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On a totally in no way related note, I'm super, super happy with what they've done with third edition. I love the emphasis on thematic crews and how that gives most masters a playstyle more interconnected with their entire list. I also think it'll make the game a lot easier to buy into and learn overall. My playgroup went from "plays a bit but didn't totally get it" to one of our top games with 3rd edition. Really looking forward to this release.
On a totally in no way related note, I'm super, super happy with what they've done with third edition. I love the emphasis on thematic crews and how that gives most masters a playstyle more interconnected with their entire list. I also think it'll make the game a lot easier to buy into and learn overall. My playgroup went from "plays a bit but didn't totally get it" to one of our top games with 3rd edition. Really looking forward to this release.
Same. I only got in a few games but I'm excited about where it's heading.
The galaxy is littered with the single-planet graveyards of civilisations which made the economically sensible decision not to explore space.
A decent look at the Wrydscape terrain previewed/released at Gencon, looks good, can be combined and as Warren says has plenty of scope for use in painting dioramas as well as games
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/01/12 14:49:55
Honestly, I've barely skimmed the rules but was very surprised by the sheer number of thematic model selection options that went away.
Like, I totally get that there can be shifts in selection, strength, etc. with any edition update, but I've never seen so many lost thematic selections (ex: ones where they're called out by keyword or even by name), faction swaps (from single models to whole sets), and removed models in just about any edition update I can think of.
The last time I got hit this much was back whenever they discontinued the Lost and the Damned; while that was a whole army dropped, at least it had the excuse of being a niche where it mostly existed as conversion fodder and without any new kits (the closest being a kitbash set).
Yeah, I went from 4 Neverborn masters to 1, losing Lilith, Collodi and Lynch. The dead man's hand rules are fething stupid. If they want to have their fluff tea party and kill off masters, that should only be for special themed events, not standard play. Moreover, it means that those crews wont get more releases, and will be less balanced. Maybe don't replace long time masters like Lillith with randos no one has heard about? If they want a meta plot, the place for that is in the RPG.
I'm a little surprised there aren't more dual keyword models, but keywords have such a great coherent playstyle in the new edition I've noticed the ones that do exist really struggle to work in both crews anyway.
For the most part though I really like where most models ended up. Like, I'm glad they didn't try to force the wizards in with Ironsides. Generally speaking Arcanists had a major shakeup but I love where they landed. For a faction that I heavily lamented being homogenized into an M&SU blog, they did a really good job making M&SU, Augmented, Foundry and the rouge mage Arcanists distinct from one another.
My gut says they're moving away from factions in general or at least want to get to a place where Masters can change factions more freely. I'd not at all be surprised to see masters rotate in and out of the Dead Man's Hand space and slide from one loyalty to another. I could also see tournaments shifting away from factions towards something like "bring 3 keywords" kind of stuff.
In any case, I think the new design is super healthy for the game. The primary issue is that its coming after an edition of the game that was just kind of a structural mess that demanded some pretty impractical, sprawling collections that really only worked for hardcore players. I've gotten more interest since the boundaries were announced than I did for all of M2E.
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Bossk_Hogg wrote: Yeah, I went from 4 Neverborn masters to 1, losing Lilith, Collodi and Lynch. The dead man's hand rules are fething stupid. If they want to have their fluff tea party and kill off masters, that should only be for special themed events, not standard play. Moreover, it means that those crews wont get more releases, and will be less balanced. Maybe don't replace long time masters like Lillith with randos no one has heard about? If they want a meta plot, the place for that is in the RPG.
You've really never heard of Nekima?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/18 16:42:04
Some of the new core rules I love (Pass tokens!) and others I'm unsure about (Burning never goes away unless a friend puts you out), but I didn't see anything that I thought was a straight up bad decision. It'll take a few games to be able to judge, but I think the core set absolutely moved in the right direction.
I play TT, so I escaped the Re-keywording Hammer pretty okay. We lost Brewmaster (who I don't have) and I think that's it. My old Mercenary models are now Outcast exclusive, so I think I'm going to have to pick up the Viks at some point.
A buddy of mine has the Wild Ones box which is now illegal to field together. That sucks.
The nice thing about the burning change is that it isn't nearly as impactful in terms of damage, but the fact it doesn't go away means that it can be used to set up more interesting things on models that want to manipulate it like Sonnia and Kaeris.
Bossk_Hogg wrote: Yeah, I went from 4 Neverborn masters to 1, losing Lilith, Collodi and Lynch. The dead man's hand rules are fething stupid. If they want to have their fluff tea party and kill off masters, that should only be for special themed events, not standard play. Moreover, it means that those crews wont get more releases, and will be less balanced. Maybe don't replace long time masters like Lillith with randos no one has heard about? If they want a meta plot, the place for that is in the RPG.
You've really never heard of Nekima?
I was actually thinking about Euripides. Poorly phrased though, as Nekima did replace Lilith literally. I think either of them could have ended up as an Outcast/Neverborn dual master. Removing Lynch to make room for Marcus and completely removing Collodi makes no sense.
Bossk_Hogg wrote: Yeah, I went from 4 Neverborn masters to 1, losing Lilith, Collodi and Lynch. The dead man's hand rules are fething stupid. If they want to have their fluff tea party and kill off masters, that should only be for special themed events, not standard play. Moreover, it means that those crews wont get more releases, and will be less balanced. Maybe don't replace long time masters like Lillith with randos no one has heard about? If they want a meta plot, the place for that is in the RPG.
You've really never heard of Nekima?
I was actually thinking about Euripides. Poorly phrased though, as Nekima did replace Lilith literally. I think either of them could have ended up as an Outcast/Neverborn dual master. Removing Lynch to make room for Marcus and completely removing Collodi makes no sense.
I'm a hair surprised Marcus didn't go Neverborn/Bayou honestly, He's been an odd fit in Arcanists for a while. I personally find Euripides kind of exciting, but removing Cololdi is still a head scratcher to me. I assumed the proprieter of the Qi and Gong was going to be a poorly disguised puppetman personally. In good news, it does appear they're easing up on DMH a bit. The Open Beta added faction tags back on Lilith/Collodi/Ramos/Nicodem and has them more of just an additional master that tournaments can choose to disallow. I think they got really hung up on ensuring master parity across the game and not having too many options in general. My gut says they want to be able to add a new master, shift a master out of a current faction into another and wherever there's an extra kill someone off and drop them in the DMH bucket. I'm hoping that we just start limiting how many different keywords we can use instead and let the master count grow in whatever direction works best. Faction has always been a problematic concept for the game that I'm happy to see it move away from.
One thing about the DMH masters I find interesting is that with the exception of Collodi (going to scratch off a chunk of my scalp with him) all the DMH masters help destroy the game's original faction binding characters. The original 4 were kind of bundled under the Governor, Ramos, Lilith, and Nico. Removing them helps facilitate a little more individual identity in the remaining masters. It's really noticeable for me in Arcanists, where it no longer feels like everything is trying to force itself into the spiderman bucket. I see something similar with Nico, though in that case there's an obvious desire to remove the massive design constraint his master of all undead status put on the faction. Even Lilith to a certain degree was a little too forest monster + nephilim and without her you see those sides defined better in Nekima and Titania. Collodi is just bizarre though.
McCabe is 10T only and doesn't have a way to hire Mounted Guard. I'd guess they'll just decide the power wheel sisters count as proxies for something else eventually though.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/18 17:57:42
The Collodi announcement down the line was meant to be the exact reason why Collodi isn't in M3E. We already know why Ramos (arrested), Lillith (trrapped), and Nico (dead/trapped) aren't in, but Collodi's storyline hadn't been revealed.
oomiestompa wrote: We lost Brewmaster (who I don't have) and I think that's it.
Irony of ironies, I'm a long time 10T player who keeps flirting with Grems, and now I find myself suddenly becoming a Gremlin player thanks to Brewie being my next main. I guess it was ... fate
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/01/18 20:05:00
oomiestompa wrote: We lost Brewmaster (who I don't have) and I think that's it.
Irony of ironies, I'm a long time 10T player who keeps flirting with Grems, and now I find myself suddenly becoming a Gremlin player thanks to Brewie being my next main. I guess it was ... fate
I had a friend start the game with 10T Brewie like a week or two before they announced M3E. He jumped in the beta, tried out the Backdraft/Whiskey Golem stuff and decided he'd just stumble into Gremlin instead.
Bossk_Hogg wrote: Yeah, I went from 4 Neverborn masters to 1, losing Lilith, Collodi and Lynch. The dead man's hand rules are fething stupid. If they want to have their fluff tea party and kill off masters, that should only be for special themed events, not standard play. Moreover, it means that those crews wont get more releases, and will be less balanced. Maybe don't replace long time masters like Lillith with randos no one has heard about? If they want a meta plot, the place for that is in the RPG.
Yeah, it's pretty frustrating and confusing. I didn't lose any of my masters, but Lucius can't take his Guardmen or Dashel as NB (that's he's come with in every edition), Tara can't take her Death Marshals (that she's been really heavily mechanically and thematically linked to) and has lost a faction (including more thematic burying models) and all her summons, Somer has lost his pig interactions... Pretty much the only master I played whose main options were untouched is Mei Feng.
I'm honestly pretty irritated that:
1- the additional masters weren't fit in so the DMH masters could fit as variations on them (i.e. it's not a stretch to fit Ramos as variant Hoffman) so they could stay officially legal (having dealt with years of FW "mostly legal")
2- masters lost thematic models associated with them
3- models were shifted to other factions
Like, I totally get there being issues with dual faction masters, there being mechanical reasons to avoid bloat, wanting to do away with some auto-picks with sprawling faction/merc access, and wanting to continue the narrative, but it felt like Wyrd had no interest in players being able to keep intact thematic collections. I was pretty ready for playing around in the new edition, but I'm a bit disappointed now, since more than half of my favorite crew, and half of my other favorite, aren't legal.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/18 22:20:37
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Pretty much the same. They only have 1 stat card now and are just the only Master that you can take more than one of. The can chain activate and port to one another's location. The AoE Whirlwind is toned down but can trigger the other to attack to output quite a bit of damage. Their crew's themed ability is a 2" push at the start of the turn, letting them break engagement or just get up the field faster.
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spiralingcadaver wrote: Yeah, it's pretty frustrating and confusing. I didn't lose any of my masters, but Lucius can't take his Guardmen or Dashel as NB (that's he's come with in every edition), Tara can't take her Death Marshals (that she's been really heavily mechanically and thematically linked to) and has lost a faction (including more thematic burying models) and all her summons, Somer has lost his pig interactions... Pretty much the only master I played whose main options were untouched is Mei Feng.
I'm honestly pretty irritated that:
1- the additional masters weren't fit in so the DMH masters could fit as variations on them (i.e. it's not a stretch to fit Ramos as variant Hoffman) so they could stay officially legal (having dealt with years of FW "mostly legal")
2- masters lost thematic models associated with them
3- models were shifted to other factions
Like, I totally get there being issues with dual faction masters, there being mechanical reasons to avoid bloat, wanting to do away with some auto-picks with sprawling faction/merc access, and wanting to continue the narrative, but it felt like Wyrd had no interest in players being able to keep intact thematic collections. I was pretty ready for playing around in the new edition, but I'm a bit disappointed now, since more than half of my favorite crew, and half of my other favorite, aren't legal.
In Dashel's case, its mostly because he took Lucius's crew from him and became the most promoted model in the game. Personally I'm happier with both of them now. Dashel really makes "the Guard army" a thing in a way that always sounded good on paper but never worked out. Lucius's new crew fits his character a lot better, IMO. It always felt odd with him trying to serve as some kind of general and the new Hitman and white gloves disposing the body works a lot better for me. My one big disappointment is the Austringers and the whole Frontier theme in general. Feels like it overlaps Perdita too much for me and feels like its not McCabe for no real reason.
I also think its important to keep in mind that some masters are totally playable but still replaced for all it matters. I'd rather have Ramos as semi-official with his old playstyle than not-Hoffman (who's completely different anyway). In terms of playability, anything so competitive that it disallows DMH is going to be based on a subset of a faction anyway. It's not like you can take Ramos to a competitive M2E event either... :(
I guess it just doesn't bother me because M2E just got the point for me where it was such a jumbled mess I'm not sure what I'd define as a thematic collection anymore. I get that the shuffle is frustrating and I'm not happy with every change, but the new definitions of what make a thematic collection work a lot better for me and the reinforced playstyle across them really makes the game click for me.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/18 23:19:00
Pretty much the same. They only have 1 stat card now and are just the only Master that you can take more than one of. The can chain activate and port to one another's location. The AoE Whirlwind is toned down but can trigger the other to attack to output quite a bit of damage. Their crew's themed ability is a 2" push at the start of the turn, letting them break engagement or just get up the field faster.
Has damage dealing gone down all round? Have not read all the rules yet but as the Viks lost upgrades like the Mark I assume that models tend to stick around longer now? I tended to run them and their crew around combat strats and schemes and wondered if that was still going to work?
I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Has damage dealing gone down all round? Have not read all the rules yet but as the Viks lost upgrades like the Mark I assume that models tend to stick around longer now? I tended to run them and their crew around combat strats and schemes and wondered if that was still going to work?
Yeah, for the most part. You won't see major outliers like Howard getting 3 attacks at min 4 damage for example. The Viks Whirlwind is just a point of splash damage around instead of full damage. Also, charging in is in a place where you can charge farther by doing a walk then charge, but that costs you an attack so you can engage from farther away, but long range alpha strikes are less deadly. You have to be closer to get a 2 attack charge now.
That said, the Viks are still a murder ball. That's what they do and they're good at it. In no small part that's because all of the above makes it hard to alpha strike a model with a single model, which isn't really a problem the Viks have...
As a thank you to our fantastic Adepticon community, we decided to do something a little special this year. If you're headed to Adepticon but don't think you'll have time to make it into one of our events, don't worry! We've still got something up our sleeves. This year, we will have some new Malifaux Third Edition products available for pre-sale!
That's right. If you head over to our booth, you might just find yourself with a unique opportunity to get your hands on some brand new Malifaux Third Edition sculpts and cards! In order to have bragging rights over your friends, you'll just have to be the first in line, because there will be a limited supply*!
*Third Edition First Release Preview items will be in very short supply (we will only have 20 per SKU). Customers are limited to one Third Edition First Release Preview SKU per purchase. These orders will not include final packaging but will include sprues and Third Edition cards.
....
Malifaux Third Edition's Open Beta is done, so we're plugging away as fast as we can to get the new models, rules, and books in your hands (and if you haven't heard, that'll be early summer!).
The galaxy is littered with the single-planet graveyards of civilisations which made the economically sensible decision not to explore space.
Yeah the super fragile nature of some of them wasnt always great, but they all had great dynamic action poses that made them look like they were in the heat of battle and just had much more personality/character to them.... these imo are not the kind of sculpts that are going to draw new players into M3E.
I guess the other pertinent question is whether they're still being made by WGF,
as the other reason for a design change is a factory shift with the new lot being less experienced and so less able to handle 'dynamic' stuff & thin and spindly things
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