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 Lamby wrote:
Dr H - the pimping on the Wave Serpent is excellent... and that pilot is cool!

Loving the madness!

Thanks Lamby, glad you like it and welcome.

In other news; I'm playing about with making domes. The decision now is... How big?
May have something to show later.

Ok, following on from the dome idea, how large should the domes be?

Is it...

*Bear in mind I'm only planning on putting domes in the first two sections*
I tried to be clever with making these by using a small ring of plastic and filling it with putty. I may not bother with this method again though.

Option 1: Small (or smaller?). These will likely be two rows of 4 domes (or 4 with 3 behind and offset).
Quite tricky to make these at this size, but not impossible.

Option 2: Slightly larger. This one is a half sphere that I had laying about after a concept for something else. This size would probably work for 5 domes per section (as in the previous mock-ups).

Option 3: Medium (well, I was aiming for medium, but putting them on the model they turned out larger than expected). Probably could only have 3 per section.

Option 4: Large. These would only be 2 per section.

Opinions and ideas welcome. What do you think?

I say option 1.

Going bigger draws the eye to something that looks (to me) disproportional to the rest of the model. Also, have you considered stick-on beads from a craft store? Cheating a bit, but would be perfectly symmetrical.

 Skalk Bloodaxe wrote:
I say option 1.

Going bigger draws the eye to something that looks (to me) disproportional to the rest of the model. Also, have you considered stick-on beads from a craft store? Cheating a bit, but would be perfectly symmetrical.

Ah Ha. Good to get an opinion. Thanks Skalk.

Option 1, you say...
Well I have made a few (read; about 30) domes that are roughly the size of option 2. But they are not all the same size and some need a little tidying up which will change their size to a certain extent. All this means one of a few different things:
1) I thought that I could use them with the smaller (closer to option 1 size) ones nearer the front and getting bigger towards the back...or,
2) Just pick out the majority of similar/same sized domes and just use them...or,
3) Make smaller ones...

*Brainwave* Just had an idea, this would be good practise for press moulding... now there's a thought.

There has indeed been a bead-flavoured idea floated about these parts as I'm led to believe that there are some (possibly whole spheres) laying about the house... Couple that with the press moulding and I can choose whatever size I like AND make as many as I like...
Cheers Skalk. I shall now go and search the house for bead-shaped objects...

While I think about it, a little update on the domes.

The press-moulding appears to be working well.


I started to look for beads, then expanded the search to anything spherical and while I was looking I came across a small LED I had saved for some future, as yet undecided, use and I had an idea: While pressing a sphere into the putty to make the mould would make a nice impression it would be very difficult to remove the bead from the hole without damaging the edges, however an LED had a nice domed top and would give an equally good impression AND be easy to remove due to the wires.

So the putty was flattened out, the LED was pressed into the putty...and I noticed that I was trying to squeeze too many holes into the mould as they were affecting each other and some cracks were occurring (a problem that is specific to milliput and not GS)...
So, I tried again, the putty was flattened out, the LED was pressed in (further apart) and the mould was ready (with only one questionable hole, top right, bit near the edge). Once that had set I lubricated the mould (with baby oil as it was the nearest and least viscous lubricant to me at the time) and then pressed small sausages of putty into the holes (so as to let the excess lubricant escape, hence low viscosity ), with enough left out the top of the hole and once they were all filled I carefully removed the (now) domes, put them to one side and pressed more into the holes until I ran out of the putty I had mixed.
I did another lot this morning and once they are set I'll clean the lot with soapy water and then look at tidying up the rough bottoms, bit of sanding, and then can look at what is best for the Wave serpent.

You can also see in the picture the domes I made by hand next to some of the moulded ones... and the mess I make when using milliput...

More updates soon(ish).

Dr H -maybe try about 3rd Greenstuff with two 3rds milliput, and make a small mould with Lego (or a small tupperware container) to hold the press mould, you'll probably find the cracking and spreading will be less.

Otherwise, the circuit idea is cool - what are you going to use to connect the domes with, brass strip or plasticard?

 Lamby wrote:
Dr H -maybe try about 3rd Greenstuff with two 3rds milliput, and make a small mould with Lego (or a small tupperware container) to hold the press mould, you'll probably find the cracking and spreading will be less.

Two good ideas. Thanks.
Don't actually have any GS at the moment as this milliput is my first putty experience. Might get some if I see some about for cheap.
Containing the mould is definitely something I will remember for the future, makes a lot of sense.
I did expect the cracking and spreading so at least it wasn't a shock.

Otherwise, the circuit idea is cool - what are you going to use to connect the domes with, brass strip or plasticard?

Thanks.
I'm not sure yet. I had considered just painting the circuit on after everything else.

I'm working on the cheap at the moment as I am one of the many unemployed, so can't really fork out for much (hence lots of recycling going on).
But thin strips of plastic (or card) may be something to try if I can cut strips as thin as I want. I have some thin copper wire (from a motor), as seen on the engines, but I don't really want to use that for this application as I want it to look like a circuit-board with flat tracks not rounded or too thick or prominent on the surface.

That is the next thing to consider, once I'm happy with these domes...

36...36 ... Count them... 36 little domes. That I have just fashioned from 36 little fried egg shapes and sanded smooth to make 36 2mm domes. The tip of my finger is red raw.... The things we do for a hobby.



So, the domes are done. Will assess them for suitability (as some are not quite as good as others) and then play about with positioning and see from there.

Laters

It might be a little late since you put the effort into these already, but I picked these little buggers up at michaels on Monday this week. They are little letters made out of 1.5-2mm jewel bead domes. Just pull them of the backing with needle nose pliers touch the back with glue and place. You get consistent shaped rivets out of them. They come in different sizes too. These might work better for you.

I know the feeling of being unemployed, seems lot of the dakka crew are up the same sump creek. The little jewel packs are bout $3-4 and have tons on a sheet.

Thanks Theo' I saw them on your blog when you got them. I'll keep an eye out for something similar when I'm in a shop.

I wanted at least a full half sphere for these domes and some of those stick on beads etc. are not. But will keep them in mind for future use.
These domes have actually turned out more LED-shaped (strangely enough). I could sand them down to half spheres or I may even keep them as metallic/glass valve like things. Very steampunk to go with the cyberpunk circuits...

Yeah, unemployment is a blessing and a curse for hobbies; more time to do, less money to fund...

So the domes are cleaned (mostly) and sorted into two groups (slightly smaller and slightly larger with probably 15 seconds sanding between them).

This is two possible arrangements for the domes.
You'll have to ignore the dots that make them look like goggly-eyes and imagine the circuit tracks between them.

I'm leaning towards 5 per section as that'll give me space between for the tracks. Or maybe only 4 (lose the rear dome on each section) .

I've also had an idea of maybe adding the odd electric arc using wire...

May the Fourth be with you.

I might suggest even fewer like three per section because if you add your wires you'll be really crammed in there.

 Theophony wrote:
I might suggest even fewer like three per section because if you add your wires you'll be really crammed in there.

Yeah, maybe three would be good, Thanks.

I've just decided that I want them to be more dome-like and less LED-like in shape and have found a good way of sanding the bottoms without sanding my finger (They fit nicely into the top of an empty biro). This should also mean uniformity will prevail.
The sides (and I do realise that they are not all that smooth at the moment) will be neatened up once I've stuck on whichever ones I am sticking on onto the surface, as it'll be easier then.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Like this...

I may add one towards the tip.

I like this circuit idea, it's coming together very nicely! I might have missed it but what's the plans for painting this bad boy?

 Casey's Law wrote:
I like this circuit idea, it's coming together very nicely! I might have missed it but what's the plans for painting this bad boy?

Lo C's Law. Thanks.

You've not missed it...
The plan is...I don't really know. Well I haven't decided as yet. I've had a few thoughts towards it so far and they are:
a)I've decided that most of the vehicles for this army are going to have been re-painted after The Scientist has repaired/re-worked them. In other words, I'm leaving myself free to paint the vehicles any way I like without having to stick to craftworld/chapter/etc. colours. They may still be (or have elements of) the "original" colours, they may not. Weathering and battle damage are still likely.

b)I'm going to have to really push the boat out on the wave serpent to match the effort put into the modelling.

c)I'm thinking of a fade from light at the front to dark at the back. But I'm not decided on what colours will be involved... The only colour idea I've written down so far is light blue (almost white) to dark purple. That's not set in stone though and I have no idea of what colour to do the underside.
Edit: and bare in mind that I don't have a working airbrush and will be doing this with a paintbrush.

d)It's also tempting to try some kind of pattern/template/reverse fade shape/design/thing... on it as I picked up some modelling masking tape a little while ago for the purpose of masking shapes and patterns on large areas. What shape that will take is anybodies guess...

Other than that... I don't know really / I'll worry about it when I get there...

Edit2: Any ideas from anybody are welcome.

Interesting ideas, I don't have any suggestions myself but I'm interested to see what you decide on.

 Casey's Law wrote:
Interesting ideas, I don't have any suggestions myself but I'm interested to see what you decide on.

Thanks. So am I

These domes have slowed me down a bit recently but now they are done I'll be picking up the pace again.
Next up is looking at the possible circuit cables/tracks modelling...

Updates soon(ish).

If your wanting raised detail, I got a spool if thin craft wire for a few bucks at the hobby store. Not sure how to adhere it without leaving globs underneath.

 Theophony wrote:
If your wanting raised detail, I got a spool if thin craft wire for a few bucks at the hobby store. Not sure how to adhere it without leaving globs underneath.

Yeah, I'm not sure how raised I want the tracks. I have got some really thin wire that was the windings in an old motor that I disassembled, it's about as thin as 5A fuse wire and I've got miles of the stuff. I attached that to the engines and the inside of the cabin with superglue (the runny stuff) without leaving any obvious glue blobs.

It comes down to three options really:
I use the thin wire and lay it out in a circuit pattern. It can be done reasonably easily, but on this scale they are still quite thick for circuit tracks.

Or I use thin plastic/card that I cut to shape and lay down. Will be more difficult as I will need to be really neat and accurate with my cutting, but will give nice flat circuit tracks.

Or I just paint them on at the very end. This could be tricky as well as it requires me to paint with a very steady hand and run the risk of messing up the (possibly difficult and awesome) paint-job on the hull. Although I'm just as likely to make a mess if I'm painting actual thin wires or pieces of card as I am if I'm just painting the lines (done it before, will do it again. I'm always touching things up as I "splash" paint about).

If you look at any circuits the tracks are pretty much flush to the surface (as they are very thin and the whole thing is coated for protection), so just painting them on is just as realistic. But I will see what I can do with wire/plastic/card before deciding on that. I may even end up using a combination of all three.

I'm currently drawing up some ideas on the circuit design, to scale. Trying to get the balance right between looking functional and covering the whole thing in cables (aka. too much). I may post them up here when I've done a few and see what people think.

Circuit track concepts.

Very quick and dirty drawings. Lines will be cleaner and straighter when done on the model. This is just to get the idea across.

To start with, three domes per section seem to be a good limit as just adding one more increases the wires needed by quite a bit.

So, from the left:
1. The red arrow at the top indicates a control/power box that I felt was necessary as a focal point for the wires to join to. Also note the single extra dome at the tip of the "wing". Large dots represent the domes and should be obvious. Small dots are either contacts to internal cables/electronics or are sensors to aid functionality of the forcefield thing (when positioned at the edges of the "wings").
This concept shows each dome or sensor attached back to the control box by an obvious, continual, individual track. As simple as the tracks are nearer the front it becomes more and more complex towards the rear. I would prefer somewhere between these two extremes...so...

2. Simplified design using major power tracks that could split into minor tracks nearer to the connected domes (to avoid the increase in crowding towards the rear as in 1.). AND connecting the sensors to the nearest dome and not all the way back to the control box.

3. Test to see how much more complex the cabling becomes with 4 domes per section. Also using major and minor power tracks and adding more breaks to the tracks to look more like an actual circuit-board.

4. As 3. but with only three domes. Major and minor tracks, but with added short tracks that don't appear to really attach to anything but clearly serve a purpose.

5. Taking the "short tracks that don't appear to go anywhere" to the extreme.

I'm hovering somewhere around number 4. But executed slightly better and a little simpler.
I like the broken tracks that appear to be coming in and out of the surface, just need to maintain direction to them without getting carried away.

Thoughts, ideas, improvements etc... welcome.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh yeah. I also added some little winglets to the rear wing/spoiler as The Scientists equivalent to "Vectored engines" (I believe is the rule).

I like number 2 best, still leaves plenty of space for painting, and not too much happening all over. The control box should be internal, or snipers have a primary target.

 Theophony wrote:
I like number 2 best, still leaves plenty of space for painting, and not too much happening all over. The control box should be internal, or snipers have a primary target.

Thanks Theo. Good point. Actually, If I don't use the control box, I could just have 1 focal point on each section and not have to link it all the way back to the rear, that would greatly simplify the design and make all the sections uniform in coverage.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok. Mock up number 6. How about a combination of 2 and 4...

I was looking at the drawing and wondering what a mix of 2 and 4 would be and then I scrolled down and bingo. 6 has got my vote for sure.

 Casey's Law wrote:
I was looking at the drawing and wondering what a mix of 2 and 4 would be and then I scrolled down and bingo. 6 has got my vote for sure.

Ha. Thanks Casey.

In related news, I have had a look at cutting some thin plastic and card to make the tracks and it didn't go well. Can't cut the plastic straight enough AND thin enough and can't cut the card thin enough. I did produce a nice template to get consistent angles though and I think I'm going to settle for painting the tracks on at the end. I even looked at cotton thread but it would be tricky to use and wouldn't be a smooth finish.

Keep the thoughts coming guys and gals.

I'm not sure what scale you need but have you tried bending paperclips? You could even file them flat on one side although it would take ages. You could probably pick up a load of cheap paperclips of varying sizes. Pretty clumsy solution really. Painting them in might be best as you said.

 Casey's Law wrote:
I'm not sure what scale you need but have you tried bending paperclips? You could even file them flat on one side although it would take ages. You could probably pick up a load of cheap paperclips of varying sizes. Pretty clumsy solution really. Painting them in might be best as you said.

I have a metric load of paperclips but they are all much thicker than the wire I have.
Thanks though.

I briefly thought about bending the wire to shape and then hammering it flat (as it's mostly copper), but that's a lot of effort to go through to get a result that is only slightly more 3D than painting them on.

I believe that I have finished building. The waveserpent known as WS0001 is compete.

I probably could carry on adding little things here and there or add something else ridiculous but I think this is enough. It is still recognizable as a waveserpent, It can still act like a waveserpent, but is unique enough that no-one else will have one like it, and that was the aim.

In no particular order there is:
The gap in the floor inside the transport bay has been filled.
Two more seats added to the middle section.
All six seats are upholstered with leather.
Holo-screen added to far end of transport bay.
Added some spare communication equipment.
Added a first aid box.
Added a red flight-light and a blue emergency light to interior.
Painted interior and added a pin-up girl.

Built main engines from scratch, including intakes (with fans), Turbo devices and various wires, pipes and cables.
Added hatches to allow access to the engines with handles and working hinges.

Built a turret from most of the pieces of the original.
Made the turret more aerodynamic.
built a second Las-cannon/bright lance to accompany a stock bright lance.
Added a large HK missile-alike to the turret, complete with electro-magnetic clamps.

Built a rear wing/spoiler with small winglets for additional control.
Added a disposable fuel tank to underside.
Added Air-brakes to underside.
Added a small vent next to the cockpit.

Built a pilot from just a head and many wires and pipes.

Rebuilt the chin turret so that it can see through it's full 180deg range.

Added a pointed nose to make the vehicle look more streamlined and smoothed a few other pieces of bodywork.

Added domes as a replacement for the energy spines.

Is that all? I think so.

Undercoated roughly. Time to think about paint more seriously.


C&C welcome.

You know, those could be considered large rivets...

 Skalk Bloodaxe wrote:
You know, those could be considered large rivets...

What could? Oh the domes. True they will look less like rivets once painted with the circuit. But there are some rivets holding on the missile (two for the arm to the turret and two at the other end).

Looks great man and suitably wacky! I'm sure it'll paint up really well.