Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So they're on the 'high seas', private, and engaging another vessel with self confessed chemical weapons.

Somehow this is a legal act of violence?
They didn't intend to take anything of value then?


Pirates who wrecked a darned cool boat.

Yes, we have confirmed that in fact, the Bat-Boat, is actually wrecked.

Yes, the 'Pirates' are the ones that appear to be responsible overall, regardless of whether the slow-ass, non-speed boat being whaling vessel crashed into them. Because it was so difficult to move a multi-million dollar speed boat 30 feet out of the way...

"Deary me, how ever will we be able to evade our certain destruction at the hands of such a large, and cunning vessel such that the Japanese whalers used to force our hand. The hand of righteous justice... The hand... of eco-fury..."

They are not Pirates dude....

Yeah, Feathersword is more threatening.

They're not pirates, not terrorists, just concerned citizens saving the world despite all our ignorant meat eating ways because we don't know better. These are obviously good, noble, and well adjusted people perpetrating no crimes, and involved in no wrongdoing.

Oldgrue wrote:They're not pirates, not terrorists, just concerned citizens saving the world despite all our ignorant meat eating ways because we don't know better.

Funny that, I did just finish a nice whale steak, with baby whale fritters. Mmmmm... almost like I actually had beef, oh well...

Actually looks pretty good...

Joint of Whale Meat Steeped in Red Wine Marinade

Oldgrue wrote:
Sea Shepherd Conservation Society ship Farley Mowat is now officially a pirate vessel.

Cute, but meaningless, as Shuma said, you can call yourself whatever you want, but that doesn't mean you're right.

Oldgrue wrote:
per dictionary.com:
pi⋅rate
–noun
1. a person who robs or commits illegal violence at sea or on the shores of the sea.
2. a ship used by such persons.

That's the wrong definition. You want this definition:

(a) any illegal acts of violence or detention, or any act of depredation, committed for private ends by the crew or the passengers of a private ship or a private aircraft, and directed:

(i) on the high seas, against another ship or aircraft, or against persons or property on board such ship or aircraft;
(ii) against a ship, aircraft, persons or property in a place outside the jurisdiction of any State;

Oldgrue wrote:
So these conservationsts scuttle someone else's boat and its not piracy.

Nope. Harbors are governed by the laws of the nation which controls them. If they aren't pirates according to the laws of the nation in question, then they aren't pirates.

Oldgrue wrote: Still not pirates!

Nope, not violence.

Oldgrue wrote:
Peaceful protesters one and all.

Acid would be a violent attack. However, one minor incident isn't enough to label. Unless you want to be some kind of ridiculous absolutist.

Oldgrue wrote:
"I guess we can call this non-violent chemical warfare," Sea Shepherd's leader, Paul Watson, said.
"We only use organic, non-toxic materials ..."

With the exception of the acid, he would be correct. Throwing stink bombs is not violent.

Oldgrue wrote:
Captain Watson said they homed in on a signal from an electronic surveillance bug planted by activists on the catcher ship Yushin Maru No.2.

And? Not an element of piracy.

Oldgrue wrote:
A boatload of vegans doesn't get a pass just because their sense ecological duty inspires them to save a whale 'by any means necessary' including destruction of property, endangering human life (including theirs) and questionably legal espionage. Without a nation sponsoring them.

But they're not pirates!

No, they aren't. They're extremists, certainly, but not pirates. Stop trying to bend words to your liking so as to make this easier for you intellectually.

The French Secret Service sank the Greenpeace vessel Rainbow Warrior with limpet mines in 1985.

That is real activism.

dogma wrote:Acid would be a violent attack. However, one minor incident isn't enough to label. Unless you want to be some kind of ridiculous absolutist.

Well that is just an attack on the drug culture at large... Don't force it...

Douche... douche... goose...

Pipboy101 wrote:I am just waiting for the whalers start to defend their ships with real firearms which by international law they are allowed to do. Now that will make for good TV.

I seem to recall one where Japanese whalers responded to anti-whaling protesters by throwing hand grenades onto their ship. Does that count as a weapon?

Personally, I hope that the shooting does start. It's been a long time since the good old days aboard the CSS Shenandoah. I could use the sport.

If I owned a PMC I'd offer my services to the Japanese, fire across the Activists bows for warning.

BrotherStynier wrote:If I owned a PMC I'd offer my services to the Japanese, fire across the Activists bows for warning.

If you owned a PMC you wouldn't be in business very long.

Actually you'd be surprised, if I was US based I probably wouldn't. Also since what these people are doing is borderline acceptable this could work. Firing across a bow is different from shooting at the people.

I'm not saying I agree with the whalers, I just like money.

Also International waters work differently from territorial waters, so as far as I know, firing warning shots is perfectly legal.

BrotherStynier wrote:
Also International waters work differently from territorial waters, so as far as I know, firing warning shots is perfectly legal.

As I've said repeatedly in this thread, simply being in international waters does not remove one from legal jurisdiction. You'd be subject to the laws of whatever nation whose flag your vessel flew. Japanese gun control laws are incredibly strict, so I'm pretty certain that in this particular case you would have some difficulty with the law; being civilians in possession of firearms, whether citizens of Japan or not.

Then, perhaps I'm wrong, its cool it, happens from time to time.

I don't see entirely how the hiring of Private Contractors could be problematic when they are not operating in Japan. But what ever.

Sorry if that came off as hostile, I've just made that point like 5 times in this thread in response to people saying international waters = no law.

As for the second part: a ship flying a Japanese flag is essentially Japanese territory (that's an oversimplification, but international law is complicated). Think of it as an embassy sans sovereignty.

dogma wrote:Sorry if that came off as hostile, I've just made that point like 5 times in this thread in response to people saying international waters = no law.

As for the second part: a ship flying a Japanese flag is essentially Japanese territory (that's an oversimplification, but international law is complicated). Think of it as an embassy sans sovereignty.

Oh no, I didn't take it as hostile, so no worries. I also didn't mean to imply international waters equals no law, simply that laws are slightly different.

Oh okay that makes since, I'll look into it more later I think.

I was wrong. i saw what was only from what was the view from the bob barker.
there was no ice chunk. but from what i saw the ady gill went into it.

BrotherStynier wrote:
Oh okay that makes since, I'll look into it more later I think.

Send me a PM if you want some clues. This is what I should be doing for a living.

Whale = nomnom
Sea shepherd people = Criminal and crazed vegan nut cases

Gwar! wrote:One that would force the whaling industry to pay legal fees?

Judge: Furthermore, the Idiot Whale Huggers must pay the Whalers Legal Fees

Anshal wrote:Whale = nomnom
Sea shepherd people = Criminal and crazed vegan nut cases

No, actually they're quite civil. Now, put an ELF member at the helm of a mini sub with some torpedoes and you have a crazed criminal vegan nutcase. Those guys don't just throw blood on children and scream at whaling ships, they kill people and blow things up.

(Fantasies about that for a moment.)

I'm actually waiting to hear that some crazed nutjobs have bought an old Russian sub and started torpedoing whaling ships. I would laugh my ass off. (partially because I was told it was impossible, and partially because of the panic over at Llyod's of London. I'd love to see more Names sink.)

I excuse myself from this passionate argument due to the fact that I've been check-mated by Wrexasaur.