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Orlanth wrote:Ok, to help encourage people to keep to the boycott I suggest every participant amends their siggie to show how little of their money has gone to Gw this current year, and where else the hobby money is going.

I am committed to minimising GW spending, which is fairer than promising a 0.0 purchase rate all year. I am ammending my siggie presently....

Great idea, than next year on December 31st we can all look back and laugh at how tiny the ripple created in the ocean was.

Because I'm sure GW is going to feel a 2% loss in profits next year.

so far the only thing i have paied $$ for for my entire SOB army was 2 immolarors (added extra whrilwind bits to make them into exorcists).

but all of my 60+ battle sisters and seraphim i have gotten through trading various odds and ends, some GW some not.

so where exactaly is GW making money on my trading? yes, they made money off the GW items i traded when i first bought them, and they made money off the items i recived when they were first bought.

but i did not buy new GW models, nor did the other trader. we both got what we wanted for the price of postage.


i have also built up most of a chaos army like this (will have to buy the forge world deathguard kits), as well as some guard for my battle sisters to kick around.

lets see, for the past year all the GW boxs i have bought i can count on my hands. yup, there making a load off me.

Well, whatever you guys don't spend on GW stuff I will so in the end they get their money.

Have a nid army to bring up to apoc size (currently at 2500 pts) and than depending on what happens in the fall next year maybe DE (and at some point in time build up my daemons and maybe start BA depending on the codex out in april.

Fateweaver wrote:Well, whatever you guys don't spend on GW stuff I will so in the end they get their money.

I'm not spending $100,000 on GW this year.

Get spendin' Fateweaver.

Fateweaver wrote:

Orlanth wrote:Ok, to help encourage people to keep to the boycott I suggest every participant amends their siggie to show how little of their money has gone to Gw this current year, and where else the hobby money is going.

I am committed to minimising GW spending, which is fairer than promising a 0.0 purchase rate all year. I am ammending my siggie presently....

Great idea, than next year on December 31st we can all look back and laugh at how tiny the ripple created in the ocean was.

Because I'm sure GW is going to feel a 2% loss in profits next year.

Obviously you dont understand.

For the record GW would find a 2% drop from any one source catestrophic, as would any company. You have no idea how much 2% is in business terms.

This aside while we wont be able to do much it will send a protest if enough people get on board, or at least commit to what they have already said they will do, which is the harder part. Many grognards agreed posted they agreed and probably promptly forgot. Siggies help reduce that, at least I wont forget.
You know its all about example, and trends follow. if I am alone nothing will happen, if others change their siggies we will quickly get a ripple effect at least here on Dakka.

Remember our intention is to protest our greivances and hiopefully for Gw to realise that it is in their interest to listen to and respect veteran gamers. The idea is not to damage the company, they dont needs us for that. Besides in the billion to one chance our protest did 'bring GW to its knees' it would be a failure not a success, though admittedly a little gratifying to watch.

Gw still thinks it can feth off customers because 'they will come back'. this used to be true as there was nowhere else to go. GW hasnt learned that that is no longer the case, PP shouldn't have had a chance, they grown not so much on their strengths but by adressing GW's weaknesses. look at their business plan and that truth stares back at you, they are the mirror opposite of GW, and that is what makes them strong.

I look at PP for the new shinies.

The new shinies that cost as much as GW's shinies.

People getting annoyed at a C&D (which is the nicest thing GW can do to a person) need to grow a pair. This argument has been beaten to death. I'm not an apologist but I've seen some of these fan sites sent C&D's and I can see maybe why GW has taken an issue with it.

A few hours time could make the site comply with Big Brothers policies but instead of trying to make it work (removing deep links that link to GW servers, removing TM's names from the urls and removing GW trademarked symbols and images) it's easier to spend hours and hours on dakka and bols and b&C and warseer bitching about it.

For those joining the boycott siggie thing, to give perspective why not mention the amount youwould have spent on GW products, as well as the amount you have spent on non-GW modelly goodness?

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Fateweaver wrote:Well, whatever you guys don't spend on GW stuff I will so in the end they get their money.

I'm not spending $100,000 on GW this year.

Get spendin' Fateweaver.

If I had 100K burning a hole in my wallet I probably would.

I'm sure you'll burn 100k posts bitching about the next 6 codeciies and how GW can't write rules to save their lives when none of the fan based ones I've seen are worth the paper written on either.

1. They can't write rules. Hence the hole-filled, typo-ridden celebration of ambiguity that is every 40k rulebook.

2. The fans can do better than GW, it's just that a lot of them don't seem to have a proper grasp of the concept of balance. Then again neither does GW, they willfully make certain units outperform others in order to push models.

I mean you can't argue that the valkyrie/vendetta are anything but underpriced. The trygon/mawloc I imagine will be just as beastly (and cheap) when the Tyranid codex comes out, since they have a new $50 model to sell.

Cor. Imagine that. A PLC looking to make as much money as possible, using all products at their disposal to make sure they get a return on their latest investments.

Has the world gone mad?

I still yet to see a 9 Vendetta NON-APOC army Sid.

The Trygon rules don't impress me much, the Trygon will sell due to "shiny new model syndrome". I mean look at Pyrovores, the awesome JG sculpted plastic WL which got worst in the latest codex. Obviously those rules weren't written to sell models or you'd see Eldar armies spamming WL's in heavy and nothing else and you'd see people taking 9 Vendettas at 2500pt 'ard boyz.

The IG list that won it in 2k9 did not spam 9 of them. In fact I don't think it even had a single one (or maybe it had 1).

I think the Trygon won't just sell due to SNMS...it's also a pretty fun thing in Apocalypse, alongside Raveners.

And guess what else just got made into plastic?

They will sell because most Gamers aren't as whingey or nit picky as those on the Interwebs

It sure wont sell on rules. It will initially and then people will come to find the Trygon/Mawloc isn't the end all/be all in the HS slots.

Yeah, so much Tyranid stuff, so little actual money.

I think you're wrong about the trygon/mawloc, but we'll see I guess.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Cor. Imagine that. A PLC looking to make as much money as possible, using all products at their disposal to make sure they get a return on their latest investments.

Has the world gone mad?

I guess expecting a company that calls itself "Games Workshop" to be competent at making games is unreasonable.

Fateweaver wrote:I still yet to see a 9 Vendetta NON-APOC army Sid.

And that means what? Just because you don't see people cramming 9 of them into every list doesn't mean it's not underpriced. You won't typically see more than 3-4 in most competitive lists simply because it takes up way too much room beyond that point.

I'm not saying it's overpowered, it's just a little too cheap for what it can do in my opinion. I'm not really trying to complain, I like the IG codex, I'm just saying there's a reason why it's better than everything else in the book.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:For those joining the boycott siggie thing, to give perspective why not mention the amount youwould have spent on GW products, as well as the amount you have spent on non-GW modelly goodness?

Whilst I agree with this, the amount of money you would have spent is somewhat ephemeral as purchases are often tiered. e.g. If I buy a box of Terminators I may at a later point require and buy a Land Raider to transport them or another box of Terminators to make a full squad. If I never buy the Terminators it will never occur to me to buy the Land Raider or the second box of Terminators.

The money you would have spent doesn't always go on toy soldiers, conversely if another game really takes your interest then you may spend more than you would have previously, This is especially true when getting into a new game. Toy soldiers are entirely about perceived value.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:For those joining the boycott siggie thing, to give perspective why not mention the amount youwould have spent on GW products, as well as the amount you have spent on non-GW modelly goodness?

Point, but we dont know. How many of us know from January what we are going to spend all year. I think its enough to be here (and thus nominally someone interested in GW games) and paying a disproportionately large percentage of the hobby money in non GW games.

I think its enough that we post on Warhammer and 40k forums and take an interest in those games while clocking up money spent on other armies and none/next to none spent on GW over the year. the potential loss need not be quantified, the fact that its there, not the amount is what matters.

As ive said many times, this whole debate is a tad pointless, big companies always start to suck, and then the nerds like us complain about it.

Its happened with almost everything that ever became "mainstream"

I love 40k, so while i might dislike some of GW practices, i aint stoppin buying anything, and frankly i find some of the bizarre super aggressive rants by some people on here very bizarre indeed.

Its like some sort of love/hate battered wife syndrome, you know, where they hate their husband and want to kill him but love him too much to leave?

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:They will sell because most Gamers aren't as whingey or nit picky as those on the Interwebs

If you're going to troll, at least be entertaining about it, Kinghammer.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Fateweaver wrote:It sure wont sell on rules. It will initially and then people will come to find the Trygon/Mawloc isn't the end all/be all in the HS slots.

Yeah, so much Tyranid stuff, so little actual money.

I thought you were going to cowboy up and spend to make up for the people boycotting?

Or were you just trolling and trying to be an Internet Tough Guy?

I said little money, not NO MONEY.

I figure to get my army to apoc size by summer will require another 2-3K on my part (counting forgeworld stuff) and than their is daemons and possibly DE if they get released this year.

So I'm not the internet tough guy. I have 12 months although I see 3/4ths of the "boycott tough guys" resuming their normal buying habits in the next 2-3 months.

I'll stick to my promise of spending $2k more on 40k in the next 12 months than any of you will stick to your boycott for the next 2.

Who's acting the tough guy now?

Sidstyler wrote:1. They can't write rules. Hence the hole-filled, typo-ridden celebration of ambiguity that is every 40k rulebook.

2. The fans can do better than GW, it's just that a lot of them don't seem to have a proper grasp of the concept of balance. Then again neither does GW, they willfully make certain units outperform others in order to push models.

I mean you can't argue that the valkyrie/vendetta are anything but underpriced. The trygon/mawloc I imagine will be just as beastly (and cheap) when the Tyranid codex comes out, since they have a new $50 model to sell.

this statment is wrong yes there gona have modles that over power most in the game thats how things work.
if the ganme was comptly balanced it would be bland and boring having things that out match anuffer makes it fun as you sit there thinking how can i beat that armie list with what i have sure some times you lose some times you dont.

as to the fan made stuff are you mad most of it is insanly bad and fluff driven wich is a good thing in some ways but do you really want to sit there and takle 20mins to kill 1 SM (no thank you).

thats my 2 cents on that

Back OT

imho you guys willl get no where with this if you guys do i will eat something nasty(oww peas) GW is in controll no matter if the fans are pissed at them or not,I liken the hobby to sports as it is really a sport say a footballer(soccer for the yanks) misses on peniltys every fan gose mentel and the fans whant him out of the club but how many times has this happoned (im not a big footie fan) it dosnt make a diffrence what the fans whantthat club will mostlikly keep that player on.

yes GW have missed the mark on a few things the past few years yes.
you'r intiled to bitch about it but GW wont change.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:For those joining the boycott siggie thing, to give perspective why not mention the amount youwould have spent on GW products, as well as the amount you have spent on non-GW modelly goodness?

While I won't be adding my expenditures to my signatures, I would guess that anyone that is doing so purchases in the same manner as I do. I have a budget for gaming, approximately $200 a month. If I buy something gaming related, it comes from that pool. So, when I took my money into the FLGS and spent only $25 on the new Skaven army book, there's $175 that didn't go to Games Workshop.

Pre the C+D fracas, that might have been $175 for Games Workshop with $25 going elsewhere. Perhaps all of it would have gone to GW, I need some serious amount of rats.

I'd just like to say, for the record, that I never intended or endorsed a boycott and I'm not really sure how it warped into that. I have felt that a lot of the problems that GWS has are largely related to poor communication, which is what I was really interested in improving. In fact, the only time the word "boycott" appeared in my post was when I stated it was not a boycott.

However, my distaste for some of GWS's actions has influenced my purchasing choices. I'm never stated that I would not buy anything from them, but I certainly intend to spend significantly less if anything on GWS this year. I've started switching over to Warmachine as my "go-to" game... which is not an ideal situation, since I like 40k's mythos far more. In any event, I've dropped in the last 2 weeks $145 on PP that would have certainly gone to Legion of the Damned and drop pods. This was to be a small point of the overall message, not the whole message... /shrug