Switch Theme:

What does white privilege mean?  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in se
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Formosa wrote:

You guys are great, so again I’m a nazi because I disagree with your world view, this is awesome, I have never been proven correct so quickly.


This is yet more of the evasive, dishonest tactics that the article I linked to details. None of us here have claimed that you are a nazi because you "disagree with our world view", we think that the way you use terms and the arguments you raise are incongruent with leftist ideologies which lead us to believe that you have never been a leftist.
   
Made in nl
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






 Formosa wrote:
 Iron_Captain wrote:
Rosebuddy wrote:
 Formosa wrote:
From the research I’ve done (for myself) and looking at both sides it “seems” (as in I am not certain for those of you who don’t understand the word) like this is all the result of a wave of Marxism disguised as the left, modern feminism, social justice, intersectionality etc. Are all symptoms of the regressive (not progressive, there is nothing progressive about these people) left trying to divide people to gain power, socially and politically.

I have seen time and time again these same arguments put forward with little to no evidence, they use lies and obfuscation to push thier regressive agenda, claiming the usual “isms” to stop free speech, even going so far as to attack each other if they are not “left” enough.

This behaviour has led even moderate people like myself to become policital, to push back at the extreme leftists who are poisoning the communities we belong to, I was a lefty, quite far left, until these people came along, my ideals haven’t shifted much but because they are so extreme, I’m basically centre left in comparison.

The worst casualty of the whole social justice debacle is the people they claim to want to help, through their efforts at censorship they have hurt the freedom of speech, which in turn hurts people being able to talk about these issues, their attempts and success of de podiuming people they disagree with is just as bad.

Another fundamental problem they have is a lack of clear principles, they are such a disparate group held together by Marxism that they end up fighting amongst themselves as they don’t see others as “pure” enough for that cause, if you are black and disagree you are a “race traitor” if you are white you have “white privilege” etc. It would be laughable if it wasn’t so dangerous.

This kind of toxicity has spread through a lot of “geek” industries, comics, movies and is encroaching on tabletop gaming now, like most of the western world there has been a concerted push back against these people, the rise of the right is almost completely down to the rise of the far left, people are tired of rhetoric, they find the ideal laudable, who doesn’t want equality, but the people behind those ideals have poisoned the well, they are no longer trusted in what they say, thier actions too have led to a fall in trust.

So long as the left keeps letting these extremists speak for them, they will continue to lose ground to the right, sadly the far leftists usually lack the moral integrity to admit they are wrong and double down on thier brand of racism/sexism etc. Flying in the face of science, flying in the face of facts, they continue to ignore the proof they are provided or distort it to suit thier narrative. One of my favourite quotes from these people is

“I don’t care about your facts, it’s just your opinion”

Let that sink in, it’s pretty crazy on the face of it.


I don't think that you ever were a leftist at all. Nobody who was ever a communist, a socialist or an anarchist would use the term "Marxism" like you do here. Well, nobody who ever understood what being a leftist means would use the term "Marxism" like you do. So either you're lying about it or you never actually were a leftist due to not understanding it and/or hanging with a group of people who didn't understand it. The latter wouldn't be too unusual, unfortunately, because leftist organisations have been in a shoddy state for a while now.

Exactly. The way he is using 'Marxism', is 'cultural Marxism', aka an 'ideology' that was invented by the Nazi propaganda machine back in the Weimar Republic as a strawman to attack their leftist opponents. It has nothing to do with actual Marxism, there is no such thing as 'cultural Marxism' (actually there is, but it refers to something completely different). Actual Marxism is quite different from what you seem to believe it to be. (hint: if it is not about class struggle and dialectical materialism, it is not actually Marxism). Marxists not do not occupy themselves much with issues such as gender or racial discrimination, since they believe those to be mere symptoms of the larger class struggle. In particular, they view race along with nationalism as being a construct created by the bourgeois to keep the proletariat of different nations and ethnicities dividend and fighting one another instead of the international bourgeois. This is why people who are preoccupied with the fight against racism often get angry at Marxists, since they believe that Marxism downplays the issue of race and the importance of discrimination.

I any case, the fact that you have such a warped view of what 'left' and 'Marxism' actually are, and the fact that this warped view corresponds exactly to the views mistakenly held by the right, tells me you have never been a leftist at all. If you had been, you would have known what Marxism was.
Please Formosa, don't fall for the old Nazi lies re-packaged and parroted by the (alt-)right, you are better than that. You are almost literally spouting Nazi propaganda.



Wow A two for one

You guys are great, so again I’m a nazi because I disagree with your world view, this is awesome, I have never been proven correct so quickly.

No, you didn't read! There was nothing in that post about conflicting worldviews, and I did not call you a Nazi, I just said you are repeating actual Nazi ideology. I don't know you well enough to be able to say whether you believe in Nazi ideology so much you'd qualify as a Nazi, therefore I will not call you one. Most people who repeat Nazi ideology are not in fact aware that what they are saying were originally Nazi viewpoints, since extreme-right groups often disguise and repackage these ideas without mentioning their origin.
I just want to make you aware of the fact that some things you appear to believe in are in fact lies invented by the vilest kind of people that ever walked the earth, in the hope you will look into it and recognise the lies for what they are.

Error 404: Interesting signature not found

 
   
Made in se
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Formosa wrote:
Comparing my ideals with that of a nazi, alt right, etc.

That is the same as calling me nazi, the insinuation is very clear, and ironically precisely the kind of behaviour I was describing.

I have tried to be clear, I have tried to listen and have now been insulted multiple times, as far as I’m concerned you have all completely undermined your positions and proved quite clearly what I have been saying.



You share ideological positions with the far right in your hatred of feminism, anti-racism and social justice writ large and your placement of blame for these things on "Marxism" peddled by a shadowy cabal through elite universities. If you think that pointing out that what you say and how you argue is like the far right is an insult to you then what you should do is simply stop arguing far right points in a way very particular to the far right.
   
Made in nl
Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc





1. Parrot right wing talking points and throw in meaningless bait like social justice and marxism.
2. Get pointed out that doesn't make sense.
3. Pretend you're being called a Nazi.
4. ????
5. Declare yourself the thread winner.

Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
1750 pts Blood Specters
2000 pts Imperial Fists
6000 pts Disciples of Fate
3500 pts Peridia Prime
2500 pts Prophets of Fate
Lizardmen 3000 points Tlaxcoatl Temple-City
Tomb Kings 1500 points Sekhra (RIP) 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

Rosebuddy wrote:
 Formosa wrote:

You guys are great, so again I’m a nazi because I disagree with your world view, this is awesome, I have never been proven correct so quickly.


This is yet more of the evasive, dishonest tactics that the article I linked to details. None of us here have claimed that you are a nazi because you "disagree with our world view", we think that the way you use terms and the arguments you raise are incongruent with leftist ideologies which lead us to believe that you have never been a leftist.


Yet more insults, claiming dishonesty and going back to a clearly biased article, you made the comparison, you made the insult, if it was not intended then perhaps you should be more careful with your terminology rather than comparing mine to neo nazi propaganda.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





If you don't want your argument as being labeled as dishonest then maybe you shouldn't use dishonest arguments.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Can we not mention Jordan Peterson? Bringing up talking heads doesn't aid a discussion.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/29 14:51:27


The only way we can ever solve anything is to look in the mirror and find no enemy 
   
Made in se
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Formosa wrote:
Rosebuddy wrote:
 Formosa wrote:

You guys are great, so again I’m a nazi because I disagree with your world view, this is awesome, I have never been proven correct so quickly.


This is yet more of the evasive, dishonest tactics that the article I linked to details. None of us here have claimed that you are a nazi because you "disagree with our world view", we think that the way you use terms and the arguments you raise are incongruent with leftist ideologies which lead us to believe that you have never been a leftist.


Yet more insults, claiming dishonesty and going back to a clearly biased article, you made the comparison, you made the insult, if it was not intended then perhaps you should be more careful with your terminology rather than comparing mine to neo nazi propaganda.



You wrote this, of your own volition:

 Formosa wrote:
From the research I’ve done (for myself) and looking at both sides it “seems” (as in I am not certain for those of you who don’t understand the word) like this is all the result of a wave of Marxism disguised as the left, modern feminism, social justice, intersectionality etc. Are all symptoms of the regressive (not progressive, there is nothing progressive about these people) left trying to divide people to gain power, socially and politically.
.


Which is word for word the way that the neo-nazi movement understands leftism, and not in any way, shape or form the way that someone who holds communist, socialist or anarchist convictions would describe it.


Additionally, you see fit to dismiss an article on how neo-nazis infiltrate nerd spaces as "biased". Why is that?
   
Made in gb
Drop Trooper with Demo Charge





Rosebuddy wrote:
we think that the way you use terms and the arguments you raise are incongruent with leftist ideologies which lead us to believe that you have never been a leftist.


I see this thread has moved from discussion to purity testing... I think I'll stop reading here.
   
Made in es
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain




Vigo. Spain.

It is what happens when Rosebuddy enters the fray.
But to be honest, Formosa, you haven't show your best picture here. "All what you are saying is BS. Change my mind!" is not the best way to enter a thread.

 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in nl
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






 Sasquatch wrote:
Rosebuddy wrote:
we think that the way you use terms and the arguments you raise are incongruent with leftist ideologies which lead us to believe that you have never been a leftist.


I see this thread has moved from discussion to purity testing... I think I'll stop reading here.

I think you misunderstand what he wrote because it is pulled out of context. There is no purity testing or whatever. Formosa claimed to have been a leftist but then in his further argument went on to display a very bad understanding of leftist ideas, causing people to doubt his claim that he had once held leftist ideas.
Basically, it is like saying you speak fluent German, but then proceed to absolutely mangle a German phrase, leading people to doubt whether you actually speak German at all. I don't see how that is 'purity testing'.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/29 15:21:08


Error 404: Interesting signature not found

 
   
Made in se
Longtime Dakkanaut




If I pretended to be from San Fransisco it wouldn't be purity testing when people start pointing out that I don't know anything about the city's geography, climate, demographics or politics.
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

 Iron_Captain wrote:
 Sasquatch wrote:
Rosebuddy wrote:
we think that the way you use terms and the arguments you raise are incongruent with leftist ideologies which lead us to believe that you have never been a leftist.


I see this thread has moved from discussion to purity testing... I think I'll stop reading here.

I think you misunderstand what he wrote because it is pulled out of context. There is no purity testing or whatever. Formosa claimed to have been a leftist but then in his further argument went on to display a very bad understanding of leftist ideas, causing people to doubt his claim that he had once held leftist ideas.
Basically, it is like saying you speak fluent German, but then proceed to absolutely mangle a German phrase, leading people to doubt whether you actually speak German at all. I don't see how that is 'purity testing'.



You mean, Formosa went on to explain what is wrong with modern far leftist ideology and blamed it on Marxism.

Formosa still holds leftist ideas, “purity” testing is spot on what you are trying and failing to do, you believe leftism is x, and only x, when in fact it covers a wide range of things.

Also you then tried to compare Formosa’s ideology to naziism, in a condescending manner.

Ironically your every post is proving my point.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Galas wrote:
It is what happens when Rosebuddy enters the fray.
But to be honest, Formosa, you haven't show your best picture here. "All what you are saying is BS. Change my mind!" is not the best way to enter a thread.


I should have phrased it better then galas.

How does this sound.


“I think you are fundamentally wrong, I think your views are dangerous and cause the very issues you claim to want to resolve”

“If you wish to prove me wrong you must use clear evidence in an unbiased a manner as possible, use facts and data to support your argument, first however you must prove your original premise”

In this case “white privilege”

So far all we have had is one study (thanks pol) that does not show white privilege, opinions, feelings and anecdotes, I’m yet to be convinced that it’s real.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/29 16:37:29


 
   
Made in nl
Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc





Using terms like 'Purity testing' and 'Marxism' to try and handwave away that you employ right wing talking points does not help the fact that you try to convince others you're a leftist.

And as pointed out believing in Cultural Marxism as in your description, which is nothing more than a ridiculous conspiracy pushed by the far right, doesn't really help when Cultural Marxism in that context is just playing right wing identity politics. But keep claiming people call you Nazi like it means something, instead of learning what academic Cultural Marxism in the sense of the Frankfurt School meaning is and seeing it has zero to do with how you're using it and zero meaning in the context we're discussing.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/07/29 16:45:10


Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
1750 pts Blood Specters
2000 pts Imperial Fists
6000 pts Disciples of Fate
3500 pts Peridia Prime
2500 pts Prophets of Fate
Lizardmen 3000 points Tlaxcoatl Temple-City
Tomb Kings 1500 points Sekhra (RIP) 
   
Made in gb
Veteran Inquisitorial Tyranid Xenokiller





Colne, England

All I've gathered that the fringe left has more weight than the fringe right on the political scale, which ironically is a right wing faux worry point "the fringe left are asking you to have some empathy, hide yo kids from universities".

Brb learning to play.

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Mozzyfuzzy wrote:
All I've gathered that the fringe left has more weight than the fringe right on the political scale.


Not sure if you're being serious or sarcastic here.
   
Made in nl
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






 Formosa wrote:
 Iron_Captain wrote:
 Sasquatch wrote:
Rosebuddy wrote:
we think that the way you use terms and the arguments you raise are incongruent with leftist ideologies which lead us to believe that you have never been a leftist.


I see this thread has moved from discussion to purity testing... I think I'll stop reading here.

I think you misunderstand what he wrote because it is pulled out of context. There is no purity testing or whatever. Formosa claimed to have been a leftist but then in his further argument went on to display a very bad understanding of leftist ideas, causing people to doubt his claim that he had once held leftist ideas.
Basically, it is like saying you speak fluent German, but then proceed to absolutely mangle a German phrase, leading people to doubt whether you actually speak German at all. I don't see how that is 'purity testing'.



You mean, Formosa went on to explain what is wrong with modern far leftist ideology and blamed it on Marxism.
Unjustly so, and when this was pointed out Formosa incorrectly accused people, including Iron_Captain, of calling him a Nazi.

 Formosa wrote:
Formosa still holds leftist ideas, “purity” testing is spot on what you are trying and failing to do, you believe leftism is x, and only x, when in fact it covers a wide range of things.
It is evident that Formosa holds neither social liberal nor Marxist ideas, and seeing as it is these (very different) philosophies and the many diverse movements born from them that are normally referred to as 'the left', it makes Iron_Captain question what kind of leftist ideas Formosa then does hold.


 Formosa wrote:
Also you then tried to compare Formosa’s ideology to naziism, in a condescending manner.
Iron_Captain never compared Formosa's ideology to nazism, Iron_Captain pointed out that Formosa's comment about Marxism was inspired by Nazi propaganda. Iron_Captain does not think Formosa is a Nazi, nor does Iron_Captain believe Formosa holds Nazi sympathies. Iron_Captain believes Formosa was simply unaware of the dark origin of his comment and wanted to inform him of such.

Iron_Captain questions why Iron_Captain and Formosa have started referring to themselves in the third person.

Error 404: Interesting signature not found

 
   
Made in gb
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain





Earth

 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Using terms like 'Purity testing' and 'Marxism' to try and handwave away that you employ right wing talking points does not help the fact that you try to convince others you're a leftist.

And as pointed out believing in Cultural Marxism as in your description, which is nothing more than a ridiculous conspiracy pushed by the far right, doesn't really help when Cultural Marxism in that context is just playing right wing identity politics. But keep claiming people call you Nazi like it means something, instead of learning what academic Cultural Marxism in the sense of the Frankfurt School meaning is and seeing it has zero to do with how you're using it and zero meaning in the context we're discussing.



See you can’t help yourself can you

I didn’t bring up the purity test, I just agreed with it, yet another failure of comprehension for you.

And right wing identity politics oh that’s a good one....

This is making me wonder though, are you ignorant of what has been happening in he states and U.K. for the last 8/9 years or because you choose no to see the failings in your own movement?
   
Made in gb
Veteran Inquisitorial Tyranid Xenokiller





Colne, England

 skyth wrote:
 Mozzyfuzzy wrote:
All I've gathered that the fringe left has more weight than the fringe right on the political scale.


Not sure if you're being serious or sarcastic here.


From what Formosa has said, serious, when you believe what the fringe left makes you more central, while the fringe right does it's thing, then either the fringe left has more weight or I'll probably be accused of being condescending.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Formosa wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Using terms like 'Purity testing' and 'Marxism' to try and handwave away that you employ right wing talking points does not help the fact that you try to convince others you're a leftist.

And as pointed out believing in Cultural Marxism as in your description, which is nothing more than a ridiculous conspiracy pushed by the far right, doesn't really help when Cultural Marxism in that context is just playing right wing identity politics. But keep claiming people call you Nazi like it means something, instead of learning what academic Cultural Marxism in the sense of the Frankfurt School meaning is and seeing it has zero to do with how you're using it and zero meaning in the context we're discussing.



See you can’t help yourself can you

I didn’t bring up the purity test, I just agreed with it, yet another failure of comprehension for you.

And right wing identity politics oh that’s a good one....

This is making me wonder though, are you ignorant of what has been happening in he states and U.K. for the last 8/9 years or because you choose no to see the failings in your own movement?


Did you actually read what was written or are you determined to interpret everything as calling you some degree of right wing?

Just people once again explaining where your talking points are from. Interestingly enough used to make people worry more about the fringe left than is actually worthwhile.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/07/29 17:09:30


Brb learning to play.

 
   
Made in nl
Tzeentch Aspiring Sorcerer Riding a Disc





 Formosa wrote:
 Disciple of Fate wrote:
Using terms like 'Purity testing' and 'Marxism' to try and handwave away that you employ right wing talking points does not help the fact that you try to convince others you're a leftist.

And as pointed out believing in Cultural Marxism as in your description, which is nothing more than a ridiculous conspiracy pushed by the far right, doesn't really help when Cultural Marxism in that context is just playing right wing identity politics. But keep claiming people call you Nazi like it means something, instead of learning what academic Cultural Marxism in the sense of the Frankfurt School meaning is and seeing it has zero to do with how you're using it and zero meaning in the context we're discussing.



See you can’t help yourself can you

I didn’t bring up the purity test, I just agreed with it, yet another failure of comprehension for you.

And right wing identity politics oh that’s a good one....

This is making me wonder though, are you ignorant of what has been happening in he states and U.K. for the last 8/9 years or because you choose no to see the failings in your own movement?

No, you didn't bring up purity testing, but you said it was spot on. Saying purity testing is what it is is nothing more than handwaving critique away, you agreed to the use of the term to handwave. I don't know why that is so hard to understand when you keep trying to insist others don't comprehend the topic.

Seriously, you don't believe in right wing identity politics but you believe in Cultural Marxism? The pinnacle of (far)right identity politics? Granted most have dropped the pretense and now just refer to it as 'white genocide' instead of the euphemistic Cultural Marxism.

And its been happening far longer in more than just the UK and the US than the last decade. I remember the 90's when 'Cultural Marxism is destroying American/Western culture' was nothing more than a badly veiled attempt to say 'giving gay people rights will destroy the fabric of Western society!'

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2018/07/29 17:18:44


Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
1750 pts Blood Specters
2000 pts Imperial Fists
6000 pts Disciples of Fate
3500 pts Peridia Prime
2500 pts Prophets of Fate
Lizardmen 3000 points Tlaxcoatl Temple-City
Tomb Kings 1500 points Sekhra (RIP) 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Mozzyfuzzy wrote:
 skyth wrote:
 Mozzyfuzzy wrote:
All I've gathered that the fringe left has more weight than the fringe right on the political scale.


Not sure if you're being serious or sarcastic here.


From what Formosa has said, serious, when you believe what the fringe left makes you more central, while the fringe right does it's thing, then either the fringe left has more weight or I'll probably be accused of being condescending.


Oh...I thought you were talking for yourself not trying to put what Formosa was saying in other words. That's why I was confused as the fringe right currently holds the White house and Congress. Saying that the fringe left holds any sort of political power is quite ridiculous.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Dankhold Troggoth






Shadeglass Maze

Politics discussion on Dakka belongs only in the US Politics thread. Since we've started discussing politics, I'll lock this one and any political conversations can continue over there...

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/07/29 17:43:30


 
   
 
Forum Index » Off-Topic Forum
Go to: