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The thing I find interesting about all of this is that if the eldar loose ignore cover serpent shields then the old strategy of GtG behind an ADL and then give your units Get back into the fight orders so you can shoot will become brutal again. Really little to nothing changes as you go from having 2 effective shooting units/senior officer a turn against waveserpents (ignore cover) to having 2 effective units due to GtG/get back into the fight. There is some degree of gain as jetbike units are easier to reduce the firepower of by killing or making them jink.

The real question will still be the same before and after. How do we effectively score. Still not a lot of good answers in the IG codex but at least there are some good allied options.

The problem is they have like 36 min range

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
The problem is they have like 36 min range

Doesn't that mean they just can't subtract their BS from the shot? Or are you talking about the jetbikes?

NedTCM, I like the idea of using carriages with orders.. I mean fire on my target. Actually better than my idea since it would be str9 ap3 so you could hurt vehicles if you wanted.

I just miss doctrines from fourth edition. My entire infantry platoons would infiltrate and it was awesome. Was getting troops closer to the enemy always a good thing? Of course not, but it was fun. I wish doctrines would come back, it would really allow you to customize your army.

Also I was able to give my entire army camo cloaks. Which I made out of green stuff, it was awesome and I cried when the new codex made me rip them all off.

 portugus wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
The problem is they have like 36 min range

Doesn't that mean they just can't subtract their BS from the shot? Or are you talking about the jetbikes?

NedTCM, I like the idea of using carriages with orders.. I mean fire on my target. Actually better than my idea since it would be str9 ap3 so you could hurt vehicles if you wanted.

Yes and no. It means you can't fire indirect, so if the unit is out of LOS and within 36" then you can't shoot at the unit. Given the nature of EJB and their JSJ shenanigans, then maneuvering out of LOS isn't that hard to do for them.

Be sure to use at least two units of earthshaker carriages, deployed on the extreme flanking corners of the board so that their arcs of fire cover one another.

Yeah that is probably the time where eldar drop WG with DE teleport and kill the carriges in one turn, because of D weapons.

Also considering that craftworld eldar is a supplement codex, what will stop the eldar players from taking one seer and some DA in serpents from the main book and another seer and some jetbikes from the new one?

Makumba wrote:
Yeah that is probably the time where eldar drop WG with DE teleport and kill the carriges in one turn, because of D weapons.

Also considering that craftworld eldar is a supplement codex, what will stop the eldar players from taking one seer and some DA in serpents from the main book and another seer and some jetbikes from the new one?

Its not a Supplemental Codex, apparently this book because of the change to rules and such it makes the standard Eldar book and the Iyanden one null and void.

Had anyone considered the use of a Deathstrike missile battery as a somewhat 'soft' counter to jetbike spam? Granted, it may not matter if there are 4 to 6 squads of jetbikes zipping around, but the 10" Blast at ST:10 AP:1 that ignores cover will likely clear a flank at least. Throw camo netting on the Deathstrike and hide it/keep it in cover to help it survive and hopefully fire the missile early.

Just thinking out loud here. Anyone have any additional thoughts regarding the Deathstrike use to slow jet bikes down?

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

 Red__Thirst wrote:
Had anyone considered the use of a Deathstrike missile battery as a somewhat 'soft' counter to jetbike spam? Granted, it may not matter if there are 4 to 6 squads of jetbikes zipping around, but the 10" Blast at ST:10 AP:1 that ignores cover will likely clear a flank at least. Throw camo netting on the Deathstrike and hide it/keep it in cover to help it survive and hopefully fire the missile early.

Just thinking out loud here. Anyone have any additional thoughts regarding the Deathstrike use to slow jet bikes down?

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Deathstrikes are a risky choice, not particularly reliable, usually vulnerable. I probably wouldn't use one against bikedar.

One thing that would work really well I think is an Elysian Drop Troops Air Cav list, you can easily fit x5 Valkyries with Veterans, x2 Vendettas and a Vulture Gunship in the 1850-2000 points range. Trying to handle that many Fliers would be an issue, especially since Scatter Lasers no longer have their TL ability.

 Squidmanlolz wrote:


Deathstrikes are a risky choice, not particularly reliable, usually vulnerable. I probably wouldn't use one against bikedar.

Risky, yes, but does prescience allow for a re-roll on the dice to fire the missile?

Turn one, pop smoke with camo netting on the tank and that confers it a 4+ cover save, keep it in cover/out of LOS to help with vulnerability. Turn two, cast prescience from a Sanctioned psyker and go for the 4+ to fire.

Place template and hopefully wipe out an entire squad of jetbikes on a flank. It's not super reliable, but what in the Guard codex is versus jetbikes, really?

It's the best option I can think of here. Also bonus points for comedic value on top of being moderately effective.

Take it easy for now.

-Red__Thirst-

Don't forget to put a bunch of Bullgryn Bubble Wrap around the Deathstrike!

I suggested as much and was promptly told that it would die turn one. I don't care. I got a Deathstrike today just for the sheer fact of wanting to try this.

Well being that it's the bikes biggest threat it makes sense they would try to take it out turn 1. But it's keeping fire off your other stuff for a little bit.

I was about to suggest scions with volley guns using an ignores cover order but they are only range 24".

Don't feel bad about the death strike, the scatter bikes will take out anything thats a threat to them quick.

 Red__Thirst wrote:

Risky, yes, but does prescience allow for a re-roll on the dice to fire the missile?

Prescience lets you reroll to-hit dice, it has no special rules about deathstrike missiles (unsurprisingly). The only way to reroll the deathstrike launch missile dice is to include fateweaver and use the staff of tomorrow.

 gmaleron wrote:
One thing that would work really well I think is an Elysian Drop Troops Air Cav list, you can easily fit x5 Valkyries with Veterans, x2 Vendettas and a Vulture Gunship in the 1850-2000 points range. Trying to handle that many Fliers would be an issue, especially since Scatter Lasers no longer have their TL ability.

The problem is you're relying on trying to fight half the Eldar army with half your army stuck in reserve, and they can certainly put a huge dent in those forces and maul the rest as they come in, especially if they focus primarily on the infantry and the Vendettas, ignoring the otherwise relatively low threat Valkyries while they can delete the infantry units withe ease and can probably relatively easily deal with the two Vendettas, particularly when there will be more than just Jetbikes in an Eldar list.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:
One thing that would work really well I think is an Elysian Drop Troops Air Cav list, you can easily fit x5 Valkyries with Veterans, x2 Vendettas and a Vulture Gunship in the 1850-2000 points range. Trying to handle that many Fliers would be an issue, especially since Scatter Lasers no longer have their TL ability.

The problem is you're relying on trying to fight half the Eldar army with half your army stuck in reserve, and they can certainly put a huge dent in those forces and maul the rest as they come in, especially if they focus primarily on the infantry and the Vendettas, ignoring the otherwise relatively low threat Valkyries while they can delete the infantry units withe ease and can probably relatively easily deal with the two Vendettas, particularly when there will be more than just Jetbikes in an Eldar list.

Its not perfect for sure but back when Eldar Wave Serpent lists were big my Elysians did very well against them thanks to the fact that all my Flyers were zooming and if I ever won the roll off I would go second to make them waste an entire turn of shooting. Coming in from Reserves is helped as well by tossing in an Officer of the fleet and if you want to bring more stuff in on the first turn just take Drop Sentinels or Sentry Gun squads, they are much cheaper and all count toward the "Drop Assault" rule they get. If anything this list got stronger against Eldar on the fact that the Scatter Laser no longer gets Laser Lock, will go a long way and helping me survive until everyone comes onto the table.

 gmaleron wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:
One thing that would work really well I think is an Elysian Drop Troops Air Cav list, you can easily fit x5 Valkyries with Veterans, x2 Vendettas and a Vulture Gunship in the 1850-2000 points range. Trying to handle that many Fliers would be an issue, especially since Scatter Lasers no longer have their TL ability.

The problem is you're relying on trying to fight half the Eldar army with half your army stuck in reserve, and they can certainly put a huge dent in those forces and maul the rest as they come in, especially if they focus primarily on the infantry and the Vendettas, ignoring the otherwise relatively low threat Valkyries while they can delete the infantry units withe ease and can probably relatively easily deal with the two Vendettas, particularly when there will be more than just Jetbikes in an Eldar list.

Its not perfect for sure but back when Eldar Wave Serpent lists were big my Elysians did very well against them thanks to the fact that all my Flyers were zooming and if I ever won the roll off I would go second to make them waste an entire turn of shooting. Coming in from Reserves is helped as well by tossing in an Officer of the fleet and if you want to bring more stuff in on the first turn just take Drop Sentinels or Sentry Gun squads, they are much cheaper and all count toward the "Drop Assault" rule they get. If anything this list got stronger against Eldar on the fact that the Scatter Laser no longer gets Laser Lock, will go a long way and helping me survive until everyone comes onto the table.

I didn't think D-99 had access to any Advisors like Officers of the Fleet? I don't see it as an option under the D-99 Command Squad.

I think the loss of Laserlock will be minimal now that the Wave Serpent has been nerfed, most of the other Scatterlaser platforms are either single-weapon, or will be running double-scatter lasers, probably primarily only the Falcon will feel its loss.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:

 gmaleron wrote:
One thing that would work really well I think is an Elysian Drop Troops Air Cav list, you can easily fit x5 Valkyries with Veterans, x2 Vendettas and a Vulture Gunship in the 1850-2000 points range. Trying to handle that many Fliers would be an issue, especially since Scatter Lasers no longer have their TL ability.

The problem is you're relying on trying to fight half the Eldar army with half your army stuck in reserve, and they can certainly put a huge dent in those forces and maul the rest as they come in, especially if they focus primarily on the infantry and the Vendettas, ignoring the otherwise relatively low threat Valkyries while they can delete the infantry units withe ease and can probably relatively easily deal with the two Vendettas, particularly when there will be more than just Jetbikes in an Eldar list.

Its not perfect for sure but back when Eldar Wave Serpent lists were big my Elysians did very well against them thanks to the fact that all my Flyers were zooming and if I ever won the roll off I would go second to make them waste an entire turn of shooting. Coming in from Reserves is helped as well by tossing in an Officer of the fleet and if you want to bring more stuff in on the first turn just take Drop Sentinels or Sentry Gun squads, they are much cheaper and all count toward the "Drop Assault" rule they get. If anything this list got stronger against Eldar on the fact that the Scatter Laser no longer gets Laser Lock, will go a long way and helping me survive until everyone comes onto the table.

I didn't think D-99 had access to any Advisors like Officers of the Fleet? I don't see it as an option under the D-99 Command Squad.

I think the loss of Laserlock will be minimal now that the Wave Serpent has been nerfed, most of the other Scatterlaser platforms are either single-weapon, or will be running double-scatter lasers, probably primarily only the Falcon will feel its loss.

I run my Elysians out of IA3 2nd Edition they have access to Advisors, Vendettas and can actually get Carapace armor (its expensive but it fits my fluff).