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They'd be mad not do some models in plastic for the first launch. One hopes one of the reasons for the delay is that they're tooling plastic moulds. They even have the Warlord in CAD and so I'd thought they'd have plenty of time to go into plastic tooling.

 Alpharius wrote:
That way, GW/FW can see a LOT more, and then FW can sell a LOT of resin upgrades and variants.

Indeed. I'm so hoping that we'll see Forgeworld put out some sort of Volkite Macro-Carronade weapon. I'll stick two of 'em on a Warlord Class along with two inferno cannons and paint them in Legio Suturvora colours. Incinerate everything!

Well unfortunately I can't say more, but the folks posting that the great likelihood is all resin are simply not correct, imo - time will tell, I guess

I just wish they'd release the rules at least as a demo so I can have a go using my 6mm titans

 Alpharius wrote:
'Plastic Warlords' can easily reach the necessary economies of scale too, in a boxed set for...Adeptus Titanicus!

That way, GW/FW can see a LOT more, and then FW can sell a LOT of resin upgrades and variants.

It makes a lot of sense to at least get the Warlords into plastic.

Leaving the smaller ones - and the largest one? - to resin?

The Warlord in this 8mm scale is the size of the 40k - Imperial Knight Paladin. Could GW sell the 12k-13k units in the first 3 months to make a plastic 8mm scale Warlord economically viable to GW. GW still sees this as a risk. It'd be in the ball park of a $1.5M risk. I think if AT gets plastic Titans it'll be similar to how Horus Heresy did... occurring sometime after there is a large enough established player base to support it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 RiTides wrote:
Well unfortunately I can't say more, but the folks posting that the great likelihood is all resin are simply not correct, imo - time will tell, I guess

Things can change, but this insistence on resin is based on what FW staff said their plans for the game's Titan models were.

 Yodhrin wrote:

Vorian wrote:
They wouldn't have mentioned it at all if the great likelihood was ALL resin Titans (and knights).

£200 - £400 seems realistic though, you'd expect a 40k army to come in somewhere in that region wouldn't you?

A game with five models a side is not 40K. Even if you're charitable in assuming a 1:1 comparison and say a 40K army comprised of 5 Dreadnoughts and nothing else, that's £100 from a discounter, then £30-40 from a discounter for the no-miniatures starter box means plastic AT at anything more than £150 would be extortionate, and that would be for an all-Battle Titan army, not one BT and a few piddly Knights which is what you could realistically expect the AT "entry level" army to be.

A £75 core boxed set with four Reavers and two Warlords, plus a couple of sprues of plastic scenery? That I would call reasonable. Plastic Warhounds in a box of two for £20, single plastic Reavers for £20, single plastic Warlords for £30 seems fair, but of course it's GW so I expect more like £120, £25, £35, and £50 respectively(and £30 for a box of three Knights), but even that would be tolerable.

But 5 Leviathons is £360. If you get some plastic elements of the Warlord it's coming down towards the £200 mark when you add in resin bells and whistles and knights etc.

I think AT is firmly going to be aimed at the same kind of veteran gamer that 30k is, rather than your average new starter to GW.

It would be lovely if we got a B@C style starter with the discounts there in, but that would be a surprise. A plastic Warlord and some plastic knights would be enough to make me happy

I think that there are enough rumors/whispers/hints about Plastic Titans about now that the chances of that happening are greater than, say, a team coming back from 25 down in the 3rrd quarter of the Super Bowl to win it in overtime!

 xttz wrote:
I just wish they'd release the rules at least as a demo so I can have a go using my 6mm titans

I'll use battle tech minis

I'm honestly psyched for this release - more than anything else from GW except maybe Space Hulk

 aka_mythos wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
'Plastic Warlords' can easily reach the necessary economies of scale too, in a boxed set for...Adeptus Titanicus!

That way, GW/FW can see a LOT more, and then FW can sell a LOT of resin upgrades and variants.

It makes a lot of sense to at least get the Warlords into plastic.

Leaving the smaller ones - and the largest one? - to resin?

The Warlord in this 8mm scale is the size of the 40k - Imperial Knight Paladin. Could GW sell the 12k-13k units in the first 3 months to make a plastic 8mm scale Warlord economically viable to GW. GW still sees this as a risk. It'd be in the ball park of a $1.5M risk. I think if AT gets plastic Titans it'll be similar to how Horus Heresy did... occurring sometime after there is a large enough established player base to support it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 RiTides wrote:
Well unfortunately I can't say more, but the folks posting that the great likelihood is all resin are simply not correct, imo - time will tell, I guess

Things can change, but this insistence on resin is based on what FW staff said their plans for the game's Titan models were.

The 8mm Warlord is still about the same size as the FW Thanatar, and has still the same amount of parts, if it would be done in resin (which is not yet decided thanks to more ressources and a hard to find spot in the release schedule thanks to the next two years of planned GW releases).

I also did a little extra write-up after the event for some additional information snippets:
https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/1683

"Adeptus Titanicus and Specialist Games:

- The design work for the initial titans is done, but they haven't decided on the production yet. Maybe plastic, maybe resin. But they know how they will look and the scale. You could take pictures of an 8mm warlord and a 28mm scale one, and wouldn't notice a difference.
- This is meant to be a specialist game - like the heresy, it will probably be expensive. That said, you only need around 5 titans per side for a normal sized game, with smaller games having only one titan (and these are still quite fun and tactical).
- The basic rule book will have fluff for Legio Gryphonicus, Legio Tempestus and 1-2 other ones, aswell as Knights. Also scenarios for big events, like the Battle for the Magna City or Molech.
- Plan is to do "black book style" campaign books after that, with the titans' death as the first.
- The different Titan Legions will get specific traits. Tempestus can deep strike, Astorum may also get the "lucius teleportation stuff".
- Plan is to explore all the different titans that exist in the fluff. Stuff like Nightgaunts or Nemesis titans will be it's own unique class, not weapon variants of the Warlord. These may also be done in 28mm scale if they sell well.
- The Ordo Sinister Psi-Warlords are controlled by a psychic null, and they use psychers as batteries! They want to do a new head piece aswell as a new weapon for it.
- Table size will be 4x4, with 4x6 for the big battles like Molech.
- Probably no Imperator Titan, atleast at the start. They were quite rare, even in 30k, and the scale would make them quite big, even with 8 mm.
- The next two years are quite busy for GW and FW, so no ETA for the release slot."

Also - you guys will love the other specialist game that should be announced later this year, probably at Warhammer Fest

 Alpharius wrote:
I think that there are enough rumors/whispers/hints about Plastic Titans about now that the chances of that happening are greater than, say, a team coming back from 25 down in the 3rrd quarter of the Super Bowl to win it in overtime!

i sure hope so...
i'd be all over that like a monkey on a football

i love my old Epic minis, just for the potential to build awesome dioramas, without taking up rooms of space...
i never did like the original plastic Warlords, though, compared to all the other minis like the Gargant, Phantom, Reaver, Warhound, tanks and infantry...
i much prefer the current Titan designs...
to have a starter with plastic new style Warlords would be the ideal set to revive Adeptus Titanicus, mirroring the original box

i highly doubt that there would not be a plastic starter for this, considering the precedent set by the two HH boxes and Bloodbowl...

cheers
jah

Oh Atia, you little tease. Please be Necromunda, I'm running out of things to buy for it!

After that I'm even more convinced a plastic Warlord is such an obvious step that they will come down on the side of plastic

Cheers, Atia, have updated the OP

 Atia wrote:
Also - you guys will love the other specialist game that should be announced later this year, probably at Warhammer Fest

Necromunda? Battlefleet: Heresy? Wallet breakers one and all...

 Atia wrote:

 aka_mythos wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
'Plastic Warlords' can easily reach the necessary economies of scale too, in a boxed set for...Adeptus Titanicus!

That way, GW/FW can see a LOT more, and then FW can sell a LOT of resin upgrades and variants.

It makes a lot of sense to at least get the Warlords into plastic.

Leaving the smaller ones - and the largest one? - to resin?

The Warlord in this 8mm scale is the size of the 40k - Imperial Knight Paladin. Could GW sell the 12k-13k units in the first 3 months to make a plastic 8mm scale Warlord economically viable to GW. GW still sees this as a risk. It'd be in the ball park of a $1.5M risk. I think if AT gets plastic Titans it'll be similar to how Horus Heresy did... occurring sometime after there is a large enough established player base to support it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 RiTides wrote:
Well unfortunately I can't say more, but the folks posting that the great likelihood is all resin are simply not correct, imo - time will tell, I guess

Things can change, but this insistence on resin is based on what FW staff said their plans for the game's Titan models were.

The 8mm Warlord is still about the same size as the FW Thanatar, and has still the same amount of parts, if it would be done in resin (which is not yet decided thanks to more ressources and a hard to find spot in the release schedule thanks to the next two years of planned GW releases).

I also did a little extra write-up after the event for some additional information snippets:
https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/1683

"Adeptus Titanicus and Specialist Games:

- The design work for the initial titans is done, but they haven't decided on the production yet. Maybe plastic, maybe resin. But they know how they will look and the scale. You could take pictures of an 8mm warlord and a 28mm scale one, and wouldn't notice a difference.
- This is meant to be a specialist game - like the heresy, it will probably be expensive. That said, you only need around 5 titans per side for a normal sized game, with smaller games having only one titan (and these are still quite fun and tactical).
- The basic rule book will have fluff for Legio Gryphonicus, Legio Tempestus and 1-2 other ones, aswell as Knights. Also scenarios for big events, like the Battle for the Magna City or Molech.
- Plan is to do "black book style" campaign books after that, with the titans' death as the first.
- The different Titan Legions will get specific traits. Tempestus can deep strike, Astorum may also get the "lucius teleportation stuff".
- Plan is to explore all the different titans that exist in the fluff. Stuff like Nightgaunts or Nemesis titans will be it's own unique class, not weapon variants of the Warlord. These may also be done in 28mm scale if they sell well.
- The Ordo Sinister Psi-Warlords are controlled by a psychic null, and they use psychers as batteries! They want to do a new head piece aswell as a new weapon for it.
- Table size will be 4x4, with 4x6 for the big battles like Molech.
- Probably no Imperator Titan, atleast at the start. They were quite rare, even in 30k, and the scale would make them quite big, even with 8 mm.
- The next two years are quite busy for GW and FW, so no ETA for the release slot."

Also - you guys will love the other specialist game that should be announced later this year, probably at Warhammer Fest

FW guy from demo area, says Warlord will be about 6" tall. (I think his name is chris)

 Atia wrote:
Also - you guys will love the other specialist game that should be announced later this year, probably at Warhammer Fest

Let's hope for Warmaster and Epic!

FW guy from demo area, says Warlord will be about 6" tall. (I think his name is chris)

The "thanatar size" is from Andy ^^

That said, I don't own one so no clue about it's measurements but it's the largest robot already - don't expect the AT warlord to be tiny and cheap ;P

Hmmm, the Thanatar is much bigger than the Leviathan dreadnought - odd that we've heard both. I really hope it's sized more like the Leviathan... also so it can fit on a smaller base for gameplay. Any word on base size?

Maybe it only reaches Thanatar height when counting the guns on top, and that accounts for the two different size descriptions?

I can see a small sprue of plastic Knights but titans in resin. I am just not sure that using Bloodbowl is really that helpful, a blood bowl team is what 6 figs on a small sprue. Where given the rough size examples given a titan is likely to require at least one of the large sprues that GW produce.

They are currently struggling just to get production capability for the plastic scenery, so how much of a delay to get even more capability for titans.

I think they'll benefit most from whatever they see as the baseline unit for the game being in plastic. With one additional class also in plastic. Personally I think Warlords and Reavers would be the best bet for them financially to see the game take off. Resin upgrades/specialty classes and then smaller units in resin seem like the best call.

That said I'm not sure most people want to work with resin knights at that size so that may be a thought too. I do miss when they had additional machines here in the US to take some pressure off the UK factory. There would have been more room for things like this then as they wouldn't need to divert as many resources from standard stock items.

 Atia wrote:

The 8mm Warlord is still about the same size as the FW Thanatar, and has still the same amount of parts, if it would be done in resin (which is not yet decided thanks to more resources and a hard to find spot in the release schedule thanks to the next two years of planned GW releases).

Previously the Warlord was reported at 6 inches tall, where the Thanatar 4-3/4 (without gun) 5-1/4 inches tall (with gun)... if Adeptus Titanicus is truly 8mm as they've said... whether you go by the canonical height of a Warlord Titan being 100 feet tall or go by the 40k scale Warlord titan being 22 inches tall (not including shoulder guns)... The math says a Warlord Titan in 8mm scale should be between 6 and 6-1/4 inches tall. So has GW abandoned the 8mm scale? -Or is the displayed model just a working model with the wrong scale? -Or is someone just misremembering because they didn't have both models or the model and ruler in hand?

 Atia wrote:

FW guy from demo area, says Warlord will be about 6" tall. (I think his name is chris)

The "thanatar size" is from Andy ^^

That said, I don't own one so no clue about it's measurements but it's the largest robot already - don't expect the AT warlord to be tiny and cheap ;P

That's a Thanatar, and it is on a standard 120mm by 90mm oval base. From this it is between 4-3/4 and 5-1/4 inches tall. The Thanatar size is off scale for a Warlord. If a Warlord is only Thanatar scale the game isn't 8mm, but is closer true 6mm. That's how far off it is from everything else that's been established. HOWEVER, maybe he was thinking about the Reaver titan. If a Reaver Titan is scaled to 8mm, whether by its canonical height or by its 40k-scale model... it ends up between 5 and 5.1 inches tall... which is pretty much the height and size of a Thanatar.

 aka_mythos wrote:

 Atia wrote:

The 8mm Warlord is still about the same size as the FW Thanatar, and has still the same amount of parts, if it would be done in resin (which is not yet decided thanks to more resources and a hard to find spot in the release schedule thanks to the next two years of planned GW releases).

Previously the Warlord was reported at 6 inches tall, where the Thanatar 5-1/4 inches tall... if Adeptus Titanicus is truly 8mm as they've said... whether you go by the canonical height of a Warlord Titan being 100 feet tall or go by the 40k scale Warlord titan being 22 inches tall (not including shoulder guns)... The math says a Warlord Titan in 8mm scale should be between 6 and 6-1/4 inches tall. So has GW abandoned the 8mm scale? -Or is the displayed model just a working model with the wrong scale? -Or is someone just misremembering because they didn't have both models or the model and ruler in hand?

This made me laugh so much! It made me think of some fanboy at comic con asking an actor about some deeply unknown fanboy cannon that no one else knows/cares about in a nerdage rampage of trying to put real world logic into a game! Clearly the scale is 7.9664mm and not a true 8mm, geesh! LOL


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Reds8n

Earlier in this thread they mentioned they scaled the demonstration game up by a factor of 4 - so perhaps they are just admitting that 40k is a 32mm scale game

22 inches divided by 4 is 5.5 inches, near enough the Thanatar

krazynadechukr wrote:

This made me laugh so much! It made me think of some fanboy at comic con asking an actor about some deeply unknown fanboy cannon that no one else knows/cares about in a nerdage rampage of trying to put real world logic into a game! Clearly the scale is 7.9664mm and not a true 8mm, geesh! LOL

The fact that FW chose to change the scale was contentious to begin with. And a major point of the change was so that they could portray all the models in the same and correct scale, as opposed to the original epic games which were very inconsistent in scale. Further it is much more a drastic difference in scale than you are dismissing it. The difference in scale and height between a "8mm Warlord titan" being 40k-Knight titan sized model and an "8mm Warlord titan" being portrayed as Thanatar sized is the same difference as if the 40k-Warlord titan were only the size of the 40k-Reaver titan. As far as scaling goes that is drastic. This is as drastic as telling a 6 feet tall man that they're about 5 feet tall.

Please can the title of the thread be changed? This doesn't read to me like the return of Epic, it's the return of Adeptus Titanicus

 RiTides wrote:
Well unfortunately I can't say more, but the folks posting that the great likelihood is all resin are simply not correct, imo - time will tell, I guess

Based on info that is public that's presently the case. If you've been told something different that's great, but alas I can't base my spending plans on winks & nudges, I have to think twice before putting stuff aside even for reliable rumours.

Vorian wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
-snip-

But 5 Leviathons is £360. If you get some plastic elements of the Warlord it's coming down towards the £200 mark when you add in resin bells and whistles and knights etc.

I think AT is firmly going to be aimed at the same kind of veteran gamer that 30k is, rather than your average new starter to GW.

It would be lovely if we got a B@C style starter with the discounts there in, but that would be a surprise. A plastic Warlord and some plastic knights would be enough to make me happy

Yes, 5 Leviathans would be, but those are resin models and I was discussing plastic there specifically to contrast against the potential £200-400 resin cost, which I consider too high.

As for aiming it at 30K-style players, well, I'm sure they'll make plenty of money out of it, whether you'll get enough players for it to be a functioning game system with an active community is another matter. At £150 all-in I know four or five other people who, with some grumbling, would be all over AT, and that's enough for the "hardcore" nucleus I'd expect a solid local AT community to form around. £300+? Only I'm mental enough to save up and buy a force at that price, very few others locally would touch it with a ten foot pole and likely not enough in any particular club to get a scene going. And at those prices I certainly couldn't justify buying a second force to run demo games to try and get others hooked.

It just seems so silly to limit the target market for the game so much when it could be huge.

 Pacific wrote:
Please can the title of the thread be changed? This doesn't read to me like the return of Epic, it's the return of Adeptus Titanicus

Well, it is an Epic scale game with GW's inbuilt scale creep. If it does well, expect to see Ordinatus and Super Heavy tanks added and for it to grow. Also, James Hewitt has said the rules are being written so that vehicles and infantry can be added in at a later date without much problem if the initial line proves popular.

I expect this to be a boxed game and if it is a boxed game it will be plastic, resin is simply not robust nor cheap enough, well not unless the game will cost £200 and be one giant clam pack.

 Silent Puffin? wrote:
I expect this to be a boxed game and if it is a boxed game it will be plastic, resin is simply not robust nor cheap enough, well not unless the game will cost £200 and be one giant clam pack.

If the Warlord Titan is the size of a 40k- Knight Titan... conceivably if FW/GW can hit the same economy of scale, producing in plastic and expecting to sell similar numbers of kits, they could in theory sell a boxed game like Renegades. Giving us 2 Warlords and a building for $200. And if the medium sized games really use 5-6 Warlords, people will buy 3 boxes of the game.

SeanDrake wrote:I can see a small sprue of plastic Knights

I think you just increased my interest by about five hundred to six hundred percent. Five hundred and seventy...two. Percent.

Vorian wrote:Earlier in this thread they mentioned they scaled the demonstration game up by a factor of 4 - so perhaps they are just admitting that 40k is a 32mm scale game

That, or it should be an 8mm game.

aka_mythos wrote:Giving us 2 Warlords and a building for $200. And if the medium sized games really use 5-6 Warlords, people will buy 3 boxes of the game.

Seems... optimistic. For most gamers anyway.

They will be missing a trick if they do not release a initial box set with plastic titans, that is for sure.

I am on the fence with this one.

Yay epic! Happy about this

 aka_mythos wrote:

krazynadechukr wrote:

This made me laugh so much! It made me think of some fanboy at comic con asking an actor about some deeply unknown fanboy cannon that no one else knows/cares about in a nerdage rampage of trying to put real world logic into a game! Clearly the scale is 7.9664mm and not a true 8mm, geesh! LOL

The fact that FW chose to change the scale was contentious to begin with. And a major point of the change was so that they could portray all the models in the same and correct scale, as opposed to the original epic games which were very inconsistent in scale. Further it is much more a drastic difference in scale than you are dismissing it. The difference in scale and height between a "8mm Warlord titan" being 40k-Knight titan sized model and an "8mm Warlord titan" being portrayed as Thanatar sized is the same difference as if the 40k-Warlord titan were only the size of the 40k-Reaver titan. As far as scaling goes that is drastic. This is as drastic as telling a 6 feet tall man that they're about 5 feet tall.

chat with James Hewitt after the Adeptus Titanicus seminar, GW had this to say: “While the game was clearly inspired by previous editions of Titanicus, as well as Epic, it’s very much it’s own new thing." ... "... been working on making the 40k scale Warlord into a AT scale and it’s taken around 2 to 3 months to complete." ... "I think this will be a really good system to get into when it comes out – which is still not finalised. Because it’s going out in GW stores it has to fight it’s way into the main GW schedule, and apparently there’s already a lot lined up for the next two years which is making Titanicus problematic to schedule.” ... It started in a different scale... actually very different...things varied from 8mm to 10mm..."