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xxhikaru123, if I may ask a few questions, I was wondering if they changed summoning rules at all. If not, did they lower some of the greater deamons power level so summoning them was actually possible? If not finally, is there a stratagem that helps with summoning, or a relic, or something?

 BoomWolf wrote:
I hope blue and brimes can shoot now, or cost a bit less, otherwise this overnerf kills them.

Return Brims to 2ppm, make Blues 3-4 and give them no shooting. They just act as shields, and I'm completely fine with it.

 Cephalobeard wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
I hope blue and brimes can shoot now, or cost a bit less, otherwise this overnerf kills them.

Return Brims to 2ppm, make Blues 3-4 and give them no shooting. They just act as shields, and I'm completely fine with it.

That would be fine. But it sounds as if it's not the case.

Agreed. Here's hoping we can get some clarification on Split and the other lil guys soon.

Are Soul Grinders still crap?

 BoomWolf wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
I hope blue and brimes can shoot now, or cost a bit less, otherwise this overnerf kills them.

Return Brims to 2ppm, make Blues 3-4 and give them no shooting. They just act as shields, and I'm completely fine with it.

That would be fine. But it sounds as if it's not the case.

Yeah, I’d be very surprised if it was anything but a straight nerf. It definitely follows the OP-> overnerfed pattern

Spoletta wrote:
It's highly likely.

Space marines rules are based on the adeptus astartes keyword, but it applies only to codex compliant SM.

Tyranid rules are based on the tyranid keyword but don't apply to the Cult.

These rules will probably be based on the Demon keyword, without applying to CSM demons.

Hopefully not, I actually enjoyed the synergies that the various CSM daemons had with CD.

OP UPDATED WITH COMPILED RUMORS / LEAKS.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Spoletta wrote:
It's highly likely.

Space marines rules are based on the adeptus astartes keyword, but it applies only to codex compliant SM.

Tyranid rules are based on the tyranid keyword but don't apply to the Cult.

These rules will probably be based on the Demon keyword, without applying to CSM demons.

Hopefully not, I actually enjoyed the synergies that the various CSM daemons had with CD.

Tyranid Synapse auras have been based on the <HIVE FLEET> keyword from day one. BEHEMOTH Warriors have never been able to control GORGON Termagants.

Tyranid psychic powers were and still are based on the TYRANIDS keyword. The Codex and Index FAQs make no mention of GSC being excluded from this. KRAKEN Zoanthropes can cast Catalyst on GENESTEALER CULTS Leman Russ tanks. EDIT: WRONG.mpg.exe

The wording of the new Codex teasers does put a question mark over the continued existence of de facto HA Daemonkin. Fingers crossed we can still bounce buffs between the two Chaos codices, but don’t bet the farm on it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hmm. Wonder if Miasma of Pestilence will be one per turn. And if not, can it stack on the same unit? An army of Characters behind a horde of DG Possessed at -3 to be hit could be fun

If i remember correctly though, GSC cannot use tyranids stratagems.

They cannot, correct.

So the nerf to brims will be in the next CSM faq? or will it will they nerf them there.. will it be in CA2018

ugh i'm starting to find 8th a bit hard to follow

The new beast of Nurgle actually have a lot in common with the last generations beast of Nurgle. It astounds me that so many seem to hate the old beast of Nurgle but praise the new, they both have the same type of body and exactly the same arm pose just reversed. I guess what people didn't like about the old beast was that it only had one pose... Oh guess what, the new one also only has one pose! I guess that's what 40 years of expertise gets you.

Ah, going through the FAQ line by line, I see the Catalyst Leman Russ is indeed forbade by semantics.

I wish they’d got all this sorted out at the proof reading stage, I guess we’ll have a meaty FAQ/errata before spring.

Any changes to Skull Cannons or Thrones? Bloodcrushers? Flesh Hounds?

Khorne focus

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/01/02/faction-focus-daemons-of-khornegw-homepage-post-4/

FudgeDumper wrote:
The new beast of Nurgle actually have a lot in common with the last generations beast of Nurgle. It astounds me that so many seem to hate the old beast of Nurgle but praise the new, they both have the same type of body and exactly the same arm pose just reversed. I guess what people didn't like about the old beast was that it only had one pose... Oh guess what, the new one also only has one pose! I guess that's what 40 years of expertise gets you.

Because the new one looks like a fun characterful model and the old one looks like a bland, boring, mess.
The new one also has different heads, bellys, tentacles and arms. Allowing some customisation.
Also being plastic, it would be very easy to alter further if you desire.

But essentially for me the new model is a good representation of the fluff. Where as the old one is not.

Appears to verify the rumors.

Wolf_in_Human_Shape wrote:Any changes to Skull Cannons or Thrones? Bloodcrushers? Flesh Hounds?

zamerion wrote:Khorne focus

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/01/02/faction-focus-daemons-of-khornegw-homepage-post-4/

Well timed Also that Skullreaver flub

Very excited to see what non-BT upgrades the book brings, as I've never really cared for the big red dudes (and 8E is pretty unkind to large single melee models). Guessing that mostly means pimping out princes (4++ & deny isn't a bad start), but curious what heralds will get.

Also add a +1 to Blood Throne and Skull Cannon info

- Salvage

kaptin_Blacksquigg wrote:

xxhikaru123 wrote:

Tzeetch
WC8. nearest enemy model wihtin 12, that model's unit and every other unit (friend or foe) within 3' of that model , suffers d3 MW. Suffer D6 MW, if power manifested with more than psychic roll of 12+.

I love this power, especially if Tzeetch have some buffs to casting rolls. One of the thing really lacking in this addition is a way to punished units clumped together. 2-3 casts of this will take out an entire clump of units/characters. (1-2 if you manage to get 12+). Can see it hitting 5+ units quite consistently and/or making your opponent think twice about clustering units.

Its situational, it says within 3 of the target model not unit. So the majority of the time your hitting a screening unit and measuring from silly Bobs base not the whole unit. This makes it an expensive smite basically.

Khorne faction focus doesn't give the weapon profile of the new relic skullreaver -.- what a tease

Updated OP with the Khorne info. Will update again when the jokers at GW give us the artifact's stat line.

Im glad that they are making BTs more powerfull instead of just cheaper. Give me good value for my money, GW!

This codex could very well break the game. We need more info on the deep strike strat, is it multi-use and what keywords does it affect. Imagine a Magnarion list with both those boys in reserve, T1 use the invul strat on Morty and cast Miasma, and on Magnus weavers. I can't see a single list that even stands a chance to kill them if these strats affect Daemon keyword. Also if the rumours are to be believe then it looks to be like Tzeentch got gutted, brims down to a 6++ and the Changling being nerfed into the ground, although there will be more variety with exalteds looking interesting as anti-tank in a chaos infantry army that eschews tanks.

Brimstones being 6++ and Changeling giving 6+++ isn't exactly "nerfed into the ground". I'm in the top 10 of the ITC for Daemons and use almost exclusively Tzeentch daemons, and I have quite a few ideas for how to move forward.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Brimstones being 6++ and Changeling giving 6+++ isn't exactly "nerfed into the ground". I'm in the top 10 of the ITC for Daemons and use almost exclusively Tzeentch daemons, and I have quite a few ideas for how to move forward.

I'd like to hear your ideas if ya don't mind. In my mind I only used Tzeentch daemons up to now for the Brims 4++ and -1 from Changling. Maybe nerfed into the ground is wrong but without those cheap 4++ saves and changling all my old uses for tzeentch have gone.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Brimstones being 6++ and Changeling giving 6+++ isn't exactly "nerfed into the ground". I'm in the top 10 of the ITC for Daemons and use almost exclusively Tzeentch daemons, and I have quite a few ideas for how to move forward.

Yeah, but ITC plays very different from 40K.

- First Strike instead of First Blood
- Maelstrom in every mission
- CA first turn rules applied to BRB missions as well
- etc..

All these nerf more elite armies that thrive in old school Relic missions, etc.. and favour more board control, larger detachments for more command points, etc..

It's not really 40K anymore these days.

In this example, Brimstones as troop fillers are much more likely to give away a non-first-strikeable-first-blood-point against a low drop army getting auto-first turn in a non-CA mission for example. All those ITC houserules really play in their favour, as losing first turn is less likely, loosing first blood less dramatic if you have first strike and the upsides of having more board control and command points thus lack their balancing downsides.

It appears they are buffing the other Tzentch daemons. Brimstones and the changelibg deserved a nerf.
To be honest, you shouldnt be able to use units of brimstoess and blues. Make two cost for pinks, 7ppm without spliting, 10-11ppm spliting.

 dan2026 wrote:

FudgeDumper wrote:
The new beast of Nurgle actually have a lot in common with the last generations beast of Nurgle. It astounds me that so many seem to hate the old beast of Nurgle but praise the new, they both have the same type of body and exactly the same arm pose just reversed. I guess what people didn't like about the old beast was that it only had one pose... Oh guess what, the new one also only has one pose! I guess that's what 40 years of expertise gets you.

Because the new one looks like a fun characterful model and the old one looks like a bland, boring, mess.
The new one also has different heads, bellys, tentacles and arms. Allowing some customisation.
Also being plastic, it would be very easy to alter further if you desire.

But essentially for me the new model is a good representation of the fluff. Where as the old one is not.

All your points are complete blasphemy.

Point 1: Son, this is not Pokemon. I'm not trying to argue that the new model is bad, I'm saying its a very expensive single pose model which you will need multiples of. And last generations beast also had a lot of character, its only flaw being a single pose, just like the new one.

Point 2: Oh please, didn't you see the reveal videos? The different face/stomach options is a band aid and it is so obvious its sad.

Point 3: A non argument. If GW had made the new beast of Nurgle out of dog poop it would have been even easier to convert. The new model's body is also a single segment so good luck with any conversions.

Point 4: Totally invalid seeing as both models are basically just fat snails with 2 appendages and a bunch of tentacles on the head. This is proof of your biased stance.


Stop trying to defend a point just for the sake of defending. GW messed up, period.

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Brimstones being 6++ and Changeling giving 6+++ isn't exactly "nerfed into the ground". I'm in the top 10 of the ITC for Daemons and use almost exclusively Tzeentch daemons, and I have quite a few ideas for how to move forward.

Yeah, but ITC plays very different from 40K.

- First Strike instead of First Blood
- Maelstrom in every mission
- CA first turn rules applied to BRB missions as well
- etc..

All these nerf more elite armies that thrive in old school Relic missions, etc.. and favour more board control, larger detachments for more command points, etc..

It's not really 40K anymore these days.

In this example, Brimstones as troop fillers are much more likely to give away a non-first-strikeable-first-blood-point against a low drop army getting auto-first turn in a non-CA mission for example. All those ITC houserules really play in their favour, as losing first turn is less likely, loosing first blood less dramatic if you have first strike and the upsides of having more board control and command points thus lack their balancing downsides.

I understand your major points, but you are aware the ITC is not an all encompassing format, yes?

You can use whatever rule set you like, including book missions. Hell, my local shop does that sometimes. They have their own missions the guys in CA use, absolutely, but you're not in any way required to. In the last two years I've never even used their "Champions" Missions.

Edit: Forgive me, that's neither here nor there. Let's stick to the Rumors.