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Made in us
Ground Crew





I like to take this as evidence that this community can be very positive when positive things actually appear to be happening!
   
Made in us
Missionary On A Mission





Hanford, CA, AKA The Eye of Terror

I really want to see stuff like

"When you take a terminator/gravis/phobos captain all terminator/gravis/phobos gain core"

and all of the various captains being priced accordingly. This would certainly provide an opportunity cost to taking certain units and also be fairly fluffy on top of it all (ie the gravis captain is substantially more expensive than the terminator or phobos captain). Apply this as well to LTs and it MAY justify the ridiculous amount of them. Additionally it seems like this would make the various captains play as they are supposed to, going into battle with the troops they are designated to lead instead of a Phobos Capt popping up next to some aggressors and being like "shoot there!" instead of rolling with his Infiltrators and Reivers.

Also NEVER make Dreadnoughts core. I can imagine the captain saying

"Ancestor, shoot there!" and his response being

"Child I have been shooting heretics for nigh on 3 thousands years I dont need your insubordination!" *misses* "Ah, the dream....yes...twins they were"

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/16 21:43:18


17,000 points (Valhallan, Cadian, and Vostroyan)
15,000 points
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Proud Countess of House Terryn hosting 4 Knights, 2 Dominus Knights, and 5 Armigers
Stormcast Eternals: 7,000 points
"Remember, Orks are weak and cowardly, they are easily beat in close combat and their tusks, while menacing, can easily be pulled out with a sharp tug"

-Imperial Guard Uplifting Primer 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 CEO Kasen wrote:
I like to take this as evidence that this community can be very positive when positive things actually appear to be happening!


I take it as vindication for those who told the people predicting endless marine buffs to hold their horses and wait for more data

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in fr
Hallowed Canoness





 Denegaar wrote:
It's not elegant for this to be in the Core rulebook.

I think it is. That way they can tweak it out in different codex.
yukishiro1 wrote:
Space Wolves in particular will be in the very odd situation of having their basic troops usually hitting more reliably than Ragnar Blackmane.

He doesn't need reroll, he has more than twice the number of attacks that these basic troops do so he'll hit more times than they do anyway .

Thinking about my army, I can't think of any SORORITAS unit beside the characters and the exorcist that would not receive the CORE keyword, so this just means no more Cannoness babysitting Exorcists... and I like that .

"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1 
   
Made in us
Mysterious Techpriest




I like to take this as evidence that this community can be very positive when positive things actually appear to be happening!



Yeah, I think this is definitely one of those things that moves the game in a generally better direction. Now I just hope they continue to look at balance as I think Marines can survive this and still be really strong, but it could hurt some of the Xenos armies. That said, if they took this step, I'm sure they're accounting for that as well and will balance it.


I take it as vindication for those who told the people predicting endless marine buffs to hold their horses and wait for more data


What's that saying about broken clocks?

"When you take a terminator/gravis/phobos captain all terminator/gravis/phobos gain core"

and all of the various captains being priced accordingly. This would certainly provide an opportunity cost to taking certain units and also be fairly fluffy on top of it all (ie the gravis captain is substantially more expensive than the terminator or phobos captain). Apply this as well to LTs and it MAY justify the ridiculous amount of them. Additionally it seems like this would make the various captains play as they are supposed to, going into battle with the troops they are designated to lead instead of a Phobos Capt popping up next to some aggressors and being like "shoot there!" instead of rolling with his Infiltrators and Reivers.


That could really make marine builds more fluffy. Take your Phobos LT to lead a patrol detachment of Phobos marines, and your "Standard" Captain to run your Battalion of "non-phobos" marines, etc.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/16 21:53:05


Edit: I just googled ablutions and apparently it does not including dropping a duece. I should have looked it up early sorry for any confusion. - Baldsmug

Psiensis on the "good old days":
"Kids these days...
... I invented the 6th Ed meta back in 3rd ed.
Wait, what were we talking about again? Did I ever tell you about the time I gave you five bees for a quarter? That's what you'd say in those days, "give me five bees for a quarter", is what you'd say in those days. And you'd go down to the D&D shop, with an onion in your belt, 'cause that was the style of the time. So there I was in the D&D shop..." 
   
Made in gb
Devastating Dark Reaper




Scotland

I'm optimistic about this change, I hate the re-roll auras for the most part anyway so I'm happy with any means of limiting them. However if the Avatar of Khaine and Autarch don't buff Aspect Warriors I'm gonna be pissed!

Space Wolves - Alpha Legion - Biel-Tan - Reikland - Lizardmen of Hexoatl - Slaaneshi Daemons
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Ice_can wrote:


Count yourself luck people arn't dancing on the grave of codex marines as a competitive codex, as I think a lot of people are at that point of fed up. Heck when you have one of the biggest Self proclaimed Primaris Fanboys outright come out and say Marines especially Primaris are OP you know GW went Tooooooooooooooo far.


Highly unlikely they'll be uncompetitive. They're beatable now with above average effort.

I have no idea to whom you reference or why that person is a key figure on primaris.

   
Made in us
Ground Crew





BrianDavion wrote:
 CEO Kasen wrote:
I like to take this as evidence that this community can be very positive when positive things actually appear to be happening!


I take it as vindication for those who told the people predicting endless marine buffs to hold their horses and wait for more data


My skepticism isn't cleared yet - there's a lot of weapon buffs going out and the book still has way too many units - but if this codex somehow actually turns out to be completely reasonable, then my own words would never taste more delicious. I would devour them and my own hat lightly drizzled in balsamic vinaigrette with a side of fine pastas while tears of pure joy from being utterly and horrendously wrong trickle down my cheeks.
   
Made in us
Steady Space Marine Vet Sergeant




San Jose, CA

Insectum7 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Togusa wrote:
Xenomancer wrote in the other thread:

"Well It makes repulsors unplayable...and they are already unplayable."

In what way? I played with mine in a game two days ago at my house and it did just fine. Is this one of those "It's not A+++ OP NUTS" therefore it cannot ever touch a table top, trashist of trash type comments?

Table Hammer is pretty irrelevant for balance discussions though.

That's an interesting take. . .
yeah, cuz a majority of games played are tourney ones, am I getting that right??? something tells me that isnt so

Tycho wrote:
I like to take this as evidence that this community can be very positive when positive things actually appear to be happening!



Yeah, I think this is definitely one of those things that moves the game in a generally better direction. Now I just hope they continue to look at balance as I think Marines can survive this and still be really strong, but it could hurt some of the Xenos armies. That said, if they took this step, I'm sure they're accounting for that as well and will balance it.


I take it as vindication for those who told the people predicting endless marine buffs to hold their horses and wait for more data


What's that saying about broken clocks?

"When you take a terminator/gravis/phobos captain all terminator/gravis/phobos gain core"

and all of the various captains being priced accordingly. This would certainly provide an opportunity cost to taking certain units and also be fairly fluffy on top of it all (ie the gravis captain is substantially more expensive than the terminator or phobos captain). Apply this as well to LTs and it MAY justify the ridiculous amount of them. Additionally it seems like this would make the various captains play as they are supposed to, going into battle with the troops they are designated to lead instead of a Phobos Capt popping up next to some aggressors and being like "shoot there!" instead of rolling with his Infiltrators and Reivers.


That could really make marine builds more fluffy. Take your Phobos LT to lead a patrol detachment of Phobos marines, and your "Standard" Captain to run your Battalion of "non-phobos" marines, etc.




I really like the idea of it and its basically been how I've run my Astartes for a while.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Racerguy180 wrote:
Insectum7 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Togusa wrote:
Xenomancer wrote in the other thread:

"Well It makes repulsors unplayable...and they are already unplayable."

In what way? I played with mine in a game two days ago at my house and it did just fine. Is this one of those "It's not A+++ OP NUTS" therefore it cannot ever touch a table top, trashist of trash type comments?

Table Hammer is pretty irrelevant for balance discussions though.

That's an interesting take. . .
yeah, cuz a majority of games played are tourney ones, am I getting that right??? something tells me that isnt so

You mean the crummy games where the players take one of each unit and purposely make bad moves because they're fluff bunnies, like charging a clearly superior melee unit because? Those are the games you really want to talk about when it comes to balance?

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in us
Missionary On A Mission





Hanford, CA, AKA The Eye of Terror

Racerguy180 wrote:


"When you take a terminator/gravis/phobos captain all terminator/gravis/phobos gain core"

and all of the various captains being priced accordingly. This would certainly provide an opportunity cost to taking certain units and also be fairly fluffy on top of it all (ie the gravis captain is substantially more expensive than the terminator or phobos captain). Apply this as well to LTs and it MAY justify the ridiculous amount of them. Additionally it seems like this would make the various captains play as they are supposed to, going into battle with the troops they are designated to lead instead of a Phobos Capt popping up next to some aggressors and being like "shoot there!" instead of rolling with his Infiltrators and Reivers.


That could really make marine builds more fluffy. Take your Phobos LT to lead a patrol detachment of Phobos marines, and your "Standard" Captain to run your Battalion of "non-phobos" marines, etc.


I really like the idea of it and its basically been how I've run my Astartes for a while.


I was one of those weird girls who ran Codex compliant lists (tacts, assault marines, devastators, etc) back in 5-7th and I got a lot of flak when the Gladius rules came out. Fluffy army compilation is far more satisfying than weird hyper optimized lists with like 4 factions that fulfill bizarre niche places. NO! My boys just marched off the strike cruise and are ready to party, FOR MACRAGGE!!!!!!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/16 22:22:23


17,000 points (Valhallan, Cadian, and Vostroyan)
15,000 points
4,000 points (Order of Our Martyred Lady)
Proud Countess of House Terryn hosting 4 Knights, 2 Dominus Knights, and 5 Armigers
Stormcast Eternals: 7,000 points
"Remember, Orks are weak and cowardly, they are easily beat in close combat and their tusks, while menacing, can easily be pulled out with a sharp tug"

-Imperial Guard Uplifting Primer 
   
Made in fi
Courageous Space Marine Captain






Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

You mean the crummy games where the players take one of each unit and purposely make bad moves because they're fluff bunnies, like charging a clearly superior melee unit because? Those are the games you really want to talk about when it comes to balance?

Yes, because that's how majority of the players play so that is the level which is most important, not the tiny number of hyper competitive tournament players.

Only the insane have strength enough to prosper. Only those who prosper may truly judge what is sane. 
   
Made in us
Ground Crew





Racerguy180 wrote:
Insectum7 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Table Hammer is pretty irrelevant for balance discussions though.

That's an interesting take. . .
yeah, cuz a majority of games played are tourney ones, am I getting that right??? something tells me that isnt so


I don't think that has anything to do with tournaments; That's a raised eyebrow at wording that unintentionally implies that games played on tables are irrelevant to balance discussion, and that true meta knowledge can only be obtained from, I don't know, the floor, or on the back of a giant tortoise, or pushing models around in zero-g.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 CEO Kasen wrote:

I don't think that has anything to do with tournaments; That's a raised eyebrow at wording that unintentionally implies that games played on tables are irrelevant to balance discussion, and that true meta knowledge can only be obtained from, I don't know, the floor, or on the back of a giant tortoise, or pushing models around in zero-g.


If its good enough for Sir Terry, its good enough for a 40k game. Just make sure the tortoise and elephants are well cared for before, during and after.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 CEO Kasen wrote:
I like to take this as evidence that this community can be very positive when positive things actually appear to be happening!


Positive things have been happening all along.

Multimeltas were bad. Firstborn suffered. HBs went unused.

Just a lot of people weren't willing to take other changes in context, because those changes were tied to marines.


   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
 Denegaar wrote:
It's not elegant for this to be in the Core rulebook.

I think it is. That way they can tweak it out in different codex.
yukishiro1 wrote:
Space Wolves in particular will be in the very odd situation of having their basic troops usually hitting more reliably than Ragnar Blackmane.

He doesn't need reroll, he has more than twice the number of attacks that these basic troops do so he'll hit more times than they do anyway .

Thinking about my army, I can't think of any SORORITAS unit beside the characters and the exorcist that would not receive the CORE keyword, so this just means no more Cannoness babysitting Exorcists... and I like that .


Ignoring the fact that the other reason they won't have to babysit is because no one will take them over rets without some kind of buff. lol

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Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 CEO Kasen wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 CEO Kasen wrote:
I like to take this as evidence that this community can be very positive when positive things actually appear to be happening!


I take it as vindication for those who told the people predicting endless marine buffs to hold their horses and wait for more data


My skepticism isn't cleared yet - there's a lot of weapon buffs going out and the book still has way too many units - but if this codex somehow actually turns out to be completely reasonable, then my own words would never taste more delicious. I would devour them and my own hat lightly drizzled in balsamic vinaigrette with a side of fine pastas while tears of pure joy from being utterly and horrendously wrong trickle down my cheeks.


Honestly this is typical for GW though, typically they talk up the buffs first and then discuss the inevitable nerfs and changes. Losing re-roll aura's on your tanks tends to hurt less when you're excited about 2 shot 1d6+2 damage multi-melta's

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Ground Crew





Sterling191 wrote:
 CEO Kasen wrote:
If its good enough for Sir Terry, its good enough for a 40k game. Just make sure the tortoise and elephants are well cared for before, during and after.


"Like hell the Aurora Coriolis doesn't count as dense cover!"

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/16 22:32:29


 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut



Glasgow

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
 Denegaar wrote:
It's not elegant for this to be in the Core rulebook.

I think it is. That way they can tweak it out in different codex.


What do you actually think should appear in the BRB? I'm finding it difficult to work out what those complaining that this doesn't appear actually think would be useful?

Auras, stratagems, etc state explicitly which units they effect. This new piece of information has no effect on that, it simply adds another keyword that can be given as a reduction. Do we need a section in the court ruled explaining that some auras only effect INFANTRY or that some auras only effect CARNIFEXES? If not, then why CORE?
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





BrianDavion wrote:


Honestly this is typical for GW though, typically they talk up the buffs first and then discuss the inevitable nerfs and changes. Losing re-roll aura's on your tanks tends to hurt less when you're excited about 2 shot 1d6+2 damage multi-melta's


Sometimes it's funny to see the salt get mined by GW.

If people really wanted to stick it to GW they'd chill out and stop giving them massive social media impressions.

   
Made in us
Confessor Of Sins




 Crimson wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

You mean the crummy games where the players take one of each unit and purposely make bad moves because they're fluff bunnies, like charging a clearly superior melee unit because? Those are the games you really want to talk about when it comes to balance?

Yes, because that's how majority of the players play so that is the level which is most important, not the tiny number of hyper competitive tournament players.


Not when talking balance. When talking balance garagehammer is utterly irrelevant. Who cares how many wounds assault marines do on average dice if you're playing half drunk in your basement against your best pal at 2 am?

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Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord




Inside Yvraine

I guess Dark Eldar get the last laugh lmaaaaao.

"Welcome to our world, nerds!"
   
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 Daedalus81 wrote:
 CEO Kasen wrote:
I like to take this as evidence that this community can be very positive when positive things actually appear to be happening!


Positive things have been happening all along.

Multimeltas were bad. Firstborn suffered. HBs went unused.

Just a lot of people weren't willing to take other changes in context, because those changes were tied to marines.



Wouldn't that be out of context, because these changes were presented in the context of Marine buffs?

I certainly welcome the 2W Firstborn/CSM, but not responding with total jubilation at the gun upgrade news was more or less understandable. Weapons not being killier was not a problem it is widely perceived that 8th/9th has, so the response wasn't going to universally be positive, and the HB and MM buffs didn't indicate a larger direction for the game that the community thinks it needed to go.

This change with the Core units and buffing, though? It implies the game is aware of, and doing something about, aura wrangling and reroll spam that seems more widely agreed to be a problem; hence, positivity and hope.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/16 22:46:36


 
   
Made in no
Powerful Ushbati





Bergen

I doubt this will matter much to Nids. The warrior buff only works on warriors. Old one Eye will not be abel to have +2 to his hit chance of 3.

GSC will miss BS3+ to hit on their ridgerunners when they get around to it.

I am a dyslectic, so bear with me.

Dyslectics in a text based environment? Dakka is aware of you and sympathises with any troubles you have: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/505863.page

Kronos biovore box fresh sporemines. Denying psykick powers since 2017.

 
   
Made in us
Assassin with Black Lotus Poison





Bristol

 CEO Kasen wrote:
Sterling191 wrote:
 CEO Kasen wrote:
If its good enough for Sir Terry, its good enough for a 40k game. Just make sure the tortoise and elephants are well cared for before, during and after.


"Like hell the Aurora Coriolis doesn't count as dense cover!"


"Aurora Coriolis? At this time of year, at this time of day, in this part of the disc, localised entirely around your deployment zone?"

The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.

Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






 CEO Kasen wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
 CEO Kasen wrote:
I like to take this as evidence that this community can be very positive when positive things actually appear to be happening!


I take it as vindication for those who told the people predicting endless marine buffs to hold their horses and wait for more data


My skepticism isn't cleared yet - there's a lot of weapon buffs going out and the book still has way too many units - but if this codex somehow actually turns out to be completely reasonable, then my own words would never taste more delicious. I would devour them and my own hat lightly drizzled in balsamic vinaigrette with a side of fine pastas while tears of pure joy from being utterly and horrendously wrong trickle down my cheeks.


This comment is very bizarre..
And for some reason I really want a nice salad now..

I have to say this thread has not disappointed one bit..
Xenomancer true to form has frantically claimed marines are now totally nerfed into the ground and the repulsor is unplayable ( has he mentioned he bought 3 and he never got to use them coz they suck?) and ohh its the worse thing ever and marines suck now. Suck I tells you!!!

Others have argued this is unfair because marines have only rheealllly teeehcnicaly dominated for 6 months (or something) so the nerf is unwarrented as clearly there are no problems with marines and people are over-reacting.

Just like before 2.0 the same people were saying how marines still suck because not enough rules. Same people are now saying marines suck and we dont yet know a single startegem, trait, relic or psychic power.. Who wants to bet there will be things that marines to ignore one or all of these limitations or just give rerolls to stuff anyway..

This is not a marine specific rule nerf.. yet: #marinesmosteffected Ohh noo.....

Personally, I dont care. Why would I care about the autarch I never took lol
Any auras or traits I am likely to get will be a buff at this point after so many nerfs.

Interesting what they will do with this rule.
I predict an absolute dumpster fire of a roll out of this and at least 3 rounds of FAQ before things that are core supposed to be core. But curtailing of auras is a good thing and no longer need to have the entire army blobbing up around a dude in a ruin coz reasons. STep in the right direction.

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2020/09/16 22:56:32


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Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
 
   
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ERJAK wrote:
 Crimson wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

You mean the crummy games where the players take one of each unit and purposely make bad moves because they're fluff bunnies, like charging a clearly superior melee unit because? Those are the games you really want to talk about when it comes to balance?

Yes, because that's how majority of the players play so that is the level which is most important, not the tiny number of hyper competitive tournament players.


Not when talking balance. When talking balance garagehammer is utterly irrelevant. Who cares how many wounds assault marines do on average dice if you're playing half drunk in your basement against your best pal at 2 am?


But how do you determine if someone playing at home is playing "garagehammer" or playing with another competitively minded person with competitive lists/tactics?

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
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nfe wrote:
 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
 Denegaar wrote:
It's not elegant for this to be in the Core rulebook.

I think it is. That way they can tweak it out in different codex.


What do you actually think should appear in the BRB?

Oh oups I misread. I mean the same as Denegaar did, that it's better for this not to be in the core rulebook. Sorry about the confusion.

"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor




Tacoma, WA, USA

The Core keyword is used to identify units that form the fighting… well, core, of an army. These are most commonly represented by units of line infantry, though this doesn’t mean it’s exclusive to Troops, nor just Infantry.

In the case of the first two books, Codex: Space Marines and Codex: Necrons many Elite units such as Terminator Squads and Lychguard, as well as Fast Attack units like Bike Squads and Tomb Blades, have the Core keyword. Even some Vehicles will be Core units too, where appropriate.
So given the units GW has decided to tell us, we know they are looking at the "core" units to different types of play experiences and thematic army.

So I expect the SM that at least one unit will be Core to support:
First Born Marines - Tactical Squad and possibly Assault and Devastator Squads
Scout Company & Phobos Marines - Scouts, Infiltrators and Incursors
Primaris X Marines - Intercessors & Assault Intercessors
Gravis Marines - Heavy Intercessors
First Company (like Deathwing and Wolf Guard) - Terminator & Assault Terminator squads, Vangard and Sternguard Veterans
Bike Company (and Ravenwing) - Bike Squads and Outriders

I would not expect speciality squads to make the cut, outside of those central to a theme, like those I listed for First Company, Bike, and Scout Companies. Otherwise, the rule doesn't end up doing much if everybody and the brother is Core.

It would be interesting if they take this as an opportunity to add Auras to speciality characters to support thematic units. Like the Techmarine enhancing vehicles. Still that might just be seen a transferring the problem from one character to others.
   
Made in us
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord




Inside Yvraine

 Niiai wrote:
I doubt this will matter much to Nids. The warrior buff only works on warriors. Old one Eye will not be abel to have +2 to his hit chance of 3.

GSC will miss BS3+ to hit on their ridgerunners when they get around to it.
It won't hurt nids at all. In general most horde armies will be unaffected, because most of them rely on weight of dice rather than quality anyway. Also most of their unit buffs are targeted rather than auras- ie orders, psychic spells, strategems etc.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/16 23:00:42


 
   
 
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