative work but it is unlikely he could be successfully sued for it.

As with many aspects of law, especially civil law, results of any legal proceedings cannot be predicted with accuracy.

Killkrazy pretty much covered it.

Nah probably not. I like to know where my miniatures are coming from, etc.

It does piss me off with music on the other hand, because I feel that albums etc are only so expensive because the artists and producers are massively overpaid.
(Same with films)
But I don't pirate that stuff either, because I'm paranoid.

paranoid about what?

Simply, although many have argued that GW models are overpriced (Indeed, probably really worth their weight in gold), I'd have to be really hard pressed to buy a pirated model. From a pure cost standpoint, the investment the pirate must put into obtaining the materials necessary to make selling complete copies viable are huge, therefore you will find that the cost of the copy is nearly the same as the real deal. With this, you will also get questionable quality (Hollows, shallows, obscured detail).

I do however, see no problem in seeing copies of heavily converted GW models, regardless of the questionable legality.