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If AoS is anything to go by we'll probably see 1-2 rules per faction as a reward for going purely into that faction/legion.

I just realized that the new weapon type rules might be nuts for csm. There seems to be no restriction of firing and assaulting anymore. So plasma chosen or auto cannon havocs can walk up , unload a ton of dakka, and then STILL assault.
Specifially BL plasma chosen could be sweet for being troops and holding objectives but still being able to attack without holding back if anything comes close enough.
Or flamers, move 6, run 5 (crusader currently) and then flame. Seems you can advanc and still shoot assault but at -1, but since you auto hit with flamers...
8th is shaping to be a completely different game indeed.

 Roknar wrote:
I just realized that the new weapon type rules might be nuts for csm. There seems to be no restriction of firing and assaulting anymore. So plasma chosen or auto cannon havocs can walk up , unload a ton of dakka, and then STILL assault.

But why would you assault with ranged chosen/havocs? Although I could see you doing it with terminators: give them all combi-plasmas and power weapons, drop down from deep strike, fire all your plasmas twice (cause combi) then charge and tear your opponant appart in melee. Even more spicy is the idea that, within 12", termies with combi plasma get rapidfire plasma and can fire twice with combi so that is 4x S7 AP-3 shots each!

Why not? Midrange units like plasma chosen didn''t want to assault because that stopped them from shooting, not because they didn't want to assault. They still would have had 4 attacks on the charge each, but firing plasma was better. Now you can fire plasma AND attack, and it's even better now because you get to strike first and cause even more casualties before the other gets a chance to hit back. It's like have 5 long range plasma pistols now. And Mok now even makes sense on such a unit if you think they can survive without MoN. And you even get MORE kills due to battleshocks. Wiping the enemy unit is no longer a concern since you aren't safe in melee anyway, you just want to pile on the wounds.

A unit of BL chosen with plasma could camp on an objective and only get more dangerous the closer your opponent gets. And cover got better too in some cases, so shooting them out might not be easy.
Obviously it's not going to generally improve units and some will benefit more than others, but since csm have always been a CC oriented army, being able to now shoot better while we move in closer might be pretty awesome. We don't NEED relentless models to do that now, everything can move/shoot/assault. Termies just got even better doing it.

Aye, I suppose.
Although, as always, it will depend on the unit that you are charging.

Oh, right, you can even fire pistols in addition to the plasma XD
And yea, just saying, there is potential for nastyness ^^

 Roknar wrote:
Oh, right, you can even fire pistols in addition to the plasma XD
And yea, just saying, there is potential for nastyness ^^

If only we could duel wield combi-plasmas, imagine: a 5 man termi squad dropping down behind a big monster and dropping 40 S8 AP-3 D2 shots on say, a Knight:
2/3*1/2*2/3*40*2 = 26 wounds

Goodbye Knight!

(Just wishful thinking though)

How do you get a combi-plasma to fire 4 shots with it's plasma part?

Sonic Keyboard wrote:
How do you get a combi-plasma to fire 4 shots with it's plasma part?

My bad, I was thinking 2 shots with plasma and 2 with the boltgun but in my head that translated to "of course, that means 4 shots with the plasma part!".

What if 'Death to the False Emperor' will allow CSM to fire twice in exchange to reloading in the next turn and/or being stationary, like in HH or 2nd edition? Were there any leaks of that rule?

Also Reaper autocannon now fires 4 shots because Twin-linked!

I believe that rule was rumored/leaked to apparently give rerolls in melee of some sort, but I never saw anything official for that.

Also, who else is excited for plague marines? Pretty nice way to fill up troop slots look like.

Sonic Keyboard wrote:
What if 'Death to the False Emperor' will allow CSM to fire twice in exchange to reloading in the next turn and/or being stationary, like in HH or 2nd edition? Were there any leaks of that rule?

Also Reaper autocannon now fires 4 shots because Twin-linked!

[/i]Supposedly[i] DttFE allows to roll add'l attacks in combat if you roll a 6 to hit. I haven't seen anything in the actual leaks or teasers that have surfaced, just something I saw on FB where someone screen shotted their phone after a convo w/ their LGS after pre-ordering some 8th ed stuff, and the store owner said 'Oh, by the way...'.

Not sure if it has been covered at all yet but it would seem now that models that can fly do not get penalised for falling back, from the warhammer tv twitch stream today: (paraphrasing) "When falling back you will not be able to advance, shoot or charge that turn unless you have the ability to fly".

For context he was reading how falling back will work in the new edition and I don't think he meant to say the last bit on stream.

If this is true (and he wasn't just winding us up) then DP and Greater Daemons are gonna be really nasty: your army shoots a unit, the Daemon charges in to hold that unit up for a turn, you fly out again during your turn and repeat. Could be quite tasty.

According to the leaks flying only affects shooting, so no charging back in. Not sure where the rules stand on psychic powers though, seems like you can use those whenever you want so far.

Just putting this up here. We have a bunch of leaks for chaos units: http://imgur.com/a/kPLQc

 Roknar wrote:
Just putting this up here. We have a bunch of leaks for chaos units: http://imgur.com/a/kPLQc

Not sure whether I am happy that the Daemon Weapon rule has stayed the same, too many times has a roll of 1 led to me losing games. It also seems like a few other "Woah chaos is so random" rules have stayed, case in point the obliterators.

Hmmm, we'll have to see.

Actually they got hit with the nerfbat pretty hard. If I'm reading that right, you roll regardless of whether or not you intend to use the weapon, which is the same as before, but if you roll a 1, instead of "just" taking a hit to WS you actually don't get to use it at all AND you take a wound no matter what where before you could use an invulnerable save. That's much more harsh then it used to be.
On the flipside though, they seem to be doing d3 damage now, meaning with his (potential) 12 attacks he could deal up to 36 wounds XD I don't see why that wouldn't be part of other daemon weapons too, drachnyen wasn't all that special, hell, the blind axe was better. So one the one hand they got a nerf, on the other they could do ludicrous damage.
Still sucks for being AP -3 though, you'd think rending reality would merit a higher rend value, but I guess d3 damage per wound is pretty nice.

 Roknar wrote:
Actually they got hit with the nerfbat pretty hard. If I'm reading that right, you roll regardless of whether or not you intend to use the weapon, which is the same as before, but if you roll a 1, instead of "just" taking a hit to WS you actually don't get to use it at all AND you take a wound no matter what where before you could use an invulnerable save. That's much more harsh then it used to be.
On the flipside though, they seem to be doing d3 damage now, meaning with his (potential) 12 attacks he could deal up to 36 wounds XD I don't see why that wouldn't be part of other daemon weapons too, drachnyen wasn't all that special, hell, the blind axe was better. So one the one hand they got a nerf, on the other they could do ludicrous damage.
Still sucks for being AP -3 though, you'd think rending reality would merit a higher rend value, but I guess d3 damage per wound is pretty nice.

Well it some ways it is worse: take an automatic wound and you can't use Drachnyen, but in some ways it is better: rather than dropping your WS you just can't use Drachnyen, that means you can still make your attacks with the talon of Horus.

You are right with the AP though, Abaddon should realistically be able to cut through termies like butter.

Hmm, good point about the talon. It kind of makes daemon weaponsa little more expensive. On a lord you might want to bring a second weapon now just in case since you are completely boned if you roll a one and don't have a back up now. The WS penalty still manged to cause some wounds at least.

What I also noticed is that if I were to put all my attacks into the talon I would still have to make d6 attacks with Drachnyen due to it's Daemon rule. Is that good? Well it isn't bad.

First thing I noticed was Raptors are 17ppm

Warp Talons are 15ppm

I hope Raptors got a massive buff...

Also, I am confused by this whole buy the model (excluding wargear) stuff... Does that mean you have to build the squad completely or does it actually mean buy the model with basic wargear.

Because I don't want to have to pay 17pts for a Raptor, plus, X for a Pistol, plus X for a Chainsword, plus X for frag grenades, plus X for krak grenades, plus X for power armour, plus X for Jump pack.

I guess we need to see the list building process to get a proper answer.

The way it reads is that you pay for the models individually rather than a base unit cost + additional models, you still have min unit sizes though. You also pay for all the gear they have, BUT, that gear might just cost zero points. So currently there's no way to tell how much our untis will actually end up costing. The warp talons may or may not have to pay for their lightning claws, though I very much suspect they will have to. Raptors on the other hand probably only have to pay for plasma and the sorts rather than having to pay for their bolt pistols.

In the chaos unit list, i see "fallen". Could it be some kind of infiltrating mini cyphers?

Gathering storm (re)introduced fallen as something other than slightly altered chosen, so that's what those will be. Never checked their actual rules mind you so I don't know what to expect there.

FudgeDumper wrote:
In the chaos unit list, i see "fallen". Could it be some kind of infiltrating mini cyphers?

Fallen already exist in current 40k. Rules and everything, they're in GS3

C.Straken wrote:First thing I noticed was Raptors are 17ppm

Warp Talons are 15ppm

I hope Raptors got a massive buff...

Also, I am confused by this whole buy the model (excluding wargear) stuff... Does that mean you have to build the squad completely or does it actually mean buy the model with basic wargear.

Because I don't want to have to pay 17pts for a Raptor, plus, X for a Pistol, plus X for a Chainsword, plus X for frag grenades, plus X for krak grenades, plus X for power armour, plus X for Jump pack.

I guess we need to see the list building process to get a proper answer.

I'm guessing you pay for all their base wargear along with the model, the "excluding wargear" will likely be for extra stuff.


Now that you mention Fallen I notice their cost: 14ppm, 1 more than CSM but 2 less than Chosen. Wonder what makes them different?

I do hope that "excluding wargear" is only the bonus stuff and you get the basic weapons included.

And I fully expect it to work lile that, but that seems like awkward wording without the context of list building as a whole.

Heretic Astartes Points Values:

Why is it important to mention the Chaos Lord/Chaos Sorcerer several times with different loadouts instead of giving each of them just one unit entry? It worked in the past. Is this some unfathomable AoS heresy?

They're scaling the most fundamental upgrades (TDA, mobility).

Weapons are going to have a standardized cost.

Good lord obliterators got nerfed. One of my favorite units, now completely random, and they don't have powerfists anymore which makes them useless in a charge. Assault 2? What the hell are you even supposed to do with this. They're barely gonna scratch heavy armor. Grrrr, with that rant out of the way.

Knights look nice, I'm happy with that, plus the variety of options for range weaponry.

I REALLY wanna see the Warp Talons points after the lightning claws, and maybe some special rules. I'm hoping they're actually gonna see the tabletop this year.

Teleporting doesn't scatter. My Raptor talon is about to stack bodies. This was killing my night lords, so with that sorta out, and assault from deepstrike, good things are about to happen there methinks.

I really wanna know the Helldrake's attack value, and see if he just became far more feasible as a close combat model. Baleflamer, plus an attack with maybe 4 Str 7 strikes? I could dig that.

Finally, is anyone else disappointed in the Psychic Disciplines so far?