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My interpretation of the IG doctrine close order drill seems to be different from every one else’s . 

 

Close order drill rule: “While in close order, all models in the unit has + 1 leadership and + 1 initiative.  Note that the leadership bonus only applies when the unit’s own leadership is used.”

 

My interpretation:

 

If a command squad is in close order drill, then it has + 1 leadership.  Any unit within 12” may use the command squads leadership to test with.  However if the squad using the command squads leadership is in close order drill, they would not benefit from a + 1 leadership bonus for being in close order drill themselves since they are not using their leadership.

 

Example: Squad a is in close order drill and squad b is not. Command squad a has a JO and is in close order drill.  Squad a chooses to use Command squad A’s leadership which is 9, they do not get a +1 bonus for being in close order drill themselves (so they are not testing at ld 10).  Squad B uses command squad A’s leadership which is 9, they do not get a +1 bonus anyways since they are not in close order drill.

 

Is my interpretation correct?  If not how is it flawed?

Your interpretation appears correct.

The Command Squad is in COD therefore it does receive a bonus for LD. Squads A and B would then use the new LD of 9. Neither unit A nor B would receive a second bonus of +1 since they decided to use the Command Squads' LD value, regardless of either Unit A or B being in COD.

So basically no double (or more) stacking LD bonuses through multiple units of COD.

 

Read the CoD rules. It may only be used by basic Infantry platoon squads and Conscript Platoon squads.

Command squads cannot benefit from CoD.

Yak,

While I assume your take on the matter is what it was they thought they wrote. C.O.D. reads "This drill is only used by units in a standard infantry platoons and conscript infantry platoons." This wording includes the J.O. attached to each infantry. Since the Leadership rule says "...may use his leadership.." and in C.O.D. the J.O. gets +1 leadership, wouldn't his leadership bubble be at LD9?

It would seem that they do share their bonus LD.

Posted By Datajax on 07/09/2007 7:32 PM
Yak,

While I assume your take on the matter is what it was they thought they wrote. C.O.D. reads "This drill is only used by units in a standard infantry platoons and conscript infantry platoons." This wording includes the J.O. attached to each infantry. Since the Leadership rule says "...may use his leadership.." and in C.O.D. the J.O. gets +1 leadership, wouldn't his leadership bubble be at LD9?

My apologies, I read the CoD rule too quickly and made an incorrect assumption. You are most certainly correct that CoD does apply to command squads in standard infantry platoons.

I do, however, have to disagree that the Officer can pass the CoD bonus to other units via the 'Leadership' special rule. This is because of the very specific exemption listed in the CoD rule:

"Note that the leadership bonus only applies when the unit’s own leadership is used.”

This means that unlike the +1 Initiative bonus, the +1 Leadership bonus only applies when the unit's own Leadership is used. At all other times in the game (whenever the unit is not "using" it's own Leadership) the unit does not count as having +1 Leadership.

So unless we can unequivocably prove that the Command squad is somehow "using it's own Leadership" when the Officer's Ld vaule is being used by another squad via the 'Leadership' special rule, we must assume that the Command Squad is not currently benefiting from the +1 Ld bonus and therefore cannot pass it on to any other units.

 

 

Oooo interesting. The bonus to Ld can only be used when using the unit's own Ld.

Now when in the case of Unit A using the Ld value of a JO who's in COD it can be argued both ways.

The Bonus cannot be used since it is not using it's own Ld value,

BUT

the bonus is being applied to the Command Unit which does benefit from it as they are in COD.

Taking the stance of Pro-use of boosted JO's Ld value I'll say the following.
Since Unit A is not in COD it is not receiving the LD bonus. Also it may use the boosted Ld value of the JO since it is using the Command Squad's own (or it's own) Ld value. ie. the Ld being boosted is that of the Command Squad, the Command Squad is using "it's own" Ld value therefore not violating the rule. It is not saying that the Ld value is only used during a units' own Ld based TEST.

The bonus say "when using it's own Ld".. in this case it is using it's own Ld value but it is being used through the Leadership rule.

P1 Command squad is in COD, boosting it's Ld and Int stats. This include the JO with Leadership
P2 Unit A can use the JO's Leadership rule.

C1 Unit A uses the boosted Ld stat of the JO through Leadership since the JO is using "it's own Ld" for the test..

The key part for me was the exact wording.

I broke the rule down into two parts.

1: While in close order, all models in the unit has + 1 leadership and + 1 initiative. 
This means that all models HAVE +1 leadership and + 1 initiative (it doesn't say they will get that when using their own leadership)

2: Note that the leadership bonus only applies when the unit’s own leadership is used.
This means that any unit not using its own leadership does not get a +1 bonus for being in close order drill.  The key to understanding the point of this rule is to look at the word choice critically.  In rule part one they said all units have +1 leadership, and in rule part two it is referring to a leadership bonus.  A bonus is in addition to what you already have, so I have always presumed that this meant: you can not stack leadership bonus' by putting your squad in C.O.D. and then using the command squads leadership.

Posted By DaIronGob on 07/10/2007 6:44 AM


P1 Command squad is in COD, boosting it's Ld and Int stats. This include the JO with Leadership
P2 Unit A can use the JO's Leadership rule.

C1 Unit A uses the boosted Ld stat of the JO through Leadership since the JO is using "it's own Ld" for the test..

Premise one is false because CoD does not arbitrarily boost a unit's Leadership. Only when the unit is using its own Leadership do they gain +1 Leadership.

So again, unless someone can somehow prove that a second squad using an Officer's Leadership value means that the Command Squad is '[using]' its own Leadership your argument doesn't hold up.

 

 

If a command squad is conferring its leadership to a nearby squad via the Leadership rule, could it not be said that it is "using its own leadership" for something? I don't believe it is ever specified what counts as "using", so it seems to me that we need to use the everyday understanding of the word.

I would allow it if an IG player wanted to do this, but it's muddy enough that I wouldn't use it myself (not that I'd ever play IG).

I tend to concur with Yak. The command squad isn't using its own LD. The other unit is. The other unit is the one acting; taking the check is using the LD.

I believe that this is one for the Yakfaq. If I may be so bold as to ask Yak to do so?

IMO as it is written it can be supported, in either argument, by the wording.

Yak and mannahin make perfect sense BUT so does tegius and epidemicHeart.

The Command Squad is using it's own leadership... the rule never really clarifies WHAT it can use it for nor does it define a specific target for it's own Ld. The Command Squad is using it's own Ld when using the leadership rule. Also by the same phrase it is NOT using it's own Ld since the Command Squad is NOT taking the test... but again there is no distinct defintion of HOW "it's own" applies.

Yea?

My official stance is I would not argue if my opponent wished to do this, but I probably would not use it. ( I don't play guard, don't plan to either)