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Made in es
Powerful Orc Big'Un




Vigo. Spain.

Azazelx, exalted! You couldn't have said it better and more mature and reasonable!

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Psychopomp wrote:

All I can do to respond to the original topic question is detail my thoughts and feelings after 5+ years away from ANY GW games and coming back for 40K 8e.

The local hype is exciting my sub-crowd of the old guard, because we remember how much fun we had with early, back-of-the-book-lists 3rd edition. I'm using the interest to finally get around to painting up the Chaos Space Marines I bought 15 years ago for a Codex: Eye of Terror listed Lost and the Damned force. I'm aiming for about 750 points, 1000 at the most, because in the years since I stopped playing 40K I've (re)learned to appreciate the company scale of around 3 squads, a characters, and a vehicle.

I'm probably going to be picking up the Index: Chaos because I'm tired of flipping through an Imgur album and magnifying individual pages to read the unit entries and then go hunting for the points. I may buy the Forgeworld Index for the Imperial Guard so I can use the 40 mutants I painted up over a decade ago, just to lose them when the next edition codex hit. But that's pretty much it. I'm not a big fan of the current GW aesthetic, because to me their "intricately detailed premium miniatures" really means "overwrought eyesores." Also, I thought maybe I'd like to add a Predator or Vindicator, and discovered that they're not damned near $60 USD. For the exact same kit I used to pay $35-40 for. Screw that.

One thing I'm definitely NOT doing is flogging off my other games, and certainly not Deadzone or Warpath. My return to 40K is a lark. Something to do with miniatures I wanted to paint for 15 years now. I'll try 8th edition; I hope I like it. But I'll stick to small points and probably to open and narrative play. If I don't like it, I'll just add these Chaos Marines to the pile of GW stuff I plan to flog on eBay anyway. What I WON'T do is get caught up in playing this weird 28mm Epic that 6th and 7th turned into. I'd rather play that at 6mm or 10mm, thanks. Hell, this might turn out to just be something to do while I wait from my GCPS vehicles from the Warpath Kickstarter to finally get produced and shipped.

My time away from GW has opened my eyes to what wargaming can (and in my opinion, should) be without a publicly-owned corporation with aspirations of global-scale marketing trying to dictate what my hobby should be. I'm not going to leave 'the competition' by any means, I'm just adding GW back in - on a sort of probation. That's all.



Excellent post!



At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money. 
   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




UK

I have to say that those who are bemoaning the full rule book being put in the new starter box have got it wrong,

while it may be annoying that it's pushed the price up (and they've no doubt got old rule books with the background in already

For new players the starter DOES need to have background information in it, it's what makes GW the cool kid on the block (when you're 12 anyway), it's a significant part of the reason they are still around when competitors with better rules have fallen away

so having that hook in the starter box is important to keep the new buyers interested...... Most of us spend far more time reading about 40K than actually playing after all

(and since the background has actually changed this time round even those of use who do have old rule books will probably find the new one worth having for the new background)

 
   
Made in de
Dakka Veteran




morgoth wrote:
It's the same price today if you adjust for inflation.
Starter sets are about 100 bucks and let two players start.
I think old players have this bias that 40K is minimum 1500 (or 2000) points, and that's also probably why there's a massive point cost inflation built into 8th: to help reset that "minimum size game".
Is it really or is that just a very recent thing? Haven't price comparisons (somewhere on dakkadakka even) shown that GW increased prices beyond inflation? And that on top of making rules that needed more miniatures with each edition while at the same time reducing the number of miniatures per box. I haven't bought GW stuff in some time but — even accounting for this being a niche luxury hobby that's a bit on the expensive side — GW's prices still look more out of line than what I remember (I roughly remember the price evolution from the mid 90s to about the mid 00s).

I think by 2010 they made Forgeworld prices look nearly reasonable (I prefer FW's crisper details and the less skullified aesthetic which justified the higher prices even more in this comparison).


   
Made in ca
Posts with Authority




I'm from the future. The future of space

Price increases being inline with inflation are going to depend on the point in time you pick. As well as the currency. There was a good 5 years where GW was doing across the board price increases well above the rate of inflation. Then they switched to a practice of only pricing the new releases higher and doing the occasional spot adjustment.

Currency fluctuations are also something very time based. From 2002 through 2008, countries like Australia and Canada had very strong currencies as resource prices were very high. They have since declined part way back to their pre-commodity boom levels. So if you make currency comparisons in GW prices at different times things can get skewed.

If I were to pick an arbitrary point in time, it would be when I first got back into 40k in the mid/late 90s. I'm getting back into 40k now, so if we say an even 20 years, then prices are looking pretty good.

Plastic squad box of space marines $28 for 10 2nd edition plastics. Monopose with flamer, missile launcher, no bits/options. In today's dollars: $40.48. The current tactical squad costs $50 but you get the missile launcher, flamer and 3 other special weapons and a combiweapon. As well as options for the squad leader.

If the comparison is for plastic tactical squad to plastic tactical squad, prices are higher than adjusted for inflation. If you want to count the weapon options and parts, then it's not. Metal special weapon guys were 2 for $13 and heavy weapon guys were 1 for $13.

Termigants were 6 for $16 in plastic 20 years ago. Flesh borers, monopose, not bits. Adjusted for inflation is 23.13 (~3.86 each) Now they are 12 for $34.75 (~2.90 each) but you can pose them a slight amount and you get spine fists, devourers, fleshborers and a ripper swarm base.

Start Collecting boxes are definitely less than inflation adjusted prices pretty much across the board, though I'm not sure what to compare things like plague drones too. Anything like that would have been a metal character/monster and would have been $28, 35 or 42 depending on how big it was.

A points system is a tool to create balance. Let's use it to intentionally seek out imbalance in order to win and then blame the game designer for it not working!  
   
 
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