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Bjorn would be great. Walk 6" away, shoot him with twin linked laser cannon. Rince and repeat.

AbaddonFidelis wrote:wolf priest yes.
bjorn....?

Niiai wrote:OK, hands down: Bjorn kiting him with a plasma cannon


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No! Even more humiliating! A wolf priest with jaws of the world wolf. Chomp.

Pretty sure you guys mean Rune Priest.

OverwatchCNC wrote:

AbaddonFidelis wrote:wolf priest yes.
bjorn....?

Niiai wrote:OK, hands down: Bjorn kiting him with a plasma cannon


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No! Even more humiliating! A wolf priest with jaws of the world wolf. Chomp.

Pretty sure you guys mean Rune Priest.

They do mean Rune Priest.
Though i'm not sure how Bjorn would fail.

A Dreadnought (Bjorn) cannot kite him around because they can only move 6" and fire. Lysander can move 6+ 1D6 until in charge range, so he can catch up.

The dread would have to then move AND run 6+ 1D6, then Lysander can just wait for a bad run roll, and move in for the kill with a 6"+ 6" charge.

Bjørn walk's 6 and shoots, lysander walks 6 and runs 1d6. Bjorn could probably walk into dificult terain etc but lets not go into that.

Bjørn with an INSANE BS skill and a twin linked lascanon will hot and a 1/6 to wound. Then lysander will have a 2/3 chanche to save. Now divide the distance the lascannon can shoot with how fast he runs on average and I think bjorn will winn. Even if he has some wounds left bjorn can be quite mean in close bombat!

OK bjorn has 98,06 chanche of hitting with a twin linked las cannon, he will wound 5 in 6 (so that is 81% so far) and lysander will save 2 in 3 so all in all bjørn will have a 27,23% chanche to get in one wound each round. The Las Canon has a range of 48, and lysander runs an averadge of 3,5. He will charge the last round a full 6, exept bjorn will charge him so that is an averadge of (42/3,5) 12 rounds with shoting, and bjorn would in that time deal 3,26 wounds. Aslo the heavy flamer witch will deal 0.11 wound so he is then up in 3,37 wounds. Bjorn then charges!

Bjorn got 5 attacks. hitting on 4+, damadges on 2+ and saves on 3+. Witch mounts down to 0,1388 per attack, times 5 attacks makes 0,6944 wounds in first round of combat, adding the 3.37 wounds we have from before and that makes 4,06 wounds done over 12 rounds and bjorn takes none back. Although lysander could go first. In witch case we are not quite there yet.

Then lysander hits back 3 attacks, hits on 4+, glanses on 3+, damages on 4+. OK here the math got realy hard because bjorn has the re roll and the ward etc. Somebody else do that, but I would still put my money on bjorn.

Edit: I can try.

Glance = -1 on the damadge chart, so he destroys bjorn on a 6, exept bjorn forces him to reroll so it is 2/36, and then bjorn has the +5 invonerable save. Amounting to 0,037% chanche glansing.
penetrating hit= +1 on damdge chart so he desroys on 4+, bjorn re rolls so it is 18/36 and then the + 5 inoverable save. 0,33 chanche on penetrating.

OK, I do not know how I ad that up to the chanches of hitting and killing via glacing 0,9% and hitting and killing via penetrating 24,75% adding up to a whoping 25,65% change of killing bjorn in the following round of combat. I have NO idea how you calculate back since bjorn now is stunned etc, but it is fear to asume that from this point forward he will eather kill lysander EASALY or he will have been hitt and stunned and has a good chache of getting killed.

rune priest yes. not wolf priest. sorry.

Bjorn isnt going to kill lysander with shooting attacks. Assume he hits all 6 times (he wont) and that he wounds all 6 times too (he wont do that either but w/e), lysander is still going to make 2/3 of his saves. Bjorn isnt going to outrun lysander either - like you said lysander can run, bjorn cant run and shoot. not that bjorn has an infinite space to back peddle in. games are on 4x6 tables he'll run out of room. And lysander will absolutely clobber bjorn in close combat too. come on....

Well, math hammering it out in a normal games max 7 turn duration (since we are now ignoring the original threads 1 on 1 combat premise)

Bjorn has about a 75% chance to wound per turn. Thats 5.25 wounds in a maximum 7 turn game; not near the 12 wounds Lysander must take to be killed.

Moving outside of the regular 7 turn restriction, Bjorn would need 16 turns of shooting to kill Lysander. For simplicitys sake, saying Lysander averages a 3.5" run per turn, and Bjorn is moving 6 inches away each turn, Lysander will close in 3.5" per turn. That is 56" he will close before he dies.


Assuming a pitched battle deployment, and Lysander deploying as far up in the middle as possible and Bjorn deploying in the corner as far away as possbile, you get this distance:



Which I cannot calculate because I forgot Triginometry from high school (help here somebody?). Lysander would only have to move north or west 36" to cut off Bjorn, or if Bjorn stayed stationary in the corner Lysander would have 156" of movement before he lost all 4 wounds.

Once in hand to hand, Lysander will own with Str 10 ap 1 of course.

The Sanguinor might be able to best Lysander in CC. He gets 5 base attacks, +1 for having a two handed mastercrafted weapon. Also with Avenging Angel, it allows him to re-roll To Hits and To Wounds against an enemy HQ. If Lysanders on the field, im definetely using it on him. If he charges, FC bumps his St from 5 to 6. He also has Eternal Warrior meaning he wont die outright fron Instant Death. Also a 3+ Inv might help him brush off some Thammer hits. WS 8 and Init 6 (7 with FC) also means the Sanguinor hits Lysander easier than Lysander hits him. Though Lysanders St 10 is awesome, i must admit. Fearless allows the Sanguinor to remain in battle no matter how wounds are allocated.

lysander doesnt have to chase bjorn, now that he think about it. he can just.... ignore him.

How on earth can he ignore bjorn? You mean start running and after a while he will have run faster then bjorn? I think bjorn runs a full 6 so on a whole he will be abel to follow and snipe at the same time. The bias of this thread is as I was told a 1 on 1 battle.

Niiai wrote:How on earth can he ignore bjorn? You mean start running and after a while he will have run faster then bjorn? I think bjorn runs a full 6 so on a whole he will be abel to follow and snipe at the same time. The bias of this thread is as I was told a 1 on 1 battle.

Abaddon is saying, that in the confines of a normal game, Lysander can ignore Bjorn because Bjorn would take 16 turns of shooting to kill Lysander, way more then the maximum 7 turns allowed.

The math has been done, Bjorn has no chance against Lysander, even while attempting to kite. Lysander will tear Bjorn a new one.

Hmmm...I am also pretty shure a thunder wolf lord with eternal warrior, thunderwolf, shield and ice sword, wolf tail talisman would be abel to do i macke him hit on 3+. True he has 1 wound less, but a litt more attacks. Also, his wolf companions count as wargear, so he has 6 attacks on the charge just there :-D


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In a real combat I realy do think Bjorn ads more to the table then shooting at lysander who probably is in a squad if he knows what is good for him.

Bjorn would be wrecking tanks left and right while lysander was thinking "why don't I have one of them ranged weapons" and when bjorn dies on an objective the SW player suddenly has 2 objectives.

If bjorn and lysander where stuck on a planet, witouth terain, bjorn would winn.

Edit: You know, thinking of it. Bjorn Runes faster then lysander on an averadge so he could kite lysander indefenitly. Probably kill him faster to with an autocanonon instead of a laser.

Lysander + Drop-pod = PROFIT

Bjorn just gained str10 to the face Overall I do think the Sanguinor would outdo Lysander, just. Unless he rolls really bad

Niiai wrote:Hmmm...I am also pretty shure a thunder wolf lord with eternal warrior, thunderwolf, shield and ice sword, wolf tail talisman would be abel to do i macke him hit on 3+. True he has 1 wound less, but a litt more attacks. Also, his wolf companions count as wargear, so he has 6 attacks on the charge just there :-D


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In a real combat I realy do think Bjorn ads more to the table then shooting at lysander who probably is in a squad if he knows what is good for him.

Bjorn would be wrecking tanks left and right while lysander was thinking "why don't I have one of them ranged weapons" and when bjorn dies on an objective the SW player suddenly has 2 objectives.

If bjorn and lysander where stuck on a planet, witouth terain, bjorn would winn.

Lysander can close 56" before dieing while under fire from Bjorn. Lascannon IIRC is 48" range. Once Bjorn is in range, then Lysander is in range to intercept and kill Bjorn before going down. Even ignoring the Constrains of a 4x6 board

The mathhammer does not lie.

Your mathhammer is wrong.

Bjorn kills him in 14 and a half round, not 16. It all depends if Bjorn starts or not. But then again, bjorn can just kite him to death. although, if they did end up meating and bjorn started the game he would winn, no sufering a wound as I proved above.

Niiai wrote:Your mathhammer is wrong.

Bjorn kills him in 14 and a half round, not 16. It all depends if Bjorn starts or not. But then again, bjorn can just kite him to death. although, if they did end up meating and bjorn started the game he would winn, no sufering a wound as I proved above.

Whereas Lysander could kill him in 1 round.
I may be a SW player but Bjorn would be killed pretty damn easily.
Although Lukas the Trickster might be able to take Lysander down.

Nah. Lysander vs bjorn, bjorn wins each time. Walk, Run, Walk, Shoot, repeat

Niiai wrote:Your mathhammer is wrong.

Bjorn kills him in 14 and a half round, not 16. It all depends if Bjorn starts or not. But then again, bjorn can just kite him to death. although, if they did end up meating and bjorn started the game he would winn, no sufering a wound as I proved above.

Even with 14.5 rounds of shooting to kill Lysander, given the confines of a 4x6 board, Lysander will only need 3-4 turns intercept and kill Bjorn by running using my previous diagram.

Although you did make a fine diagram in paint, and I know you like your Lysander a lott Since you started this thread, Bjorn could outrun you on thet diagram as long as he moves faster, witch he does. He would not be standing in the corner but as you aproaches he will move away. Probably ron to the other table edge and shoot once or twice and run again.

and when they get into close combat Lysander only has an averedge chanche of 66% to get a singel roll on the damadge chart and then a 25,65% to kill Bjorn each round of combat. I have not calculated if you destroy his weaponds and imobelice him. Bjorn also pack 69% of a wound in the first round of combat and then 55,52 wounds each round of combat (with 4 attacks, no stuns, combat arm intact.)

I don't understand your logic. Assuming my diagram, and Bjorn goes for the other table edge, Lysander is still going to cut him off.

Assuming moving 6" and shooting while going for the opposite table edge, Lysander will intercept in 3.7 turns (assuming 6" +1d6 run, run averaging 3.5"). I don't know how to make it any clearer.

Once in close combat, Dreadnoughts suck in close combat against high str models (str 10 ap 1 is no exception). Stuns, weapon destroys, immobilizes cripples the dread early, and a single pen has a 50% chance to destroy (AP 1).

DarknessEternal wrote:

Zweischneid wrote:Calgar actually would win only if he played "dirty"

Your whole analysis is flawed. Lysander has 3 attacks.

And, you can only use God of War if Calgar looses combat. Anytime its a draw, or Calgar wins the combat, there is no moral check to make, so there is no chance of falling back. As such no shooting or recharge in attack bonus.

Niiai wrote:How on earth can he ignore bjorn? You mean start running and after a while he will have run faster then bjorn? I think bjorn runs a full 6 so on a whole he will be abel to follow and snipe at the same time. The bias of this thread is as I was told a 1 on 1 battle.

bjorn doesnt have time to shoot lysander to death. if bjorn tries to fight him in close combat lysander will almost certainly win. I dont think 6 turns of shooting followed up by a desperate assault is exactly what OP had in mind when he asked for opinions on killing lysander 1 on 1


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Niiai wrote:Hmmm...I am also pretty shure a thunder wolf lord with eternal warrior, thunderwolf, shield and ice sword, wolf tail talisman would be abel to do i macke him hit on 3+. True he has 1 wound less, but a litt more attacks. Also, his wolf companions count as wargear, so he has 6 attacks on the charge just there :-D

that certainly seems possible....


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Niiai wrote:Nah. Lysander vs bjorn, bjorn wins each time. Walk, Run, Walk, Shoot, repeat

well it was a cute idea. ok drop the 16 down to 14.5 I havent looked at the math but it doesnt really matter. drop it down to 10. the game doesnt last that long so its not going to work.


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scubasteve04 wrote:



Which I cannot calculate because I forgot Triginometry from high school (help here somebody?). Lysander would only have to move north or west 36" to cut off Bjorn, or if Bjorn stayed stationary in the corner Lysander would have 156" of movement before he lost all 4 wounds.

a2 + b2 = c2 right? the distance is just over 4 feet.

It's actually not that simple, as Bjorn won't necessarily move in the exact same direction every turn. Thus Lysander can't draw a straight vector to a theoretical end point exactly X movement phases away from Bjorn's starting point.

The path followed by Lysander would have to be more of a hyperbola, else Bjorn would simply 'juke him out'.

For example, first turn Lysander will want to move directly towards Bjorn. This because he doesn't know if Bjorn will walk left or right. Bjorn on his turn can go 6" in either direction, doesn't matter. On his second turn, however, Lysander can't do a 45 degree angle in the direction that Bjorne moved or B can just go right back the other way.

All in all, this probably buys Bjorne about 1 more turn of grace.

sourclams, only 1 turn? You have to remember that bjorn moves faster then lysander.

Anyway, any unit with a gun with some range and a jump pack can do this. A singel swooping hawk. Not to mention the phoenix lord Baharroth.

Or even a Tyranid hive tyrant with wings and a big gun. Or a Harpy! The Kiting possabilaties are endles.

SanguinaryGuard wrote:The Sanguinor might be able to best Lysander in CC. He gets 5 base attacks, +1 for having a two handed mastercrafted weapon. Also with Avenging Angel, it allows him to re-roll To Hits and To Wounds against an enemy HQ. If Lysanders on the field, im definetely using it on him. If he charges, FC bumps his St from 5 to 6. He also has Eternal Warrior meaning he wont die outright fron Instant Death. Also a 3+ Inv might help him brush off some Thammer hits. WS 8 and Init 6 (7 with FC) also means the Sanguinor hits Lysander easier than Lysander hits him. Though Lysanders St 10 is awesome, i must admit. Fearless allows the Sanguinor to remain in battle no matter how wounds are allocated.

I7 on the charge... I1 once Lysanders cracked his head with the his TH!

Niiai wrote:sourclams, only 1 turn? You have to remember that bjorn moves faster then lysander.

6" > 6+1d6"?

He is assuming you are as absolutely as far away from him as possible. Nothing with a 1 shot gun should kill Lysander, even if it hits 7 times.

I just dump him in a redeemer and seperate him from the terminator squad after I roll over the first obstacle.

Inquisitor_Syphonious wrote:Nothing with a 1 shot gun should kill Lysander, even if it hits 7 times.

Wraithguard with a wraithcannon. Mekboy with Shokk Attack Gun.

Touche!

In all fairness if the wraithguard doesn't get the 6 then he's splat!

Inquisitor_Syphonious wrote:Touche!

In all fairness if the wraithguard doesn't get the 6 then he's splat!

He's made of Wraithbone! He doesn't splat, he crumbles!

(Man, people complain about the Bloody Blood Angels of Blood, but I just talked about a Wraithguard made of Wraithbone with a Wraithcannon. )

Kiting is possible with something that moves more then 6" and shoots. Dreadnoughts can't kite.

Something like a Crisis suit can.