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OUCH!



Nobody is Safe From the Awesome Power of The T’au Empire’s New and Improved Railgun - WarCom

Pretttttty solid upgrade! Glad to see Hammerhead's actually have a main anti-tank gun worth considering now. You probably still want to save a reroll for the wound roll, but it's definitely a lot less swingy compared to before and when it hits, it hurts. If it's priced reasonably I can HH actually showing up, especially since we don't know what Longstrike does now.

I am very interested to see Longstrike combined with this. I am excited to bring a railgun to a game.

Full article:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/12/29/nobody-is-safe-from-the-awesome-power-of-the-tau-empires-new-and-improved-railgun/

Even if the hammerhead gets dropped to bs4+, with the free reroll it gets youve got a base 75% chance to hit. Yeah you gotta pass the wound roll but it seems like a greater than 50% chance itll one shot most tanks and lighter monstrous creatures in a single shot. Only real issue it has is youre really going to need to support it if you have enemy infantry running around

 Grimskul wrote:
Pretttttty solid upgrade! Glad to see Hammerhead's actually have a main anti-tank gun worth considering now. You probably still want to save a reroll for the wound roll, but it's definitely a lot less swingy compared to before and when it hits, it hurts. If it's priced reasonably I can HH actually showing up, especially since we don't know what Longstrike does now.

More worth considering then literally any single other AT weapon in the game. Like nothing is even close. That's the kind of stats they handed out to forgeworld titans.

stratigo wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:
Pretttttty solid upgrade! Glad to see Hammerhead's actually have a main anti-tank gun worth considering now. You probably still want to save a reroll for the wound roll, but it's definitely a lot less swingy compared to before and when it hits, it hurts. If it's priced reasonably I can HH actually showing up, especially since we don't know what Longstrike does now.

More worth considering then literally any single other AT weapon in the game. Like nothing is even close. That's the kind of stats they handed out to forgeworld titans.

welcome to the 9th edition arms race, yes its dumb and we've been complaining about it for a while now...

 Ordana wrote:

stratigo wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:
Pretttttty solid upgrade! Glad to see Hammerhead's actually have a main anti-tank gun worth considering now. You probably still want to save a reroll for the wound roll, but it's definitely a lot less swingy compared to before and when it hits, it hurts. If it's priced reasonably I can HH actually showing up, especially since we don't know what Longstrike does now.

More worth considering then literally any single other AT weapon in the game. Like nothing is even close. That's the kind of stats they handed out to forgeworld titans.

welcome to the 9th edition arms race, yes its dumb and we've been complaining about it for a while now...

I mean, there's an arms race and there's this.

considering that that is BETTER than an AX-1-0's Heavy Rail Cannon...

 carldooley wrote:
considering that that is BETTER than an AX-1-0's Heavy Rail Cannon...

You can't compare pre-9th weapons with 9th edition weapons because HOLYMOTHEROFPOWERCREEP.

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
Even if the hammerhead gets dropped to bs4+, with the free reroll it gets youve got a base 75% chance to hit. Yeah you gotta pass the wound roll but it seems like a greater than 50% chance itll one shot most tanks and lighter monstrous creatures in a single shot. Only real issue it has is youre really going to need to support it if you have enemy infantry running around

I think it would be fun to see how many shots from Railgun can kill fully buffed Mortarion (-1 to hit, -1 dmg, 5++ FnP)? anyone can offer a calculation?

Work backwards.

RG does average 11 damage reduced down to 10.
30 damage would get FNP'd down to 20 damage and get the kill.
So 3 woundings required.
T8, so wounds on 3s, so you need 4.5 hits.

So, worst case of all HHs are BS4 with no way to buff the to hit, re-rolling to hit, you need 8.1 shots. P.S. This is also how many RG shots Tau Sept would need in overwatch currently.

Best case, LS+3HHs, BS2/3 with 5 markerlights giving +1/+2 to hit. re-rolling to hit, gives 4.63 shots. Throw in LS's +1 to wound monsters and a CP re-roll on one of the other wound rolls and you get 4.05 shots.

I had a silly little idea last night. Would anyone else be willing to use a flyer like the Razorshark if you replaced the Quad Ion Turret with the Tetra's High Intensity Markerlight?

 carldooley wrote:
I had a silly little idea last night. Would anyone else be willing to use a flyer like the Razorshark if you replaced the Quad Ion Turret with the Tetra's High Intensity Markerlight?

I doubt it could be priced competitively simply because your paying a lot of points for the body that doesn't really do anything. We tend to want cheap markerlights (because they don't do damage on their own) and aircraft are not cheap.

Yessir! Look at that D! (strat is nice too...)
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/01/13/need-to-vaporise-an-imperial-knight-in-one-shot-the-pulse-blastcannon-has-you-covered/

Essentially the full book has been shared...

https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/s3hafh/more_tau_leaks/

Just starting to dig through the info-dump now... but it seems like a VERY strong book.

I like the distinction between seeker missile and skyrays.
Seeker Missile: 72", Heavy 1, S9, AP -3, Dmg 2d3, one shot per seeker.
Sky rays have a Seeker Missile Rack - 72", Heavy d3+1, S9, AP-3, 2d3 dmg
So a sky ray can now launch 2-4 seeker missiles per turn and are not limited to the number of seeker missiles they have.
This makes them much more useful.
Not sure about the seeker missile markerlight / strat thing (if the +1 to wound or LOS is the markerlight or strat) or the BS used when fireing them.
"There is a Strat that allows you to shoot at things out of LoS with seeker missiles if they have a markerlight token (and you get +1 to Wound for the attack)"

Cant wait till end of month to get full thing after all the years of 9th edition.... Just in time for 10th edition release and the codex to be useless again for years lol


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So new rules on Markerlights are that the vehicle or drone units can start the markerlight action at start of movment phase and then move (path finders can move then start the markerlight action, other units have to start markerlight action at start of movment phase and remain stationary, no idea if that stacks with montka).

So i guess that means the skyray (being a vehicle that has markerlights) can target a unit with a markerlight and then move to cover and fire its Seeker Missile Rack at the target out of LOS, assuming that the markerlight gives the LOS benefit to seeker missiles (either the markerlight or the strat give it this ability so strat can be used instead).

Could be handy to move out of LOS but could mess up the next turn if they have no target in 36" to select for markerlight action.

I read that the markerlight action is completed at the start of the shooting phase, and that's when you roll 3+ to actually hit with the markerlight. So that skyray could not "shoot" markerlight without LOS.

The markerlight rules will certainly need clarification on a lot of details, that only the full codex would be able to provide.
Like is LOS needed the whole time from start of action to the end rolling the action before shooting phase.

Also clarification on units like pathfinders that fall back out of engagment, can they then use the markerlight action (whihc is no longer shoot) to now target the enemy unit that they just fell abck from?
Allowing other units to shoot at the unit.
Clarification on the seeker missile interactions also.
Do farsight get markerlights in the charge phase (as the text would imply)

A lot of clarification needed in the codex, but atleast we know that the markerlight thing has changed a lot.

Leaked markerlight written rule:

Fire Markerlights (Action): One or more Markerlight units from your army can start to perform this action at the start of your movement phase. Aircraft Markerlight units can perform this action. The action is completed at the start of your next shooting phase. If this action is successfully completed, for each model in that unit that is equipped with one or more markerlights, for each markerlight that model is equipped with, select one enemy unit within 36" of that model that would be an eligible target for that model if its unit had been selected to shoot, and roll one D6: on a 3+, that enemy unit gains one Markerlight token.

While a VEHICLE or DRONE unit is performing the Fire Markerlights action, that unit can move without that action failing. If it does, until the end of the turn, models in that unit without the VEHICLE or DRONE keyword that are equipped with any markerlights are treated as not being equipped with any markerlights for the purpose of the Fire Markerlights action.

Leaked pathfinder datasheet rule:

Target Uploaded: This unit can start the Fire Markerlights action at the end of your Movement phase, instead of at the start.

Basic rules for actions which are:

Some rules let a unit perform an action; this represents the units doing all manner of things, ranging from raising a banner, arming or dismantling traps, searching an objective site, hacking into a data terminal and so on.

Each action will specify when a unit can start to perform it, when it is completed, and any other conditions that must be satisfied (for example, some actions can only be attempted by units that are at specific locations on the battlefield). You can declare a unit from your army will start to perform an action provided there are no enemy units within Engagement Range of it (excluding AIRCRAFT) and it did not Advance or Fall Back this turn. AIRCRAFT units and units with the Fortifications Battlefield Role cannot perform actions. A unit can only attempt to perform one action per battle round.

If a unit is destroyed, makes a Normal Move, Advances, Falls Back, attempts to manifest a psychic power, declares a charge, performs a Heroic Intervention or makes any attacks with ranged weapons after it has started to perform an action but before that action is completed, that action is failed. Otherwise, that action is successfully completed. A CHARACTER unit cannot use any aura abilities while it is performing an action (if the action is failed, their aura abilities immediately take effect again).

Simply, you have to be able to see to ML someone. You can't fall back and do an action.

Fun extra leak (read the last sentence don't blah blah blah it):

Recon Sweep – 1 CP, Strategic Ploy

Use this Stratagem in your Shooting phase, when a PATHFINDER TEAM unit from your army successfully completes the Fire Markerlights action (pg XX). Each time you roll to see if an enemy unit gains a Markerlight token as a result of that action completing, add 1 to the roll. That unit can make a Normal Move.

Funnest fact, the leaks plus a certain russian website made copying and pasting this stuff so easy.

The second set of leaks cleared up quite a few areas of confusion. I still want to carefully read the codex for any really well hidden power combos, but we have a good general idea now of where the power is coming from (mainly the amount of stats per points on weapons/bodies/hulls).

As I've read it, it seems very clear so far (though it's still based on rumours). You cannot fallback and do action. The farsight enclaves do not benefit from markerlight in the overwatch, as you cannot modify the overwatch diceroll. The seeker missiles fire now with models ballistic skill (that was mentioned in the leaks).

bedivere wrote:

So new rules on Markerlights are that the vehicle or drone units can start the markerlight action at start of movment phase and then move (path finders can move then start the markerlight action, other units have to start markerlight action at start of movment phase and remain stationary, no idea if that stacks with montka).

With the known wording of Mont'Ka, the answer is yes you can advance and Markerlight. The ability counts a unit as having Remained Stationary until the end of the Shooting phase. Not just for ranged attacks, but for everything in the Movement and Shooting phases.

No, you couldn't. The markerlight action is activated at the start of the movement phase, and since you're doing an action, you could not move (with the exception of drone and vehicle units) or advance. The pathfinder units and darkstrider have ability to activate markerlight action in the end of the movement phase.

Sterling191 wrote:

bedivere wrote:

So new rules on Markerlights are that the vehicle or drone units can start the markerlight action at start of movment phase and then move (path finders can move then start the markerlight action, other units have to start markerlight action at start of movment phase and remain stationary, no idea if that stacks with montka).

With the known wording of Mont'Ka, the answer is yes you can advance and Markerlight. The ability counts a unit as having Remained Stationary until the end of the Shooting phase. Not just for ranged attacks, but for everything in the Movement and Shooting phases.

an action fails if you move, having 'counts as stationary' doesn't change that.
Infact I would go so far as to say this entire 'markerlights are an action' thing exists precisely because of the army having 'counts as stationary' and GW doesn't want that rule (counts as stationary) to interact with markerlights at all.

 Ordana wrote:
an action fails if you move, having 'counts as stationary' doesn't change that.
Infact I would go so far as to say this entire 'markerlights are an action' thing exists precisely because of the army having 'counts as stationary' and GW doesn't want that rule (counts as stationary) to interact with markerlights at all.

Incorrect. You cannot *start* an action if you have moved or advanced (CRB FAQ, pg8, right side, bullet point 8). There is no such stipulation in the rare rules if the order of operations is reversed.

Markerlights going off at the beginning of the phase is the variable. You wouldn't be able to say, RND or Banner because that happens after the point of movement.

I was assuimng Montka but didnt mention it.
also i missed the updaet about seeker missiles using units BS, thats a nice change

RAW, the action fails if you move.

Here's the leak as a reference

Fire Markerlights (Action): One or more Markerlight units from your army can start to perform this action at the start of your movement phase. Aircraft Markerlight units can perform this action. The action is completed at the start of your next shooting phase. If this action is successfully completed, for each model in that unit that is equipped with one or more markerlights, for each markerlight that model is equipped with, select one enemy unit within 36" of that model that would be an eligible target for that model if its unit had been selected to shoot, and roll one D6: on a 3+, that enemy unit gains one Markerlight token.

While a VEHICLE or DRONE unit is performing the Fire Markerlights action, that unit can move without that action failing. If it does, until the end of the turn, models in that unit without the VEHICLE or DRONE keyword that are equipped with any markerlights are treated as not being equipped with any markerlights for the purpose of the Fire Markerlights action.

by default the markerlight action would fail with a move (not clear on montka context, up for debate). but NOT with the tau rules leaked.
Other actions still fail if units move (unless there are other factors at play)

"While a VEHICLE or DRONE unit is performing the Fire Markerlights action, that unit can move without that action failing"
"Pathfinders can move then apply ML"

So the answer is not a simple as if you move it fails, as clearly they CAN move.
My question still is does that apply to the fall back (or even advance), whcih i think would be defined in the codex, and i am suspecting that fall back or advance will fail the markerlight action.
Still it is worth looking at, as path finders may become a good front line unit to fall back out of combat and and laydown markerlights for others to use to shoot, if they can fallback without the action failing.

At the moment all we 'know' (if leaks are correct) is that move is the word of the day and the type of movement is not clear.
Is everyone seems to be assuming that the drones / vehicles may be able move and advance and then do a markerlight action? again that is up for debate, also with montka too.

 Spreelock wrote:
RAW, the action fails if you move.

Which is irrelevant when the unit counts as having Remained Stationary. Rare Rules has an explicit carveout for such rules stating that units are ineligble to start actions if they have Advanced or Fallen back. It has no such stipulation that actions fail. In fact, there is an explicit statement (bullet point 5 in the FAQ), that any other rules or abilities dependent on a unit having Remained Stationary are in play. This includes completing actions.

Mont'ka explicitly counts a unit as having Remained Stationary through the entirety of the Movement and Shooting phases.

I think you're stretching the rules of regular movement into advance or fallback.

This sure would be easier if instead of 'move' they (leaker) said 'normal move' (as GW does in rules). as it would clear up the advance / fallback part.

'move' or 'movement' is split into normal move, advance, fall back.

We will have to wait on codex for that.
again codex may clarify montka too