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Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka





Ottawa Ontario Canada

gungo wrote:
 Crablezworth wrote:
 RiTides wrote:
All is revealed!!

Now wouldn't it have been easier if GW had just made that the core rule from the start, rather than amending it so soon . I mean, didn't they have to know this was coming from the very beginning (as the TOs seemed to)?

Still, sounds great



Better to make us all pay for it it would seem. I've already been told to quote "stfu" for lamenting that fact on frontline's facebook page. Yay.



Obsec is fine and all, just not sure why it wouldn't be there initially.

You act as if it's a hard rule to remember. The only reason I think the rule was added was to diversify lists away from spam.


Well here's hoping it has that effect on spam


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 yakface wrote:
by the time they had the rules fleshed out to the point where they were comfortable sharing them with a wider breadth of outside playtesters, the feedback they got back likely couldn't have changed the core rules in any meaningful way, if at all.


Yeah it's entirely possible that GW took the feedback without ever intending to apply it simply as a PR/act of good faith. But it's hard to square the whole "most tested edition evar" and have stuff like this chapter approved drop, especially so soon on the heels of said well tested ruleset. It's hard to have mistakes remedied when the whole time you're being told it's not a bug but a feature and so on. The book leaves a bad taste but if those are the only changes to matched play at least from the sounds of it it's not hard to remember the changes. Here's hoping even if they are cash grabs they might put back other good rules from 7th.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/08/09 21:49:32


Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.  
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






Las Vegas, NV

@Crabz

Yeah, just saw that. Sorry for that, that wasn't a staff member, obviously.

But this is not a cash grab. 100% certain of that, lol.

This edition was--for sure--heavily, heavily play tested by people that took it very seriously. However, in a dynamic system, things change and things get missed and sometimes things get caught when it is too late to fix them on release. That's just the reality of the situation.

If you don't like the edition, which judging from your comments on FB it sounds to be the case--then that is fine. That does not mean the edition is objectively bad as you presented it. It just means you don't like it, which while that sucks, is subjective.

The game is incredibly popular with 8th ed. Like, so popular that it is hard to get product to sell! It's not perfect, but it most certainly is a hit with a huge swathe of the gaming community, FWIW.

I hope in time you come back to the game and enjoy it, but if not, then I hope you have fun playing whichever game does tickle your fancy.

@Yak

Yeah, you understand as you are in the industry. I understand why people draw the conclusions they do (I probably would have, myself a while back). But in learning how things work, I see how incredibly difficult it is, and how much timing comes in to play.

GW is going out of their way to address issues in a timely fashion which is awesome.

Once things settle down a bit, these changes will come much slower I would imagine.

   
Made in us
[DCM]
Dankhold Troggoth






Shadeglass Maze

 yakface wrote:
 RiTides wrote:
All is revealed!!

Now wouldn't it have been easier if GW had just made that the core rule from the start, rather than amending it so soon . I mean, didn't they have to know this was coming from the very beginning (as the TOs seemed to)?

Still, sounds great

As Reece mentioned, you have to keep in mind the extremely long lead time for making something like the 40k rulebook.

If you read between the lines a bit we can probably surmise that most of the playtesting feedback GW could have gotten for 8th edition wouldn't have been useful except to make changes to the game AFTER the rulebook was already finished and off to the printers. That's just the reality of having a product that both takes a very long time to make but also has a pretty strict time frame for when it needs to be released. Since they were making such massive changes to the ENTIRE game, by the time they had the rules fleshed out to the point where they were comfortable sharing them with a wider breadth of outside playtesters, the feedback they got back likely couldn't have changed the core rules in any meaningful way, if at all.

That makes sense of course, and I am really happy GW is addressing things like this, in case that wasn't clear!

However, it's also pretty clear they probably knew this change was coming (as did the TOs ) before 8th was actually released, so it kinda sux that they weren't more forthcoming about it previously. Reading between the lines is hard to do

Still positive though, and can't wait until FW puts out Fires of Cyraxus so I can actually use my army with the new rules

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/08/09 22:42:56


 
   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran




McCragge

Well looks like you are off the hook Reecius.

Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!

Martel - "Custodes are terrible in 8th. Good luck with them. They take all the problems of marines and multiply them."

"Lol, classic martel. 'I know it was strong enough to podium in the biggest tournament in the world but I refuse to acknowledge space marines are good because I can't win with them and it can't possibly be ME'."

DakkaDakka is really the place where you need anti-tank guns to kill basic dudes, because anything less isn't durable enough. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Now reecius tell forgeworld to release the rules for my ork mega dread they promised in the FAQ.
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






Las Vegas, NV

@RiTides

Well yeah, but we have to keep quiet on things as with this. We just have to bite our tongue and wait, sometimes =)

@Primark G

Haha, right?! =)

@Gungog

Yeah, I feel you. The Meka Dread is bad ass though, you can use it as that kit. That's what I am doing.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




The meka dread is definitely one of the better dreads. I'm just hoping for a cheaper mega dread with mega charga and supa skorcha arm option. Which will give me reliable 24in shooting even at bs5 and extra choppy action. The meka dread is more kff support with bs4 rattler kannon. They should pair well together if the rules are similar to last edition and should make dread lists stronger since they provide greater threat range and better shooting on a more durable platform.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/11 02:13:12


 
   
Made in us
Scarred Ultramarine Tyrannic War Veteran




McCragge

 Reecius wrote:
@RiTides

Well yeah, but we have to keep quiet on things as with this. We just have to bite our tongue and wait, sometimes =)

@Primark G

Haha, right?! =)



Very impressive to see they have your back. Good on you mate.

:-)

Bow down to Guilliman for he is our new God Emperor!

Martel - "Custodes are terrible in 8th. Good luck with them. They take all the problems of marines and multiply them."

"Lol, classic martel. 'I know it was strong enough to podium in the biggest tournament in the world but I refuse to acknowledge space marines are good because I can't win with them and it can't possibly be ME'."

DakkaDakka is really the place where you need anti-tank guns to kill basic dudes, because anything less isn't durable enough. 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




 Reecius wrote:

@Blazinghand

Doug is a very good player and frequently on the top tables of any tournament he goes to. His list shoots your pants off and has resiliency, mobility and Bobby G. Pretty straightforward to me, actually.


Interesting, I figured it was a list that required a lot of skill to play. Stormraven, Vulture, and Centurions all put out lots of shots. It'd probably have been very interesting to watch in action.
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






Las Vegas, NV

One of his games against iNcontroL are on our FB page if you want to watch it.

   
Made in cz
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!




CZ

 Reecius wrote:
@Crabz

This edition was--for sure--heavily, heavily play tested by people that took it very seriously. ...

Once things settle down a bit, these changes will come much slower I would imagine.


I dont want to be mean, but if this edition was so heavily tested, I cant image how is it possible that those over-efficient units just slipped under/over/around the testers scope (you know, the units that are spammed a lot, I dont want to name them to avoid any possible quarrel)...makes me sad, I really had high hopes for the edition :(

 
   
Made in us
[ADMIN]
President of the Mat Ward Fan Club






Los Angeles, CA

 Lothar wrote:
I dont want to be mean, but if this edition was so heavily tested, I cant image how is it possible that those over-efficient units just slipped under/over/around the testers scope (you know, the units that are spammed a lot, I dont want to name them to avoid any possible quarrel)...makes me sad, I really had high hopes for the edition :(

When you're dealing with a major project like 40k 8th edition (which was massive: writing all new core rules AND all new rules for the tons of different factions 40k has), it takes a very, very long time to do all that work. But then you've also got a set-in-stone release window that you have to hit. On top of that, you have to get the rules to a polished enough place where outside playtesters can even be of use...if you release rules to playtesters when the rules are still too early in development, then you get a bunch of feedback that's more or less useless because you're still making tons of changes every single day.

So you have to get the rules to a decent (close to done) state, before you can give them to external playtesters, but then you don't really have enough time to correlate and implement all the changes that the external playtesters have because the time between getting those 'polished' rules to them and when you have to print the books (months ahead of the actual release date) in order to get those books done for the official release date means: pretty much all the feedback you get back from external playtesters is only going to start to filter in as codexes are released, FAQs are implemented and 'Chapter Approved' annuals are released.

Unless you want to push the release date of 8th edition back a year to 18 months (which would be bad for the company's bottom line to do so), that's just the sad reality of how a project of his magnitude works.

While we'd all love for the rules to be absolutely perfect the first time around, the fact that they are actually using external playtesters again and the fact that they're actually committed to making improvements/changes via FAQs & Annual releases is a massive improvement over anything we've had before.


I play (click on icons to see pics): DQ:70+S++G(FAQ)M++B-I++Pw40k92/f-D+++A+++/areWD104R+T(D)DM+++
yakface's 40K rule #1: Although the rules allow you to use modeling to your advantage, how badly do you need to win your toy soldier games?
yakface's 40K rule #2: Friends don't let friends start a MEQ army.
yakface's 40K rule #3: Codex does not ALWAYS trump the rulebook, so please don't say that!
Waaagh Dakka: click the banner to learn more! 
   
Made in de
Fresh-Faced New User




 yakface wrote:
 Lothar wrote:
I dont want to be mean, but if this edition was so heavily tested, I cant image how is it possible that those over-efficient units just slipped under/over/around the testers scope (you know, the units that are spammed a lot, I dont want to name them to avoid any possible quarrel)...makes me sad, I really had high hopes for the edition :(

When you're dealing with a major project like 40k 8th edition (which was massive: writing all new core rules AND all new rules for the tons of different factions 40k has), it takes a very, very long time to do all that work. But then you've also got a set-in-stone release window that you have to hit. On top of that, you have to get the rules to a polished enough place where outside playtesters can even be of use...if you release rules to playtesters when the rules are still too early in development, then you get a bunch of feedback that's more or less useless because you're still making tons of changes every single day.

So you have to get the rules to a decent (close to done) state, before you can give them to external playtesters, but then you don't really have enough time to correlate and implement all the changes that the external playtesters have because the time between getting those 'polished' rules to them and when you have to print the books (months ahead of the actual release date) in order to get those books done for the official release date means: pretty much all the feedback you get back from external playtesters is only going to start to filter in as codexes are released, FAQs are implemented and 'Chapter Approved' annuals are released.

Unless you want to push the release date of 8th edition back a year to 18 months (which would be bad for the company's bottom line to do so), that's just the sad reality of how a project of his magnitude works.

While we'd all love for the rules to be absolutely perfect the first time around, the fact that they are actually using external playtesters again and the fact that they're actually committed to making improvements/changes via FAQs & Annual releases is a massive improvement over anything we've had before.



Yes, People should think of like a videogame. A few weeks after release the first patches start to arrive!

In games like this we get rules erratas and chapter approved instead.. Same same but different! =)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/24 10:06:56


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




I think 8th is shaping up extremely well and I'm very glad to see GW rapidly pushing out FAQ/Errata and changes.

I would hope that Chapter Approved has a formal terrain system in it, or at least stated guidelines.

Many of the issues I see for new players seem to arise around not enough LOS blocking terrain.
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






Las Vegas, NV

Yeah, exactly.

OF COURSE we miss things. I use caps not to simulate yelling but for emphasis. We're talking about a system with essentially infinite variables. It is inevitable that some things get missed. The hard part for the testers is that you all don't get to see all of the things we caught! Haha, you only see things that were missed.

It stinks when that happens but it is what it is. As you all have seen and noted, we're actively fixing errors in a timely fashion.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




gungo wrote:
Now reecius tell forgeworld to release the rules for my ork mega dread they promised in the FAQ.


Can he also tell them to balance their stuff
   
 
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