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Okay, so Warmill fell through, it is beyond their current ability of in-house production it seems. Wasn't able to get through to troll-forged...

...so... I'm going back to the original plan of plastic production (or at the very least RIM - Rapid Injection Molding, which is basically resin casting on a larger scale). I'm currently working on a couple other projects for some friends, but as I wrap those up I'll be getting back to work on this stuff. I'll need to make some minor alterations to the design in order to make it fully compatible with the plastic molding process, but for the most part these will be structural/engineering based rather than cosmetic. I'll also be getting moving on the weapon options, if you have any ideas/suggestions for weapon types, feel free to post them (pics, etc.).

The way I see it, is that I'll be leaving college in December with about 50,000 dollars in debt, the cost of getting molds tooled and a production line started won't really make things that much worse (we're talking about adding another $10k in debt, not that that much in the grand scheme of things), and this will at least see a return provided I can generate enough sales.

Anyway, to get an idea of how feasible this will be, I need you guys to answer a short questionnaire for me (please be honest/realistic):

1. Assuming cost is no object, how many weapon carriage models do you want/need? Consider this as the total/maximum number you would purchase to meet your current mini wants/needs.

2. How many weapons carriage minis would you purchase if they were 3 for $24?

3. How many weapons carriage minis would you purchase if they were 5 for $35?

4. How many weapons carriage minis would you purchase if they were 15 for $90?

Note that these prices are subject to change, they are what I figure I will be able to charge based on my estimates. In terms of material/production costs they are more than realistic, the real questionmark is the cost of production molds, and if/when I will be able to recoup that investment.

I'd probably be interested or willing to get the 5 pack, or 2 sets of 3- and that's just for the carrage, not with any weapons. I'd be looking at them more for some Big Gunz for my Orks, rather than IG.

Which is actually something you ought to think about- are you trying for something that's mostly compatible/to be used with 40k? Or are you looking to sell these as generic "Heavy Iron Gun Carriage" models?

Actually, if they're near or equal to the rendered model in detail, I'd probably be willing to buy a 3 pack for $35-40. It's pretty nice detail, and a good aesthetic- plus it'd be useable in most steampunk or gothic sci-fi setting, and it even looks like it'd have some nice bits on it for conversion and scratch work.

They are generic gun carriages, born out of my desire to see guard armies running around with a light version of ww2 era german pak 36s/40s. In other words, they are generic, so they won't be limited to use by 40k gamers, but they are being modeled with an eye towards 40k players.

As for Orks, it shouldn't be hard to convert the carriage, a couple bits like glyphplates or plasticard here and there and you're good. The weapons won't be orky per-se, but they are going to be on the lower tech side of the sci-fi spectrum, My missile launcher equivalent should be suitable for use as a kannon more or less out of the box, and so should the lascannon equivalent be suitable for the zzap gun (I might even throw in an extra bit that you can attach to the end of the barrel that is reminiscent of the shokk attack gun to make it a bit easier). The only question is the mortar/lobba option. I'm debating whether to include a mortar at all, as including it would require a modification to both the carriage and the shield.

As for detail, they should come out virtually the same as the rendered model. The design is within the limits of (high end) printing/CAM technology.

Nice. And the rokkets- eherm, sorry, Rockets would work fine as Lobbas, really. Orky players can always konvert if need be.

I would buy in 3 or like 9 packs, as that just makes sense for certain rules.

How many I would buy, well that depends more on the time they come out, during the school year, that is hard to say.

Obviously if they were on the cheaper side, I would purchase a lot of them.

Well,I'm trying to keep them as cheap as possible, but I need to at the very least be able to break even, so the price is ultimately determined by my perception of demand...

chaos0xomega wrote:Okay, so Warmill fell through, it is beyond their current ability of in-house production it seems. Wasn't able to get through to troll-forged...

...so... I'm going back to the original plan of plastic production (or at the very least RIM - Rapid Injection Molding, which is basically resin casting on a larger scale). I'm currently working on a couple other projects for some friends, but as I wrap those up I'll be getting back to work on this stuff. I'll need to make some minor alterations to the design in order to make it fully compatible with the plastic molding process, but for the most part these will be structural/engineering based rather than cosmetic. I'll also be getting moving on the weapon options, if you have any ideas/suggestions for weapon types, feel free to post them (pics, etc.).

The way I see it, is that I'll be leaving college in December with about 50,000 dollars in debt, the cost of getting molds tooled and a production line started won't really make things that much worse (we're talking about adding another $10k in debt, not that that much in the grand scheme of things), and this will at least see a return provided I can generate enough sales.

Anyway, to get an idea of how feasible this will be, I need you guys to answer a short questionnaire for me (please be honest/realistic):

1. Assuming cost is no object, how many weapon carriage models do you want/need? Consider this as the total/maximum number you would purchase to meet your current mini wants/needs.

2. How many weapons carriage minis would you purchase if they were 3 for $24?

3. How many weapons carriage minis would you purchase if they were 5 for $35?

4. How many weapons carriage minis would you purchase if they were 15 for $90?

Note that these prices are subject to change, they are what I figure I will be able to charge based on my estimates. In terms of material/production costs they are more than realistic, the real questionmark is the cost of production molds, and if/when I will be able to recoup that investment.

Shame about the other options falling through. Although an extra $10k might seem like a lot on top of the other debt you'll be carrying, make sure you're thinking with your wallet there and not your heart!

That said, on to your question...

1. Ideally? Probably on the order of 15-18. Enough to do a good number of Heavy Weapon squads and HW for my line squads. Less, of course, the mortars and missile launchers anyway... Yeah... 15 would probably do it. 18 might be overkill, although that's a concept that's fairly foreign to Guard...

Hard time answering the other questions, but overall, I'd probably have a total budget of not more than ~$100 for the heavy weapons platforms for my Tallarn since I'd still have to deal with weapons and crew. That said, I'd probably wouldn't be willing to plop down $90 "sight unseen" on the platforms, no matter how nice the renders looked until I could get a sense of whether or not they'd work for what I'd want. Don't get me wrong, they renders look very nice, but I'd want to make sure they work before I'd be happy dropping the big monies.

But in short, your #4 option would work quite well for me, with the one caveat outlined above.

So, yeah, if you can get the prices in the range you've listed above, and the models come out looking like one would hope, I'd expect to be good for ~$100.

But to rain one last time on the parade, are there 100+ folks (and that's not even factoring in material cost and labor!) who'd be willing to pay that much to get you to the break-even point on a $10k investment? I certainly don't want to discourage the introduction of these platforms, as they have potential, mind you. Just a cautionary note...

Valete,

JohnS

Well, thats why I'm asking people to answer these questions for me, to give me an idea of how many an 'average' customer would buy (I would take myself, but I have need for about 90 of them, I'm probably right in assuming I'm not 'average'), be it 1 or 100. I'm figuring that I can realistically expect about 100-150 people minimum will make a purchase within 3 month of release (especially following my intended marketing blitz, sending out a couple free samples for review by BOLS, BoK, TGN, BoW, etc. so I can get the word out). Using that number I can determine the economic feasibility of actually making the investment to get this done. I'm willing to eat a small initial loss on this (by small I mean a few hundred bucks to a grand or so) because once this is in production, it will generate revenue effectively on its own with only a minor investment on my part to maintain production lines.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, serious question, how do you guys feel about the inclusion of ammocrates/weapon accessories? Yes or you can live without them/use existing bits? It won't really impact costs that much, just time (to make them).

Honestly, I'd sell them separately, and keep the prices of each 'package' low. That way folks will have the option of buying the gun carriage without the guns, the guns without the carriage, the ammo crates without either, etc... It opens up the market to those who aren't necessarily looking for field artillery miniatures, and are just looking for 'guns' of some description, or trailers, or things to mount other stuff on. Plus, psychologically speaking, the average person's going to be more likely to buy two kits, one for $15 and one for $10, than one kit for $25, even if they contain the exact same things, because each kit is below the 'cheapness' threshold.

Unfortunately its not the option. The cost of doing separate molds for weapons and carriages is effectively twice the cost of doing one mold for both. We're talking 3-4k dollars for each set of molds in that case.

Although selling them seperatly would bring the possibility of you having excess stock of one while running out of the other it is still possible to sell them seperatly even if they are manufactured together.

I look forward to seeing your project comming to fruition.

mullet_steve wrote:Although selling them seperatly would bring the possibility of you having excess stock of one while running out of the other it is still possible to sell them seperatly even if they are manufactured together.

Thats the reason why its not going to happen.

Don't know if it's too late to answer but I would do 2 3-packs at the moment.
However if I get my lazy butt in gear it would probably be another 2 3-packs at the end of the year as well.

Never too late to chime in (unless I'm already pumping stuff out for production). Thanks for the data!

If we're talking about theoretical maximums, I could be persuaded to get 2 of the 15-for-$90 deal.

However - I'd want to see the finished, produced items first. I'd also have to take into account the postage costs.

Additionally and with no offence, but I'd likely prefer to purchase them via eBay or some such, as sending $200-odd to a guy off a board with a promise to send me some stuff is too risky. With eBay I have some protection for my payment. Same deal with the more established webstores.

Thanks for the thoughts scipio.

Out of curiosity, how do you guys feel about kickstarter? I"m contemplating finishing the design and getting quotes, etc. for plastic. Depending on what I hear I'll start a kickstarter campaign, and if enough people pitch in I can get this moving for realsies. As a reward, I would give people that donated free kits for every x number dollars they committed, ideally the dollar value for this would be less than the retail value of each kit, making it more advantageous to donate to the kickstarter then to sit and wait, and also making it a sort of 'preorder' system.

As for seeing a real example of this before committing, I would get some prototype prints first, assemble/paint them and display them for all to see first (obviously).

Kickstarter might be a good idea. Get some folks who've shown interest to put a bit of skin in the game as it were...

Valete,

JohnS

I would probably do a kickstarter.

Anything to help you eventually bring out amazingly beautiful tanks

I may actually donate to that, if you were to start one. I'd actually love to get one or two of those carriages and maybe a gun or two.

Cool, great to hear. I'm about to finish wrapping up a couple of unrelated projects, as soon as that is done, figure about a week or two for me to finish the plastic version of the design files plus weapons, another week for a quote/negotiations and then kickstarter is a go. From there I can get moving on the tank again, and hopefully get that done in a reasonable timeframe.

So you're going plastic?

Wow 15 for $90? I'd be on that like a fat kid to a smartie! Though realistically speaking my budget would likely see me jumping on 3 to start with. But how to say no to $6/pc? .




You know; there are some cannons not made for certain vehicles **cough** basilisk **cough** variants **cough** that I'd like to see your eventual 3d sculpts for. Both the gun carriage and the tank look awesome and I think fit in to the Imperial vehicle design nicely; though would be on the newer end of tanks of course.


The only concern I have for the LRBT is that the front hull mount weapon seems like it would be getting more than a 45° firing arc :S. Not that I wouldn't love my tank to have a larger field of view, but I know a lot would rag on it for being modeled for advantage; well in this case purchased for advantage .

Coyotius wrote:So you're going plastic?

Afraid so Coyotius. Well, really it depends on how the Kickstarter goes. I may still have some resin work for you down the line, but nobody is really doing sci-fi plastics atm, and I wanted to go plastic since the beginning.

Dracheous wrote:Wow 15 for $90? I'd be on that like a fat kid to a smartie! Though realistically speaking my budget would likely see me jumping on 3 to start with. But how to say no to $6/pc? .




You know; there are some cannons not made for certain vehicles **cough** basilisk **cough** variants **cough** that I'd like to see your eventual 3d sculpts for. Both the gun carriage and the tank look awesome and I think fit in to the Imperial vehicle design nicely; though would be on the newer end of tanks of course.


The only concern I have for the LRBT is that the front hull mount weapon seems like it would be getting more than a 45° firing arc :S. Not that I wouldn't love my tank to have a larger field of view, but I know a lot would rag on it for being modeled for advantage; well in this case purchased for advantage .

I thought hull mounts had 90° arcs? woops....

And yes, I have plans for an APC halftrack and associated variants (artillery, anti air, Rocket, flame tank, and light tank). That is obviously farther down the line.

The front is a 45 arc, but it shouldn't really matter. It isn't like it is that hard to measure a 45 from the center of the turret. I would keep it as is cause it looks awesome!

chaos0xomega wrote:

Afraid so Coyotius. Well, really it depends on how the Kickstarter goes. I may still have some resin work for you down the line, but nobody is really doing sci-fi plastics atm, and I wanted to go plastic since the beginning.

Well, I wish you a sincere best of luck. You know how to reach me if you change your mind...still might not hurt to get a quote from me though.

Talizvar wrote:Ummm... looks really cool but I cannot shake the feeling that with the first picture you unconsciously made a "Millennium Falcon" turret.

Sigged baby,

And I think it looks good. What software are you using?

I agree with anyone who mentioned this looks Like the Merkava MBT...which is fairly well known as the Milleniium Falcon in target identification.
The only gripe I have about the tank is probably intentional on your part. In the rear the tracks slope down instead of up...fits GW models but not the real world. and the lengthy space between the 6 road wheels and the seventh could be mashed up, maybe 3 close a space, 2 space, 2. Just a thought. good luck on production.

BroneJon, I'm using NX 7.5

Auston, the rear tracks actually slope up, just not as severely as in most real world vehicles. There are only 6 road wheels, the 7th one is actually an idler. You can make it out a bit better if you look at the side profile view in the first post. I'm contemplating making the idler a bit smaller to make the effect a bit more pronounced.

If these can go to Australia i would say 15 pack. that would be awesome for guard.

I don't see why it couldn't go to Oz/NZ. There will be a higher s&h, but just because GW is screwing you guys doesn't mean I will too. I'm almost done with my other obligations, should be two-three days, and then I can get back to work. Aiming to open up the Kickstarter around October at the latest.