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2011/12/14 15:02:00
Subject: Pakistan advises they will now shoot down US drones in their airspace
Nuke rounds can go as low as a 155mm arty shell. 1KM kill zone and a clean fallout. its not something that would get fired all the time...well maybe when alien robots land but you know what I mean
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
2011/12/14 15:06:44
Subject: Pakistan advises they will now shoot down US drones in their airspace
ParatrooperSimon wrote: And why the hell are drones inside Pakistan air space anyways.
I believe that it's called "taking off" and "landing" since they were based there. There has been a US air presense based in Pakistan for 10 years, its not like they showed up there overnight.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamsi_Airfield
I seriously cant wait for the states to start an act of agression on the Pakistanies. The Americans really need to be put in their place and finally relise what their place in the world is. They are not on top anyone more. I'm talking about Pakistan dealing with them. I'm talking about the Chinese.
Oh look it's Paratrooper Simon from New Zealand telling us about America's place in the world. Perhaps you should concern yourself with more domestic concerns.
Avatar 720 wrote: You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
2011/12/14 15:10:22
Subject: Pakistan advises they will now shoot down US drones in their airspace
ParatrooperSimon wrote: And why the hell are drones inside Pakistan air space anyways.
I believe that it's called "taking off" and "landing" since they were based there. There has been a US air presense based in Pakistan for 10 years, its not like they showed up there overnight.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamsi_Airfield
I seriously cant wait for the states to start an act of agression on the Pakistanies. The Americans really need to be put in their place and finally relise what their place in the world is. They are not on top anyone more. I'm talking about Pakistan dealing with them. I'm talking about the Chinese.
Oh look it's Paratrooper Simon from New Zealand telling us about America's place in the world. Perhaps you should concern yourself with more domestic concerns.
hey don't mess with New Zealand. Those sheep look cute, stupid, and smelly but...
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2011/12/14 15:26:07
Subject: Pakistan advises they will now shoot down US drones in their airspace
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
2011/12/14 15:28:28
Subject: Re:Pakistan advises they will now shoot down US drones in their airspace
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
2011/12/14 15:29:47
Subject: Pakistan advises they will now shoot down US drones in their airspace
Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters..
2011/12/14 15:53:52
Subject: Pakistan advises they will now shoot down US drones in their airspace
Castiel wrote:Watching the colonies fight is fun, but I feel I should do the responsible thing as someone from your parent nations and break it up.
We're not Scots
You might not be, but half of your lot claim to be, so I feel the comment still stands. Or I can go british for a while, if you like?
Spain and France would disagree about you being the parent. As the 13 colonies is just a tick's butt bit of the total continental space, they'd be right.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/14 15:54:15
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
2011/12/14 15:55:04
Subject: Pakistan advises they will now shoot down US drones in their airspace
Castiel wrote:Watching the colonies fight is fun, but I feel I should do the responsible thing as someone from your parent nations and break it up.
We're not Scots
You might not be, but half of your lot claim to be, so I feel the comment still stands. Or I can go british for a while, if you like?
Spain and France would disagree about you being the parent. As the 13 colonies is just a tick's butt bit of the total continental space, they'd be right.
Castiel wrote:Watching the colonies fight is fun, but I feel I should do the responsible thing as someone from your parent nations and break it up.
We're not Scots
You might not be, but half of your lot claim to be, so I feel the comment still stands. Or I can go british for a while, if you like?
Spain and France would disagree about you being the parent. As the 13 colonies is just a tick's butt bit of the total continental space, they'd be right.
Fine, I'm also European, so I can still use this!
Cunning
"How do you feel when you have killed a man?"
"Quite jolly, what about you?"
Sir Richard Burton, when asked by a disapproving doctor.
Polonius wrote:Also, GW products aren't movies. They can't be "spoiled."
I suppose the surprise can be spoiled, but still, nobody is paying for the surprise.
Like any responsible adult I have a Five Year Plan. It culminates in me becoming Batman.
A trail for Bin Laden would have been pointless. The man would have just used it as a platform to turn himself into a bigger martyr and preach his rhetoric. Killing him is strategically much more sensible than a trial. Besides, what's there to prove? Everyone knows he did it and he admits he did it. Man would have gotten a death sentence anyway.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/12/14 23:17:27
Prestor Jon wrote: Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent.
0023/12/14 23:49:40
Subject: Pakistan advises they will now shoot down US drones in their airspace
Lux_Lucis wrote:Wasn't Bin Laden unarmed when they found him?
Yes, just like the people in the towers...
So your argument is that because he did it, it's alright to do it back? The US basis its foreign policy on nursery aged politics?
Shooting unarmed people is just wrong. I can't see how a country that believes in the rule of law can justify that. Arrest him, haul him in front of a court and then no doubt he would have been executed anyway, but at least due process would have been observed.
"How do you feel when you have killed a man?"
"Quite jolly, what about you?"
Sir Richard Burton, when asked by a disapproving doctor.
Polonius wrote:Also, GW products aren't movies. They can't be "spoiled."
I suppose the surprise can be spoiled, but still, nobody is paying for the surprise.
Like any responsible adult I have a Five Year Plan. It culminates in me becoming Batman.
Lux_Lucis wrote:Wasn't Bin Laden unarmed when they found him?
Yes, just like the people in the towers...
So your argument is that because he did it, it's alright to do it back? The US basis its foreign policy on nursery aged politics?
Shooting unarmed people is just wrong. I can't see how a country that believes in the rule of law can justify that. Arrest him, haul him in front of a court and then no doubt he would have been executed anyway, but at least due process would have been observed.
Maybe you could write letter to someone and let them know how you feel...
So your argument is that because he did it, it's alright to do it back? The US basis its foreign policy on nursery aged politics?
Shooting unarmed people is just wrong. I can't see how a country that believes in the rule of law can justify that. Arrest him, haul him in front of a court and then no doubt he would have been executed anyway, but at least due process would have been observed.
I had no issue shooting down a couple insurgents that were unarmed.....it was one big IED they were putting in a culvert.....they're security though we caught were armed. They fell under lawful combatant. Same as Osama
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
2011/12/15 01:01:52
Subject: Pakistan advises they will now shoot down US drones in their airspace
ROE's a bit different in that case surely though? They're laying an IED which is obviously a threat, and Osama was an old bloke who was standing there.
"How do you feel when you have killed a man?"
"Quite jolly, what about you?"
Sir Richard Burton, when asked by a disapproving doctor.
Polonius wrote:Also, GW products aren't movies. They can't be "spoiled."
I suppose the surprise can be spoiled, but still, nobody is paying for the surprise.
Like any responsible adult I have a Five Year Plan. It culminates in me becoming Batman.
Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.
Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha
2011/12/15 01:08:13
Subject: Pakistan advises they will now shoot down US drones in their airspace
If I remember correctly, he made for a gun, though the only time they're not allowed to shoot to kill is if he's visibly surrendering to the troops, which he wasn't.
Guardsmen, Fire! ...Feth yeah!
2011/12/15 01:23:58
Subject: Pakistan advises they will now shoot down US drones in their airspace
moom241 wrote:If I remember correctly, he made for a gun, though the only time they're not allowed to shoot to kill is if he's visibly surrendering to the troops, which he wasn't.
Well that's fair then, I thought he'd just been shot straight away kind of thing while he was standing there. I certainly would have shot him then. I withdraw that objection.
"How do you feel when you have killed a man?"
"Quite jolly, what about you?"
Sir Richard Burton, when asked by a disapproving doctor.
Polonius wrote:Also, GW products aren't movies. They can't be "spoiled."
I suppose the surprise can be spoiled, but still, nobody is paying for the surprise.
Like any responsible adult I have a Five Year Plan. It culminates in me becoming Batman.
Lux_Lucis wrote:ROE's a bit different in that case surely though? They're laying an IED which is obviously a threat, and Osama was an old bloke who was standing there.
Standing behind 2 women from some reports or assuming a posture that may lead one to believe he had a weapon by others. A tier 1 professional soldier assessed the threat upon breaching a darkened room and took action. We now have the privilege of hindsight, but in that 2-3 seconds that the assault into that room entailed, the Seal had no idea if the partially obscured OBL was pulling a pin on a grenade, pulling out a weapon or any other myriad tool that could threaten the life of the shooter or his team. All indicators, as said by OBL himself, were that he would take as many Americans down with him if they ever came close to capturing him. Completely justified kill. And I don't mean that in the sense that he was a bad dude that needed to be killed outright (although I personaly believe that) , but in a tactical sense. In such a situation life and death is hearbeats away and the Seal member acted accordingly. It was a tactical op, not an execution.
"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
2011/12/15 01:32:34
Subject: Pakistan advises they will now shoot down US drones in their airspace
Lux_Lucis wrote:ROE's a bit different in that case surely though? They're laying an IED which is obviously a threat, and Osama was an old bloke who was standing there.
Standing behind 2 women from some reports or assuming a posture that may lead one to believe he had a weapon by others. A tier 1 professional soldier assessed the threat upon breaching a darkened room and took action. We now have the privilege of hindsight, but in that 2-3 seconds that the assault into that room entailed, the Seal had no idea if the partially obscured OBL was pulling a pin on a grenade, pulling out a weapon or any other myriad tool that could threaten the life of the shooter or his team. All indicators, as said by OBL himself, were that he would take as many Americans down with him if they ever came close to capturing him. Completely justified kill. And I don't mean that in the sense that he was a bad dude that needed to be killed outright (although I personaly believe that) , but in a tactical sense. In such a situation life and death is hearbeats away and the Seal member acted accordingly. It was a tactical op, not an execution.
I agree, like I said I thought he was just standing there.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/03/26 14:49:31
"How do you feel when you have killed a man?"
"Quite jolly, what about you?"
Sir Richard Burton, when asked by a disapproving doctor.
Polonius wrote:Also, GW products aren't movies. They can't be "spoiled."
I suppose the surprise can be spoiled, but still, nobody is paying for the surprise.
Like any responsible adult I have a Five Year Plan. It culminates in me becoming Batman.
LordofHats wrote:A trail for Bin Laden would have been pointless. The man would have just used it as a platform to turn himself into a bigger martyr and preach his rhetoric. Killing him is strategically much more sensible than a trial. Besides, what's there to prove? Everyone knows he did it and he admits he did it. Man would have gotten a death sentence anyway.
Why did we bother trying the Nazis are Nurenburg, then?
A trial demonstrates the strength and value of Western-style justice and rule of law. It demonstrates that we believe in doing the right thing and exercising due process even in when it's hard and in the extreme cases. Those are the times it's most important to upgold our own rules. To demonstrate that as civilized people, we can sublimate our passion and desire for revenge in favor of organized and methodical justice. If he ranted with hateful rhetoric, that just makes our point the stronger. Saddam tried some of that. How'd that work out for him?
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dogma wrote:Among other, Western, nations that already bow to the US. I don't expect that Islamic militants, given their stance on martyrdom, have been dissuaded by bin Laden's death.
Sure, but Western nations aren't the only ones that matter.
Nor are Western nations purely hiveminds that follow the decision made by their governments. At a governmental level Australia right now is attached at the hip to anything the US does, but at the business level we look more and more to China and the rest of Asia.
Now, Osama living or dead isn't going to switch a sound business decision from one company to another, but economics is a game played on the margins.
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
