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It's a bit more difficult to get a warptime sorcerer into a DG army now, if you are willing to count "add two units of cultists" as hard.

POxwalkers are still good; you can regenerate ones that already die, they are fearless, have a ton of attacks. Just bring units of 20 instead of 10. They're just not "auto include" anymore for many people.

Really, Death Guard remains pretty darn good. Blightlords are a lot worse after the FAQ though, they really needed that warptime to get close enough.

 Jidmah wrote:
It's a bit more difficult to get a warptime sorcerer into a DG army now, if you are willing to count "add two units of cultists" as hard.

Can't you just use Faction Nurgle instead of Chaos within the same detachment? Isn't it exactly the same as using Chaos except you must have the sorc align to nurgle?

Huh. When I think about it, he also shares "Heretic Astartes" with the bloat drones in the Outrider detachment I usually field him in. Just ignore me.

3 PBCs is always a solid choice. People are forgetting how awesome Bloat Drones are. Yes, they're not top tier, but they're way more useful than a Hellbrute. Also Poxwalkers still remain a solid choice with Typhus, I'm actually glad they got rid of Poxwalker Farm. I had to face similar lists a few times. I won some and lost some, but it was really boring and stupidly hardcore when in hands of a skilled player

So with the FAQ changes, poxfarm is dead finally? And PBC spam is blocked. What seems to be the go to choices now? I hated both of those builds so I'm glad to see them go, and I hope there will be less mono-build stuff going on.

The deep strike rule doesn't really bother me, I very rarely did deep striking on the first turn. The soup "fix" I think didn't fix anything because it doesn't prevent taking multiple detachments with different factions and using Chaos/Imperium/etc. keywords to make the army Battleforged, but Chaos wouldn't be affected by an army-wide restriction since so many things have <Heretic Astartes> or just mono god.

Hopefully, this means some of our lesser used things will see more play, like Plague Marines themselves (tbh I hate seeing a "Death Guard" army with basically no plague marines), Blightlord Terminators, the Myphitic Blight-Haulers, etc.

Well, the Pox Farm might have just changed a bit.

Now, with Reinforcement Points being required, it's just another tool in the Toolbox. But at that point I'd just Summon in Plaguebearers instead anyway.

pox farm nerfed obvious change done.
Pbc (and gnerally spammy lists ) obviously fixed.
the issue that i did not see was the first round deep strike.

that ruined both blightlord termies and deathshroud termies.
there is no point having those units at all they loose all their usage. and let me explain. I totally agree giving armies a chance and not get first turn charged . Seems ok to me for some dakka armies and i endorse it but. Listen to this.

deathshroud was suppose to be guardians of Mortarion that is totally negated unless you are willing to hide 470 +180 points for 2 rounds most likely.

blightlords gg. totaly changed. Not only you wont be able to utilize the 18 range plasma no more at least not fast enough so there goes their mediocre punch but also wont be able to get the flies on round since you cant use cloud of flies the round they deeps strike. So all the good things about cloud of flies combo with deep strike etc is gone.
Yes death guard is still good but there are no more combinations to play lots of units.

termies again wasted points better of with obliterators etc that still got some synergy. why would you keep playing dg if poxw gotthe bat badly. when termies got the bat badly same for pbc.
sure viable but somewhat downgraded strategy wise.
sure 3 dp + 3 pbc + 3 drones remain a solid choise but... Demon army with obliteratora flamers etc more synergy. competitive wise .

I'm undecided on poxwalkers change, think they could probably drop down to 5ppm now without upsetting anyone and still make me feel better.

This might be a bit rules-lawyer or TFG, but... :

technically the FAQ refers to additional poxwalkers created by curse of the walking pox. the "Dead Walk Again" stratagem explicitly REPLACES CotWP, not the text of the ability itself... loophole?

 Commissar_Rex wrote:
I'm undecided on poxwalkers change, think they could probably drop down to 5ppm now without upsetting anyone and still make me feel better.

This might be a bit rules-lawyer or TFG, but... :

technically the FAQ refers to additional poxwalkers created by curse of the walking pox. the "Dead Walk Again" stratagem explicitly REPLACES CotWP, not the text of the ability itself... loophole?

I doubt it. Plus it just states above the starting model count... so why not just bring 20 and regenerate the ones that die off? Really they did need to patch it, getting 40 new poxwalkers for no reason was bogus.

I'm fine with the change. As it was I had to convince my opponents I didn't have to pay reinforcement points which they were always hesitant to believe. Saves me a discussion and an argument.

I've been using Pox Walkers as a bubble wrap and Deepstrike screen lately anyways, and I'm relieved I no longer have to carry around a whole box of those ugly Warhammer Fantasy Zombies for extra pox walkers.

Don't see a lot of buzz here on the new FAQ that allows the Nurgle Daemon prince to bring a spewer now.

Looks like a sword/spewer combo might be handy if anything to add decent overwatch

So I was thinking of running blightlords fully decked out (again... damn i love these models). If we assume 99% of people are going to be trying to pull a brigade or at least 3x battalions (I exaggerate but the CP hype train has arrived full force) - bringing a huge unit reduces the drop count...

Then if we have battalions in a soup setup - say for example surrounded by 30x plaguebearers rocking miasma and with a bilepiper in tow... you could even add to the invul on the plaguebearers during your opponents first shooting to bring them to a whopping - -2 to hit, 4++ 5+++ 4T unit that bolsters on morale rolls of 1 where you can roll 2 dice and consider rerolling one of them...

Proceed to place untargetable strat on blightlords for 3-4 turns at the cost of 1CP and profit - advance and rapid fire plasma for days with a value chaos lord? Even shining spears, dark reapers, tau gunline will probably have a hard time chewing through... Obviously if you go second there is some risk but you will hedge that most of the time you will go first b/c you limited your drops by taking a 600 point blightlord unit - and even if they do the blightlords are reasonably tanky (2+ 4++ 5T with a 5+++) - with no fear of deepstrikers the spacing on the plaguebearers can deny a shining spear charge etc. - all unit that shoot at them will have to be circa 18+ inches away??

I realize this has been done before but I guess with more CP it appears more attractive and potentially more abusable as you don't have to sacrifice all the CP from your army to preserve the blightlords - and also with deepstriking somewhat nerfed it can allow the blightlords to start on the field where you can pop the strat...

Edit: Although in retrospect any army that relies on strats is now not feasible due to dark eldar which will also likely be abused... Will still try it out for fun on the side and see but likely not that good overall qq

dark eldar's stratagem cancel isn't a huge concern for things like that IMO. if they want to trade 3CP to cancel a 1CP sratagem they deserve to fire on your terminators one turn.

I think the increased use of stratagems will be fun, and death guard have some fun uses for them

I've been thinking about getting on the gunline hype train, I put together a 2,000 point list with a pretty big screen.

3 hellbrute w/ missle launcher + las cannon
3 plagueburst crawlers w/entropy cannon + sluggers
1 hellforged leviathan dreadnought
30 cultist
37 poxwalker
typhus
necrosius
warpsmith
chaos lord

This will give me two battalions, I just need to figure out how to break out the detachments to optimize the hellbrutes, and dreadnaught. Since there is only 1 chaos lord I need to make the bet of the reroll's to 1's.

Has anyone tried to take this many heavy hitters ?

Wayniac wrote:
So with the FAQ changes, poxfarm is dead finally? And PBC spam is blocked. What seems to be the go to choices now? I hated both of those builds so I'm glad to see them go, and I hope there will be less mono-build stuff going on.

The deep strike rule doesn't really bother me, I very rarely did deep striking on the first turn. The soup "fix" I think didn't fix anything because it doesn't prevent taking multiple detachments with different factions and using Chaos/Imperium/etc. keywords to make the army Battleforged, but Chaos wouldn't be affected by an army-wide restriction since so many things have <Heretic Astartes> or just mono god.

Hopefully, this means some of our lesser used things will see more play, like Plague Marines themselves (tbh I hate seeing a "Death Guard" army with basically no plague marines), Blightlord Terminators, the Myphitic Blight-Haulers, etc.

I think Frankie from FLG still plays his 20man melee plague marine bomb, uses the everyone grenades+biologus synergy for infinite mortal wounds. I think he runs it behind morty and nurglings.

 Commissar_Rex wrote:
I'm undecided on poxwalkers change, think they could probably drop down to 5ppm now without upsetting anyone and still make me feel better.

This might be a bit rules-lawyer or TFG, but... :

technically the FAQ refers to additional poxwalkers created by curse of the walking pox. the "Dead Walk Again" stratagem explicitly REPLACES CotWP, not the text of the ability itself... loophole?

I think the main factor is it doesn't change the name, it replaces the text. It's still CotWP, but with different text. However, I feel nobody sane would argue that is how the rule is meant to be and try to say it doesn't affect it.

Personally I rarely DS'd my Blightlords the first turn anyway, so I don't see this change being as bad as everyone is saying. Deathshroud Terminators take a big hit though, which sucks because they are awesome models and really fluffy.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dew wrote:
Don't see a lot of buzz here on the new FAQ that allows the Nurgle Daemon prince to bring a spewer now.

Looks like a sword/spewer combo might be handy if anything to add decent overwatch

By the wording, doesn't the spewer replace all of his weapons? It's a little vague.

A bit off Topic, but I figured the DG players here would know:

Just picked up Mortarion, but havent glued his Wings or Scythe on yet. Will Mortarion fit inide a standard (Sabol sized) pluck Foam? Dry fitting, it seems to fit, but anyone have confirmation?

Wayniac wrote:

 Commissar_Rex wrote:
I'm undecided on poxwalkers change, think they could probably drop down to 5ppm now without upsetting anyone and still make me feel better.

This might be a bit rules-lawyer or TFG, but... :

technically the FAQ refers to additional poxwalkers created by curse of the walking pox. the "Dead Walk Again" stratagem explicitly REPLACES CotWP, not the text of the ability itself... loophole?

I think the main factor is it doesn't change the name, it replaces the text. It's still CotWP, but with different text. However, I feel nobody sane would argue that is how the rule is meant to be and try to say it doesn't affect it.

Personally I rarely DS'd my Blightlords the first turn anyway, so I don't see this change being as bad as everyone is saying. Deathshroud Terminators take a big hit though, which sucks because they are awesome models and really fluffy.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dew wrote:
Don't see a lot of buzz here on the new FAQ that allows the Nurgle Daemon prince to bring a spewer now.

Looks like a sword/spewer combo might be handy if anything to add decent overwatch

By the wording, doesn't the spewer replace all of his weapons? It's a little vague.

Yeah the wording on the spewer is confusing. I'm not sure if its additional, or what it replaces. If we can take a spewer on top of our normal weapons... I'm so gonna pick one for every prince!

 Zid wrote:

Wayniac wrote:

 Commissar_Rex wrote:
I'm undecided on poxwalkers change, think they could probably drop down to 5ppm now without upsetting anyone and still make me feel better.

This might be a bit rules-lawyer or TFG, but... :

technically the FAQ refers to additional poxwalkers created by curse of the walking pox. the "Dead Walk Again" stratagem explicitly REPLACES CotWP, not the text of the ability itself... loophole?

I think the main factor is it doesn't change the name, it replaces the text. It's still CotWP, but with different text. However, I feel nobody sane would argue that is how the rule is meant to be and try to say it doesn't affect it.

Personally I rarely DS'd my Blightlords the first turn anyway, so I don't see this change being as bad as everyone is saying. Deathshroud Terminators take a big hit though, which sucks because they are awesome models and really fluffy.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dew wrote:
Don't see a lot of buzz here on the new FAQ that allows the Nurgle Daemon prince to bring a spewer now.

Looks like a sword/spewer combo might be handy if anything to add decent overwatch

By the wording, doesn't the spewer replace all of his weapons? It's a little vague.

Yeah the wording on the spewer is confusing. I'm not sure if its additional, or what it replaces. If we can take a spewer on top of our normal weapons... I'm so gonna pick one for every prince!

If you keep the Sword, you get the Spewer, if you want to take something else, you cannot have a Spewer. I see this as an answer to the Sword being the worst weapon when all of them cost the same. The Finecast Nurgle Demon Prince model actually has the weapon on his left arm currently. Look at the the bug's mouth.

I understood it as either Talon+Spewer or 2 Talons

 mokoshkana wrote:

 Zid wrote:

Wayniac wrote:

 Commissar_Rex wrote:
I'm undecided on poxwalkers change, think they could probably drop down to 5ppm now without upsetting anyone and still make me feel better.

This might be a bit rules-lawyer or TFG, but... :

technically the FAQ refers to additional poxwalkers created by curse of the walking pox. the "Dead Walk Again" stratagem explicitly REPLACES CotWP, not the text of the ability itself... loophole?

I think the main factor is it doesn't change the name, it replaces the text. It's still CotWP, but with different text. However, I feel nobody sane would argue that is how the rule is meant to be and try to say it doesn't affect it.

Personally I rarely DS'd my Blightlords the first turn anyway, so I don't see this change being as bad as everyone is saying. Deathshroud Terminators take a big hit though, which sucks because they are awesome models and really fluffy.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dew wrote:
Don't see a lot of buzz here on the new FAQ that allows the Nurgle Daemon prince to bring a spewer now.

Looks like a sword/spewer combo might be handy if anything to add decent overwatch

By the wording, doesn't the spewer replace all of his weapons? It's a little vague.

Yeah the wording on the spewer is confusing. I'm not sure if its additional, or what it replaces. If we can take a spewer on top of our normal weapons... I'm so gonna pick one for every prince!

If you keep the Sword, you get the Spewer, if you want to take something else, you cannot have a Spewer. I see this as an answer to the Sword being the worst weapon when all of them cost the same. The Finecast Nurgle Demon Prince model actually has the weapon on his left arm currently. Look at the the bug's mouth.

Spoiler:

I mean, I wouldn't argue for it in a friendly game I was just kind of wondering (I swear! ). Technically the strat says it replaces CotWP (not the ability text, which would have meant cotwp remains the name of the new ability) with the following :"...". Of course they wouldn't make a 1CP stratagem capable of creating models that now cost points... Although "Daemonic Incursion" is close to as asinine- why do daemons have a hard counter to GKs? never made sense to me. anyway...

I think the DP plague spewer might be in addition to the other gear, as the faq doesn't say it needs to replace anything? To play devil's advocate, it might be a replacement for the sword like all of the other options. I see your DG DP (which... is a bit of a stretch that that bug is a plague spewer) and raise you a FW daemon prince of nurgle shown with spewer and talons

I used the blightlord tact before faq extensively. 9-10 blightlords deep strike behind nurglins early games then behind alpha strike cultists then warped time black legion cultists. Now there is a big issue.

1)470 points for a maybe rapid fire plasma is not superb
2) second round drop again means you won't auto charge and start cc tigh units etc. It's still an 18 inc shooting.
3) the deal was to give cultists or poxwalkers lists a punch. If you start use them 2-3rd round the cost is prohibiting.
4) cloud of flies cannot be used on blightlord termies when they deep strike since you can read the faq saying. Stratagems valid during movement phase can't be done when a unit deep strike since they are dp at end of phase. Double checked!

So I won't invest 500+ points for a maybe 3-4 round form of immunity. You are better off with Marines blight launchers transports and more grenade fluff Marines.

We need a better plan!

Faq wise I see many armies playable faction wise. What would be the problem with an army full of p marines and transports + grenades. 3dp 3 pbc Morty. Atm seems valid and good to me. You can even go extreme with demons and summon. Worked for me.

Question can a tree be summoned from a dp? Can we even summon a tree to bypass the fort. Detachment?

Crastok wrote:I've been thinking about getting on the gunline hype train, I put together a 2,000 point list with a pretty big screen.

3 hellbrute w/ missle launcher + las cannon
3 plagueburst crawlers w/entropy cannon + sluggers
1 hellforged leviathan dreadnought
30 cultist
37 poxwalker
typhus
necrosius
warpsmith
chaos lord

This will give me two battalions, I just need to figure out how to break out the detachments to optimize the hellbrutes, and dreadnaught. Since there is only 1 chaos lord I need to make the bet of the reroll's to 1's.

Has anyone tried to take this many heavy hitters ?

Why not a Myphitic Blight-hauler trilobe instead of the helbrutes? Nice cover aura for your walking friends (poxwalkers will actually get an armor save!), and it'll cut down the # of HS drops too. Plus they're tough and fast

Yoda79 wrote:I used the blightlord tact before faq extensively. 9-10 blightlords deep strike behind nurglins early games then behind alpha strike cultists then warped time black legion cultists. Now there is a big issue.

1)470 points for a maybe rapid fire plasma is not superb
2) second round drop again means you won't auto charge and start cc tigh units etc. It's still an 18 inc shooting.
3) the deal was to give cultists or poxwalkers lists a punch. If you start use them 2-3rd round the cost is prohibiting.
4) cloud of flies cannot be used on blightlord termies when they deep strike since you can read the faq saying. Stratagems valid during movement phase can't be done when a unit deep strike since they are dp at end of phase. Double checked!

So I won't invest 500+ points for a maybe 3-4 round form of immunity. You are better off with Marines blight launchers transports and more grenade fluff Marines.

We need a better plan!

Faq wise I see many armies playable faction wise. What would be the problem with an army full of p marines and transports + grenades. 3dp 3 pbc Morty. Atm seems valid and good to me. You can even go extreme with demons and summon. Worked for me.

Question can a tree be summoned from a dp? Can we even summon a tree to bypass the fort. Detachment?

I think we'll see people shifting toward more survivable units, especially if you want to deepstrike something. I think the list you mentioned is good fun and strong enough. Probably won't win a big tournament, because Morty is the benchmark for damage output in a single turn, but you'll have no problem being competitive enough for your friends

no way to bypass the fortification detachment requirement. They don't have the "Daemonic Ritual" rule, and even horticulous slimux requires you to have a tree in your army before you can go planting them for reserve points.

 Commissar_Rex wrote:


I think the DP plague spewer might be in addition to the other gear, as the faq doesn't say it needs to replace anything? To play devil's advocate, it might be a replacement for the sword like all of the other options. I see your DG DP (which... is a bit of a stretch that that bug is a plague spewer) and raise you a FW daemon prince of nurgle shown with spewer and talons

The prince comes equipped with a sword and claw as a default. You have two options:
a) take a plague spewer.
b) replace sword with second claw or axe.

It's crappy wording but kind of makes sense considering the current direction of reducing options from models. The official model has sword and some kind of flamer contraption, so he doesn't get any other options. The same deal with primaris marines or the new DG characters who come equipped with the stock gear and zero options.

The Forge world Daemon prince is Mammon transfigured and the model matches with the rules in Imperial armory.

 Commissar_Rex wrote:

no way to bypass the fortification detachment requirement. They don't have the "Daemonic Ritual" rule, and even horticulous slimux requires you to have a tree in your army before you can go planting them for reserve points.

...no he doesn't . Horticulous is the only way to get trees without a fortification detachment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If you're reading it how I think your reading it, that's not it.
He makes adds a Feculant Gnarlmaw (the unit) to your army. This unit can only contain one Feculant Gnarlmaw (the model).
The unit can normally have up to 3.

 Commissar_Rex wrote:

I think the DP plague spewer might be in addition to the other gear, as the faq doesn't say it needs to replace anything? To play devil's advocate, it might be a replacement for the sword like all of the other options. I see your DG DP (which... is a bit of a stretch that that bug is a plague spewer) and raise you a FW daemon prince of nurgle shown with spewer and talons

Spoiler:

Honestly, that FW model is kind of out in left field now. As there is no option to get a Talon and a ranged weapon (unless you take the warp bolter option from the index while it lasts). I'd say that the FW version is the better of the two Nurgle options to mod for the dual talons though. One could easily turn that gun into a second group of spikey claws.

Wayniac wrote:
So with the FAQ changes, poxfarm is dead finally? And PBC spam is blocked. What seems to be the go to choices now? I hated both of those builds so I'm glad to see them go, and I hope there will be less mono-build stuff going on.

The deep strike rule doesn't really bother me, I very rarely did deep striking on the first turn. The soup "fix" I think didn't fix anything because it doesn't prevent taking multiple detachments with different factions and using Chaos/Imperium/etc. keywords to make the army Battleforged, but Chaos wouldn't be affected by an army-wide restriction since so many things have <Heretic Astartes> or just mono god.

Hopefully, this means some of our lesser used things will see more play, like Plague Marines themselves (tbh I hate seeing a "Death Guard" army with basically no plague marines), Blightlord Terminators, the Myphitic Blight-Haulers, etc.

As I primarily used my Blightlords as a first-turn distraction Carnifex for Mortarion (load up with plasma and deepstrike them, your opponent now has to deal with them or take a lot of damage each turn, shifting attention away from Morty) they're pretty much dead to me. Additional problem is that I really don't see any way to get Mortarion into CC in more or less one piece in a pure DG army when facing a gunline because as far as I know we literally have nothing that can both deal good damage and can get in the opponents' face turn 1 now that you can't deepstrike turn 1 anymore. Leaving Mortarion to face-tank everything your opponent can throw at him for at least 1 turn (2 if you get second turn, in which case you're pretty much guaranteed he won't do anything at all).

edit: Came up with something silly: deploy a Land Raider and 3 Deathshroud next to Morty, then when Mortarion gets to move load up your Deathshroud in the LR and race along with Mortarion so they can join him again when he reaches CC. At least that way they can eat most of the fire coming Mortarions' way if I get second turn and have a chance to be useful later in the game (LR will probably make it's delivery just fine because all incoming fire goes to Mortarion). Pity it costs about 1k points for the complete package but hey, gotta think of something right

 mokoshkana wrote:

 Commissar_Rex wrote:

I think the DP plague spewer might be in addition to the other gear, as the faq doesn't say it needs to replace anything? To play devil's advocate, it might be a replacement for the sword like all of the other options. I see your DG DP (which... is a bit of a stretch that that bug is a plague spewer) and raise you a FW daemon prince of nurgle shown with spewer and talons

Spoiler:

Honestly, that FW model is kind of out in left field now. As there is no option to get a Talon and a ranged weapon (unless you take the warp bolter option from the index while it lasts). I'd say that the FW version is the better of the two Nurgle options to mod for the dual talons though. One could easily turn that gun into a second group of spikey claws.

So I may be a little thick but based upon the wording in the FAQ is it clear whether the spewer replaces the sword or the talons?

Page 70
– Daemon Prince of Nurgle, Wargear Options
Change the first bullet point to read:
‘• This model may either take a plague spewer, or it may
replace its hellforged sword with a daemonic axe or a
second set of malefic talons

And the spewer costs 19 points? So it would be coming at a 9 point premium over the other options?

It is clear - the model comes default with a sword and talon - it then may either TAKE a spewer or it may REPLACE. "Take" is ambiguous (regarding wether or not it means "in addition to" or "instead of"), until the word "replace" is used, which makes the meaning clear.