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One thing you're not taking into account is the 10 free heat sinks every mech has.

skyth wrote:One thing you're not taking into account is the 10 free heat sinks every mech has.

I did
PPC x2 = 14 tons
Heat Sinks x12 = 12 tons
Total: 26 tons

Anpu42 wrote:

skyth wrote:One thing you're not taking into account is the 10 free heat sinks every mech has.

I did
PPC x2 = 14 tons
Heat Sinks x12 = 12 tons
Total: 26 tons

You wouldn't have to have 12 more heatsinks. Surely you could get away with 6 and some low heat weapons.... like autocannons?

I was just looking up old mech designs and I found the perfect match for 3025 tech: GRF1S...Medium lasers in the sleeves for if you get up close and ugly you still get arm shots off, 55 tons 5/8/5 jump capable. Full coverage armor, and a LL instead of PPC for range, still keeping it good for sitting on cliff tops and bugging people... plus a ML facing out the back for annoying bugs, with leftover tonnage by removing the LRM10 for enough heat sinks to do everything at once. Think Griffin but dump the LRM, PPC and ammo in favor of a switchup, slightly smaller main gun, lots more close range ability, and now it can handle its heat. Now it's still fast (ish), armored, and heat efficient. means no ammo explosion and the LL instead of PPC is really the only significant loss, with the extra sinks means no heat issues either even when it jumps. It almost punches as hard, and has the MLs in the arms for close brawling, heat sinks to do all at once, and can still watch its rear. Possibly (aside from Grasshopper and Awesome) the slickest variant of a mech in 3025, also it's in that perfect 55 ton efficiency range for staying jumpy. I'm surprised I never noticed it before.

Guitardian wrote:I was just looking up old mech designs and I found the perfect match for 3025 tech: GRF1S...Medium lasers in the sleeves for if you get up close and ugly you still get arm shots off, 55 tons 5/8/5 jump capable. Full coverage armor, and a LL instead of PPC for range, still keeping it good for sitting on cliff tops and bugging people... plus a ML facing out the back for annoying bugs, with leftover tonnage by removing the LRM10 for enough heat sinks to do everything at once. Think Griffin but dump the LRM, PPC and ammo in favor of a switchup, slightly smaller main gun, lots more close range ability, and now it can handle its heat. Now it's still fast (ish), armored, and heat efficient. means no ammo explosion and the LL instead of PPC is really the only significant loss, with the extra sinks means no heat issues either even when it jumps. It almost punches as hard, and has the MLs in the arms for close brawling, heat sinks to do all at once, and can still watch its rear. Possibly (aside from Grasshopper and Awesome) the slickest variant of a mech in 3025, also it's in that perfect 55 ton efficiency range for staying jumpy. I'm surprised I never noticed it before.

Primary problem is your Griffin 1S is wrong.

It SHOULD have a Large Laser in the right arm, 2 mediums in the left arm, and an LRM 5 in Left Torso. 86% armor coverage, but does have 16 heat sinks.

The generally accepted "Best 3025 Medium" is the Wolverine 6M. A large, 2 mediums, and an SRM 6. Still jumpy, with close to maximum armor.

I prefer the Vindicator in 3025, but really wish there was a version that mounted an SRM launcher instead of an LRM 5. I DESPISE LRM 5's.

Just replace the LRM-5 with a SRM-4

I'm sorry. I didn't see the weap placement as its just an 'overview' piece I read. The 3025 tech readout is a little vague in their descriptions of mech variants. I do like the Marik wolverine idea too. Other than appearance it's almost the same mech. I think there were some viable Shadowhawk variants too (because the basic one just kind of sucks), the Kurita one with PPC in place of AC/5 and extra sinks is almost identicle to the Griffin. I just wish they got rid of the LRM/5 and SRM/2 plinky combo for more jumpiness/heat sinks, turning it into a very hard to catch PPC platform hopping all over the place.

I just looked it up and yeah your Wolverine Marik variant is definitely the mech that takes the cake but it still has heat issues if it jumps all the way and fires LL and MLs and SRM at optimum range. Dump the SRM and get more sinks would be my solution for the ultimate mid-weighter, but nobody ever came up with that variant. Hey they are all flawed in some way or another. I like that Shadowhawk only has 3 jump jets making it just jumpy enough to be an annoying brawler, but still keep more weapons/armor load. There are very few mechs who don't have full jump capability, just enough to get by. I think that's cool. Jenner is the only other one I can think of.

It would be fun to play with a mech that has 3/5/1 at 100 tons. Just in case you want to stomp the guy running up on you... plus that single jump can change your facing instead of lurching around while the lights keep hitting you in the back.

I only played the classic video games personally, never got into the modelling... but can I say the Mad Cat is freaking awesome? 75 Tons of pure death. Other favorites were the Shadow Cat, Masakari (Forget it's clan name) and the Fafnir. Fafnir wasn't amazing... but a pair of Heavy Gauss rifles made you wish you had a few tons of armor plating left over after it hit.

Guitardian wrote:
It would be fun to play with a mech that has 3/5/1 at 100 tons. Just in case you want to stomp the guy running up on you... plus that single jump can change your facing instead of lurching around while the lights keep hitting you in the back.

You need at least a jump of 2 to DFA a 'Mech. A jump of 1 would violate the stacking limits prior to the DFA, since you would not have jumped higher than the target.

It's not about DFA it's about being able to turn around, and throw 100 ton punches/kicks if he wants to get in your face trying to jump behind you. The KICK is one of the most awesome weapons in the game. Jumping isn't about landing on people's heads, DFA has always been a risky iffy thing no matter how cool your mech is. It's about repositioning why to have a single jump square that lets you turn on a dime and beat the crap out of little gnat mechs who were trying to get you in the back. Watch a Victor or a Grasshopper jump behind and kick the leg off of anything under 50 tons that was trying to hit its back. On a restricted size hex map, just jumping 1 means you can turn completely around so as to punch somethings head off with a scant yet reasonable chance of success, keep your back clear, and get that -1 for jumping during the follow up turn. Btech is a game of stacking +1s and -1s on a very stable 2d6 bell curve, on almost every table. Only a few have 1d6 flat probability (like kicks and punches, crits, or partial cover) take advantage of that and take your jump 1 move to punch that annoying gnat in the head, not to potentially hurt your legs and fall flat on your face. DFA is not a reliable plan, it's a desperation plan.

Partial cover isn't a 1d6 any more btw

Anywhere a Jump 1 will get you, a run 5 will get you as well (Other than a few rare exceptions). It will also make the gnat easier for you to hit. a +1 to be hit over a 0 isn't that much of a difference. A +3 to hit over a +2 is, especially since any 'gnat' type mech will likely be giving you at least another +3.

Endgame wrote:One of the number one killers when I was playing in College was the Kraken (10x Ultra AC 2s, IIRC). That mech seemed to always wreck something from crits about every other turn. That many shots really ups the odds on rolling snake eyes or box cars, and the range is so long that nothing can really even shoot back.

The Bane is actually a workable design in its role, anti-vehicle. It should immobilise two tanks a turn at long range from track/wheel hits. It can also erode away a light mech. This mech however is an odd design not for its weapon loadout but because its design predetermines the absence of Zellbriggen.

Orlanth wrote:

Endgame wrote:One of the number one killers when I was playing in College was the Kraken (10x Ultra AC 2s, IIRC). That mech seemed to always wreck something from crits about every other turn. That many shots really ups the odds on rolling snake eyes or box cars, and the range is so long that nothing can really even shoot back.

The Bane is actually a workable design in its role, anti-vehicle. It should immobilise two tanks a turn at long range from track/wheel hits. It can also erode away a light mech. This mech however is an odd design not for its weapon loadout but because its design predetermines the absence of Zellbriggen.

Zellbrigen does not apply to vehicles.

I would like to nominate the Kraken/Bane as the official Dakka mascot Mech . No Mech in existence ( that I can think of ) embodies our beloved site so well. Think about it. If ten (10) UAC/2;s don´t scream DAKKADAKKA! I don´t know what does !

A-P wrote: I would like to nominate the Kraken/Bane as the official Dakka mascot Mech . No Mech in existence ( that I can think of ) embodies our beloved site so well. Think about it. If ten (10) UAC/2;s don´t scream DAKKADAKKA! I don´t know what does !

About 40 machine guns would do it better.

And you haven't seen anything until you see a Kraken jam 8 out of 10 Ultra-2's in the FIRST ROUND OF A GAME.

I vote for the 40 machineguns.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually that would just take forever to finish a turn with... oh yeah... like 40k. Throw in some SRM6s on top and you have the two hour fire phase. That would be a dakka champion.

Isnt there an officila protomech design without about 12 machine guns?

Guitardian wrote:I vote for the 40 machineguns.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually that would just take forever to finish a turn with... oh yeah... like 40k. Throw in some SRM6s on top and you have the two hour fire phase. That would be a dakka champion.

That is why you use a dice box.

Take a plastic tray, like the kind for tackle boxes.

Put 2 dice in each separate compartment.

Shake (which makes a lot of noise).

Have 20-25 2d6 results!

Mattlov wrote:

Vulcan wrote:You mean the ability to call a hit location and do 40 points of damage to it, don't you?

Which you cannot do anymore with pulse lasers and a targeting computer. Makes designs like that far less useful.

It doesnt matter in Battletech accuracy is everything. I don't mind the damage spread if my weapons hit, after all everything else has a damage spread and LRMs are popular enough.

I hate targeters and pulse lasers they are ok on their own but together they ruin the game. You cannot escape the fire.

60 Ways to personalize your BattleMech
--

Leather Upholstery
Fuzzy Dice
Ice chest next to heat sinks filled with Old English 800
Radar detector on dashboard
Flame decals on sides
Tinted windows
CD player w/ Dolby Surround-sound.
Picks up dirty satellite channels
Gun Rack
Spoilers
Custom exhaust manifold
Luggage rack over Tactical Targeting Modual
3 year or 30,000 mile service contract
Plays the "Mighty Mouse" theme if you honk the horn
Bored out cylinders increase horsepower by 24%
Hotplate over fusion reactor
Glowing neon blue lights illuminate feet for cruising at night
Really big glove compartment
Game Boy option under Fire-Control system
Clapper hooked up to ejection system
Targeting computer that critiques battle performance
Neon-green windshield wipers
Clint Eastwood samples can be played over loadspeakers "Do you feel lucky punk?". (Intimidation can turn the tide of any battle.)
"Flight of the Valkyries" played when Jump-jets engaged.
"The Four Horsemen" by Metallica played when going full throttle
Friendly message that informs pilot "Radiation seal his been broken. Your children will have 4 arms."
68 inch Bose speakers for the proper bass. (Unfortunataly, Medium Laser only does 3 points of damage if the stereo is on and interior lights dim.)
Celluar phone links directly with closest ComStar Hyperpulse Generator station. 25% discount for calls between 11 and 8.
Cruise control
Zebra skin roof covering
Strobe lights mounted on feet
500 Watt CB with an echo mike and sound effects
Ceiling-mounted licorice dispenser
A direct com-link to Pizza Hut
Red hatch marks on side to give impression that it is a '96 Camaro
Liquor cabinet behind the command couch
King-sized bumper sticker that says "Get any closer and I'll eat you"
Pair of Nikes painted on feet of 'Mech
Hood ornament of a ram head from an old Dodge Ram
Yosamite Sam mud flaps
Special voice added to scanners when picking up enemy units - goes "Danger! Danger!" in Robby the Robot's voice
Trailer hitch to pull around all that extra ordinance
Authentic wood paneling
A little hula dancer on the dashboard
Three Stooges sound effects when you score a kill
Offensive language written on weapons
James Brown security alarm
Dirt Devil Car Vac (modified for 'mech use) stored under command couch
Automatic seatbelts
Internal rollcage (for offroading)
"Have a nice day" with a happy face painted on the back
Disco ball hanging in cockpit
Big screen TV
Cargo compartment for the Harley you wish you owned
Waterbed located underneath command couch
Off-road KC halogen lamps with the little happyface covers
Sunglass shaped window covers (for sunny days)
Rear Window Defogger
Two wo
rds - Air Conditioning

Mattlov wrote:

A-P wrote: I would like to nominate the Kraken/Bane as the official Dakka mascot Mech . No Mech in existence ( that I can think of ) embodies our beloved site so well. Think about it. If ten (10) UAC/2;s don´t scream DAKKADAKKA! I don´t know what does !

About 40 machine guns would do it better.

And you haven't seen anything until you see a Kraken jam 8 out of 10 Ultra-2's in the FIRST ROUND OF A GAME.

8 out of 10? Really? The Demon Murphy is truly a mighty Herald of the Dark Side!

A-P wrote:

Mattlov wrote:

A-P wrote: I would like to nominate the Kraken/Bane as the official Dakka mascot Mech . No Mech in existence ( that I can think of ) embodies our beloved site so well. Think about it. If ten (10) UAC/2;s don´t scream DAKKADAKKA! I don´t know what does !

About 40 machine guns would do it better.

And you haven't seen anything until you see a Kraken jam 8 out of 10 Ultra-2's in the FIRST ROUND OF A GAME.

8 out of 10? Really? The Demon Murphy is truly a mighty Herald of the Dark Side!

I didn't make the roll, but got to witness it. It was hilarious.

Bit ot, but had to share.

Victor vs Marauder, I had the Victor.

Range:1 I fired AC, Both ML & SRM. All hit. All hit chest. Marauder fires back, cant remember what hit, but caused >20pts. I fall over. For the next three rounds, all fire, including kicks from the MAD, from both mechs completely miss, I fail all 6 attempts to stand up, finally causing an internal crit to myself detonating my remaining ammo.

Andrew

That sorta reminds me of how I learned not to put ammo in the CT of mechs...

Warhammer vs. something with LRM-5, I don't remember what. He fires, hits for minimum damage (only two missiles hit)... CT possible crit, crit confirmed, hits MG ammo... BOOOOM!

Shortest game of BT I've ever played, it took longer to fill out the sheets!

Way back in early 1st edition a sucssessful CT just destroid the Mech.
I can not count the number Mechs killed by that icidental just becose it there Small Laser Shot.

Perhaps we were playing it wrong, but the damage allocation from any ammo crit without CASE pretty much destroyed you (Why I hate the Dervish with its stupid arm ammo). Mech designs ideally always put heat sinks in legs, heads, CT, 1 slot weapons in CT or head, ammo in side torso etc just to play the probability curve of 1/36 chance of headshot 1/36 chance of CT crit. If you have just one extra 1/6 chance that crit will get a heat sink instead of blowing off a head, or whacking the gyro, its still better than nothing. However, those mechs are all far from ideal. That's why they're fun!

Worst shortest game ever: 6 players, lance vs lance, old school style, but 2 players each had 2 mechs each so we could get the whole lance thing (1 heavy each for 4 of us, and 1 L/1 medium for the other two). I had my Crusader-D (the one with downgraded SRMs and no MGs so it could fire every turn).

True to form in its fire support role, my first turn I parked it in heavy woods on a level 3 hill by running on my first turn. WAAAy in the back of the map.

I had usually done quite well with Crusaders. They were tough, and had a great range bracket, and were big enough to brawl, and often ended up being the last surviving mech in the lance. "Ol'Reliable'"

"Bring it on" I'm thinking, with the choicest vantage point on the board and LRM15s waiting for the target to start spraying at and no heat issues at all.

Kurita guys hopped a Griffin onto a hill exactly medium range away on their turn, PPC shot rolls a 12 to hit (medium range AND jumping, plus my movement and cover was the only hit possible)

hit location: head. PPC means all armor gone, rolls his crit and it's 'head blown off'... first shot of the game first turn of the game. So much for the durable Crusader I guess.

My teammate who was running the medium and light mechs let me take over his backup Stinger since he had 2 mechs just so we could finish the game, but we lost horribly without Ol'Reliable up there in his usual post on the cliff raining missiles from good cover. I spent the rest of the game hopping around taking the occasional potshot while being chased by the same griffin that killed my Crusader, just trying to avoid being hit. I don't remember how many turns in we were but the stinger got its head blown off too by another lucky hit from that same PPC. I just gave up, cursing that guy with all his boxcars as I stormed out for a cigarette. TWO HEADS BLOWN OFF ON BOXCARS!!?? damn I was mad.

Once [also back in early 1st] we had been playing for an hour when some one showed up late.
He came with his new 100 ton Custom Quad called the Mammoth.
It waddles on to the board his 5 hexes
An Vulcan form 22 hexes away pops him with his AC/2 and pulls off the Instant Kill CT shot.

Of coarse this is the guy with Jenner with the Golden Leg.
This one Jenner no mater what during the game would catch an AC/20 in the Right Leg.

I didn't think they had rules for Quads that early...

The Quad Rules were the same as Bi-Peds when the original Goliath and Scorpion came out

Guitardian wrote:Perhaps we were playing it wrong, but the damage allocation from any ammo crit without CASE pretty much destroyed you (Why I hate the Dervish with its stupid arm ammo). Mech designs ideally always put heat sinks in legs, heads, CT, 1 slot weapons in CT or head, ammo in side torso etc just to play the probability curve of 1/36 chance of headshot 1/36 chance of CT crit. If you have just one extra 1/6 chance that crit will get a heat sink instead of blowing off a head, or whacking the gyro, its still better than nothing. However, those mechs are all far from ideal. That's why they're fun!

Nope, you were probably playing right. Ammo explosions are generally always fatal without CASE. Unless the game has been going on a long time and you are almost out of ammo.

TWO HEADS BLOWN OFF ON BOXCARS!!?? damn I was mad.

I had this happen to me last year at the Trial of Bloodright tournament at GenCon. I have a Nova Cat Prime, a deadly beast, against a Summoner-C. We trade a little long range fire, and then he closes to bring the Ultra-20 to bear.

His first hit goes to my head. Each pilot had a point of "Edge," so I had him reroll the location. Head again.

That Nova Cat WANTED it's pilot to die. In the first round of the tournament I took an AC/10 to the head, and had to Edge another fatal shot that game, too. I managed to kill my opponent with a breezy cockpit, though, that round.