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 tpogs wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
Oh and my crimson fists got nominated as one of the best painted armies, which was nice.

Pics.

I don't have many - there's never time during the games. You can see Warhammer World's pics on Facebook though. There are pics of all the 6 armies that were nominated and my Crimson Fists are the first ones after the pictures of the winner (and they are the only crimson fists, obviously!). There are a couple more pics of my captain, repulsor and centurions later on in the album too.

Mandragola wrote:

 tpogs wrote:

Mandragola wrote:
Oh and my crimson fists got nominated as one of the best painted armies, which was nice.

Pics.

I don't have many - there's never time during the games. You can see Warhammer World's pics on Facebook though. There are pics of all the 6 armies that were nominated and my Crimson Fists are the first ones after the pictures of the winner (and they are the only crimson fists, obviously!). There are a couple more pics of my captain, repulsor and centurions later on in the album too.

Very nice looking

Playing more games I feel Ven Dreads really hit a sweet spot compared to Predators and base Dreads. It lacks wounds and movement compared to a battle tank but benefits from higher BS, some combat prowess, FNP helping to bridge the wounds gap, and most importantly Chapter Tactics. I really like the Pred model but I’m drawn to Ven Dreads for their versatility and cool models.

Bremon wrote:
Playing more games I feel Ven Dreads really hit a sweet spot compared to Predators and base Dreads. It lacks wounds and movement compared to a battle tank but benefits from higher BS, some combat prowess, FNP helping to bridge the wounds gap, and most importantly Chapter Tactics. I really like the Pred model but I’m drawn to Ven Dreads for their versatility and cool models.

Similar view for me, I am considering 3 Contemptor Dreadnoughts instead of Razorback spam to run around Guiliman. Although it scarificed some firepower, it looks much more threathening in combat than Razorback, and can pull out of tarpit than shoot, unlike Razorbacks --- got tarpit = silenced for whole game.

Neophyte2012 wrote:

Bremon wrote:
Playing more games I feel Ven Dreads really hit a sweet spot compared to Predators and base Dreads. It lacks wounds and movement compared to a battle tank but benefits from higher BS, some combat prowess, FNP helping to bridge the wounds gap, and most importantly Chapter Tactics. I really like the Pred model but I’m drawn to Ven Dreads for their versatility and cool models.

Similar view for me, I am considering 3 Contemptor Dreadnoughts instead of Razorback spam to run around Guiliman. Although it scarificed some firepower, it looks much more threathening in combat than Razorback, and can pull out of tarpit than shoot, unlike Razorbacks --- got tarpit = silenced for whole game.

True, though you really don't need Guilliman for contemptors to work. Salamander ones in particular are fine without any buffs.

This is probably the wrong thread for this but does Deathwatch have any interesting units atm?

Agreed Mandragola, upon initial reveal I didn’t think too highly of the Salamanders’ Chapter Tactic, but it’s likely tied with RG as the best in the codex. In a meta that requires extensive anti-tank and a faction that loathes paying its troop tax, I would say the Salamanders’ Tacticals with a lascannon or plasma gun are the only Tac marines that are worth much of anything. A Battalion with 3 lascannons for troops that have a built in Guilliman buff are about as much as we can strive for imo.

I believe they have the cheapest Chapter Master buff in the Watch Master, Corvus Blackstars are mini Stormravens, and a pod with two five man squads with 8 Frag Cannons and two Combi-plas might be the hardest hitting thing you can put in a pod (20 wounds on a Baneblade WITHOUT any rerolls), but is hideously expensive.

Apart from that, nothing has really caught my eye as compared to the marine dex.

Bremon wrote:
Agreed Mandragola, upon initial reveal I didn’t think too highly of the Salamanders’ Chapter Tactic, but it’s likely tied with RG as the best in the codex. In a meta that requires extensive anti-tank and a faction that loathes paying its troop tax, I would say the Salamanders’ Tacticals with a lascannon or plasma gun are the only Tac marines that are worth much of anything. A Battalion with 3 lascannons for troops that have a built in Guilliman buff are about as much as we can strive for imo.

True, though salamanders are hampered somewhat by their awful stratagem (as flamers aren’t much use anyway).

I maintain that people who hate marine troops haven’t used intercessors - or at least haven’t used much. They are very capable. And you should probably always take a unit of scouts to snipe stuff and/or screen.

Intercessors are terrible. Try again.

Intercessors are the only troop I’ve used thus far this edition. My opponents have wised up and they are now 20 point tac marines with no special weapons.

Holding the Salamanders chapter tactic against them doesn’t hold much weight as an argument, as most of the chapter specific ones aren’t too hot. Black Templars is especially mediocre considering that’s their answer to “deny the witch”.

Bremon wrote:
Black Templars is especially mediocre considering that’s their answer to “deny the witch”.

I disagree completely. It is statistically superior to DTW for critical abilities such as Warptime on Magnus, who is a chaos mainstay.

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

Bremon wrote:
Black Templars is especially mediocre considering that’s their answer to “deny the witch”.

I disagree completely. It is statistically superior to DTW for critical abilities such as Warptime on Magnus, who is a chaos mainstay.

Plus in all honestly having the ability to drop in and charge is pretty clutch if you need to stop Conscripts from firing at you in mass amounts. It's almost a 50% chance. So basically if you drop in 4 units of Vanguard or Assault Marines, odds are that 2 of them make the charge most of the time. Also helps with Scouts as well. That said, everyone is about shooting is the issue.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

Bremon wrote:
Black Templars is especially mediocre considering that’s their answer to “deny the witch”.

I disagree completely. It is statistically superior to DTW for critical abilities such as Warptime on Magnus, who is a chaos mainstay.

Plus in all honestly having the ability to drop in and charge is pretty clutch if you need to stop Conscripts from firing at you in mass amounts. It's almost a 50% chance. So basically if you drop in 4 units of Vanguard or Assault Marines, odds are that 2 of them make the charge most of the time. Also helps with Scouts as well. That said, everyone is about shooting is the issue.

Agreed. RG and UM are definitely the best chapters atm, but I think BT overall are third. even if Sallys have a really strong CT, their strat and relic are much weaker, imo.

I'm surprised White Scars spamming assault/vanguard vets aren't more common.

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

Bremon wrote:
Black Templars is especially mediocre considering that’s their answer to “deny the witch”.

I disagree completely. It is statistically superior to DTW for critical abilities such as Warptime on Magnus, who is a chaos mainstay.

Am I missing something, or do BT not run out of DTW as soon as they run out of CP, and, by denying, neuter things like their ability to reroll damage on a mediocre damage roll, etc.? Different approaches I suppose. BT seem quite good though, overall, a nice balance of CT, warlord trait, relic, etc. Their anti-psyker ability in a meta of smite spam is a bit underwhelming to say the least.

Bremon wrote:

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

Bremon wrote:
Black Templars is especially mediocre considering that’s their answer to “deny the witch”.

I disagree completely. It is statistically superior to DTW for critical abilities such as Warptime on Magnus, who is a chaos mainstay.

Am I missing something, or do BT not run out of DTW as soon as they run out of CP, and, by denying, neuter things like their ability to reroll damage on a mediocre damage roll, etc.? Different approaches I suppose. BT seem quite good though, overall, a nice balance of CT, warlord trait, relic, etc. Their anti-psyker ability in a meta of smite spam is a bit underwhelming to say the least.

I never said it was good for stopping smite spam, in fact I said earlier that was a major weakness. However, SM in general have a weakness to smite spam. What BT do have that no one else does is the highest % to stop key psychic abilities. DTW is basically 50% chance if you have a libby within 12, and less for anyone else. Far less when dealing with Magnus. How many librarians are you running in your list? Because if you don't have two librarians, you have exactly the same number of deny attempts as the BT player.

Really the only answer to smite spam, is smite spam. Which you can do with an AM detachment besides BT and get the best of both worlds.

As for CP - Because of the BT relic helm you can take a CM and get a mini Guilleman for 1/3 the cost, opening up the ability to take a brigade. With 9 CP, I have enough CP to deny (with chance for reroll) and use killshot for 3 turns. I don't generally use CP for much other than that.

I like the salamanders relic personally, it may not be the best but it's not bad. Putting a T4 to T5 can be very useful, as can getting a T6 to T7 (bike + mantle + might of hero's = one tough biker charecter).

I won't argue it's the best, far from it, but it's definitely not bad and when you add salamander chapter tactic to the list and focus on that suddenly salamanders are super sweet. My normal salamander army is composed of 6 tactical squads, 5 man / 1 with heavy weapon, 2 assault cannon dreadnoughts, 1 venerable dread (typically double laz but sometimes plasma cannon), captain on bike with mantel, and librarian on bike with MOH and psychic Ward (the one that gives a 4+ save vs mortal wounds, a waste to cast until that time when it saves your bacon). From there it's a case of "what do I want to play with" because that starting force is only 66pl / 1338 pts, leaving enough room to customize from there.

And with all those heavy weapons spread out like that they will hit and wound almost all the time thanks to tactic, even when moving. That leaves my captain with the freedom to do something stupid like charge a hive tyrant or carnifex with the lib close by and I know he can take the hits.

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

Bremon wrote:
Black Templars is especially mediocre considering that’s their answer to “deny the witch”.

I disagree completely. It is statistically superior to DTW for critical abilities such as Warptime on Magnus, who is a chaos mainstay.

Plus in all honestly having the ability to drop in and charge is pretty clutch if you need to stop Conscripts from firing at you in mass amounts. It's almost a 50% chance. So basically if you drop in 4 units of Vanguard or Assault Marines, odds are that 2 of them make the charge most of the time. Also helps with Scouts as well. That said, everyone is about shooting is the issue.

Agreed. RG and UM are definitely the best chapters atm, but I think BT overall are third. even if Sallys have a really strong CT, their strat and relic are much weaker, imo.

I'm surprised White Scars spamming assault/vanguard vets aren't more common.

Honestly I think that all the traits are solid besides Imperial Fists (which is dependant on terrain), and in last place is Iron Hands, who in fairness get a solid relic but that doesn't make up for a lame trait and super bad Strategem.

New topic-

3 bikers with 2 flamers and combi-flamer

Can move+advance 20" and get 3d6 hits on a unit another 8" back

If they don't advance, they can fire 12 boltgun shots at BS 3+, 2 at BS4+, and 3d6 flamer hits.

6 T5 wounds. 110 pts. Thoughts?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Traceoftoxin wrote:

Bremon wrote:
Black Templars is especially mediocre considering that’s their answer to “deny the witch”.

I disagree completely. It is statistically superior to DTW for critical abilities such as Warptime on Magnus, who is a chaos mainstay.

Plus in all honestly having the ability to drop in and charge is pretty clutch if you need to stop Conscripts from firing at you in mass amounts. It's almost a 50% chance. So basically if you drop in 4 units of Vanguard or Assault Marines, odds are that 2 of them make the charge most of the time. Also helps with Scouts as well. That said, everyone is about shooting is the issue.

Agreed. RG and UM are definitely the best chapters atm, but I think BT overall are third. even if Sallys have a really strong CT, their strat and relic are much weaker, imo.

I'm surprised White Scars spamming assault/vanguard vets aren't more common.

Honestly I think that all the traits are solid besides Imperial Fists (which is dependant on terrain), and in last place is Iron Hands, who in fairness get a solid relic but that doesn't make up for a lame trait and super bad Strategem.

As a Crimson Fist player I think our relatively weak CT and totally useless stratagem is balanced somewhat by having a very good relic weapon and a decent (if somewhat overpriced, in my view) chapter master, who we can have without paying CTs.

It may also be that the reason I like my intercessors is because the imperial fist CT actually does work for them. If my intercessors are in cover shooting vs other people's troops, I win. Sniper scouts, who would get a 2+ save vs most small arms fire, get only a 5+ save against my dudes. Ratlings are gone on a 2+ to wound, with no save. I can typically rely on the intercessors to strip away other people's scoring units over the course of the game, while my other stuff deals with urgent threats.

 Traceoftoxin wrote:
New topic-

3 bikers with 2 flamers and combi-flamer

Can move+advance 20" and get 3d6 hits on a unit another 8" back

If they don't advance, they can fire 12 boltgun shots at BS 3+, 2 at BS4+, and 3d6 flamer hits.

6 T5 wounds. 110 pts. Thoughts?

Bikes are very good and their only downside is they fail to take advantage of the auras that are the lifeblood of 8th edition marines unless you are running a full bike force. Although, I suspect some armies that utilize a drop in strategy utilize bikers much more efficiently.

Also scout bikers are great for, like, the first time ever.

stratigo wrote:

6 T5 wounds. 110 pts. Thoughts?

Bikes are very good and their only downside is they fail to take advantage of the auras that are the lifeblood of 8th edition marines unless you are running a full bike force. Although, I suspect some armies that utilize a drop in strategy utilize bikers much more efficiently.

Also scout bikers are great for, like, the first time ever.

Is there any good reason to taking a 4x Lascannon Predator over two Twin-lascannon Razorbacks? You are paying roughly 40 more points, but you get 10 more wounds and an extra Stormbolter/HK. Not to mention damaging one Razorback won't affect the stats of the other.

 bobsmith7777 wrote:
Is there any good reason to taking a 4x Lascannon Predator over two Twin-lascannon Razorbacks? You are paying roughly 40 more points, but you get 10 more wounds and an extra Stormbolter/HK. Not to mention damaging one Razorback won't affect the stats of the other.

Slots for detachments more models to buy.

3 pred combo stratagem is cool.

 bobsmith7777 wrote:
Is there any good reason to taking a 4x Lascannon Predator over two Twin-lascannon Razorbacks? You are paying roughly 40 more points, but you get 10 more wounds and an extra Stormbolter/HK. Not to mention damaging one Razorback won't affect the stats of the other.

Killshot is a game changer.

On that note, how do people tipically play killshot? Do you increase the damage of heavy bolters and autocannons or only on the lascannons?

Spoletta wrote:
On that note, how do people tipically play killshot? Do you increase the damage of heavy bolters and autocannons or only on the lascannons?

Looking at my codex:

"Use this Stratagem in your Shooting phase if a Predator is within 6" of two other friendly <Chapter> Predators. If you do so, you can add 1 to the wound rolls and damage for all of the Predators’ attacks that target Monsters or Vehicles this phase."

So it seems everything that's on the Pred (storm bolter, sponson weapons, HK missile, and main gun) would be buffed.

The BT DTW strat is actually pretty solid. The way I read it you can activate it off any BT unit, so you basically have DTW so long as you have the CP to spare. Pretty handy, but I agree it's not going to be very effective against smite spam.


One note about Dreads. Have not played my Ven Dread yet, but I am a huge fan of my Ironclad! Equipped him with a Hurricane, SB, Chainfist, and Assault Launchers. That bad boy will put out some damage for only 137 points, and has nuked entire squads in one turn if the opponent isn't careful.

 bobsmith7777 wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
On that note, how do people tipically play killshot? Do you increase the damage of heavy bolters and autocannons or only on the lascannons?

Looking at my codex:

"Use this Stratagem in your Shooting phase if a Predator is within 6" of two other friendly <Chapter> Predators. If you do so, you can add 1 to the wound rolls and damage for all of the Predators’ attacks that target Monsters or Vehicles this phase."

So it seems everything that's on the Pred (storm bolter, sponson weapons, HK missile, and main gun) would be buffed.

Cool, i remembered that it affected damage ROLLS, which meant only lascannons.

 Karthicus wrote:
The BT DTW strat is actually pretty solid. The way I read it you can activate it off any BT unit, so you basically have DTW so long as you have the CP to spare. Pretty handy, but I agree it's not going to be very effective against smite spam.


One note about Dreads. Have not played my Ven Dread yet, but I am a huge fan of my Ironclad! Equipped him with a Hurricane, SB, Chainfist, and Assault Launchers. That bad boy will put out some damage for only 137 points, and has nuked entire squads in one turn if the opponent isn't careful.

I’ll admit you guys are opening my eyes to the BT possibilities. This thread has been quite valuable so far!
On the subject of Ironclads...I’ve been running a pair in small games and it has been fun. The T8, assault launchers, and 4D are all unexpected surprises, and we’ve taken to playing Maelstrom. That leads to the enemy needing to come to the middle of the table and has lead to fun times. Last night we had 2 ironclads vs a Daemon Prince and 2 lawnmower drones. Noxious explosions were had lol.