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 ArbitorIan wrote:

The recasters have identified a third market: gamers who are happy to spend 40k prices, and want to play Heresy, but either can't afford multiple £100 tanks or simply don't think a tank model is worth £100 for what it is. The sensible thing to do in that situation is to realise that market exists and find a way to cater to it (more plastic kits, cheaper resin kits and higher production, etc). If a Spartan cost £60 then far fewer people would buy a recast one, right?

Instead, they've removed all the plastic starter sets, increased the price of resin, and made it harder for their biggest source of new players (existing 40k players) to get into the game by separating the rules. It seems like the actual intention at the moment is to scale down the game and the size of the community. Again, that's fine (they're a busy company with a lot going on) but it does mean less releases and less support, and more things being discontinued.

I think this gets to the root of it. If your goal was to grow this product line and the customer base that supports it, you would add plastics and drop prices. So to me there are several possible explanations for their refusal to do so:

1. Internal company policy that they can't possibly drop prices.
2. They're close to capacity and don't have room to increase production without additional costs and in their calculus the additional costs are not commensurate with the expected increase in profit.
3. They see 30k player base as a zero sum game with 40k players. If the player is already spending money on 40k, why spend resources to develop another product line?
3. They're dumb.

It's possible that it's a combination of these and other reasons. As a fan that wants more Heresy stuff, I am frustrated no matter the reasons for it.

 totalfailure wrote:
Oh, the tangled rationalizations we weave, when pirates we seek to be....

THANK YOU for proving my point. This attitude is EXACTLY what drives people into the arms of recasters.

 badguyshaveallthefun wrote:

 totalfailure wrote:
Oh, the tangled rationalizations we weave, when pirates we seek to be....

THANK YOU for proving my point. This attitude is EXACTLY what drives people into the arms of recasters.

I don't think dogmatic insistence on purity drives people into the arms of recasters, but it certainly stops any reasonable discussion. I do think that a very significant proportion of Heresy players buy recast models because they can't stomach to pay FW prices. So pretending that this is not happening is not helpful to anyone. If I was GW I would want to understand how to get part of that business back.

I've always been baffled by the argument that a recast sale made is a FW sale lost. It's like saying every song listened to on youtube is an album unsold, or every photo of an artwork is one less trip to the art gallery it's at. People have a budget and they ultimately spend it where they feel is best value for what they want. If they weren't spending a hundred quid on recast product, it's entirely possible it would go on warmachine or something else.

 Ketara wrote:
I've always been baffled by the argument that a recast sale made is a FW sale lost. It's like saying every song listened to on youtube is an album unsold, or every photo of an artwork is one less trip to the art gallery it's at. People have a budget and they ultimately spend it where they feel is best value for what they want. If they weren't spending a hundred quid on recast product, it's entirely possible it would go on warmachine or something else.

Regarding the musical analogy, you’re totally right. It’s long been a thing that, for people illegally downloading music (when that was a thing), the choice is not between illegal download or spending the money - it’s between illegal downloads and just being fine not having the music. Generally, people who like your band buy the album. Everyone else is just publicity.

 gorgon wrote:
I think 'die' is the wrong kind of language, though. As long as people are still playing it, the game is still 'alive'. As long as models and books are still available, the game is still 'supported'. And I don't see any reason why it can't be alive and supported for a long time according to those definitions. Some 30K kits would probably stay available even in the event of 30K's 'death', since those kits can be used in 40K now.

Will it be a shrinking HH community? Of course. It looks to me like focusing on a smaller pool of their best customers is the entire business plan, to be honest. But you know, maybe that's the best way to keep the thing sustainable for those customers. *shrug*

The basic rulebook that 30k is played under is not even available through GW or FLGS any more because of the switch to 8th.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ketara wrote:
I've always been baffled by the argument that a recast sale made is a FW sale lost. It's like saying every song listened to on youtube is an album unsold, or every photo of an artwork is one less trip to the art gallery it's at. People have a budget and they ultimately spend it where they feel is best value for what they want. If they weren't spending a hundred quid on recast product, it's entirely possible it would go on warmachine or something else.

An even better analogy is saying every fake Rolex sold is a sale Rolex lost. That's not at all the case because literally nobody buying fake Rolexes would ever spend $10k+ on a watch, or they wouldn't even be pricing a fake Rolex to begin with. Some pirated songs are lost album sales because an album is cheap.

 Toofast wrote:

An even better analogy is saying every fake Rolex sold is a sale Rolex lost. That's not at all the case because literally nobody buying fake Rolexes would ever spend $10k+ on a watch, or they wouldn't even be pricing a fake Rolex to begin with. Some pirated songs are lost album sales because an album is cheap.

Except this 'literally' isn't true as at least one poster on this thread has said they can afford to buy FW prices, they don't because they don't feel they are justified.
I hope the future of HH isn't linked to recasters, and i hope that's echoed by all on here.
I think we should leave the re-casting discussion (at least within here) at that, as its an emotive subject and probably speaks to the individuals feelings on the nature of society, moral relativism and other matters, that wont be easily swayed, and gets even greyer and murkier when you consider things having gone from the range but still being in the army lists.

Personally, i just hope that we see some more from FW for the Heresy.
Do people feel that setting Titanicus in the Heresy is an indication of GW/FW desire to continue?
Or jsut a cynical ploy to sell nostalgia to the 'Old Guard'? (and yes, I fall into that bracket and have purchased it...!)

So, I'm gonna throw in my 2 cents. I've never played a game of anything 30k, 40k, Fantasy, or AoS. I enjoy building and painting the armies and I love the HH lore. So that's where I'm coming from. I hear all this business about HH being dead or dying out, I don't see it that way. And I don't see any reason why they would let it. When Warhammer Fantasy was killed off it was due to years of rule problems and finally a decline in sales. Or so I read on forums. When your bedrock product is pulling you down, you gotta do something drastic.

HH was kind of a niche game until Calth came out then it blew up. It makes sense the game would slow down since there has been no movement in 2 years. Which is understandable given the passing of Mr. Bligh. 40k and AoS would do the same thing under those circumstances. Ill bet GW/FW still makes money with the Heresy and they aren't going to stop while there is so much of the story left to tell.

My bet is Book 8 will come out and a lot of people will regain interest. Hopefully 9 will be out in, relatively, short order. I also expect another box set with new plastics at some point. Simply because GW will make a ton on it, like the others.

I do think the Heresy would benefit from some a reduction in the planned number of book, I read somewhere they wanted 20. I think they should do DA and maybe a 10th book as a "state of the galaxy/heresy" book to set up the Siege of Terra. They could write minor retcons and use that as a way to transition to 8th. Which I gather is a better rule set, but I don't really know.

Anyway, just some thoughts. And I do think the Titanicus is a way to expand the Heresy universe. I mean, its not like we don't know how it will end.

 40kFSU wrote:
So, I'm gonna throw in my 2 cents. I've never played a game of anything 30k, 40k, Fantasy, or AoS. I enjoy building and painting the armies and I love the HH lore. So that's where I'm coming from. I hear all this business about HH being dead or dying out, I don't see it that way. And I don't see any reason why they would let it. When Warhammer Fantasy was killed off it was due to years of rule problems and finally a decline in sales. Or so I read on forums. When your bedrock product is pulling you down, you gotta do something drastic.

HH was kind of a niche game until Calth came out then it blew up. It makes sense the game would slow down since there has been no movement in 2 years. Which is understandable given the passing of Mr. Bligh. 40k and AoS would do the same thing under those circumstances. Ill bet GW/FW still makes money with the Heresy and they aren't going to stop while there is so much of the story left to tell.

My bet is Book 8 will come out and a lot of people will regain interest. Hopefully 9 will be out in, relatively, short order. I also expect another box set with new plastics at some point. Simply because GW will make a ton on it, like the others.

I do think the Heresy would benefit from some a reduction in the planned number of book, I read somewhere they wanted 20. I think they should do DA and maybe a 10th book as a "state of the galaxy/heresy" book to set up the Siege of Terra. They could write minor retcons and use that as a way to transition to 8th. Which I gather is a better rule set, but I don't really know.

Anyway, just some thoughts. And I do think the Titanicus is a way to expand the Heresy universe. I mean, its not like we don't know how it will end.

It's hard to say for sure what will happen, but as I stated earlier in the thread, the three groups in my area all dried up not because of a lack of content, but because of the idiotic decision to remain a game based in 7th edition. That's well over 40 people who sold their models and went back to 40K.

Wow, so 7th is so cumbersome y’all sold the armies? Would you return if the rules improved?

TIf they had decided to switch to 8th immediately, I think four legions would have just gotten full rules and the rest of us would be using holdover lists thrown together late last year. I’d expect my Scars to get their full rules five years from now rather than in a few months. The 40k FAQs would have broken a few types of lists and we still wouldn’t have heard anything from Forge World addressing those issues. Heresy would be dying.

 40kFSU wrote:
I do think the Heresy would benefit from some a reduction in the planned number of book, I read somewhere they wanted 20. I think they should do DA and maybe a 10th book as a "state of the galaxy/heresy" book to set up the Siege of Terra. They could write minor retcons and use that as a way to transition to 8th. Which I gather is a better rule set, but I don't really know.

This sounds like a request to hurry up and kill the Heresy ahead of schedule.

At the last weekender, FW’s 30k team said they intend to release definitive army list books after finishing the Dark Angels and Dark Mechanicum, and that’s when they would consider changing the core rules. They’ll only be through the early Heresy, lore-wise, just having introduced each faction in books 1-9. The mid-Heresy (or late-Heresy if they skip that) might therefore be a fundamentally differently game. I think that’d work.

No, definitely don’t want to end the Heresy early. I see how it came off that way. Just thinking about how to update everything at once. I didn’t know about those army books after book 9. That would probably do the trick. I guess that’s what I get for not reading all the posts.

Deathwatch101 wrote:

 Toofast wrote:

An even better analogy is saying every fake Rolex sold is a sale Rolex lost. That's not at all the case because literally nobody buying fake Rolexes would ever spend $10k+ on a watch, or they wouldn't even be pricing a fake Rolex to begin with. Some pirated songs are lost album sales because an album is cheap.

Except this 'literally' isn't true as at least one poster on this thread has said they can afford to buy FW prices, they don't because they don't feel they are justified.
I hope the future of HH isn't linked to recasters, and i hope that's echoed by all on here.
I think we should leave the re-casting discussion (at least within here) at that, as its an emotive subject and probably speaks to the individuals feelings on the nature of society, moral relativism and other matters, that wont be easily swayed, and gets even greyer and murkier when you consider things having gone from the range but still being in the army lists.

Personally, i just hope that we see some more from FW for the Heresy.
Do people feel that setting Titanicus in the Heresy is an indication of GW/FW desire to continue?
Or jsut a cynical ploy to sell nostalgia to the 'Old Guard'? (and yes, I fall into that bracket and have purchased it...!)

I believe I was the one that said that. Just because I can afford FW prices doesn't mean I would pay their prices if recasts didn't exist. I thought their prices were hard to justify before, but I still bought from FW. After the overnight price hike by 30% because reasons, that's where they crossed the line into "nope, not worth it" territory.

40kFSU, it’s a painfully repetitive thread to read in its entirety, and I’m not helping with that. But yeah, I think we’re on the same page and for once FW seems to have some sort of long-term plan.

During the same weekender talk they also said they wouldn’t be surprised if GW told FW where to take 30k in terms of rules. There’s more coordination between the two than before (though not enough for anyone at FW to have foreknowledge about how big a change 8th would be).

Deathwatch101 wrote:

 Toofast wrote:

An even better analogy is saying every fake Rolex sold is a sale Rolex lost. That's not at all the case because literally nobody buying fake Rolexes would ever spend $10k+ on a watch, or they wouldn't even be pricing a fake Rolex to begin with. Some pirated songs are lost album sales because an album is cheap.

Except this 'literally' isn't true as at least one poster on this thread has said they can afford to buy FW prices, they don't because they don't feel they are justified.

I’m one. I was (grudgingly) fine with their UK prices. Felt taken advantage of for not getting VAT deducted, but I was still buying their stuff. Then they killed torsos and Mk II, which I’d bought and could use more of, apparently so that they could jack up our prices despite not having significant foreign costs (unlike GW). I still like the game or I wouldn’t be here whining about it, but I’m not planning on buying anything from FW for a while and will probably fade out of 30k. I could now see myself wrapping up the army with recasts just to complete the project. Or 3rd party minis. Fewer moral issues there.

When is the next Forge World event that may tell us more?
And when is book 8 planned to be out now?

I never got into the game, but picked up a few models, would like to see it continue.
But the thing they MUST do is get all factions (legions) out before finishing.
(I don’t think they’re in a bad place and thinking of stopping, just delayed by the unforeseen circumstances).

The worst thing that GW did was end fantasy just before getting the last 2-3 8th Edition books out which would have wrapped it nicely..

 40kFSU wrote:

My bet is Book 8 will come out and a lot of people will regain interest. Hopefully 9 will be out in, relatively, short order. I also expect another box set with new plastics at some point. Simply because GW will make a ton on it, like the others.

Well i dont want to sound harsh but i think you will lose this bet. Book 8 if they release it now (or soon) while still in 7th edition will see as much as half the sold copies of the worst selling previous books. Why? Well because if you look at this thread many players will say they either lost interest themselves or everyone around them lost interest because HH stayed in 7th. That means less players interested and less sold copies.

Hardcore HH fans will buy it anyway but if they want more sold copies they have to switch to 8th or make renew the edition. Going 8th is probably best answer if they want sales.

I thought Heresy was SUPPOSED to be its own game.

Sure, it shared the rules of 7th edition with 40k for a while, but I was under the assumption (maybe falsely) that Heresy was always meant to be its own game system. Essentially a specialist game or akin to LoTR.

It's a stupid amount of entitlement to demand/threaten that Heresy rules get updated to 8th edition. That's like saying you'll sell your Flames of War army unless they change the rules to be more like Star Wars Armada (just because you don't want to learn a new ruleset or you like that second ruleset better)

They're.two.completely.different.games. I get that 7th edition isn't for everyone, but why do the folks who love 8th edition get to set the terms for everyone else? Why can't Heresy stay 7th and 40k stay 8th?

 badguyshaveallthefun wrote:
I thought Heresy was SUPPOSED to be its own game.

Sure, it shared the rules of 7th edition with 40k for a while, but I was under the assumption (maybe falsely) that Heresy was always meant to be its own game system. Essentially a specialist game or akin to LoTR.

It's a stupid amount of entitlement to demand/threaten that Heresy rules get updated to 8th edition. That's like saying you'll sell your Flames of War army unless they change the rules to be more like Star Wars Armada (just because you don't want to learn a new ruleset or you like that second ruleset better)

They're.two.completely.different.games. I get that 7th edition isn't for everyone, but why do the folks who love 8th edition get to set the terms for everyone else? Why can't Heresy stay 7th and 40k stay 8th?

You can read through the thread to see that it's not entitlement that's causing folks to want a switch to 8th, but a belief that this would lead to player base growth and hence a healthier game. Whether you agree with that or not is up to you. And it didn't start as a separate game, it was more of a mod to the existing game. Now they are separate games and it's hard to bring people into it so that we can continue to play.

 badguyshaveallthefun wrote:


They're.two.completely.different.games.

No, they were two different settings in the same system. Now they are two different settings in different systems and some people obviously don't agree with that decision.

 badguyshaveallthefun wrote:
I thought Heresy was SUPPOSED to be its own game.

Sure, it shared the rules of 7th edition with 40k for a while, but I was under the assumption (maybe falsely) that Heresy was always meant to be its own game system. Essentially a specialist game or akin to LoTR.

It's a stupid amount of entitlement to demand/threaten that Heresy rules get updated to 8th edition. That's like saying you'll sell your Flames of War army unless they change the rules to be more like Star Wars Armada (just because you don't want to learn a new ruleset or you like that second ruleset better)

They're.two.completely.different.games. I get that 7th edition isn't for everyone, but why do the folks who love 8th edition get to set the terms for everyone else? Why can't Heresy stay 7th and 40k stay 8th?

You are aware that a 8th edition style HH rulebook was under development at forgeworld, right? They don't need to have identical rules, but continuing to use a base ruleset copied form one of the worse editions of 40k to ever come out has hurt and will continue to hurt the game.

For background - it did start out as a supplement that used the 40k rules, and at his last FW event appearance Alan Bligh said he intended to keep it that way. He said that when everyone knew 8th edition was on the way, but before anyone outside of GW’s main studio knew what it would look like.

The first book was written for 5th edition, but was released after 6th had come out. That meant a few minor little things didn’t work. Then 7th came out, and FW eventually released a FAQ to fix some issues. You still see a few holdovers from 6th in 30k’s unit entries, like a tank or two that have the “Heavy” trait.

Then we got the Great Multibombing Debate when a 7th ed. 40k FAQ stated that a squad could only use one grenade a turn (or something like that). It didn’t have a significant effect on 40k, but a lot of 30k assault-oriented lists were dependent on units being able to use several meltabombs a turn. It would’ve gutted them. FW was extremely slow to react, so a large number of players and a majority of 30k events decided to flat out ignore the change. At that point, I’d say the community decided that 30k needed its own rules. They could be based on 40k, but given that FW seemed incapable of reacting to 40k rules changes in a timely fashion - let alone prepare for them in advance - they needed to split. That’s the best part of 30k getting its own rulebook.

If we go to 8th edition, fine. I’m not a fan, but it wouldn’t be the end of the world. We just need 30k’s 8th ed. rules to remain independent of 40k’s: separate FAQs, separate erratas, even the ability to change the stats of units or wargear that exist in both settings.

Carlisimo wrote:
For background - it did start out as a supplement that used the 40k rules, and at his last FW event appearance Alan Bligh said he intended to keep it that way. He said that when everyone knew 8th edition was on the way, but before anyone outside of GW’s main studio knew what it would look like.

The first book was written for 5th edition, but was released after 6th had come out. That meant a few minor little things didn’t work. Then 7th came out, and FW eventually released a FAQ to fix some issues. You still see a few holdovers from 6th in 30k’s unit entries, like a tank or two that have the “Heavy” trait.

Then we got the Great Multibombing Debate when a 7th ed. 40k FAQ stated that a squad could only use one grenade a turn (or something like that). It didn’t have a significant effect on 40k, but a lot of 30k assault-oriented lists were dependent on units being able to use several meltabombs a turn. It would’ve gutted them. FW was extremely slow to react, so a large number of players and a majority of 30k events decided to flat out ignore the change. At that point, I’d say the community decided that 30k needed its own rules. They could be based on 40k, but given that FW seemed incapable of reacting to 40k rules changes in a timely fashion - let alone prepare for them in advance - they needed to split. That’s the best part of 30k getting its own rulebook.

If we go to 8th edition, fine. I’m not a fan, but it wouldn’t be the end of the world. We just need 30k’s 8th ed. rules to remain independent of 40k’s: separate FAQs, separate erratas, even the ability to change the stats of units or wargear that exist in both settings.

It seems like Book 7 started incorporating ideas for 8th edition and then Alan died and they released an incomplete disaster. Things like Russ having a rule for -1 to hit in combat. In 7th edition that's a weird concept that is hard to implement. In 8th edition that concept makes perfect sense.

There’s a competing rumor that says they had no access to 8th until it was out in the public, and a separate one that says they started working on one but found that they couldn’t get the granularity they wanted to keep each legion feeling distinctive (that one isn’t mutually exclusive with the others).

Good point though, that was an unusual rule that works better in 8th.

 badguyshaveallthefun wrote:
I thought Heresy was SUPPOSED to be its own game.

Sure, it shared the rules of 7th edition with 40k for a while, but I was under the assumption (maybe falsely) that Heresy was always meant to be its own game system. Essentially a specialist game or akin to LoTR.

It's a stupid amount of entitlement to demand/threaten that Heresy rules get updated to 8th edition. That's like saying you'll sell your Flames of War army unless they change the rules to be more like Star Wars Armada (just because you don't want to learn a new ruleset or you like that second ruleset better)

They're.two.completely.different.games. I get that 7th edition isn't for everyone, but why do the folks who love 8th edition get to set the terms for everyone else? Why can't Heresy stay 7th and 40k stay 8th?

I’m echoing a few people here, but Alan always said that Heresy was an expansion to 40k. When that game went from 5th to 6th, Heresy went with it. When it went from 6th to 7th, Heresy went with it. And as we know, there was a plan for that to happen with 7th to 8th, and various rumours about why they ended up not doing it. I think the only one we know for sure is true is that, at the point of Alan’s death and now, FW was extremely busy, possibly understaffed, and with a lot of new games on their plate. That’s, realistically the main reason it didn’t change.

A lot of people are annoyed by the decision to switch because:
- they outright prefer 8th to 7th
- they bought into the system because of its ease of switching between Heresy games and 40k games and now that’s gone
- they have small Heresy communities and used to play vs 40k armies and now can’t
- since the decision to remain in 7ed, Heresy has dried up in their area
- they fear that over time Heresy will slowly die as it’s recruiting pool gets smaller and smaller
- they want cool models and fear that release schedules are going to slow down for the same reason as above

 ArbitorIan wrote:

 badguyshaveallthefun wrote:
I thought Heresy was SUPPOSED to be its own game.

Sure, it shared the rules of 7th edition with 40k for a while, but I was under the assumption (maybe falsely) that Heresy was always meant to be its own game system. Essentially a specialist game or akin to LoTR.

It's a stupid amount of entitlement to demand/threaten that Heresy rules get updated to 8th edition. That's like saying you'll sell your Flames of War army unless they change the rules to be more like Star Wars Armada (just because you don't want to learn a new ruleset or you like that second ruleset better)

They're.two.completely.different.games. I get that 7th edition isn't for everyone, but why do the folks who love 8th edition get to set the terms for everyone else? Why can't Heresy stay 7th and 40k stay 8th?

I, echoing a few people here, but Alan always said that Heresy was an expansion to 40k.when that game went from 5th to 6th, Heresy went with it. When it went from 6th to 7th, Heresy went with it. And as we know, there was a plan for that to happen with 7th to 8th, and various rumours about why they ended up not doing it. I think the only one we know for sure is true is that, at the point of Alan’s death and now, FW was extremely busy, possibly understaffed, and with a lot of new games on their plate. That’s, realistically the main reason it didn’t change.

A lot of people are annoyed by the decision to switch because:
- they prefer 8th to 7ed
- they bought into the system because of its ease of switching between that and 40k and now that’s gone
- they have small Heresy communities and used to play vs 40k armies and now can’t
- since the decision to remain in 7ed, Heresy has dried up in their area
- they fear that over time Heresy will slowly die as it’s recruiting pool gets smaller and smaller
- they want cool models and fear that release schedules are going to slow down for the same reason as above

I can appreciate a lot of those worries. I know I am lucky in that my local community is growing.

Really switching to 8th wouldn't be a big issue if 8th was ya know, not a bad system.

Again, that is my opinion and I am not knocking anyone who enjoys 8th.

That said, it has too many issues. Cover is pointless, the constant FAQ is a pain and it just does not feel like 40k.

LunaWolvesLoyalist wrote:

 ArbitorIan wrote:

 badguyshaveallthefun wrote:
I thought Heresy was SUPPOSED to be its own game.

Sure, it shared the rules of 7th edition with 40k for a while, but I was under the assumption (maybe falsely) that Heresy was always meant to be its own game system. Essentially a specialist game or akin to LoTR.

It's a stupid amount of entitlement to demand/threaten that Heresy rules get updated to 8th edition. That's like saying you'll sell your Flames of War army unless they change the rules to be more like Star Wars Armada (just because you don't want to learn a new ruleset or you like that second ruleset better)

They're.two.completely.different.games. I get that 7th edition isn't for everyone, but why do the folks who love 8th edition get to set the terms for everyone else? Why can't Heresy stay 7th and 40k stay 8th?

I, echoing a few people here, but Alan always said that Heresy was an expansion to 40k.when that game went from 5th to 6th, Heresy went with it. When it went from 6th to 7th, Heresy went with it. And as we know, there was a plan for that to happen with 7th to 8th, and various rumours about why they ended up not doing it. I think the only one we know for sure is true is that, at the point of Alan’s death and now, FW was extremely busy, possibly understaffed, and with a lot of new games on their plate. That’s, realistically the main reason it didn’t change.

A lot of people are annoyed by the decision to switch because:
- they prefer 8th to 7ed
- they bought into the system because of its ease of switching between that and 40k and now that’s gone
- they have small Heresy communities and used to play vs 40k armies and now can’t
- since the decision to remain in 7ed, Heresy has dried up in their area
- they fear that over time Heresy will slowly die as it’s recruiting pool gets smaller and smaller
- they want cool models and fear that release schedules are going to slow down for the same reason as above

I can appreciate a lot of those worries. I know I am lucky in that my local community is growing.

Really switching to 8th wouldn't be a big issue if 8th was ya know, not a bad system.

Again, that is my opinion and I am not knocking anyone who enjoys 8th.

That said, it has too many issues. Cover is pointless, the constant FAQ is a pain and it just does not feel like 40k.

I must disagree. It has far less issues than 7th (even HH.) As someone who was looking into getting into HH (We ended up using the 8th fanrules on here), I much prefer 8th's rules.

WIth Alternate Activation and fixing Cover, 8th becomes a really fun game. Especially in the HH.

Sir Heckington wrote:

LunaWolvesLoyalist wrote:

 ArbitorIan wrote:

 badguyshaveallthefun wrote:
I thought Heresy was SUPPOSED to be its own game.

Sure, it shared the rules of 7th edition with 40k for a while, but I was under the assumption (maybe falsely) that Heresy was always meant to be its own game system. Essentially a specialist game or akin to LoTR.

It's a stupid amount of entitlement to demand/threaten that Heresy rules get updated to 8th edition. That's like saying you'll sell your Flames of War army unless they change the rules to be more like Star Wars Armada (just because you don't want to learn a new ruleset or you like that second ruleset better)

They're.two.completely.different.games. I get that 7th edition isn't for everyone, but why do the folks who love 8th edition get to set the terms for everyone else? Why can't Heresy stay 7th and 40k stay 8th?

I, echoing a few people here, but Alan always said that Heresy was an expansion to 40k.when that game went from 5th to 6th, Heresy went with it. When it went from 6th to 7th, Heresy went with it. And as we know, there was a plan for that to happen with 7th to 8th, and various rumours about why they ended up not doing it. I think the only one we know for sure is true is that, at the point of Alan’s death and now, FW was extremely busy, possibly understaffed, and with a lot of new games on their plate. That’s, realistically the main reason it didn’t change.

A lot of people are annoyed by the decision to switch because:
- they prefer 8th to 7ed
- they bought into the system because of its ease of switching between that and 40k and now that’s gone
- they have small Heresy communities and used to play vs 40k armies and now can’t
- since the decision to remain in 7ed, Heresy has dried up in their area
- they fear that over time Heresy will slowly die as it’s recruiting pool gets smaller and smaller
- they want cool models and fear that release schedules are going to slow down for the same reason as above

I can appreciate a lot of those worries. I know I am lucky in that my local community is growing.

Really switching to 8th wouldn't be a big issue if 8th was ya know, not a bad system.

Again, that is my opinion and I am not knocking anyone who enjoys 8th.

That said, it has too many issues. Cover is pointless, the constant FAQ is a pain and it just does not feel like 40k.

I must disagree. It has far less issues than 7th (even HH.) As someone who was looking into getting into HH (We ended up using the 8th fanrules on here), I much prefer 8th's rules.

WIth Alternate Activation and fixing Cover, 8th becomes a really fun game. Especially in the HH.

You are not the only one who is enjoying game in 8th!

Thanks to those fan made rules, we managed to resurrect it in my area, after being dead from the moment 8th came out, and FW expertly handling HH currently...

How have the 8th ed house rules of HH resurrected your area ? Do you play against 40k armies and thus needed cross compatibility ?

Are there any good "8th edition HH" rules online? Or are they all just house rules created for local scenes?

 godardc wrote:
How have the 8th ed house rules of HH resurrected your area ? Do you play against 40k armies and thus needed cross compatibility ?

We've got a few players around here that use it. The best part is exactly that, we can play against 40k armies.