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 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
the Dreamforge order just arrived, and the return address is in Utah. Wasn't he in Southern California last year? Not a good sign.

Wargames factory's US warehouse is in Utah, has been for years, wonder if they're handling some shipping since they manufacture for Dreamforge?

For WoK, I picked up Honor and Treachery for $12 or something, because the FLGS was clearing this out and said it was a first edition (?). I was actually kind of surprised that the detail of the plastic, while detailed, wasn't as detailed as I thought it would be. Massive Darkness figures, while obviously designed after HaT, have pretty much about the same detail, I'd say. Have the WoK plastics advanced since HaT was released? Thanks!

 Monkeysloth wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
the Dreamforge order just arrived, and the return address is in Utah. Wasn't he in Southern California last year? Not a good sign.

Wargames factory's US warehouse is in Utah, has been for years, wonder if they're handling some shipping since they manufacture for Dreamforge?

That’s the spot where they shipped the Kickstarter from originally. I don’t think he ever took over and started a separate facility.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Game Kastle's Cyber Monday deals seem to be their regular clearance, at least to my untrained eyes.

These CMON sales remind me of some of FRP's regular sales, and the ridiculous loot I've walked away with in the past.

Game Kastle has lots of actual sale prices, I posted a list above in this thread (Mierce at 50% off, Warlord at 50% off, etc)

FYI Game Kastle is the FLGS and frpgames WAS the online store - now both merged under the Game Kastle brand - for Golden Distribution.

 judgedoug wrote:
So apparently The War Store advertised and sold a ton of stuff they did not actually have inventory for. I just got an email saying that it is "looking unlikely" that 80% of my order will be fulfilled.

I am tempted to cancel the entire order, ask them to delete my account, file a fraud complaint with my credit card, and forever recommend that people do not shop with them.

Their service in the last few years has been exceptionally medicore, often veering into downright terrible. I miss the 2000's War Store. Lack of live inventory, selling things they can't get, and taking weeks to ship is unacceptable in the modern era of Miniature Market, Cool Stuff Inc, and, hell, every other online store out there that shows live inventory and ships same or next day and, y'know, won't lie to you.

I specifically did not shop at other online retailers and specifically didn't spend money on other things because I had already ordered with The War Store, so not only does it look like I'm not getting what I paid for but I passed up every other opportunity to purchase the same things at discount from other retailers (including my own FLGS' Small Business Saturday sale).

I'm really curious what happened here. Did they give any explanation? Did Neal try to "make it right"? What were they out of stock on, GW?


This is really surprising because TWS always seemed like the more reliable, less shady option in online wargaming, the Joe Friday to Miniature Market's Tom Hanks.

I'm guessing it must have been stuff that's no longer in production or they'd just have ordered it in and shipped later

unless they were really messing him about?

I almost went with some Game Kastle stuff yesterday but then realized their prices are inflated then discounted, so the savings were minimal at best (advertising a $7.50 item as MSRP of $9.95 and then discounting it, etc.). Shame as I was looking forward to a new decent online shop.

They're not as bad as NobleKnight, but that kind of practice puts me off.

 Elbows wrote:
I almost went with some Game Kastle stuff yesterday but then realized their prices are inflated then discounted, so the savings were minimal at best (advertising a $7.50 item as MSRP of $9.95 and then discounting it, etc.). Shame as I was looking forward to a new decent online shop.

They're not as bad as NobleKnight, but that kind of practice puts me off.

Which product was it? I ordered a 40k Predator on sale for $14 and some OOP JR miniatures terrain for a few dollars. All the 50% off Warlord stuff is definitely 50% off Warlord's current MSRP as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BobtheInquisitor wrote:I'm really curious what happened here. Did they give any explanation? Did Neal try to "make it right"? What were they out of stock on, GW?
This is really surprising because TWS always seemed like the more reliable, less shady option in online wargaming, the Joe Friday to Miniature Market's Tom Hanks.

OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:I'm guessing it must have been stuff that's no longer in production or they'd just have ordered it in and shipped later

I'm waiting to get full confirmation before I post my entire experience. In fact, the unavailable GW items are still available from GW. I can order them right now from GW, but, you know, without a discount.

I feel like they did the old Black Friday trick of having one of each mega discounted item in stock (50 inch TV for $99! *minimum one per store) to get you into the store and spending money. But their awful online store let everyone buy the items without actually having any stock.

Game Kastle has the Warlord Games "New model Army Set for $60.00 discounted to $54. Its listed at $48 on Warlords site.. I had an issue with FRP games back in the day. They had an item for sale and when my shipment was sent out I got an email saying that the one item was not available. My card had already been charged. I asked if I could switch with another item that was the same price... They agreed but then charged me shipping on it... I thought it was kind of unfair because it was their error, they charged me for it despite not having it, and shipped the rest of the order before letting me know...

Anyway there were plenty of other options so I haven't ordered from them since.... that was 2 or 3 years back...

 Smokestack wrote:
Game Kastle has the Warlord Games "New model Army Set for $60.00 discounted to $54. Its listed at $48 on Warlords site.. I had an issue with FRP games back in the day. They had an item for sale and when my shipment was sent out I got an email saying that the one item was not available. My card had already been charged. I asked if I could switch with another item that was the same price... They agreed but then charged me shipping on it... I thought it was kind of unfair because it was their error, they charged me for it despite not having it, and shipped the rest of the order before letting me know...

Anyway there were plenty of other options so I haven't ordered from them since.... that was 2 or 3 years back...

That is completely unacceptable. Did you ask them to refund the shipping? If so, what did they say? You could even fight the charge with your CC since you did not approve additional shipping.

When did wargame sellers decide they didn't have to follow standard retail practices?

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Smokestack wrote:
Game Kastle has the Warlord Games "New model Army Set for $60.00 discounted to $54. Its listed at $48 on Warlords site.. I had an issue with FRP games back in the day. They had an item for sale and when my shipment was sent out I got an email saying that the one item was not available. My card had already been charged. I asked if I could switch with another item that was the same price... They agreed but then charged me shipping on it... I thought it was kind of unfair because it was their error, they charged me for it despite not having it, and shipped the rest of the order before letting me know...

Anyway there were plenty of other options so I haven't ordered from them since.... that was 2 or 3 years back...

That is completely unacceptable. Did you ask them to refund the shipping? If so, what did they say? You could even fight the charge with your CC since you did not approve additional shipping.

When did wargame sellers decide they didn't have to follow standard retail practices?

I just let it go. I figured it wasn't worth the fight. But It did lose them a customer.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
CMON still has the Cyber Monday prices for anyone who missed it yesterday.

Doug,

It was a number of 4Ground acrylic items which were advertised a good 20-30% above what they sell for directly from 4Ground (and were then discounted to a small amount beneath it).

I didn't do much searching after that. When a shop lists something like that, I immediately leave the page and they don't get business.

Again, not as bad as Nobleknight, but as a rule I don't shop at places like that.

 Elbows wrote:
I almost went with some Game Kastle stuff yesterday but then realized their prices are inflated then discounted, so the savings were minimal at best (advertising a $7.50 item as MSRP of $9.95 and then discounting it, etc.). Shame as I was looking forward to a new decent online shop.

They're not as bad as NobleKnight, but that kind of practice puts me off.

Game Kastle is generally full retail price, at least that's how it has always been in store.

FRP was one of my go-to sites when shopping. Never had a problem with them, and sometimes had things show up next day.

I never had a clue that the two were related until the merger. It will be interesting to see if the Game kastle site starts to run deals closer to how FRP did. But, I can certainly save on shipping since I can pick up in store now.

Only hint I had was that FRPGames was in the same city as one of the GK stores. I had good customer service from them. I showed a paint bottle that leaked and was from a paint set, and they sent me a replacement set. I'm guessing that the $10 shipping hurt them compared to other OLGS. Miniature Market, CoolStuffInc, and Cardhause not only offer free shipping, but cater to boardgamers, who have more money than miniature gamers, and don't need as many SKU's to sink inventory into. Anyway, I picked up a Dad's Army miniatures set, which sold for $50 on eBay, for $35, and an Army Painter The Others paint set, MSRP $20, for $7.50. Free pickup at one of the SF Bay Area stores.

CMON's was the best. Army Painter paints for sixty cents and Dark Sword miniatures for under $2. Didn't buy the mini's because I found the AP Hobby Kit at $6 was cheaper than most of the parts individually on Amazon, and got Krosmaster Quest for $27 from $90 MSRP. (Picked up figures on the Japanime closeout.) Also found an obscure Dark Sword miniature that I've been wanting for 5 years now. I didn't even buy anything on Monday, and still dropped $50. Shipping price of $6 is *way* better than KS and miniature store websites, so I know where I'll be buying mini's in bulk!

I remember talking up the CMON sale last year around here. I figured since it's a bit 40k centric it may have fallen a bit on deaf ears.

I really hope they see with reasonable prices, people show a lot more interest in their game.

Some ridiculous FRP sale highlights include a LOTR War Mumak for 20 bucks, Dystopian Wars army boxes for under 5 dollars, or the 8 dollar Terminator Genesis boxed game.

 Elbows wrote:
Doug,

It was a number of 4Ground acrylic items which were advertised a good 20-30% above what they sell for directly from 4Ground (and were then discounted to a small amount beneath it).

I didn't do much searching after that. When a shop lists something like that, I immediately leave the page and they don't get business.

4Ground has no "official" US Distributor and therefore no US MSRP. This is why people charge whatever the hell they want for Sarissa, 4Ground, Perry, Renedra, Mierce, etc, because it's based on whatever exchange rate it was when they brought the line in. We've been benefiting the sweeeet low exchange rate for the pound so ordering direct for everyone is just cheaper.

For example why the hell would you order from Brigade Games when you can order from Artizan/North Star direct from the UK, have VAT removed, and even with shipping, it's cheaper!

Actually, I think Golden/frp/GK is the only distributor in the USA that carries 4ground, apart from the extraordinarily limited selection Warlord carries.

If you want to see REAL bad prices, you should see some of the tiny companies in the US that are distributors for tiny UK companies. gak like $18 a pack for a £8 pack.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Smokestack wrote:
Game Kastle has the Warlord Games "New model Army Set for $60.00 discounted to $54. Its listed at $48 on Warlords site.. I had an issue with FRP games back in the day. They had an item for sale and when my shipment was sent out I got an email saying that the one item was not available. My card had already been charged. I asked if I could switch with another item that was the same price... They agreed but then charged me shipping on it... I thought it was kind of unfair because it was their error, they charged me for it despite not having it, and shipped the rest of the order before letting me know...

Anyway there were plenty of other options so I haven't ordered from them since.... that was 2 or 3 years back...

Weird on that one. Definitely everything else is MSRP (minus 50%). Like $80 tank platoons for $40. Killer deals.

I also have had trouble with frp games in the past, but with a little persistence they came thru in the end. I've noticed they since upgraded to a modern CRM so they can actually track customer service issues. I remember their End of the World sale was the biggest cluster ever.







Automatically Appended Next Post:

SO! Here is the conclusion to my The War Store drama.

For those that were unfamiliar, the preamble is thus: TWS launched a sale with some super discounted high value items. I added those to my cart, along with a ton of impulse buy cheap items (dice, paints, etc), and checked out, my card was charged, etc, all on Nov 23. I asked the status of my order on Nov 27 to see when it would be shipping. I was informed that the high value items were actually not available.

After the website allowed me to add the items to my cart, allowed me to check out, and allowed me to pay for them, and after TWS had my money for, what, 5 or 6 days, they are NOT going to actually send me the items I was able to, and did, purchase from them.

The excuse is that because the items said they are "Limited" in the product description, that there was no guarantee I would get them.

It feels like a gross bait-and-switch where I was lured with a fantastic sale on a few items and also bought several additional items - cuz why not? - only to have the items I came there to get be "Limited". I wouldn't be surprised to learn that they had qty 1 on-hand in order to draw in traffic. But the other junk items are certainly still available to ship! It reminds me of greasy sales such as 'Come to Wal-Mart for a $99 50" TV, but the fine print says "1 per store".'

There is one of two reasons why this happened: a total lack of live inventory controls on their website, or malicious bait-and-switch tactics. Either is completely inexcusable and unacceptable in this era. The fact that the Talons box set is STILL AVAILABLE from GW and to fulfill the order that I paid for, leads me to believe it is the latter. It could be ordered and sent to me, easily. They have no desire to actually send me the item that I was able to order and then paid for.

They offered to send the remaining few items with free shipping, but to be honest, the taste in my mouth is so foul that I don't even want the other impulse-buy things. Great, thirty bucks of dice and paints to help you clear trash out your warehouse. At this point, no thanks.

I will never, ever again shop from The War Store and I encourage others to do the same.

Sounds like a classic case of penny wise and pound foolish. They got a $30 sale, but lost a bunch of repeat customers. Where's the celebrity testimonial for that?


Anyway, this Black Friday turned out to be much more exciting than I had expected. Besides Neal's dramatic Face-Heel-Turn, Dreamforge, CMON and PP all had amazing deals that gave me a to opportunity to buy items that had languished on my wish list for years.

I've been shopping from Neal for 15 years and never had an issue. Maybe a badly designed sale, but I doubt there was much malice in it.

I'm wrestling with making a repeat purchase to CMON for more Wrath of Kings stuff.

Those prices are far too tempting...

Is the sale still going? Flat rate shipping at $6 almost encourages multiple purchases.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Elbows wrote:
I've been shopping from Neal for 15 years and never had an issue. Maybe a badly designed sale, but I doubt there was much malice in it.

Maybe not, but if his attempt to make it right was what Doug said, it shows a real lack of concern or ability for customer service. I assume the last few years have been very lean for Neal to get to that point, but the lack of intent wouldn't make the outcome any different for the customer.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
I've been shopping from Neal for 15 years and never had an issue. Maybe a badly designed sale, but I doubt there was much malice in it.

Maybe not, but if his attempt to make it right was what Doug said, it shows a real lack of concern or ability for customer service. I assume the last few years have been very lean for Neal to get to that point, but the lack of intent wouldn't make the outcome any different for the customer.

@Elbows, my account has been open for ten years and a good amount of orders as well. And I had an account on an older email address in the early 2000's too. I may have only ordered like once or twice a year for a couple hundred bucks a year, going back ten or fifteen years, so I wasn't the biggest customer, but I did feel a little loyalty to the place.

He has subsequently apologized and said to me that was not the intent. " It certainly was not an attempt to get people in the door with low priced items, but just a mistake. Normally the limited tag and the operations of the shopping cart are enough to keep limited things from overselling. In this instance it was not, and I do apologize." Even with the offer of free shipping on the remaining pants and dice, I just canceled the rest of the junk. I hope this encounter sticks with him enough to invest in a live-inventory system that every other retailer has had for fifteen years, so that it won't allow you to purchase items that actually don't exist. (honestly how does a LIMITED word in the description make people NOT buy an item even FASTER?)

The fact that the Talons box is STILL on GW's site for sale, and instead of honoring the sale (a true, put in my shopping cart, check out, pay for it, charge goes through on credit card, sale... not a "wish I got it!" kind of thing) by ordering it from his GW rep or from their trade account log in and then shipping it to me, he'd rather just lose me. That really rubs me the wrong way. Especially, especially, as I didn't go to my FLGS sale on Small Business Saturday, who had those same things in stock on the shelf, and what amounted to a 30% off sale, so I could have gotten all the canceled TWS items for about ten bucks more at my FLGS. But I would have actually, you know, gotten the items that I paid for. _IF_ TWS had a functionite site, _IF_ TWS had told me by the 25th that they couldn't get the items (so I could go buy them at FLGS SBS), _IF_ they offered to try to get them, _IF_ the only reason I found out was because I had to email them... it's just a lot of failures, man. I'm done with them.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Is the sale still going? Flat rate shipping at $6 almost encourages multiple purchases.

CMON sale goes until Dec 24. They are definitely shedding all of the product lines as they switch to manufacturing/publishing versus a retail store.

 Elbows wrote:
I've been shopping from Neal for 15 years and never had an issue. Maybe a badly designed sale, but I doubt there was much malice in it.

I have never had an issue but that is only because I noticed there is "Regular Stock" and "Available". Having dealt with this with Wayland back in the day, I noticed there was a difference between the two so I emailed them. This was because I knew something was out at the distributor and manufacturer level. They listed a few items at "Regular Stock". Instead of ordering I emailed them to ask about it.

The response was:

Regular stocks means it is here or I can get it quickly. What is the sku number of the item?

Regular Stock are things they order from a distributor, that can get to them quickly. However since I knew this item wasn't available at all, I didn't order. However, it will let you add it to a cart, check out and pay for it. If something isn't available from the distributor, I understand it isn't completely their fault. It can feel like a bait and switch but it isn't intended to be. I get that. But I do think there needs to be a clarification on the page and at check out, that it could take time to get instead of treating it like any other "Available" item which is actually in stock.

What ever happened to tabletopnow? they were are decent site for deals.

Game Kastle used to be a different online site either that or they bought them out. I still buy from them but the old site had a max of $10 shipping which was nice and had more regular sales/ bargins.

Places that offer free shipping if you buy more then X amount or usually where i shop the shipping for CA to FL usually offsets the savings quite a bit.

@judgedoug. I have the same problem with Atomic Empire (used to be Scifi Genre) every time I place an order thru them they don't have one or two of the items that were "in stock" while i paid for them and they can never get them in a reasonable time. After a month or so they message me and ask if i still want the items. Most of the time i have already found them and cancel that aspect of my order.

 judgedoug wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
I've been shopping from Neal for 15 years and never had an issue. Maybe a badly designed sale, but I doubt there was much malice in it.

Maybe not, but if his attempt to make it right was what Doug said, it shows a real lack of concern or ability for customer service. I assume the last few years have been very lean for Neal to get to that point, but the lack of intent wouldn't make the outcome any different for the customer.

@Elbows, my account has been open for ten years and a good amount of orders as well. And I had an account on an older email address in the early 2000's too. I may have only ordered like once or twice a year for a couple hundred bucks a year, going back ten or fifteen years, so I wasn't the biggest customer, but I did feel a little loyalty to the place.

He has subsequently apologized and said to me that was not the intent. " It certainly was not an attempt to get people in the door with low priced items, but just a mistake. Normally the limited tag and the operations of the shopping cart are enough to keep limited things from overselling. In this instance it was not, and I do apologize." Even with the offer of free shipping on the remaining pants and dice, I just canceled the rest of the junk. I hope this encounter sticks with him enough to invest in a live-inventory system that every other retailer has had for fifteen years, so that it won't allow you to purchase items that actually don't exist. (honestly how does a LIMITED word in the description make people NOT buy an item even FASTER?)

The fact that the Talons box is STILL on GW's site for sale, and instead of honoring the sale (a true, put in my shopping cart, check out, pay for it, charge goes through on credit card, sale... not a "wish I got it!" kind of thing) by ordering it from his GW rep or from their trade account log in and then shipping it to me, he'd rather just lose me. That really rubs me the wrong way. Especially, especially, as I didn't go to my FLGS sale on Small Business Saturday, who had those same things in stock on the shelf, and what amounted to a 30% off sale, so I could have gotten all the canceled TWS items for about ten bucks more at my FLGS. But I would have actually, you know, gotten the items that I paid for. _IF_ TWS had a functionite site, _IF_ TWS had told me by the 25th that they couldn't get the items (so I could go buy them at FLGS SBS), _IF_ they offered to try to get them, _IF_ the only reason I found out was because I had to email them... it's just a lot of failures, man. I'm done with them.

That's odd because ordering from GW for you is exactly what the shipping page that their Black Friday and Cyber Monday email flyers said they would do.

http://www.thewarstore.com/black-friday-inventory-information.html?utm_source=TheWarStore&utm_campaign=8e3be83cb3-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2017_11_27&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_a3cca9318e-8e3be83cb3-22994157

Rest assured all of our suppliers will be getting a Purchase Order at the close of the Black Friday Sale - bright and early Tuesday morning.  It is their favorite part of the sale!   Do NOT be afraid to order out of stock and special order items  -- Restock, even from International suppliers, should be quick!  If it is on our site and the manufacturers have it instock, we will get it for you!

I didn't do much hobby shopping on Black Friday or Cyber Monday this year, aside from finally using the few dollars in points I had at MM.Trying to focus on actually getting stuff painted and games played. The WoK sale at CMON was really tempting though.

Prestor Jon wrote:

That's odd because ordering from GW for you is exactly what the shipping page that their Black Friday and Cyber Monday email flyers said they would do.

http://www.thewarstore.com/black-friday-inventory-information.html?utm_source=TheWarStore&utm_campaign=8e3be83cb3-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2017_11_27&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_a3cca9318e-8e3be83cb3-22994157

Rest assured all of our suppliers will be getting a Purchase Order at the close of the Black Friday Sale - bright and early Tuesday morning.  It is their favorite part of the sale!   Do NOT be afraid to order out of stock and special order items  -- Restock, even from International suppliers, should be quick!  If it is on our site and the manufacturers have it instock, we will get it for you!

I didn't do much hobby shopping on Black Friday or Cyber Monday this year, aside from finally using the few dollars in points I had at MM.Trying to focus on actually getting stuff painted and games played. The WoK sale at CMON was really tempting though.

Righto, so do you see how frustrating this experience has been for me?

I would like to take this opportunity to praise MINISTOMP. I emailed them telling them what happened with The War Store and they were able to source one of the two items and effectively matched TWS's price. TWS has lost a customer but Ministomp has gained one.

Miniature Market was kind of a bust for me but I did get a ton of stuff from CMON sale - lots of Army Painter sprays plus a Goritsi army for a buddy for Xmas and finished up the Teknes army that I had gotten. Tempted to grab starters for the other factions or at least Hadross.

Have those of you who ordered from the CMON sale received your orders, yet ? I placed mine on November 28th, the day after the sale launched and STILL have yet to receive it. I've contacted their customer service, several times, and am replied to with a canned answer of "overwhelming sales" and "sorry for the delay".
Taking over a month, and counting, to ship is ridiculous !

From BGG:

"I messaged CMON via Facebook about their shipping schedule during the holidays and Just received this response:

"Hi Mark, The Customer Support team won't be doing any shipping during that period, but they will be back at it on January 8th. Thanks! ^Sean""


So they took a 2 week vacation from shipping out orders despite being a month behind on fulfillment.

Thank you, judgedoug.

Wow !! That is pathetic. I knew they were shutting the online store down for "annual inventory" but to cease all shipping when behind, and during the holidays, is crap service.

Good deal or not I doubt I'll order from them again. I received orders I placed from Poland and Croatia delivered before this one. CMON left me having to give IOU's for Xmas presents. Not cool at all !!

Even in the best of times, the CMON warehouse is ridiculously slow in shipping things out.


And this is true now, even after they 'fixed' this known issue.

So yeah, this is not good.

Especially as their online shop is often the only place to find some/most of the Dark Age and Wrath of Kings lines...

 Myrthe wrote:
Good deal or not I doubt I'll order from them again. I received orders I placed from Poland and Croatia delivered before this one. CMON left me having to give IOU's for Xmas presents. Not cool at all !!

That is weak sauce on CMON's part. I am still waiting on my Black Friday order, but it was just crap for me so I thankfully do not have anyone's gift held up. Still annoyed by the delay, and the excuse I received over the phone from their rep of "we didn't expect the demand" seems a bit disingenuous. If you are discounting boutique figures up to 80%, you should probably expect a response from customers.

I won't say I won't buy from them again if the discounts are deep enough, but I guess CMON is the new Battle Foam in that you have to consider any Black Friday purchases made as items you'll receive after the New Year.

Just curious, how long before people start asking for refunds?

I am giving them until the 12th of January and if I don't receive a shipping notification I am going to Paypal.