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if sending this to GW would make a difference id do it, but id bet my a** that theyd ignore it. But on the other hand, its nearly 500 complains at once....

MrMerlin wrote: its nearly 500 complains at once....

Most of the votes are not complaints.

While I do like 40k, I do not like Games Workshop. Any company that takes out loans to preserve its profit margin is being run into the ground.

I gave it a 6/10 because the prices are so damn high. About 50% higher than needed. How do i know? Because GW employees get 50% off all retail products, and any company that sells their product at a loss (with the exception of Sony) to their employees isn't smart.

DarknessEternal wrote:

MrMerlin wrote: its nearly 500 complains at once....

Most of the votes are not complaints.

well every guy voting 7 has some things bothering him right? Or else it would be 10

MrMerlin wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:

MrMerlin wrote: its nearly 500 complains at once....

Most of the votes are not complaints.

well every guy voting 7 has some things bothering him right? Or else it would be 10

If nothing else this poll proves that many people when asked to rate something out of 10 will vote 7.

I'm being serious here, we covered it in a stats lecture last year.

I really have a problem with the embargo to my country, and the prices, and the secrecy, and the ego of the company. I really have a problem with almost everything on GW, but damn, their products are incredible. And so, i give a 5...

I gave them an 8/10. I think my only gripe is with the White Dwarf. I think it was at its best in the late 90's. I would like to see them promote the hobby more by showing more kit bashing, conversions, how to's, campaigns, fun rules for "in house only" events, and battle reports. I miss the days when there would be a card building, new strategy cards, wargear cards, vehicle data faxes, etc in each white dward. Heck from time to time there were new templates, games, and other tid bits in the magazine. Thats what I miss about the magazine.

MrMerlin wrote:
well every guy voting 7 has some things bothering him right? Or else it would be 10

Not enough to matter. Businesses don't try to meet the exact demands of every customer, that's impossible.

The problem with GW games is that they are meant for fun, not competetive play.... but people do it anyway so whatever.


I go to tournaments in order to play cool new people and fight painted WYSIWYG armies (which doesn't happen normally ha ha).

With that in mind, the prices are geting random. Most people will complain about them being high in general, but I think that's just a base few with out looking at the models as a whole. Some units are 10 bucks for a 250 point model, and other are 24 bucks for a 21 point model (chaos daemon changling).

And yes, WD used to be the gak ha ha... now I just go into the store and "read" (meaning look at the new models comming out) before I buy something. Not worth the cash anymore, which is sad, as I used to love them.

I think a lot of the older oop games are still alot of fun but could use a minor update.... which as lazy as most gamers are, you can just do it yourself.

The hobby, novels, and the great people I have met due to the hobby of Games workshop has more then made up for it's short comings though. Most of my best friends I have met from the game, and all the mega D bags I have met along the way have been funny as hell (I watched a guy throw a blood thirster through a wall once hahahaha). 8-10

theblessing8386 wrote:The problem with GW games is that they are meant for fun, not competetive play.... but people do it anyway so whatever.

I don't see why that should be an excuse for poor editing or how they seem to keep writing rules without reference to the core process.

It's meant to be a social game so even if played for fun, the rules should be well tested and edited to facilitate more time playing the game and making pew-pew noises and less time negotiating the rules before or during the game if you're playing pick-ups with people you don't know.

I would score GW 10/10

The company does what it does. As a customer you either accept that fact or you don't and go elsewhere.

In todays market, it doesn't make any sense (and you can argue till you're blue in the face) why anyone would have any score below 10?!? It's not like you're forced to use GW as an outlet for your hobby; yes, all your friends play, and yes, it's the only company that provides you a location to play at....blah, blah, but it's still your choice.

To complain about something while handing over your money with half mumbled regret and self soothing "logic" behind WHY you MUST spend your money at GW is borderline insanity.....seek help

Delephont wrote:
In todays market, it doesn't make any sense (and you can argue till you're blue in the face) why anyone would have any score below 10?!? It's not like you're forced to use GW as an outlet for your hobby; yes, all your friends play, and yes, it's the only company that provides you a location to play at....blah, blah, but it's still your choice.

To complain about something while handing over your money with half mumbled regret and self soothing "logic" behind WHY you MUST spend your money at GW is borderline insanity.....seek help

That is the most ******** piece of "logic" that I've read in a long time...

So someone can't like the games but dislike the company that produces them? If you like the 40k background and wish to buy some novels to enjoy it you automatically have to rate GW a 10?

Hell, I wouldn't rate any company in the miniature wargaming hobby as a 10/10, every single one of them, be it PP, BF, CB, has something that I don't like, does that mean that I should put all my miniatures in the trash instead of enjoying the parts of the hobby that I like?

3/10. I love the universe, it is just that the company is getting lazy. I find myself just not bothering to play the game with the current codex power creep.

7/10
I do admit games workshop has its flaws...but I do really love their miniatures and simply fantastic customer service.
White dwarf in my opinion was ok in this period of time...but lately the past few issues have just been full of LOOK HAOW AWESHUM THISH IS BY EET BY EET! (the dreadfleet one in particular, any page not about dreadfleet was advertising something else...)

So yeah 7/10 for me, white dwarf is shining its shiny thing sin my face without any actual depth or general attention from me. hope the tidal wave of gak in WD will go away soon D:


Automatically Appended Next Post:

madman12367 wrote:7/10 i said this because, -2 for the prices -1 for the strict rules in many of the shops i have been in, say, no drinks, no food, no sitting, no 'off topic' convosation off warhammer

WoW your shop owners cruel. In my local hobby...place, (which is a games workshop) We talk about other things just as much as we talk about warhammer, plus I got a milkshake in there a few times along with other foodstuffs, thats just your store mate, not GW

PhantomViper wrote:does that mean that I should put all my miniatures in the trash instead of enjoying the parts of the hobby that I like?

Apparently, yeah. If you don't think any company you buy products from is fething perfect then you should just stop buying and enjoying those products.

About the only good things about gw are the background and even that is standard sci-fi stuff and the mini's
GW mini's i can take or leave. There was some post in the painting and modelling section where a guy showed a 5 man squad of old marines and i was pleasantly surprised to see that they actually looked good, so clean looking ( the lack of skulls and purity seal band aids was great to see). I think when it comes to mini's less is definately more, i think that must be the reason i like PP models.

I still find it bizarre that alot of people admit that GW games are so-so, yet play these games like there is no other alternative. Take the leap people, it isn't really that scary.
The expense of gw gaming is truly insane. Instead of staying where its safe and rolling a , try new systems and roll a

PhantomViper wrote:So someone can't like the games but dislike the company that produces them? If you like the 40k background and wish to buy some novels to enjoy it you automatically have to rate GW a 10?

Hell, I wouldn't rate any company in the miniature wargaming hobby as a 10/10, every single one of them, be it PP, BF, CB, has something that I don't like, does that mean that I should put all my miniatures in the trash instead of enjoying the parts of the hobby that I like?

This "supposed" split between a company and it's product is totally bogus. I'd draw your attention to the internet crazyness surrounding Mr. Ward. Surely the companys impact on the final product is directly affected by their drive and direction.....I've heard the argument that liking WH40K =/= like GW.....however, from any point of view the two are intertwined in every way.

How can you play WH40K without encountering GW's pricing? How can you read the fluff without encountering GW advertising slant? How can you enjoy the miniatures without traversing GW's attitude towards material selection and manufacturing techniques? (Finecast anyone?)

And yet.....here we are, caught in this love / hate relationship that so many would refuse exists?

Of course, it's easy to say you enjoy something but aspects of it really hack you off......but to be fair, who cares? the end effect....the hollow ring of the cash register, as your hard earn penny changes hand with the blue bedecked GW employee, says everything no internet poll can convey.

Call my logic fuzzy if you will.

Delephont wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:So someone can't like the games but dislike the company that produces them? If you like the 40k background and wish to buy some novels to enjoy it you automatically have to rate GW a 10?

Hell, I wouldn't rate any company in the miniature wargaming hobby as a 10/10, every single one of them, be it PP, BF, CB, has something that I don't like, does that mean that I should put all my miniatures in the trash instead of enjoying the parts of the hobby that I like?

This "supposed" split between a company and it's product is totally bogus. I'd draw your attention to the internet crazyness surrounding Mr. Ward. Surely the companys impact on the final product is directly affected by their drive and direction.....I've heard the argument that liking WH40K =/= like GW.....however, from any point of view the two are intertwined in every way.

How can you play WH40K without encountering GW's pricing? How can you read the fluff without encountering GW advertising slant? How can you enjoy the miniatures without traversing GW's attitude towards material selection and manufacturing techniques? (Finecast anyone?)

And yet.....here we are, caught in this love / hate relationship that so many would refuse exists?

Of course, it's easy to say you enjoy something but aspects of it really hack you off......but to be fair, who cares? the end effect....the hollow ring of the cash register, as your hard earn penny changes hand with the blue bedecked GW employee, says everything no internet poll can convey.

Call my logic fuzzy if you will.

I go out of my way to avoid buying anything from GW. Almost everything I have has been constructed second hand, and I have A LOT of stuff. WH40k is a pretty good game and I enjoy it. GW is a horrible company and I despise it and the way they do "business". It's really that simple and easy.

JB_Man wrote:
I go out of my way to avoid buying anything from GW. Almost everything I have has been constructed second hand, and I have A LOT of stuff. WH40k is a pretty good game and I enjoy it. GW is a horrible company and I despise it and the way they do "business". It's really that simple and easy.

It's simple because you haven't grasped my point. The company products = the company, without the company there are no products, and vice versa.

How this isn't obvious is beyond me? Do you think there are little big eared men who work in a barn off the coast of England that make Space Marines so cool? All the great advertising that gets you salivating over the latest WH40K release is not created in a vacuum, it's produced by the same people who decide to hike prices, ban sales in certain countries by online retailers, and kill off metal production in place of Finecast.

This is the funny point, all of the individuals and departments in GW that make the game the thing you love are also the individuals and departments that make the decisions you hate.

Ying and Yang.....you can't have one without the other.

Delephont wrote:

JB_Man wrote:
I go out of my way to avoid buying anything from GW. Almost everything I have has been constructed second hand, and I have A LOT of stuff. WH40k is a pretty good game and I enjoy it. GW is a horrible company and I despise it and the way they do "business". It's really that simple and easy.

It's simple because you haven't grasped my point. The company products = the company, without the company there are no products, and vice versa.

How this isn't obvious is beyond me? Do you think there are little big eared men who work in a barn off the coast of England that make Space Marines so cool? All the great advertising that gets you salivating over the latest WH40K release is not created in a vacuum, it's produced by the same people who decide to hike prices, ban sales in certain countries by online retailers, and kill off metal production in place of Finecast.

This is the funny point, all of the individuals and departments in GW that make the game the thing you love are also the individuals and departments that make the decisions you hate.

Ying and Yang.....you can't have one without the other.

A company and it's products are not the same. A company is an entity with an identity. It makes business decisions. It's chooses to triple prices, limit exports, attempt to kill internet business, and go sue-happy on anything and anyone. Plastic soldiers make none of these decisions. They have no desire to make a profit. They have no motive. They are either plastic soldiers you like or don't like.

I don't even understand why this warrants discussion.

Delephont wrote:

JB_Man wrote:
I go out of my way to avoid buying anything from GW. Almost everything I have has been constructed second hand, and I have A LOT of stuff. WH40k is a pretty good game and I enjoy it. GW is a horrible company and I despise it and the way they do "business". It's really that simple and easy.

It's simple because you haven't grasped my point. The company products = the company, without the company there are no products, and vice versa.

How this isn't obvious is beyond me? Do you think there are little big eared men who work in a barn off the coast of England that make Space Marines so cool? All the great advertising that gets you salivating over the latest WH40K release is not created in a vacuum, it's produced by the same people who decide to hike prices, ban sales in certain countries by online retailers, and kill off metal production in place of Finecast.

This is the funny point, all of the individuals and departments in GW that make the game the thing you love are also the individuals and departments that make the decisions you hate.

Ying and Yang.....you can't have one without the other.

That logic is wrong on so many levels that I can't even begin to argue against it...

You are saying that it is the creative department that decides the price hikes? That the guys that write the codices are the ones that decided to embargo Australia?

The company is the sum of all its parts, but just because you love some part of it, doesn't mean that you have to love the entire company, do you understand this concept?

Hell, even inside the development deparment I hate everything made by Matt Ward but I love Robin Cruddace's work. And both those things have some influence in my overall opinion of the company but I don't have to hate the company just because I hate some parts of it any more than I have to think that GW is perfect just because I enjoy playing 40K...

Ok my two pence. Take the company and the products away and 40k still exists, the universe and what makes 40k great were created way before the company itself took a wrong turn. Its quite easy to love the concepts without ever having to go anywhere near GW. I am part of a fairly large group of 2nd ed players that having been doing just that for almost 15 years.

PhantomViper wrote:That logic is wrong on so many levels that I can't even begin to argue against it...

You are saying that it is the creative department that decides the price hikes? That the guys that write the codices are the ones that decided to embargo Australia?

The company is the sum of all its parts, but just because you love some part of it, doesn't mean that you have to love the entire company, do you understand this concept?

Hell, even inside the development deparment I hate everything made by Matt Ward but I love Robin Cruddace's work. And both those things have some influence in my overall opinion of the company but I don't have to hate the company just because I hate some parts of it any more than I have to think that GW is perfect just because I enjoy playing 40K...

I agree.

Let me put my point another way.....to get to the diamond, you need to wade through a ton of S$%*, add to that the fact, that ton of S$%* has the potential to define / destroy / affect the diamond in some way.

By supporting the diamond you're also propping up the S$%*, so end effect, as long as you're willing to wade through the muck to get that diamond, you're a grown-up (I assume) and you know what's what, why go on complaining about it?

Either the S$%* aint so bad so you'll carry on scrambling around in it, or it's so bad that you'll give up and seek another diamond elsewhere.

Delephont wrote:
I agree.

Let me put my point another way.....to get to the diamond, you need to wade through a ton of S$%*, add to that the fact, that ton of S$%* has the potential to define / destroy / affect the diamond in some way.

By supporting the diamond you're also propping up the S$%*, so end effect, as long as you're willing to wade through the muck to get that diamond, you're a grown-up (I assume) and you know what's what, why go on complaining about it?

Either the S$%* aint so bad so you'll carry on scrambling around in it, or it's so bad that you'll give up and seek another diamond elsewhere.

Ok, now I understand what you are saying.

Well, I don't support them in the way that I don't buy stuff from GW anymore. You could say that I generate free publicity for them by playing their games in a public venue but that is as far as my (current), support for them goes and I think I've balanced that by selling all of my old WHFB and 40K armies and thus impacting on their sales of new models...

Delephont wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:So someone can't like the games but dislike the company that produces them? If you like the 40k background and wish to buy some novels to enjoy it you automatically have to rate GW a 10?

Hell, I wouldn't rate any company in the miniature wargaming hobby as a 10/10, every single one of them, be it PP, BF, CB, has something that I don't like, does that mean that I should put all my miniatures in the trash instead of enjoying the parts of the hobby that I like?

This "supposed" split between a company and it's product is totally bogus. I'd draw your attention to the internet crazyness surrounding Mr. Ward. Surely the companys impact on the final product is directly affected by their drive and direction.....I've heard the argument that liking WH40K =/= like GW.....however, from any point of view the two are intertwined in every way.

How can you play WH40K without encountering GW's pricing? How can you read the fluff without encountering GW advertising slant? How can you enjoy the miniatures without traversing GW's attitude towards material selection and manufacturing techniques? (Finecast anyone?)

And yet.....here we are, caught in this love / hate relationship that so many would refuse exists?

Of course, it's easy to say you enjoy something but aspects of it really hack you off......but to be fair, who cares? the end effect....the hollow ring of the cash register, as your hard earn penny changes hand with the blue bedecked GW employee, says everything no internet poll can convey.

Call my logic fuzzy if you will.

Lets compare *GW-products* and *Gw-sales management* with "wife" and "mother in law". You can love the first one and still hate the second.

MrMerlin wrote:
Lets compare *GW-products* and *Gw-sales management* with "wife" and "mother in law". You can love the first one and still hate the second.

Nice.

There is a difference though! One would hope that your Mother in Law doesn't re-define your wife every five - six years.

If that were the case, you've either got to start loving the Mother in Law or ditch them both.

7-8ish

Love the product, hate the price.

7/10, love the 40k universe, but those prices and my DA...err...

Since we are going into familly comparisons lets just say GW is that old college sweetheart you used to have a good time with but she never really keep up with the times and her head still stuck in the past... I mean today you would meet her and have a good night for old times sake but your having much more fun with the modern chicks out there. Do you hater her? Nah we old farts do respect the past... even if she's a 6 today you still have a bit of fun with her. Dont hate just spread the love.

I voted 6/10... a month ago it would have been 4 or 5

My reasoning... I love their sculpts, even if for marines Scibor does better. I love most of their terrain, even if they're getting stupidly skull-happy. Finecast seems to be getting straightened out, though the first piece I saw was terrible.

What I don't like - price increases. That said, my objection to that decreased somewhat when I got to visit Warhammer World. There were a lot of nice, if not amazing, cars in their lot and the employees seemed genuinely happy. To me, that increases customer loyalty - I like dealing with companies that seem to treat employees well.

Other things I'm not a fan of - super-secret-squirrel marketing campaigns... lack of support for their own products... and most particularly their take on IP, considering that an awful lot of their universe is borrowed or directly stolen.